Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 26, 2008, 07:37:51 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/739301.html
The study found that among males between the ages of 18 and 40 a group considered most likely to commit crimes U.S.-born men are 10 times more likely than immigrants to be imprisoned or jailed.
Post by: Paddy on February 26, 2008, 08:07:48 AM
And "Immigrants are 35 percent of California's adult population, the study notes, but only 17 percent of the state's prison population" is a meaningless statistic. Does the % of the prison population equal the % of each particular 'group' in the general population?
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 26, 2008, 08:18:43 AM
Doh! That's because the law can't find the illegals, they're 'undocumented' dontcha know. "U.S. born males" have social security numbers, employment records, driver's license and even credit files.
And "Immigrants are 35 percent of California's adult population, the study notes, but only 17 percent of the state's prison population" is a meaningless statistic. Does the % of the prison population equal the % of each particular 'group' in the general population?
And "Immigrants are 35 percent of California's adult population, the study notes, but only 17 percent of the state's prison population" is a meaningless statistic. Does the % of the prison population equal the % of each particular 'group' in the general population?
And the fact that when the illegals do get in trouble, they just make a run for the border. The study IIRC, only indicates who are more likely to be "incarcerated" which doesn't take into account the ones that got away. It also examine the severity of the crimes or how many crimes the people in the study were convicted.
Beside the fact that it is not only an illegal immigrant problem, but a national security problem.
Post by: Tecumseh on February 26, 2008, 08:29:20 AM
Beside the fact that it is not only an illegal immigrant problem, but a national security problem.
Almost as dangerous as Iraq in my opinion.
Post by: vaskidmark on February 26, 2008, 11:53:12 AM
Now, regarding:
Beside the fact that it is not only an illegal immigrant problem, but a national security problem.
Almost as dangerous as Iraq in my opinion. I need some guidance. Is it wrong to want to just smack that boy?
I've stayed out of almost every thread where he was involved, and have been mildly amused by some of the riposts aimed at him and his postings. As such, I think I can with honesty say I really do not care what the boy thinks or what his politics/philosophy are/is.
But this makes me want to just smack him up side the head. I know it won't change anything, but I think I'll feel better after I do it.
Is that wrong?
stay safe.
skidmark
Post by: Manedwolf on February 26, 2008, 11:58:29 AM
First off, the "study" is merely an accumulation of numbers, with no analysis of why those numbers might or might not mean anything. But they sure sound good.
Now, regarding:
I need some guidance. Is it wrong to want to just smack that boy?
I've stayed out of almost every thread where he was involved, and have been mildly amused by some of the riposts aimed at him and his postings. As such, I think I can with honesty say I really do not care what the boy thinks or what his politics/philosophy are/is.
But this makes me want to just smack him up side the head. I know it won't change anything, but I think I'll feel better after I do it.
Is that wrong?
stay safe.
skidmark
Now, regarding:
Beside the fact that it is not only an illegal immigrant problem, but a national security problem.
Almost as dangerous as Iraq in my opinion. I need some guidance. Is it wrong to want to just smack that boy?
I've stayed out of almost every thread where he was involved, and have been mildly amused by some of the riposts aimed at him and his postings. As such, I think I can with honesty say I really do not care what the boy thinks or what his politics/philosophy are/is.
But this makes me want to just smack him up side the head. I know it won't change anything, but I think I'll feel better after I do it.
Is that wrong?
stay safe.
skidmark
I'm not sure what's wrong with him or what happened to him. Maybe he drank a bottle of patchouli oil.
Post by: The Rabbi on February 26, 2008, 12:05:12 PM
Post by: Paddy on February 26, 2008, 12:09:12 PM
Quote
It's Bush's fault.
Gotta get it in now because time is running short and soon we won't have Bush to kick around anymore.
Post by: 7MAG on February 26, 2008, 12:17:50 PM
They are illegals, they are trespassing, it is a CRIME for them to be here.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on February 26, 2008, 12:38:09 PM
Quote
study they werejust talking about on fox. in calif immigrants represent 35 % of the population generally. yet less that 17 percent of jail population
Sounds to me like they are lumping LEGAL IMMIGRANTS in with ILLEGAL ALIENS to create this statistic ("calif immigrants" referred to in the OP).
LEGAL IMMIGRANTS are some of the most respectful and law-abiding people in our society and are a boon in every way imaginable. Most of them become US Citizens and are true patriots, having seen the other side of the coin in the armpits they they came from.
ILLEGAL ALIENS start off by breaking laws varying from unlawful entry to tresspass to racketeering and involvement with organized crime to drug smuggling to property theft and vandalism. Then they add to it because they have no respect for the systems we have in place... they falsify identification documents, steal health care and social services benefits.
Post by: seeker_two on February 26, 2008, 12:54:37 PM
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 26, 2008, 01:22:39 PM
Point out the obvious, that illegals really dont commit more crimes or that they really do fill jobs other people won't, provide studies to that effect and the only response is that the study must be rigged. It's gotta be. I mean, we all just know that they are a blight, a crime wave in the making. It's all rigged. It's Bush's fault.
I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Illegal immigrants don't take jobs Americans (or legal immigrants) won't do, they just take those jobs for less pay than a legal worker is willing to do the work for. All that does is drive down the overall pay scale, and siphon money out of the economy and out of the social security system because so many workers are being paid "under the table."Around here it's a full-blown epidemic. I know of streets where you can see them lined up in the morning, and contractors looking for cheap help just cruise the street picking up the number of warm bodies they need for that day. It's worse than the hookers and the Johns on the same streets at night.
Post by: nico on February 26, 2008, 01:27:58 PM
Quote
study they werejust talking about on fox. in calif immigrants represent 35 % of the population generally. yet less that 17 percent of jail population
Sounds to me like they are lumping LEGAL IMMIGRANTS in with ILLEGAL ALIENS to create this statistic ("calif immigrants" referred to in the OP).
That's the first thing I noticed too. I've seen quite a few instances where people in the media conveniently frame a discussion in terms of "immigrants" instead of "illegal immigrants."
Post by: The Rabbi on February 26, 2008, 01:49:25 PM
Point out the obvious, that illegals really dont commit more crimes or that they really do fill jobs other people won't, provide studies to that effect and the only response is that the study must be rigged. It's gotta be. I mean, we all just know that they are a blight, a crime wave in the making. It's all rigged. It's Bush's fault.
I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Illegal immigrants don't take jobs Americans (or legal immigrants) won't do, they just take those jobs for less pay than a legal worker is willing to do the work for. All that does is drive down the overall pay scale, and siphon money out of the economy and out of the social security system because so many workers are being paid "under the table."Around here it's a full-blown epidemic. I know of streets where you can see them lined up in the morning, and contractors looking for cheap help just cruise the street picking up the number of warm bodies they need for that day. It's worse than the hookers and the Johns on the same streets at night.
Post by: wooderson on February 26, 2008, 01:52:02 PM
Quote
I've seen quite a few instances where people in the media conveniently frame a discussion in terms of "immigrants" instead of "illegal immigrants."
Because there's no difference between the two groups?
Post by: keeleon on February 26, 2008, 01:59:09 PM
Quote
If they are illegal aliens, they already HAVE committed a crime......
Which means that, again if they are talking about illegal immigrants, then %35 of our population at least is criminals, and should be imprisoned. Of course since this is probably talking about "immigrants", then it is just pointless numbers. May as well talk about how many left handed people are in prison.
Quote
Actually it's supply and demand. So employers can't/won't pay higher wages. I dont see why they should. And I dont see any problem with people offering to do a full day's work in exchange for getting paid. Do you?
I understand the need and desire for a cheaper labor force, but we also need to think about ourselves. I would have no problem with them being here if we would just change our anchor baby laws, and not hand out any free services to them. No free education, no health care. They can work here all they want, and hell they can send their money home to mexico, but if they want education and health care, they need to use that money here. Of course, I also have no problem with making it easier to become a citizen, but why should you get all the benefits without doing the work? That is socialism.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 26, 2008, 05:21:33 PM
Point out the obvious, that illegals really dont commit more crimes or that they really do fill jobs other people won't, provide studies to that effect and the only response is that the study must be rigged. It's gotta be. I mean, we all just know that they are a blight, a crime wave in the making. It's all rigged. It's Bush's fault.
I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. Illegal immigrants don't take jobs Americans (or legal immigrants) won't do, they just take those jobs for less pay than a legal worker is willing to do the work for. All that does is drive down the overall pay scale, and siphon money out of the economy and out of the social security system because so many workers are being paid "under the table."Around here it's a full-blown epidemic. I know of streets where you can see them lined up in the morning, and contractors looking for cheap help just cruise the street picking up the number of warm bodies they need for that day. It's worse than the hookers and the Johns on the same streets at night.
So have you actually joined La Raza or Aztlan, yet?
Post by: De Selby on February 26, 2008, 05:28:04 PM
So have you actually joined La Raza or Aztlan, yet?
Note that La Raza is an American organization. Born and bred in America. The racial ideology that comes with it is not only American, it is uniquely so-there never was a "bronze nation" movement in Mexico.
That's the irony of the illegal immigrant boogeyman-inevitably the groups people name to scare others in this debate are AMERICAN, and magically the illegals are responsible because why?
They both have hispanic surnames, or what?
Post by: Hawkmoon on February 26, 2008, 07:12:24 PM
Actually it's supply and demand. So employers can't/won't pay higher wages. I dont see why they should. And I dont see any problem with people offering to do a full day's work in exchange for getting paid. Do you?
Yes, Rabbi, I do see a problem. When the people offering to do the work are illegal, which means they should not be here and have no right to offer to do the work, and that takes work away from people who ARE here legally and who would like to do the work ... yes, I'd say I do see a problem with that. I very much see a problem with that.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 26, 2008, 08:29:56 PM
So have you actually joined La Raza or Aztlan, yet?
Fixed!
Post by: BridgeWalker on February 26, 2008, 08:47:14 PM
Actually it's supply and demand. So employers can't/won't pay higher wages. I dont see why they should. And I dont see any problem with people offering to do a full day's work in exchange for getting paid. Do you?
Yes. They aren't working legally, so they aren't paying social security or medicaid or medicare. Any who are making enough to pay, aren't paying income taxes. I strongly suspect that they are not scrupulously careful about reporting all their undocumented income, which means they are receiving disproportionately higher amounts of welfare benefits like food stamps and health care.
Yes, I have a problem with the fact that an illegal immigrant can net more money for equal work than someone who is working legally, making it possible for them to work for less, making it less possible for legal workers to pay the rent with what is left of the their paychecks after government deductions.
