Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on August 02, 2005, 06:38:07 PM
All these folks talking about how they LOVE what they do, recounting the virtues of seeing the sun rise in one state and set in another...
The other day, I'm seeing this Pat Croce thing about some woman who's really unhappy about having to do housework, since she says she is not very good at it and can AVERAGE 300k/year as a software consultant/VP of IT development. She mentioned there were years she had made a half million in a year.
I'm looking around my area...BEAUTIFUL part of the country. Southern, rural, lake area, hunting/fishing/boating paradise.
Nothing you'd be proud to OWN house-wise on the lake goes for less than 250-300k.
I make 50k/year and maybe another couple thou on the side cleaning computer viruses. The wife brings in another 10-15k a year doing whatever suits her part-time.
Grass is always greener. I'm in the throes of knee surgery recovery, cabin fever, too much TV and too much time to think.
But it seems like there can't possibly be THAT many doctors, lawyers, and C-level execs to fill up all these high-dollar houses on the lake.
I'm trying to save for a downpayment for a house, and yep, the 401k is funded and some bucks go into the company discount stock plan. But I come up dry at the end of almost every month! Geez, we drive old/paid-for cars, rent videos at home, and it just runs out like sand through a screen.
I'm really not such a hopeless whiner. I guess it's just a phase I'm going through, wanting to be able to look at my life with satisfaction and fulfillment.
Got great kids, a great wife, just no money and not much fun. Maybe I need another hobby? Become a travel writer or ferry RV's across the country for some big dealership or make a couple of big coke runs from Miami to Peoria in my hopelessly suburban minivan and write a best-seller about it, or buy a piece of land (can be had cheap down here) and build a hay-bale house or a teepee kit or and underground house or...or...Dios mio, I'm going to bed.
Anyone have pithy wisdom to share that will ease my middle-aged, middle-income mediocrity-induced angst?
Post by: Sindawe on August 02, 2005, 07:05:58 PM
In my days of toiling in the Bloodmines of Boulder (biotech), I would think longingly of working in IT. No standing on concrete floors for 10-14 hours a day, no burns from exposed steam lines, no exposure to nasty chemicals that burn or sufficate, etc etc etc.
Now that I'm in IT, I sometimes long for the days in the Bloodmines, recalling fondly the camaraderie with the coworkers, the challenge of manually running pH and air control when the exhaust filters on the bioreacor plugged up, the thrill of working on the cutting edge of technology.
Then I dream about working in the Bloodmines, or otherwise come to my senses. Sure, crashing domain controllers don't have the visceral excitement of watching 1000 lbs of stainless steel spinning at 7500 rpm become unbalanced and attempt to wrench itself out of the floor for a short stroll, but flacky routers don't bathe one in 30% ammonium hydroxide either.
Post by: Greg Levy on August 02, 2005, 07:23:32 PM
Quote:
But it seems like there can't possibly be THAT many doctors, lawyers, and C-level execs to fill up all these high-dollar houses on the lake.
And there aren't! Around here, where the main employer is the USN and Puget Sound Shipyard, 90% of the new housing developments that are going in are 2500SF, 4 car garage monstrocities, starting at around 400K. Now, working for The Yard, and having BEEN a sailor, I know what both groups make, and I KNOW there is no real market around here for 400K houses...but they are still selling!
They are selling to folks who hope that with the way the Real Estate Markwet is going, if they can scrimp and save, and make mortgage payments for a year, then their 400K house will be worth 500K, and they can sell and make money off the deal. Sooner or later, some very unlucky folks are going to get stuck with a lot of houses they CAN't afford.
Take me for instance: bought a house alst September. Did all math and decided that $1200-1300 a month was what I could afford. Translated to a 180K-200K house.
When we went in and started talking to Mortgage Brokers and Real Estate Agents...they took one look at my debt to income ratio and started trying to talk me into a $300,000 house...no matter that I didn't think there was anyway in Heck I could afford the 1800-1900 a month that would have resulted from that purchase.
Anyway...
You are doing things the right way, with the 401K maxed out and the stock options. It might not always be the exciting way, but it is the Right Way.
greg
Post by: mtnbkr on August 03, 2005, 01:15:58 AM
We have the same situation here in Northern Va. Lots of folks are relying on interest only loans to get by until their house appreciates some and they can trade up. Not me, I bought low and will stay in this house until I leave the area or win the lottery (which means I'll likely leave anyway). At least my wife gets to stay at home with our daughter (something she wants to do as well).
Chris
Post by: BobCat on August 03, 2005, 05:15:00 AM
Regards,
Andrew
_____________________________________________________________________
THANKFUL
FOR THE WIFE
WHO SAYS IT'S HOT DOGS TONIGHT,
BECAUSE SHE IS HOME WITH ME,
AND NOT OUT WITH SOMEONE ELSE.
FOR THE HUSBAND
WHO IS ON THE SOFA
BEING A COUCH POTATO,
BECAUSE HE IS HOME WITH ME
AND NOT OUT AT THE BARS.
FOR THE TEENAGER
WHO IS COMPLAINING ABOUT DOING DISHES
BECAUSE THAT MEANS SHE IS AT HOME,
NOT ON THE STREETS.
FOR THE TAXES
THAT I PAY
BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT
I AM EMPLOYED.