I'm in favor of liberal immigration standards. I'm not in favor of rewarding people for breaking the law.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 26, 2008, 08:55:21 PM
http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml
But, immigrants aren't flocking to the United States to mooch off the government. According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don't have Social Security numbers to file taxes.
One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers. No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows.
What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers that the Social Security administration stashes in the earnings suspense file added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year.
Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families most of whom are illegal are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume.
The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes. Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation's hospitals, schools and welfare programs consuming services that they don't pay for.
Post by: BridgeWalker on February 26, 2008, 09:00:47 PM
Post by: De Selby on February 26, 2008, 09:04:13 PM
If you really think that guys getting picked up off the street for a couple hours work are getting paid any way but cash, you are seriously deluding yourself.
Most of them aren't being picked up for a couple hours work-they have real jobs.
The only real sensible argument I see is wage pressure-yes, more labor means lower prices for employers, which means lower wages on average for American workers.
The question then, is: Do workers have a right to call on the government to drive up their wages by restricting entry to the labor market?
The rest of the debate seems to go nowhere and rely on no substantial argument or fact.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 26, 2008, 09:09:13 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 26, 2008, 09:11:15 PM
Post by: mfree on February 27, 2008, 03:18:33 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on February 27, 2008, 07:23:54 AM
Actually it's supply and demand. So employers can't/won't pay higher wages. I dont see why they should. And I dont see any problem with people offering to do a full day's work in exchange for getting paid. Do you?
Yes, Rabbi, I do see a problem. When the people offering to do the work are illegal, which means they should not be here and have no right to offer to do the work, and that takes work away from people who ARE here legally and who would like to do the work ... yes, I'd say I do see a problem with that. I very much see a problem with that.
And with unemployment under 5% your argument is pretty well worthless.
Post by: keeleon on February 27, 2008, 11:46:26 AM
So if the numbers say that 8 million out of the 12 that are here pay their taxes and follow the law (aside from the whole "being here ilegally" thing), then that still means that there are 4 mllion people that shouldn't be here, that aren't being useful.
One of the reasons people start throwing "racist" around in this debate is because the mexicans are a VAST majority of the illegal population. Everything I say pertains to ilegal canadians, jamaicans and pakistanians. So one of the problems with that is when the mexicans come here, they don't do it to be american, they do it to be mexican and make money. They are a very rich culture that believes strongly in family, relationships and history. However they don't believe much in education and assimilation. You know what, that's fine, but this is America, and when you want to move here, you become American and need to accept the responsibilities that come with it, or you don't get the benefits. Are you allowed to join the military and recieve educational grants, but not go to boot camp or combat because our culture is against it?
I have no problem with Americans of a latino heritage, in fact one of my best freinds came here LEGALLY from mexico as a boy. I don't even have a problem with mexicans doing jobs others don't want to do for that wage. That's what's called capitalism, and it's what makes our country great. I have a problem with them coming here and turning my town into another "Little Mexico", putting all of the signs in spanish, and flying the Mexican flag over the American one.
If the reason for them wanting to come here is because our country is so much better off than theirs, why are they trying to turn it into Mexico? Don't they realize that it IS their culture that is the cause of alot of their strife they are trying to escape?
Post by: Stetson on February 27, 2008, 12:36:00 PM
She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, "They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...What Happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?" That's a good question - it deserves an answer.
Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America ?
The answers may surprise you!
In California , if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico ,
it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.
In Colorado , 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids - would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico . That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
&nb sp; Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent
drop-out/flunk-out rate because of thousands of illegal alien students
speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado .
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
In Florida , 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State
back to America , the rule of law, and English.
In Chicago , Il linois , 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals,
schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home' --
If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 Billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.
No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million i llegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.
We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.
In cities like L.A. , 20,000 members of the ' 18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!
Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded
highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!
America 's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to th e aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.
At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California , Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act.
Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases
rampant in our country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse g ases.
Over one million of Mexico 's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville , Texas to San Diego , California in what the New York Times called, "colonias" or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation.
The New York Times reported them to be America 's new " Third World " inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas and Arizona ; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico .
We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own
countries and/or make a better life in Mexico . We already invite a million people into our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation. It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilizatio n and our way of life.
Interesting Statistics. Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should
vacate America , and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:
1. $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance
programs such as food stamps , WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal
aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01 .html
5. $17 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars PER DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal
aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 billion dollars are spent each year on ill egal aliens for
welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 ill egal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine,
and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border.
http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation <http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation>
13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex
crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States !"
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html>
The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!!
Post by: The Rabbi on February 27, 2008, 12:54:04 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 12:59:32 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 01:22:45 PM
http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/114201/view?viewtype=best&skip=20
i'm gonna do the easy one first number 14
". The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex
crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States !"
and the reallity
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52
now lets see what new sturmfront drivel will surface anyone here old enough to understand the origins of the term yellow journalism?
Post by: keeleon on February 27, 2008, 01:26:18 PM
Also the problem with alot of these "facts" is that illegal immigrants and their community don't usually even report crime, because they know they are already doing something illegal. I certainly don't endorse public beheadings for illegally entering the country, but a simple "friendly push" back home would suffice. Then when they come back, public beheadings. Why should they not be more responsible for their actions than a burglar breaking into your house? You don't want him there, even if he did break in to clean your dishes, because you didn't want to do them. It's YOUR house, therefore unless you INVITED him, or he asked permission and got it, he is still BREAKING AND ENTERING.
Post by: Paddy on February 27, 2008, 01:28:36 PM
Quote
and the reallity
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52
Th violent crime rate appears to remain high. And I don't see any stats on who committed the crimes. So I'm not sure what 'reality' you're referring to.
Post by: Racehorse on February 27, 2008, 01:32:20 PM
Quote
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
Unemployment can't get any lower than 4-5% without hurting the economy. People change jobs! People get canned because they're morons. Zero percent unemployment is both undesirable and impossible.
I think we either need to enforce the laws we have or change them to make sense. I'd prefer that we do both. But some of the arguments people make on both sides just make me tired.
Post by: Racehorse on February 27, 2008, 01:34:07 PM
I think my favorite for dumbest argument against illegal immigration is this:
Unemployment can't get any lower than 4-5% without hurting the economy. People change jobs! People get canned because they're morons. Zero percent unemployment is both undesirable and impossible.
I think we either need to enforce the laws we have or change them to make sense. I'd prefer that we do both. But some of the arguments people make on both sides just make me tired.
Quote
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
Unemployment can't get any lower than 4-5% without hurting the economy. People change jobs! People get canned because they're morons. Zero percent unemployment is both undesirable and impossible.
I think we either need to enforce the laws we have or change them to make sense. I'd prefer that we do both. But some of the arguments people make on both sides just make me tired.
crap, stupidity strikes again.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 01:34:31 PM
Post by: keeleon on February 27, 2008, 01:35:56 PM
Quote
and the reallity
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52
now lets see what new sturmfront drivel will surface anyone here old enough to understand the origins of the term yellow journalism?
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52
now lets see what new sturmfront drivel will surface anyone here old enough to understand the origins of the term yellow journalism?
What does any of that have to do with how many sex crimes are committed by illegals, or the price of tea in china?
Quote
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
I will agree that that is a dumb arguement, as there are nearly that many unemployed simply because they are crazy, handicapped or just unable to work, and I don't see any of them picking strawberries or lettuce.
Quote
some genius is claiming a million sex crimes by illegals alone. that would seem to be a lil odd since that would seem to be a total greatly in excess of the total sex crimes for all folks. must be that new riech math. unless of course you are considering everytime a latino has sex with a white woman a crime. then its probably a lot higher.they make me laugh with the nonsense sometimes. heres another way to approach that stat. 20 million illegals 1 million sex crimes. that would make a very high number of em sex criminals. especially if you factor out the young kids. the number only holds up for the delusional or the defective.
I can see what your point is, but that only lists forcible rape, which is by far the least common type of "sex crime". I'm not going to go into details but I'm sure you can think of a few where noone even had to be touched.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
"california as the world" model thankfully that is not the case. is the land of granola f'dup? yes . blaming it all on immigration is easy... but lazy and less than truthful
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 01:40:09 PM
Post by: keeleon on February 27, 2008, 01:44:59 PM
Quote
and then there is the
"california as the world" model thankfully that is not the case. is the land of granola f'dup? yes . blaming it all on immigration is easy... but lazy and less than truthful
"california as the world" model thankfully that is not the case. is the land of granola f'dup? yes . blaming it all on immigration is easy... but lazy and less than truthful
It sounds to me like you would agree that California has problems., I will also agree that it has several of them, but considering immigration(illegal) is a BIG one, maybe we could like.... you know.... do something about it? It is not our only one, but I am certain that doing something about one can impact the others. My school district is going crazy because we are going to have to fire about 200 teachers because of the budget cuts. How come 200 people have to be fired when we have money to give to 4 million (remember 8 out of the 12 million are "honest") illegal immigrants AND to hand out 150 billion worth of economic stimulation?
Post by: Stetson on February 27, 2008, 02:05:30 PM
Sex crimes are more than forcible rape, but hey, ignoring the obvious is good for some. We can play stats all day, your sources vs mine, your uncounted instances vs mine. No mention of the Congress link, or the others, just one source? And I'm biased?
And Reich math? Gotta love the wording there.
I really don't care why they are here, they are criminals just by being here illegally. I have worked for a hospital that could no longer afford to stay open due to illegals not paying for services, so I lost my job. Add that to your unemployment rate....oh, and all the others that could no longer work there...even the illegals(suspected, but we weren't HR) that worked in the laundry room(s).
Post by: Paddy on February 27, 2008, 02:28:05 PM
And cassandrasdaddy, you can stop gratuitously slamming California, since you obviously know nothing about it. Doubtful you've even been here.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 02:30:45 PM
sorry you like that great blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it? please you want me to knock off some of the other facts too?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 02:36:45 PM
hospital closings from a pros view
Closing Time
California leads nation in hospital closures
By John Leighty
Illustration: Photodisc
May 17, 1999
In the current era of intense competition and managed care, hospitals are finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. While some hospitals have reduced staff and services to cut costs, others have been forced to close.
The California Healthcare Association reports an average of three closings a year over the past decade, most of them involving smaller, low-capacity hospitals squeezed by intense competition under managed care. Dozens of other hospitals have merged or changed ownership, moves that often result in some department closings as services are consolidated.
A look at the numbers
California typically leads the nation in the number of hospital closings. A federal survey issued this year by the Office of the Inspector General reported 38 closures in 1997 out of 4,805 general acute care hospitals nationwide; California led with six, one of which was later relicensed. There are currently 478 licensed acute care hospitals in California, according to the California Department of Health Services (DHS).
"Hospitals closed because of the interrelated factors of declining occupancy, lagging revenues, and rising costs," according to the inspector generals report.
More recent figures are hard to calculate because the state doesnt keep exact figures on closings. A survey by the Healthcare Association of Southern California showed 10 hospital closures in 1998 in a six-county region, compared with five in 1997 and seven in 1996.
Experts say theres one big factor that is bound to accelerate the closure ratethe law requiring seismic retrofitting of all hospitals by 2008. "We think there will be a dramatic closure of hospitals over the next 10 years because of this mandate, which will cost a projected $20 billion," said Nathan Nayman, regional vice president of the Hospital Council of Northern and Central California.
and i've been to cailfornia a few time sister lived in san diego. northern california i really liked
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 02:47:02 PM
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf
Post by: Paddy on February 27, 2008, 02:47:59 PM
"Nurses should be especially concerned about the declining access to care caused by closures in disenfranchised areas, said Frank Moss, RN, administrative director of the emergency department at the UCLA Medical Center.
"In many urban areas, hospitals are in financial difficulty because of the high rate of unreimbursed indigent care, he said.
"The situation is if unreimbursed care continues, there will be hospitals closing their emergency departments or closing the facilities altogether,"
which is exactly what I said. And here's a report from an expert, a physician:
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
And thanks for your (probably few) tourist dollars, but a visit to your sister in San Diego doesn't impress me as any kind of expertise on our state.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 02:52:40 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 27, 2008, 03:05:00 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/nyregion/19cosman.html
She was also on the board of the Wake Up America Foundation, which opposes illegal immigration, and was frequently heard discussing the issue on talk radio.
and she made her living buying and selling medical practices
Post by: The Rabbi on February 27, 2008, 03:28:43 PM
Do you even read what you post? From the same article:
"Nurses should be especially concerned about the declining access to care caused by closures in disenfranchised areas, said Frank Moss, RN, administrative director of the emergency department at the UCLA Medical Center.
"In many urban areas, hospitals are in financial difficulty because of the high rate of unreimbursed indigent care, he said.
"The situation is if unreimbursed care continues, there will be hospitals closing their emergency departments or closing the facilities altogether,"
which is exactly what I said. And here's a report from an expert, a physician:
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
And thanks for your (probably few) tourist dollars, but a visit to your sister in San Diego doesn't impress me as any kind of expertise on our state.
What does a high rate of unreimbursed indigent care have to do with illegals? Are only illegals indigents?"Nurses should be especially concerned about the declining access to care caused by closures in disenfranchised areas, said Frank Moss, RN, administrative director of the emergency department at the UCLA Medical Center.
"In many urban areas, hospitals are in financial difficulty because of the high rate of unreimbursed indigent care, he said.
"The situation is if unreimbursed care continues, there will be hospitals closing their emergency departments or closing the facilities altogether,"
which is exactly what I said. And here's a report from an expert, a physician:
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
And thanks for your (probably few) tourist dollars, but a visit to your sister in San Diego doesn't impress me as any kind of expertise on our state.
In fact since most illegals tend to be younger and healthier, they use healthcare less than their socio-economic peers in large cities.
Post by: Paddy on February 28, 2008, 06:44:14 AM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275
Caring for illegals is siphoning money from other services and forcing clinics, trauma centers and emergency rooms to close
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150750,00.html
Texas hospitals spent $393 million treating illegal aliens in 2002 alone and increasing yearly with $225 million to be paid by taxpayers.
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/bush-medical-plans.html
The problem is particularly pronounced in communities near the southwest border, where there are high populations of illegal aliens. In some hospitals, as much as two-thirds of total operating costs are for uncompensated care for illegal aliens.
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/bush-medical-emergency-rooms.html
Hospitals feeling strain from illegal immigrants
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE6DB133CF936A1575BC0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
Flood of illegal immigrants threatens to drown hospitals
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/980.html
Bush Medicare bill provides $1 billion in federal funds for illegal alien healthcare
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=908334D0-E4FF-4285-8F7E-5D36672B0183
emergency room care for illegal immigrants has risen from $30,000 to more than $350,000 in only four years. The state prison system spent $77 million last year detaining more than 4,000 illegal immigrants.
http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=51473
Illegal aliens drive another hospital to closure
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000060.html
Dr. Gene Rogers and the illegal alien hospital crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IDbdf5DxIE
Congressman: Parasitic aliens burden U.S. hospitals
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/7/15/165415.shtml
Why are taxpayers providing hospital care for illegal aliens?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200208/ai_n9125198
The True Cost of Illegal Mexicans
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/political/configpol.pl?noframes;read=12433
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 28, 2008, 08:29:45 AM
Post by: Stetson on February 28, 2008, 08:45:59 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on February 28, 2008, 03:19:16 PM
I also hear about big trends of doctor opening their own surgical clinics where they have more control over how things are run and don't have to have an emergency room. Hospitals aren't the one stop shop anymore. I know some hospitals near me have bad reputations for staph infections and stuff.
Post by: Glock Glockler on February 29, 2008, 04:31:29 AM
Do immigrants have a right to call on govt. to provide services to them at my expense?
Post by: The Rabbi on February 29, 2008, 04:48:06 AM
The question then, is: Do workers have a right to call on the government to drive up their wages by restricting entry to the labor market?
Do immigrants have a right to call on govt. to provide services to them at my expense?
Yes, in both cases. It's called the First Amendment.
Do immigrants have a right to call on govt. to provide services to them at my expense?
Post by: Glock Glockler on February 29, 2008, 05:30:12 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on February 29, 2008, 05:45:00 AM
I think you miss the point: if we're going to have to pay the bill on govt. doles we have every right to demand the govt. regulate who comes into the country.
You miss the point.Anyone can ask for anything. Doesn't mean they're going to get it though.
Post by: richyoung on February 29, 2008, 11:47:20 AM
The only real sensible argument I see is wage pressure-yes, more labor means lower prices for employers, which means lower wages on average for American workers.
The question then, is: Do workers have a right to call on the government to drive up their wages by restricting entry to the labor market?
When that competition is coming frrom foreigners, either illegal or H1B visa type, then HELL YES we have the right to call on the governemnt to knock it off....
Post by: richyoung on February 29, 2008, 11:55:51 AM
you really gonna try to make the sex crimes stat fly? and texas unemployment it under 5%
sorry you like that great blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it? please you want me to knock off some of the other facts too?
sorry you like that great blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it? please you want me to knock off some of the other facts too?
Why should we suffer ONE sex crime by an illegal?
Post by: The Rabbi on February 29, 2008, 12:55:05 PM
you really gonna try to make the sex crimes stat fly? and texas unemployment it under 5%
sorry you like that great blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it? please you want me to knock off some of the other facts too?
sorry you like that great blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it? please you want me to knock off some of the other facts too?
Why should we suffer ONE sex crime by an illegal?
Post by: Jamisjockey on February 29, 2008, 12:57:25 PM
In fact since most illegals tend to be younger and healthier, they use healthcare less than their socio-economic peers in large cities.
What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
Got some facts to back that tidbit up?
I'll smack down some anecdotal evidence....last two times I was in an ER, 90% of the other ER traffic was Hispanic and spoke poor to no english.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 29, 2008, 01:06:05 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 04, 2008, 06:55:49 PM
more reality
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 04, 2008, 06:58:39 PM
QUEMADO, Texas Charles "Dob" Cunningham patrolled the rugged shoreline of the Rio Grande here for more than 30 years as a U.S. Border Patrol agent. Now retired, he operates an 800-acre cattle ranch along two miles of the river that has been in his family for more than a half century.
Illegal aliens and drug smugglers moving across his property have cut down his fences, created well-worn paths over his sprawling pastures, stolen ranch equipment and slaughtered and rustled his cattle. A pile of inner tubes used by those crossing the river sits near the corner of one his storage buildings, each shot "through and though" by the 74-year-old retired agent "so they won't be used again."
Mr. Cunningham, who served as port director in nearby Eagle Pass and Del Rio during his government career, often tracks down the intruders himself, with help from his aptly-named dog "Little Runt," whom he described as "quite successful in finding people hiding in the brush."
One might assume that he would embrace a $1.2 billion government plan to build 370 miles of fence on the U.S.-Mexico border, including 65 miles stretching from the neighboring towns of Eagle Pass to the south and Del Rio on the north that would put a 15-foot high metal barrier along the river on his property.
One might, but one would be wrong.
"We don't need a fence here," Mr. Cunningham said, showing a wide smile under his dusty cowboy hat. "It might make some folks in Washington happy, but it would do little more here than to cut off our access to the river, to water not just for our cattle but for the abundance of migrating wildlife that can be found all along this river.
"I'm against this fence and I will fight it tooth and nail," he said. "And while a country has a right to secure its borders and fences do work in some places where there is nothing but sand and a straight line of sight, they won't work here. The politicians in Washington ought to know that."
Instead of building a fence along the river in this remote and rugged area of south Texas, Mr. Cunningham thinks the government ought to be putting more "boots on the ground," demanding aggressive patrols and making better use of technology, including sensors and security cameras.
Mr. Cunningham, who has lived on this stretch of the border all his life, said there is "ample evidence" that increasing the number of law-enforcement personnel on the border deters illegal entry and does so more effectively than a fence. After the recent addition of 280 new Border Patrol agents in the Del Rio-Eagle Pass area, he said the number of apprehensions of illegal aliens dropped by about 30 percent.
Mr. Cunningham, who retired in 1990, said the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Border Patrol, has set out to beef up the agency to increase its size from 12,000 to 18,000 by the end of this year, but that it should consider hiring more agents "instead of spending a billion dollars on a fence that just won't work.
"The border is not a nice place and you often have to deal with very mean people," he said. "But the idea of this fence has put fear into all of us. We are becoming more afraid of our government than we are of the dope dealers who come through here."
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Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 04, 2008, 07:03:57 PM
U.S. unable to judge 'fence'
By Jerry Seper
February 28, 2008
The Department of Homeland Security spent $20 million on a "virtual fence" to better secure 28 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona but has no way to measure its effectiveness and never consulted with the field agents who will use the system before it was installed, two House subcommittees learned yesterday.
During a hearing at which some members angrily challenged department officials to say how much it will cost to secure the entire border and when that effort will be completed, U.S. Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar acknowledged the agency does not "have the means" to measure how many people are crossing illegally into the United States under the new system at the project site, south of Tucson.
The virtual fence, known as "Project 28," uses high-tech sensors, cameras and other technology along a 28-mile stretch of the border near Sasabe, Ariz. It has been highly touted by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.
Chief Aguilar also confirmed at a joint hearing of the House Homeland Security subcommittee on border, maritime and global counterterrorism and the subcommittee on management, investigations and oversight that the $20.6 million fixed-price contract given to Boeing Co. in September did not allow discussions with the field agents on how the system would best fit their needs a "problem" he said that needs to be fixed.
He said future projects in Yuma, Ariz., and El Paso, Texas, will include increased input from Border Patrol personnel. They are expected to be completed by the end of 2011.
His admissions came after Richard Stana, director of homeland security and justice issues at the GovernmentAccountability Office, said that after visiting the site on three occasions, GAO investigators did not know what criteria the department used to accept the project and concluded that field agents were not consulted.
He said not all of the Border Patrol agents in the Tucson sector, all part of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), have been trained on Project 28, although the system is expected to be replaced.
Mr. Stana also said a task order for the project mandated that the system be able to detect 95 percent of people crossing the border illegally, which had not been met. He said the project did not meet expectations and was not "the ultimate system" that had been envisioned.
He also said Homeland Security's goal of building 370 miles of pedestrian fences and 300 miles of vehicle barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border by the end of this year as part of the multibillion-dollar Secure Border Initiative (SBI) may be more challenging and costly than planned.
"Meeting deadlines has been difficult because of various factors including difficulties in acquiring rights to border lands," he said.
"Moreover, CBP officials are unable to estimate the total cost of pedestrian and vehicle fencing because they do not yet know the type of terrain where the fencing is to be constructed, the materials to be used and the cost to acquire the land."
Gregory Giddens, executive director of SBI, said modifications were under way and the department hoped to alleviate shortfalls in Project 28 this year. He said the agency collected $2.2 million from Boeing for project delays.
But Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr., New Jersey Democrat, described the delays as "unacceptable" and asked why the department did not know ahead of time that most of the property on which it plans to build a fence is privately owned.
"We are 98 yards from the goal line, which is where we started 5 1/2 years ago," said Mr. Pascrell, demanding that Homeland Security say how much it was going to cost taxpayers to secure the nation's borders. None of the three department officials at the hearing had an answer.
"After 5 1/2 years, someone should be able to answer the question without a bunch of malarkey," he said.
Rep. Mark Souder, Indiana Republican, said it was Mr. Chertoff who made Project 28 "a big deal" but the committee "can't get any figures now on how much the border fence is going to cost and when it will be done."
SBI is a multiyear, multibillion-dollar program aimed at securing the nation's borders and reducing illegal immigration.
It includes programs for a comprehensive border-protection system through a mix of pedestrian fences and vehicle barriers, along with radars, sensors, cameras and satellite phones.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 02:48:18 AM
In fact since most illegals tend to be younger and healthier, they use healthcare less than their socio-economic peers in large cities.
What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
Got some facts to back that tidbit up?
I'll smack down some anecdotal evidence....last two times I was in an ER, 90% of the other ER traffic was Hispanic and spoke poor to no english.
I'm smoking the same stuff Cato Institute is smoking, and that's the result of their research.
I'll smack back and say the Hispanics I see are all young. I never see an old Hispanic. Ergo they must all be young.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 05, 2008, 02:57:16 AM
What I do believe is that Illegal aliens, regardless of thier home country, are breaking US law by entering this country. To top it off, then they ask for services paid for by tax payers. They send money to thier home countries. They break additional laws. They ruin neighborhoods by stuffing 20 adults into one townhouse.
They commit identity fraud to work "legally". They stand around 7-elevens to get picked up and work under the table.
Many work hard and don't bother anyone. But they violated the laws and the soverignety of this country the minute they crossed the border illegally or overstayed thier visa.
By tolerating or forgiving this transgression, we as a country are saying we're okay with lawlessness. Our lawmakers want to forgive them to either buy votes or schmooz big business.
The entire situation is a travesty. Instead of building better economic ties with the countries that send us the most illegal immigrants, we invade and threaten countries on the other side of the world, to make them a safe place for big business to do business.
Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 04:00:20 AM
Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
That's actually the most believable part of the whole post.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 05, 2008, 04:18:53 AM
Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
That's actually the most believable part of the whole post.
Because
Quote
Many work hard and don't bother anyone. But they violated the laws and the soverignety of this country the minute they crossed the border illegally or overstayed thier visa.
isn't enough, right? Because the LAWS AND SOVERIGNITY of our country mean jack *expletive deleted*it to you! So anyone who thinks that illegal immigration should be stopped is a raciist. Tell Al Sharpton I said "Hi" next time you sit in his lap.I should have known better than to even try.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 05, 2008, 04:27:20 AM
The doctors cannot ask and they cannot refuse treatment. The finance people, when you exit the ER, can and do ask how you plan to pay. They can also ask questions to determine your ability to pay, one of those is asking for residency and immigrations status.
And then they lie, and vanish back into the aether, just like they do when they cause a vehicle accident. And then come with a different ID next time they need treatment. And the hospital gets stiffed. How do you chase someone for a bill when they don't exist, because they're here illegally? Answer: You can't. And the hospital has to eat the cost of treatment, materials and resources.
Some hospitals are on the verge of shutting down due to this.
Jamis, as regards Rabbi's obviously-for-a-reason stance on this issue, that can be addressed by Cicero's question. "Cui bono?"
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 04:51:32 AM
Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
That's actually the most believable part of the whole post.
Because
Quote
Many work hard and don't bother anyone. But they violated the laws and the soverignety of this country the minute they crossed the border illegally or overstayed thier visa.
isn't enough, right? Because the LAWS AND SOVERIGNITY of our country mean jack *expletive deleted*it to you! So anyone who thinks that illegal immigration should be stopped is a raciist. Tell Al Sharpton I said "Hi" next time you sit in his lap.I should have known better than to even try.
So you'd support a legal change like this, right?
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 05, 2008, 05:23:48 AM
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
Post by: Manedwolf on March 05, 2008, 05:27:10 AM
"Cui Bono"??
"Who Profits?" Marcus Tulius Cicero's way of saying "Follow the money" when determining who was most likely to be responsible for corruption...who profited from it?
In other words, who would be most defensive of flagrant lawbreakers in the form of illegal aliens? Who would keep offering excuses and falsehoods about lower crime, and the "need" for those workers?
Someone who personally profits from such? Whose business ventures depend on illegals? Who would be ruined if the law was actually enforced?
Makes you wonder, doesn't it.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 05:40:36 AM
Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants? Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
Do you honestly not understand the concept of changing immigration laws?And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem? Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 05, 2008, 07:21:38 AM
Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants? Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
Do you honestly not understand the concept of changing immigration laws?And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem? Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Oh I understand the concept. I just think that giving the current lawbreakers a pass by changing the law is nuts.
Especially since there are only two reasons that the elite ruling class wants to change the immigration laws:
The Democrats want new voters.
The Republicans want new low income employees.
Manedwolf,
Amen.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 09:15:01 AM
Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants? Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
Do you honestly not understand the concept of changing immigration laws?And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass. What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border? Just give them a pass, too?
"Cui Bono"??
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem? Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Oh I understand the concept. I just think that giving the current lawbreakers a pass by changing the law is nuts.
Especially since there are only two reasons that the elite ruling class wants to change the immigration laws:
The Democrats want new voters.
The Republicans want new low income employees.
Manedwolf,
Amen.
What is this "elite ruling class"? Who are these people? I want names.
Post by: Paddy on March 05, 2008, 09:21:41 AM
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"? Who are these people? I want names.
Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them. You can look up the names yourself. Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 12:56:40 PM
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"? Who are these people? I want names.
Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them. You can look up the names yourself. Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.
Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 05, 2008, 02:38:52 PM
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"? Who are these people? I want names.
Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them. You can look up the names yourself. Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.
Thanks. Saved me the trouble.
Quote
So you could name, what, a thousand people? And they have managed to stay in power despite the wishes of the other 350 million?
Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.
Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.
Someone's been drinking the "democratic republic" kool aid again.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 04:54:59 PM
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"? Who are these people? I want names.
Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them. You can look up the names yourself. Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.
Thanks. Saved me the trouble.
Quote
So you could name, what, a thousand people? And they have managed to stay in power despite the wishes of the other 350 million?
Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.
Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.
Someone's been drinking the "democratic republic" kool aid again.
JamisJockey, it must be tough going through life poor and Black.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 05, 2008, 05:25:04 PM
I give.
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
Good luck with turning Amerika in North Jaurez.
Post by: christopher on March 05, 2008, 05:36:20 PM
NEVER FORGET...
On September 11, 2001, the willful negligence of federal, state, and local politicians aided in the murder of 3000 people. These murders were the foreseeable, inevitable result of decisions made by Presidents and Congresses beginning in the 1960s. They dismantled procedures that screened out dangerous aliens attempting to get visas while masquerading as students, tourists, and business travelers; and concurrently, to open US borders to millions of illegal aliens.
ALL nineteen of the 9/11 terrorists were given entry visas by the State Department despite laws that barred all of them.
In disregarding the law, bureaucrats merely obeyed the wishes of politicians who in turn bowed to lobbying and campaign contributions by the travel and education industries. They wanted ever increasing numbers of aliens to fill more airplane seats, amusement parks, hotels, and college and university classrooms.
There were profits to make and political careers to build by making it easy for any alien to get a visa, and neither the profiteers nor the politicians cared if some visitors were terrorists and criminals.
Meanwhile, employers such as beef and poultry processors, contractors, etc., discovered that the worker protections of the New Deal could be evaded and profits increased if American labor was replaced by cheap foreign workers, both legal and illegal.
Presidents and Congresses responded to their campaign donations by stripping Americas borders of personnel needed to keep out illegals and ending prosecutions of employers of illegals. State and city politicians joined in by giving drivers licenses, subsidized housing, and free medical care to illegals, and refusing to report them to the INS.
By 2001, the result of these political decisions was a population of over 10 million illegals and a culture of absolute lawlessness.
Thus, Al Qaedas planners knew the U.S. would grant visas to their agents, and that once in the U.S. the terrorists could blend in with the millions of illegals, free from fear of discovery; free to get drivers licenses, open bank accounts; free to finance, plan, and rehearse their mass murder; free, with U.S.-issued drivers licenses as valid ID, to board planes they would use to murder our loved ones.
All this freedom was granted them, wrongfully but knowingly, by American politicians in order to get support from those who profit from open borders. This must stop.
- Peter Gadiel, J.D., father of James Gadiel who was lost in the World Trade Center Disaster.
Peter is now a Board Member of 9/11 Families for a Secure America www.911fsa.org
Institutionalizing illegal immigration creates a mindset in people that anything goes in the U.S. It creates a new subculture, with a sequela of social ills. - Patrick Ortega, News and Public-affairs Director of Radio Nueva Vida in southern California
In a statewide poll more Californians named crime as the most serious problem facing the state than any other issue, including education. With reason. California crime rates rose 3.2 percent in 2005 and homicides rose more than 4 percent. Robberies rose 5.2 percent and aggravated assaults by 2.6 percent. Many counties saw even more dramatic increases.
While experts differ on the causes of crime rate increases in our state, much of the evidence points to growing population densities and increasing poverty and unemployment. In many ways, we are importing danger when we leave our borders open to whoever wants to enter, and when we tolerate lawbreaking at the border.
In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) are for illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are also for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens comprise 75 percent of L.A.s Most Wanted list.
By the end of 2005, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations inmate count had risen to 195 percent of the prison systems capacity. Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican illegal aliens. Currently, many are released early due to overcrowding, even felons.
Over the last 20 years, prison populations have surged in every state in the countrydoubling, and then doubling again. The United States now has more than two million people incarcerated. That's more than ever before, and more than any other country.
9/11 Families for a Secure America www.911fsa.org
The American Cause www.theamericancause.org
The American Conservative www.amconmag.com
American Engineering Association www.aea.org
Americans for Better Immigration www.betterimmigration.com
American Immigration Control Foundation www.aicfoundation.com
American Outlook www.americanoutlook.org
American Patrol www.americanpatrol.com
American Resistance www.theamericanresistance.com
The Terry Anderson Show www.theterryandersonshow.com
American Worker www.americanworker.org
George Borjas www.borjas.com
Patrick J. Buchanan www.buchanan.org
California Coalition for Immigration Reform www.ccir.net
Californians for Population Stabilization www.capsweb.org
Carrying Capacity Network www.carryingcapacity.org
Center for American Unity www.cfau.org
Center for Immigration Studies www.cis.org
Coalition for the Future American Worker www.americanworker.org
Deport Aliens www.deportaliens.com
Diversity Alliance for a Sustainable America www.diversityalliance.org
Eco Future www.ecofuture.org
English First www.englishfirst.org
Escaping Justice www.escapingjustice.com
F.A.I.R. www.fairus.org
Don Feder www.donfeder.com
For The Cause www.forthecause.us
Otis L, Graham Jr. www.otisgraham.com
N.I.V. Info. www.zazona.com
H1B Info. www.h1b.info
Hans Hoppe www.hanshoppe.com
Hire American Citizens www.hireamericancitizens.org
Hudson Institute www.hudson.org
IEEE-USA www.ieeeusa.org
Illegal Immigration Boycott www.millerboycott.com
Immigration Counters www.immigrationcounters.com
Immigration Watch (Canada) www.immigrationwatchcanada.org
On Power www.onpower.org
Issues & Views www.issues-views.com
William J. Olson www.lawandfreedom.com
Legal American Folks www.legalamericanfolks.com
American Immigration Lawyers www.lyrelyrepantzandfier.com
Michelle Malkin www.michellemalkin.com
Midwest Coalition to Reduce Immigration www.immigrationreform.org
Migration Dialogue www.migrationucdavis.edu
Nevada Action Coalition www.unitetofight.org
Numbers USA www.numbersusa.com
Oregonians for Immigration Reform www.oregonir.org
Predatory Aliens www.predatoryaliens.com
Pro English www.proenglish.org
Save Our State www.saveourstate.org
Secured Borders U.S.A. www.securedbordersusa.com
Support U.S. Population Stabilization www.susps.org
Sobran's www.sobran.com
Southeastern Legal Foundation www.southeasternlegal.org
Utahns for Immigration Reform & Enforcement www.ufire.net
V Dare www.vdare.com
Wake Up America www.wakeupamericausa
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 05:41:13 PM
I've been poor. I have black friends. Does that count?
I give.
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
Good luck with turning Amerika in North Jaurez.
I give.
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
Good luck with turning Amerika in North Jaurez.
No, I didnt think you would.
Thanks for playing. Don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your true-blue beliefs. Nighty night.
Post by: Paddy on March 05, 2008, 05:50:54 PM
Quote
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
I think I can help. Rabbi is largely motivated by his warm hearted humanitarianism. He wants to share the great wealth of our nation with the poor, disenfranchised, illiterate Mexican peasants. That's all there is to it. Along with a tiny bit of the usual Jewish shuld.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 05, 2008, 05:53:44 PM
Quote
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
I think I can help. Rabbi is largely motivated by his warm hearted humanitarianism. He wants to share the great wealth of our nation with the poor, disenfranchised, illiterate Mexican peasants. That's all there is to it. Along with a tiny bit of the usual Jewish shuld.
No. Typically you've missed the entire point. Not surprising really.
Post by: Paddy on March 05, 2008, 05:59:09 PM
Post by: Hawkmoon on March 05, 2008, 07:15:53 PM
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem? Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Are you asking about people who are here illegally, taking jobs that are needed by people who are here legally, absorbing money from our economy and sending to other countries while taking advantage of our health care and educational systems? THOSE people?I'd say the answer has to be "liabilities." No other answer makes any sense whatsoever.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 06, 2008, 01:53:43 AM
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem? Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Are you asking about people who are here illegally, taking jobs that are needed by people who are here legally, absorbing money from our economy and sending to other countries while taking advantage of our health care and educational systems? THOSE people?I'd say the answer has to be "liabilities." No other answer makes any sense whatsoever.
Post by: Glock Glockler on March 07, 2008, 06:39:33 AM
Why couldn't they be both?
Post by: keeleon on March 07, 2008, 01:32:35 PM
Quote
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem? Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
I don't see people in general as one or the other. But I do see, specifically, the immigrants who cross our borders ILLEGALLY and circumvent our laws by getting ILLEGAL identification, and stealing SS numbers to acquire free benefits that they do not deserve ILLEGALLY as a liability, yes. I do believe that a decent number of those 14 million people are here to work hard and do something to better themselves, and want their children to learn english and become successful. Unfortunately there is also an equal number of them that commit many crimes, drain our resources, and steal our tax dollars. The point is, that NONE of them should be here. By all means make it easy to become a citizen, but you still have to through the process.
You can be the best driver in the world, but if you didn't feel like going through the (not very difficult) process of getting a driver's license, you are driving ILLEGALLY, and will be treated as such. Do you disagree with this? You probably feel that no one should need to have a license to drive, just like you feel that guns should be completly unlicensed and unregulated. If so, then that is your opinion, which is fine, but THAT is where the distinction is, not that you have a soft spot for ILLEGAL aliens. And if so, you should present your case in that manner, and not specifically in defense of that one group, because that is the worst stance to take "can't we all just get along?" on.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 07, 2008, 02:03:11 PM
really? can you substantiate that? and no sturmfront stats please it gets boring
Post by: keeleon on March 07, 2008, 02:48:34 PM
Quote
Unfortunately there is also an equal number of them that commit many crimes
Well, for starters they are ALL at least committing one crime. No I can't substantiate that with statistics. See funny thing about people stealing SS numbers to "blend in" with society, it's very hard to pinpoint exactly how many of them there are unless they are caught. Kind of like I can't come up with statistics showing how many crimes are prevented because of legal CCW. Several hospitals in the SoCal area have had to close because people were not paying their bills. They were required to help people regardless of their citizenship or insurance. I'm sure you could agree that a great many of those people were not legal US citizens, but how are we to know, since they weren't required to prove it. I work in an elementary school that has to print every paper in spanish because 20% of the students and their families don't speak english. Do you think this is because of a sudden influx of LEGAL immigrants that just haven't assimilated yet? Or is it possibly a large number of people that are here illegally consuming our tax dollars by putting their children in our schools?
You are using the "aethiesm by empirical data" theory here, which doesn't work. Facts cannot be proven, they can only be disproven. Something is fact only as long as it remains disproven. So technically, the burden is on you to show me how these people are NOT breaking the law, and being a burden on our society.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 07, 2008, 03:53:00 PM
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/unemployment_rate_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1
There were 351,000 NEW unemployment claims last week. But yeah, lets welcome 14million more mouths to the table to feed....
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 07, 2008, 03:57:02 PM
how were you interpreting the word fell and the phrase better than analysts expect
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 07, 2008, 04:04:03 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 07, 2008, 04:08:41 PM
Post by: seeker_two on March 07, 2008, 04:37:57 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 09:08:05 AM
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 9, 2008; Page C01
The four-bedroom, 1950s rambler on Hanover Avenue in Springfield was an illegal boardinghouse, neighbors complained in February 2007. Some called it the "Hanover Hotel," a home with too many people, too much noise and a lot of cars.
County inspectors, under pressure from residents and elected officials to deal with a growing number of cases of residential overcrowding, found that the basement had been improperly divided into four rooms and that the house was set up for as many as 15 occupants.
They cited the owner, Elsa DeLeon, for a series of code violations and ordered her to bring the property into compliance. DeLeon, a Honduran immigrant, told The Washington Post at the time that only eight people lived there, all family members who were needed to help make the mortgage on the house she bought for $550,000 in 2006.
By May, it was in foreclosure, sold to Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. of Kansas City for $120,600, according to county records. The house has been vacant for months; DeLeon could not be located to comment. It will go up for auction Sunday, along with hundreds of other foreclosed properties, at the Washington Convention Center. The starting price is set at $169,000 -- less than half the value of surrounding homes.
This is not what Fairfax County officials had in mind when they started cracking down on overcrowding. The goal was to restore stability to older neighborhoods where homes had been rented to immigrant laborers or purchased by extended immigrant families that pooled their resources in a region of premium housing prices.
Although the hard line has produced results, it has also yielded unintended consequences. In such instances as Hanover Avenue, one perceived blight has essentially been replaced by another: an overcrowded house for one that is vacant and in foreclosure.
No one is suggesting that more aggressive county enforcement, including the "Enhanced Code Enforcement Strike Team" begun last June, is the sole reason for the more than 1,800 bank-owned properties on the market in Fairfax. They are part of a national surge in foreclosures fueled by a flagging economy and the collapse of the subprime mortgage sector.
But on a new color-coded map created by the county to plot foreclosures in Fairfax from January 2007 though the end of last month, two bright orange spots dominate. Both also happen to be the focus of intensive efforts to curb overcrowding: the Springfield neighborhoods that include the Hanover Avenue house, and portions of Herndon. In Herndon's case, the regulatory push has been led by the town government, which has instituted multiple policies aimed at making the community less hospitable to illegal immigrants.
No hard numbers are available to quantify the correlation between overcrowding enforcement and foreclosures. But Supervisor Jeff C. McKay (D-Lee) said the evidence he has seen leaves him with little doubt. Owners unable to subsidize their mortgage payments with illegal numbers of occupants have been unable to keep their houses.
"It's mixed feelings," McKay said. "You hate to be the keeper of a neighborhood with a lot of foreclosures, but a lot of these are due to our systematic strike-team efforts. When you can't rent rooms in a boardinghouse, you're going to go out of business."
Although illegal occupancies can create serious quality-of-life issues, foreclosures can be just as toxic for a neighborhood. Subprime foreclosures in Virginia could push the value of nearby properties down by an average of $6,700 over the next two years, according to a study by the Center for Responsible Lending, a North Carolina nonprofit research firm.
Foreclosed properties also tend to remain vacant for extended periods, becoming magnets for vandalism and other crime, and be ill-maintained by the banks or other financial institutions that own them.
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 05:09:40 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 05:11:21 PM
Post by: luckyorwhat on March 08, 2008, 05:28:14 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 05:33:20 PM
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 05:35:37 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 05:40:34 PM
show us a link to the log.
heres a lil hint riley i can go to tijiana meico and you can't even make that statement(sic) fly
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 05:44:37 PM
Quote
heres a lil hint riley i can go to tijiana meico and you can't even make that statement(sic) fly
Of course not because all the criminals in TJ are Mexican nationals.
And if you can't figure out who's illegal and who's not without some official government stat, {insult deleted}
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 06:27:25 PM
i was giving you a chance to back away slowly. you do amuse though. i'vr lived and worked in parts of dc where there were a fair number of illegals and worked kitchens where we had the "amigoe phone" if you called for me you asked for chinito and they would find me.i'm getting an all white neighborhood vibe from you though
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 06:30:46 PM
Quote
i'vr lived and worked in parts of dc where there were a fair number of illegals and worked kitchens where we had the "amigoe phone" if you called for me you asked for chinito and they would find me.i'm getting an all white neighborhood vibe from you though
I know, you were a fry cook or something. DC's not in the South. I rest my case. Look up Atascadero, CA. That's where I live.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 06:39:31 PM
like i said
Post by: The Rabbi on March 08, 2008, 07:03:57 PM
I dunno where you live, cd, but check the police log in Santa Maria, CA. A haven for illegals. Every freaking stabbing, shooting, rape and robbery is committed by an illegal. Prove me wrong.
And strangely crime has declined in CA even as the illegal population has increased. I guess Mexicans are displacing hard-working American criminals, stealing all their drug spots and whatever.
I brought this to CAnoneer's attention and his response was "the numbers are fixed." That's what you say when you've been proven dead wrong.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 07:05:11 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on March 08, 2008, 07:06:41 PM
the folks in white neighborhoods always worry about the invasion
Sure.I seldom see anti-immigrant Irish rhetoric, despite the fact that the Irish are well represented among illegals.
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 07:09:08 PM
Quote
That's what you say when you've been proven dead wrong.
Except that you haven't 'proven' anything. You don't live here and have no idea what's going on. Oh, and crime is always lower in CA than anywhere in the South, dontcha know.
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 07:09:53 PM
the folks in white neighborhoods always worry about the invasion
Sure.I seldom see anti-immigrant Irish rhetoric, despite the fact that the Irish are well represented among illegals.
Another freaking lie. Prove it or STFU.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 08, 2008, 07:10:34 PM
Quote
That's what you say when you've been proven dead wrong.
Except that you haven't 'proven' anything. You don't live here and have no idea what's going on. Oh, and crime is always lower in CA than anywhere in the South, dontcha know.
Crime is lower in CA today than it was 10 years ago. That's a fact, mister. I dont need to live there to know that.
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 07:13:51 PM
Quote
Crime is lower in CA today than it was 10 years ago. That's a fact, mister. I dont need to live there to know that.
And of course that's a result of increase illegal immigration. OK.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 08, 2008, 07:15:30 PM
Quote
Crime is lower in CA today than it was 10 years ago. That's a fact, mister. I dont need to live there to know that.
And of course that's a result of increase illegal immigration. OK.
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 07:22:00 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 07:24:18 PM
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 07:35:52 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 07:45:38 PM
for myself i'm 1/2 japanese 1/2 irish black irish to some folks i look latino or native american. over a few decades i've encontered quite a few folks who have issues and get mouthy and brave when they think its safe like on the internet or on a jobsite where they feel bold. as a result i've developed a lotta broken bones in my hands as well as a pretty healty disdain and contempt for those kinda folks. even when they change their tune when they find out i'm not one of "them", on the flip side i've worked as a chef in places where we had 100's of immigrants working for us and where many were illegal and found them to be decent hard working folks. i am irish enough to think the enemy of my enemy is my friend as well as the enemy of my friend is my enemy. plus so often you encounter the bully in the anto folks and i've always enjoyed hunting bullies alwaysin season no bag limits
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 07:46:56 PM
Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 07:55:04 PM
I couldn't care less what 'color' you are and I damn sure wouldn't pick a fight with you over it. Why the hell do you think your ethnic heritage makes any difference? I asked you why you're pro illegal immigration.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 08:06:29 PM
read it as slow as you need to lil less than a mill in 2004 were irish
heres some close to home http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/15/IRISH.TMP
BAY AREA
Irish join battle over illegal immigration
St. Patrick's Day vehicle for activists seeking reform
Tyche Hendricks, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 15, 2006
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The Irish are standing up to be counted among the nation's illegal immigrants, hoping their civic appeal at St. Patrick's Day will soften the debate over immigration reform.
At St. Patrick's Day parades in San Francisco and Chicago last weekend, activists with the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform wore white-and-green T-shirts saying "Legalize The Irish" and passed out fliers urging people to call their elected representatives in support of allowing undocumented workers to earn legal status as guest workers. Similar activism is expected at parades in other cities in coming days.
Adding heft to the immigrants' message, Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, who visited San Jose on Tuesday, plans to push President Bush for legal status for illegal Irish immigrants when he visits the White House on Friday, St. Patrick's Day.
Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America. Other countries contributing significantly to illegal immigration are Russia, Poland, Canada, Haiti, Korea, India, China and the Philippines.
"We've had some very surprised reactions when they hear it is an issue for the Irish," said Celine Kennelly, executive director for the Irish Immigration Pastoral Center in San Francisco, an advice and referral service sponsored by the Irish Catholic Conference of Bishops.
"They are in as dire straits as any other ethnic group," said Kennelly, who estimates there are 3,000 to 4,000 Irish illegal immigrants in San Francisco, most working in construction, in restaurants or as nannies and caretakers for the elderly. "They cannot get driver's licenses, it's harder to open bank accounts, they cannot travel home and return again. ... The relationship between Ireland and America is so long and fantastic, but it's in danger now."
More than 250,000 Irish immigrants reside in the United States, according to the census, and most of them are here legally. But in recent decades, most arrivals from Ireland have overstayed their visas and become illegal immigrants, said Kennelly, because the government is issuing fewer work visas. A 1991 program offered legal permanent residence to about 16,000 undocumented Irish, but there has been no legalization plan since then.
Kennelly helped organize a town hall meeting in San Francisco this month that drew 1,000 Irish immigrants ready to campaign on the issue. And she was among 2,000 Irish people who rallied in Washington last week for guest-worker legislation sponsored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.
In Chicago on Friday, hundreds of Irish residents joined an unprecedented 100,000-strong rally opposing a bill that passed the House last year and another proposed that's scheduled to come to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday that would make it a felony to be an illegal immigrant or to aid one.
"Most people thought it was just a Mexican thing, but it's not. It's Irish, Polish, Korean, Chinese," said Billy Lawless, the owner of two Chicago pubs who led a contingent called Celts for Immigration Reform. "If they want to deport the whole group, who's going to work in our kitchens? Who's going to work in our construction industry?"
Lawless compared the anti-immigrant sentiment he has encountered from groups like the Minutemen to the cold reception Irish immigrants received when they fled the potato famine in their homeland in the 19th century.
Illegal Irish immigrants, like those from other parts of Europe and Asia, generally enter the United States on a legitimate work, school or tourist visa and stay after it expires.
In the Bay Area, immigrant advocates plan a hunger strike and candlelight vigil all next week at the San Francisco Federal Building in a push for immigration reform. Organizer Sheila Chung said she expects participation from Irish immigrants, as well as Latino, Filipino, Chinese, Caribbean, Arab and others.
Irish participation -- motivated in part by Catholic archbishops -- can help advance the immigration-reform movement, said East Bay immigration lawyer Sarnata Reynolds, who is Irish by birth.
"They're a community that isn't viewed as 'bad.' People don't assume they might be undocumented," she said. "The Irish lobby has been very well organized
An Irish Face on the Cause of Citizenship
By NINA BERNSTEIN
March 16, 2006
The New York Times (See front page image here)
Rory Dolan's, a restaurant in Yonkers, was packed with hundreds of illegal Irish immigrants on that rainy Friday night in January when the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform called its first meeting. Niall O'Dowd, the chairman, (pictured, right) soon had them cheering.
"You're not just some guy or some woman in the Bronx, you're part of a movement," Mr. O'Dowd told the crowd of construction workers, students and nannies. He was urging them to support a piece of Senate legislation that would let them work legally toward citizenship, rather than punishing them with prison time, as competing bills would.
For months, coalitions of Latino, Asian and African immigrants from 50 countries have been championing the same measure with scant attention, even from New York's Democratic senators. But the Irish struck out on their own six weeks ago, and as so often before in the history of American immigration policy, they have landed center stage.
Last week, when Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Charles E. Schumer declared their support for a new path to citizenship, and denounced criminal penalties recently passed by the House of Representatives, they did so not at the large, predominantly Hispanic immigrant march on Washington, but at the much smaller Irish rally held there the following day.
Some in the immigrant coalitions resent being passed over, and worry that the Irish are angling for a separate deal. Others welcome the clout and razzmatazz the Irish bring to a beleaguered cause. And both groups can point to an extraordinary Irish track record of lobbying triumphs, like the creation of thousands of special visas in the 1980's and 90's that one historian of immigration, Roger Daniels, calls "affirmative action for white Europeans."
Mainly, though, they marvel at the bipartisan muscle and positive spin the illegal Irish can still muster, even as their numbers dwindle to perhaps 25,000 to 50,000 across the country those left behind by a tide of return migration to a now-prosperous Ireland.
This week, as the Senate Judiciary Committee wrestles with a comprehensive immigration bill, towns across the country are preparing to celebrate their Irish roots. On Friday, St. Patrick's Day, President Bush is to meet with Ireland's prime minister, Bertie Ahern, who has vowed to put the legalization of the Irish at the top of his agenda. And Irish Lobby volunteers are ready to leverage the attention, with "Legalize the Irish" T-shirts and pressure on senators like Rick Santorum, Republican of Pennsylvania, who is in a tight race against Bob Casey Jr., a Democrat of Irish ancestry.
The new Irish dynamic is all the more striking because the Republican Party is fiercely split over immigration, and many Democrats have hung back from the fray, judging the issue too hot to handle in an election year.
"They're still good at the game," said Linda Dowling Almeida, who teaches the history of Irish immigration at New York University. She and other historians noted that in the mid-19th century, Irish immigrants used the clout of urban political machines and leadership by the Roman Catholic Church to beat back a nativist movement that saw them as a threat to national security and American culture.
More recently, Mr. O'Dowd, the publisher of The Irish Voice, was himself part of a lobby that leaned on legislators with Irish heritage to engineer more than 48,000 visas for the Irish, legalizing many who had re-greened old Celtic neighborhoods in New York, Boston and Philadelphia.
But much has changed. After 9/11, a groundswell of anger over illegal immigration converged with national security concerns, propelling a populist revolt across party lines. Immigration is now seen as a no-win issue in electoral politics. And both opponents and supporters of legalization take a more jaundiced view of the Irish role in the debate.
"They're essentially saying, 'Look, we're good European illegal immigrants,' " said Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which supports the House and Senate measures that would turn "unlawful presence," now a civil violation, into a crime. "The reason they've been more successful is the same reason it appeals to editors immigration nostalgia from 150 years ago."
He added: "Can they be bought off by a special program for a handful of remaining illegals? I'm not saying it's a good idea, but you just start talking about the old sod and singing 'Danny Boy,' and of course it's possible."
A special measure for the Irish would be hard to pass today, countered Muzaffar Chishti, the director of the New York office of Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research organization that has generally supported immigrant amnesties. In earlier campaigns, he recalled, an Irish lobby worked with other immigrant groups, and all won pieces of their agenda.
"It was extremely important for the optics on Capitol Hill," Mr. Chishti said. "The Irish were also very savvy about it at that time. They knew that they would get some special Irish treatment, but they also wanted to make it look like they were part of the immigrant coalition."
Today, the lobby's most crucial role, he said, may be changing the political calculus of Democrats who have shunned the immigration issue as a no-win choice between responding to Latinos and looking tough on immigration. Many Irish-Americans are swing voters, he said, and "it becomes sort of a tipping point for the Democratic Party."
For now, Mr. O'Dowd said, the Irish Lobby's focus is entirely on supporting the McCain-Kennedy bill, which would allow illegal immigrants who qualify to pay a $2,000 fine and work toward citizenship. But if no such measure emerges from Congress, he added, the Irish Lobby will push for any special arrangement it can get "as will every other ethnic group in the country."
Special visas for the Irish "would be brilliant," said Valery O'Donnell, a house cleaner and single mother of 7-year-old twins who was at the Rory Dolan's meeting, and said she had lived in New York illegally for 13 years. "There's no harm in us. We're all out here to work hard."
But several immigrant advocates in New York said that even the hint of special treatment for the Irish would inflame the hurt feelings that began in February when Senator Schumer first spoke out on immigration at an Irish Lobby event in Woodside, Queens, after declining invitations by veteran immigrant organizations more representative of an estimated 700,000 illegal immigrants in the state. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 78 percent of the nation's nearly 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico or elsewhere in Latin America.
Spokesmen for the two senators said that their appearances had been determined only by what fit their schedules, and that their support for immigrants was not meant for a specific group.
Some immigrant leaders were not convinced. Juan Carlos Ruiz, the coordinator of the predominantly Hispanic rally of 40,000 held March 7 on Capitol Hill, said that only one senator had shown up there, without speaking: Richard J. Durbin, an Illinois Democrat. The next day, Mr. Ruiz said, when he and his 14-year-old son stopped by the Irish gathering of about 2,400 and realized that the speakers included Senators Edward M. Kennedy, John McCain, as well as Senators Clinton and Schumer, his son asked, "Why didn't the senators come to our rally?"
"I was heartbroken," Mr. Ruiz said. "I needed to explain to him: 'The immigrants of color, for these senators we are not important enough for them to make a space in their calendar.' "
He added: "The Irish are not at fault. They are suffering the same troubles that we are. But it is discrimination."
Monami Maulik, a leader in another coalition, Immigrant Communities in Action, echoed his sentiment. "For a lot of us, this is a current civil rights struggle," she said.
But when the phrase was repeated to Mr. O'Dowd, he countered: "It's not about that at all. It's about how you change the law." For years, he added, he has lobbied to win nearly lost causes, including helping to broker a ceasefire in Northern Ireland. "It's not about being fair, it's about being good," he said. "It's about getting it done."
Matthew Swe
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 08, 2008, 08:13:59 PM
April 8, 2007
Woodlawn, The Bronx IMAGINE HILLARY Clinton holding up a T-shirt that read: "Legalize Mexicans." That's not going to happen, right?
Well, last month in Washington, at a rally hosted by the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, the leading Democratic candidate for president actually did have her picture taken holding a shirt that read: "Legalize the Irish." That's the lobby's in-your-face slogan, which says a lot about the role that race (and ethnicity) plays in the debate about illegal immigration. Latino activists bend over backward trying to cloak undocumented Mexican migrants in the slogan "We are America," but their Irish counterparts don't feel similarly obliged.
There are an estimated 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S.; 30,000 of them are thought to live in New York City. Today, this tiny corner in the northern reaches of the Bronx is perhaps the most heavily Irish-born neighborhood in New York, and advocates believe that as many as 40% of local immigrants are undocumented.
On Tuesday afternoon, I walked up Katonah Avenue, Woodlawn's main shopping street, trying to guess who was or wasn't here illegally. How about that blond woman walking with her child? Or perhaps the redhead in pink sweats? Surely the two rough-hewn construction workers enjoying a lunchtime beer at the Rambling House bar didn't have papers. Like the woman I met in California's Central Valley a few months ago who told me how odd it had been to see white people engaged in farm labor in Australia, it was a decidedly new sensation for me to suspect all the white people around me of being illegal.
"When I tell people I'm undocumented, it shocks them," said Mary Brennan, a nurse's aide who has lived in the U.S. for almost 17 years. "They think of JFK or Ronald Reagan, and they can't understand how an Irish person could be illegal."
Though Brennan shares the hardships of undocumented status with other illegal immigrants throughout the country last year she was unable to attend her brother's funeral in Ireland for fear that she'd be denied reentry to the U.S. she acknowledges that Irish illegals do have a slight advantage. It's all in the stereotypes race-based, language-based, class-based.
Her friend, contractor Dermot Byrne, who also is here illegally, agrees. "From my experience, we're not singled out. If someone's driving down the street and they see five Mexican guys on one side and five Irish guys on the other, they're going to think that the Mexicans are illegal, even though it could be the other way around."
Despite his status, Byrne has placed a pro-immigration-reform sticker on his car, as well as Irish versions of an "I love Jalisco" decal that identify his and his wife's home counties in the old country.
Irish immigrant advocates are acutely aware that the American public doesn't identify the Irish as alien, let alone illegal, and they consciously leverage this positive prejudice to their advantage.
"The fact that they're white Europeans agitating for immigration reform is helpful," said Niall O'Dowd, chairman of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform and publisher of the Irish Voice newspaper. "Bottom line is that every ethnic group brings their own strength to the debate. We can't put a million people in the street, but we have positive political identification and a lot of access to Democrats and Republicans."
There are 40 million Americans of Irish descent, and O'Dowd believes that a good portion of them, particularly the politicians, are sympathetic to the plight of illegal Irish immigrants. His office is filled with snapshots of him shoulder to shoulder with the likes of John McCain, Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy. "The key is to have sympathetic politicians of the same ethnic background," he said.
Seeking to put a white Irish face on the issue of illegal immigration, O'Dowd and the Irish Lobby sent a delegation of 3,000 undocumented workers to Washington last month, not to protest but to lobby U.S. lawmakers. "We Irish are good at playing politics from the inside," he said. "When politicians see that even the Irish can be undocumented, then they realize that there's something wrong with the immigration system."
But whites' more favorable view of illegal immigrants who look like them may not translate to the growing number of Americans whose ancestors do not hail from Europe. The Pakistani-born cab driver who took me from the subway station to Katonah Avenue said he generally found Irish immigrants to be nice, as well as good tippers. "But they won't rent you an apartment around here if you're not Irish," he said. "They don't want to mix with other races."
Damn immigrants.
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Post by: Paddy on March 08, 2008, 08:14:44 PM
"Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America."
According to the link provided, illegal immigration from Ireland comprises less that 1% of the 11 to 12 million illegal border jumping wetbacks. And the Irish already speak English, so what is your point, anyway?
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 09, 2008, 04:10:49 AM
Do you even read what you post, cd?
"Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America."
According to the link provided, illegal immigration from Ireland comprises less that 1% of the 11 to 12 million illegal border jumping wetbacks. And the Irish already speak English, so what is your point, anyway?
"Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America."
According to the link provided, illegal immigration from Ireland comprises less that 1% of the 11 to 12 million illegal border jumping wetbacks. And the Irish already speak English, so what is your point, anyway?
He probably thinks I don't support sending white people packing
Me, I don't care what color or language. If they are here illegally, they are breaking our laws, and should be sent home.
Post by: seeker_two on March 09, 2008, 04:26:44 AM
Post by: christopher on March 09, 2008, 05:20:23 AM
Crime:
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Institutionalizing illegal immigration creates a mindset in people that anything goes in the U.S. It creates a new subculture, with a sequela of social ills. - Patrick Ortega, News and Public-affairs Director of Radio Nueva Vida in southern California
In a statewide poll more Californians named crime as the most serious problem facing the state than any other issue, including education. With reason. California crime rates rose 3.2 percent in 2005 and homicides rose more than 4 percent. Robberies rose 5.2 percent and aggravated assaults by 2.6 percent. Many counties saw even more dramatic increases.
While experts differ on the causes of crime rate increases in our state, much of the evidence points to growing population densities and increasing poverty and unemployment. In many ways, we are importing danger when we leave our borders open to whoever wants to enter, and when we tolerate lawbreaking at the border.
In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) are for illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are also for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens comprise 75 percent of L.A.s Most Wanted list.
By the end of 2005, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations inmate count had risen to 195 percent of the prison systems capacity. Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican illegal aliens. Currently, many are released early due to overcrowding, even felons.
Over the last 20 years, prison populations have surged in every state in the countrydoubling, and then doubling again. The United States now has more than two million people incarcerated. That's more than ever before, and more than any other country.
Water Supply:
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"Models show that even if we take action now to reduce emissions, we will still face serious stresses to water supply in California. Increases in [climate] temperature both decreases water availability while increasing demand. It will no longer just be a battle among the farming industry, the environmental groups and the cities, but those within each interest group will be competing with each other for water." - W. Michael Hanemann, professor of agricultural and resource economics and director of the California Climate Change Center at UC Berkeley
A 2004 study from UC Berkeley predicts that California will experience significantly hotter summers throughout this century, thanks to worsening air pollution, with resulting impacts on human health and the availability of water.
And Californians are no strangers to water shortages.
Farmers are already required to cut back on the water used for crops. The San Joaquin-Sacramento Delta, the major water source for two-thirds of the state, is increasingly challenged by its fragile levees and growing demands. By the year 2020, demands on our water supply will result in shortages of six to 14 percent per year.
California has been ordered to wean itself from the excess of 800,000 acre-feet of water over its legal allotment from the Colorado River each year, but we have no viable alternative source. Yet our state acquires new water users at a rate of at least 500,000 people per year through immigration. Continuing our unchecked population growth means accelerating and exacerbating predicted water shortages and demands for water.
BOYCOTT:
Wells Fargo, BofA, Tyson Foods, Miller Brewing
Jobs: Selling Out Americans:
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Working America is facing a crisis. Its a jobs crisis and its the number one issue facing Americans. Despite our so-called recovery, far too many people are out of work, and many have been out of work for a long time. - Former AFL-CIO President John Sweeney
Growing numbers of Californians and Americans in general, are being displaced by lower cost legal and illegal immigrant workers. Farmers, contractors, and businesses see cheap foreign labor as a way to cut costs and increase profits.
Of particular concern is the glut of professional H-1B visa workers in the tech industry. By lobbying Congress, tech companies have helped continue to raise the number of H-1B visas issued annually to foreign workers. These companies aggressively recruit foreign workers willing to work longer hours for less benefits and lower salaries. In the past 10 years, 890,000 American high tech workers were forced to train their replacements on the job.
The tech industry claims shortages of high-tech workers, but even this year the number of H1-B visas issued exceeded the number of jobs created by the industry.
The result is thousands of Californians who are either unemployed or underemployed. The impact is especially brutal on minorities who are often overlooked by employers in favor of cheap foreign and often illegal labor.
Nationally, some estimates for the number of American workers displaced by immigration each year are as high as two million.
And then theres wage depression. By adding millions of newcomers to the work force who are willing to work for Third World wages, we are creating unfair competition and lower-wage jobs for all workers. Not surprisingly, immigration is credited with 40 to 50 percent of the wage depression in recent decades for workers without a high school degree.
Energy Crisis:
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An unreliable energy system discourages businesses from locating or even remaining in California, resulting in lost jobs and state revenues. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
In an average year, California adds over 500,000 to its already burgeoning population; employers create about 250,000 new jobs; and developers construct approximately 200,000 new housing units. This type of record-breaking growth brings immense increases in demand for energy and other resources. How can we cope with this new level of demand? Will California have the energy it needs?
Part of the problem is poor planning by the state and its utilities and aging power plantsbut population is also a key factor.
Despite improvements in power plant licensing, enormously successful energy efficiency programs, and continued technological advances, development of new energy supplies in California is not keeping pace with the state's increasing demand. Construction of new power plants has lagged and the number of new plant permit applications has decreased.
While the Energy Crisis of 2000-2001 seems a part of the distant past, a 2004 report by the California Energy Commission predicted a recurrence of the crisis, beginning as early as 2006. Electricity rates, although not as erratic as during the 2000-2001 energy crisis, are still among the highest in the nation, forcing businesses to struggle to maintain profit margins as the cost of doing business in the state rises.
Energy demand will only continue to rise with California's rapidly growing population. Weather-adjusted electricity consumption in California increases at an average of two percent every year.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ONLY HELPS CORPORATIONS & we get stuck with the bill.
Will the person who started this post explain how "illegal" immigrants benefit me, or the social security mess or the water shortage, nurse shortage, teacher shortage or prison overcrowding or congested highways?
Post by: The Rabbi on March 09, 2008, 06:24:18 AM
Maybe you'd care to explain why you and Rabbi are so pro illegal immigration?
I am not pro-illegal immigration. That is a canard.I am pro legal immigration. A legal immigration that recognizes the basic right of "pursuit of happiness" as enshrined in the Declaration. A legal immigration that recognizes the economic reality that people come here to work because people here are looking for workers.
The only way to make that a reality is to change the current system to an instant-check visa and/or guest worker program.
Yes, that would probably bring X million more aliens here. So what? What are you worried about? Would probably drop the price of Dos Equis.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 09, 2008, 07:47:09 AM
interesting statement been debunked a dozen times maybe you could support it?
if not go back to your usual function making the paulista look sane and well grounded by comparison
as rabbi pointed out crime in the land of granola has fallen the murder rate has halved between 93 and 99 evenn as the brown horde invaded and is today at a 60% reduction from the 1990 level even as the poulkation grew by 6 mill
your "votestrike" site has some credibilty issues and a familiar miasma rises from it
key line from this part is
Despite improvements in power plant licensing, enormously successful energy efficiency programs, and continued technological advances, development of new energy supplies in California is not keeping pace with the state's increasing demand. Construction of new power plants has lagged and the number of new plant permit applications has decreased.
lil less treehugging or a lil less whining please
and the prison problem is easy reform immigration and free up all those beds used for folks held on strictly immigration charges. abandon the war on some drugs and we need to find jobs for a million inmates plus all the newly unemployed guards dea agents etc
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 12:28:31 PM
Quote
for myself i'm 1/2 japanese 1/2 irish black irish to some folks i look latino or native american.
So your entire pro illegal immigration motive is simply your own anti white racism-because you think you look latino? Is that what this is about?
?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 09, 2008, 12:38:13 PM
you got up to answering the questions posed to you? or they fall outside your comfort zone
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 02:26:50 PM
All I can say is you're hilarious, cd. You seem to think you're really making some kind of argument, I guess.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 09, 2008, 02:45:51 PM
why don't you explain how with the brown horde of crimnals coming in the crime rate hasn't gone up
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 03:01:33 PM
here ya go riley its a short one
why don't you explain how with the brown horde of crimnals coming in the crime rate hasn't gone up
why don't you explain how with the brown horde of crimnals coming in the crime rate hasn't gone up
Because the majority of illegal aliens are not Mexicans. They're Irish, and the Irish are hardworking, peaceful people.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 09, 2008, 03:06:38 PM
check with the cameraden at srturmfront and get an answer if you can
and leave that bucket of fish at home
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 03:09:31 PM
You win the Godwin award.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 09, 2008, 03:12:42 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on March 09, 2008, 03:19:28 PM
You just got through telling me that 1) the crime rate is down, 2) Illegal Irish immigration is the primary problem. It's the only conclusion to be drawn from your 'arguments'. Yet put 2+2 together, and it's 'srturmfront'.
You win the Godwin award.
No one said illegal Irish immigration is the primary problem. Show us one post where anyone said that.You win the Godwin award.
The fact is that the majority of illegals are Mexican. Fine.
Now answer the question: if illegals are causing a crime wave, then why is it crime has decreased precisely in those places with the highest rate of illegal immigration?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 09, 2008, 03:28:23 PM
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 03:34:58 PM
Quote
Now answer the question: if illegals are causing a crime wave, then why is it crime has decreased precisely in those places with the highest rate of illegal immigration?
OK, let's get serious. First, I don't think you've established 1) the crime rate has decreased 2) where the places with the 'highest rate of illegal immigration' are.
Because I can demonstrate that illegal immigration places an untenable burden on hospitals, local government police services, county welfare services, and state prisons. To the tune of billions every year.
Post by: The Rabbi on March 09, 2008, 03:39:55 PM
Quote
Now answer the question: if illegals are causing a crime wave, then why is it crime has decreased precisely in those places with the highest rate of illegal immigration?
OK, let's get serious. First, I don't think you've established 1) the crime rate has decreased 2) where the places with the 'highest rate of illegal immigration' are.
Because I can demonstrate that illegal immigration places an untenable burden on hospitals, local government police services, county welfare services, and state prisons. To the tune of billions every year.
No one has asked about untenable burdens on hospitals. We have asked about lower crime rates even with high rates of illegal immigration.
So get serious and answer the question.
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 03:47:18 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on March 09, 2008, 03:52:05 PM
OK, Rabbi. In reviewing your posts here, I fail to see any link to a reliable source for your premise. I may have missed it, so please point to the post number. Thank you.
It's in a different thread.But if you search for crime stats for CA you will readily find it.
Post by: Paddy on March 09, 2008, 04:18:57 PM
Let me study them for awhile and check with the CA AG's office. I will get back to you with an answer.
Post by: christopher on March 09, 2008, 08:22:35 PM
SOURCE:Bureau of Justice Statistics (www.ojp.usdoj.gov)
2.*28% of federal inmates are here illegally.
SOURCE for- www.votestrike.com -
Most stats or figures found on this site come from the government: GAO, Census Bureau, Commerce Dept., Bureau of Labor Statistics, etc. Whenever those numbers are in dispute or in question we'll say so within the text.
http://www.fedstats.gov
DESCRIPTION: The Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy maintains this site to provide easy access to the full range of statistics and information produced by more than 70 U.S. Federal Government agencies for public use.
ANY QUESTIONS?
i asked how can shipping jobs over seas to cheap foreign labor & then inviting in cheap foreign labor help my wages, benefits, over crowded schools, roads, hospitals, prisons, etc, etc?
Or are you dodging that question?
it is time to set aside our differences, don't let the politicians divide us with wedge issues. come together not as republicans or democrats but as Americans...no more broken homes, no more broken families, no more broken communities, no more broken borders, no more broken government...lets vote them all out!
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 10, 2008, 03:36:25 AM
Quote
it is time to set aside our differences, don't let the politicians divide us with wedge issues. come together not as republicans or democrats but as Americans...no more broken homes, no more broken families, no more broken communities, no more broken borders, no more broken government...lets vote them all out!
We tried that and all we got were a bunch of Democrat shills who want a new lower class to entitle.
Post by: JDTHEWOLF on March 10, 2008, 10:57:46 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on March 10, 2008, 11:21:09 AM
What do you honestly think the founding fathers would do if they were able to rise from the grave RIGHT NOW?...they would, in my opinion, form a militia to revolt. I wonder if they would be labeled as terrorists?...probably.
And your point?
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 10, 2008, 01:02:23 PM
Post by: seeker_two on March 10, 2008, 06:11:43 PM
Well, I have a question. How has an immigration thread gone on this long? They haven't been very long-lived lately.
I can't believe you would ask that.....
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 10, 2008, 06:13:23 PM
Post by: seeker_two on March 10, 2008, 06:18:13 PM
OK. Why? Wait, is it my fault?
Of course.....that's the party line.....
Post by: BridgeWalker on March 10, 2008, 08:09:55 PM