FOR THE MESS
TO CLEAN AFTER A PARTY
BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT I HAVE
BEEN SURROUNDED BY FRIENDS.
FOR THE CLOTHES
THAT FIT A LITTLE TOO SNUG BECAUSE IT MEANS
I HAVE ENOUGH TO EAT.
FOR MY SHADOW
THAT WATCHES ME WORK
BECAUSE IT MEANS
I AM OUT IN THE SUNSHINE.
FOR A LAWN
THAT NEEDS MOWING,
WINDOWS THAT NEED CLEANING,
AND GUTTERS THAT NEED FIXING
BECAUSE IT MEANS I HAVE A HOME.
FOR ALL THE COMPLAINING
I HEAR ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT
BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT
WE HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
FOR THE PARKING SPOT
I FIND AT THE FAR END OF THE PARKING LOT
BECAUSE IT MEANS I AM CAPABLE OF WALKING
AND THAT I HAVE BEEN
BLESSED WITH TRANSPORTATION.
FOR MY HUGE HEATING BILL
BECAUSE IT MEANS
I AM WARM.
FOR THE LADY
BEHIND ME IN CHURCH
THAT SINGS OFF KEY
BECAUSE IT MEANS
THAT I CAN HEAR.
FOR THE PILE
OF LAUNDR! Y AND IRONING
BECAUSE IT MEANS
I HAVE CLOTHES TO WEAR.
FOR WEARINESS
AND ACHING MUSCLES
AT THE END OF THE DAY
BECAUSE IT MEANS
I HAVE BEEN
CAPABLE OF WORKING HARD.
FOR THE ALARM
THAT GOES OFF
IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS
BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT I AM ALIVE.
AND FINALLY.
FOR TOO MUCH E-MAIL
BECAUSE IT MEANS I HAVE
FRIENDS WHO ARE THINKING OF ME.
SEND THIS TO SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT.
I JUST DID.
Post by: Chris on August 03, 2005, 06:03:11 AM
And, add to that two kids, the costs of those kids, daycare that's worth a darn, and you can watch our money fly out the window.
This is why I like 9mm so much. I can afford a box or two every couple of months...
Post by: charby on August 03, 2005, 06:54:48 AM
Oh yeah, grass does look greener on the other side, but thats just crab grass and water grass that hasn't browned from the lack of water. Been there done that, I think I'd rather live more secure with little pocessions than be in debt to my eyeballs.
Charby
Post by: garrettwc on August 03, 2005, 07:31:53 AM
Post by: Jamisjockey on August 03, 2005, 08:31:11 AM
Post by: mtnbkr on August 03, 2005, 08:43:09 AM
Chris
Post by: El Tejon on August 03, 2005, 08:59:26 AM
Chris, not true, I am, but I'm moving soon and need to pay it down! Mortgage is enemy. Destroy the enemy!
FF, it can always be WORSE. You'll do great. Remember, this is America, the money is out there!
Post by: ...has left the building. on August 03, 2005, 09:37:15 AM
Quote
Anyone have pithy wisdom to share that will ease my middle-aged, middle-income mediocrity-induced angst?
Kind of weird because I was listening to the song "Simple Man" when I clicked on the thread. All Americans are rich on a relative scale. True wealth lies in the people around you, the relationships you forge with them and the kind of man you are. You're already rich brotha, "Got great kids, a great wife, just no money and not much fun." You don't need cash to have fun; good conversation w/ your wife, playing outside with the kids (when your knee heals), etc. Creativity and interaction are far more entertaining to me than "events" such as going on lavish vacations or buying Super Bowl tickets.
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 03, 2005, 09:41:45 AM
I am on the other end of the spectrum. I have have a 25 year old 1600 sq ft 3 bedroom home in an average neighborhood, I drive a modest 4 year old car (Crown Victoria) and have scrimped, saved, and invested so that I can A) be as close to debt-free as possible, and B) can retire while I am still young and active enough to enjoy it. I just added up my total debt. Everything - mortgage, car, and credit card balances - adds up to barely $17,000. Reduce that out of my assets and my net value is well over $100,000. Compared to 99.9% of society I am in GREAT shape, but it still gives me the screaming willies to be in debt at all.
Brad
Post by: mtnbkr on August 03, 2005, 09:43:19 AM
That said, however, a friend of mine did use the considerable appreciation on his house to pay cash for his current one in WV (with land and a pool as well). Unfortunately, his company screwed him and decided to NOT let him telecommute 3 weeks out of the month like they originally promised. He's now saddled with a 2+ hour commute each way.
Chris
Post by: crt360 on August 03, 2005, 10:06:57 AM
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on August 03, 2005, 11:46:24 AM
I am very blessed, yet happiness is elusive.
Everyone fights their own battles; I'd rather have a good foundation and middle-class trappings than a pretty facade and tattered family dynamics. Few can truly achieve both; I guess that's the reference to the camel and the eye of the needle.
Peace for today. One breath at a time.
Post by: The Rabbi on August 03, 2005, 11:53:55 AM
My favorite story involves a seminar they gave for decamillionaires (net worth over $10M). They staged them at fancy hotel meeting rooms and they had fine wine and pate and stuff--what they thought millionaires would want.
The first guy made tons of money on commercial real estate around NYC. He came in and they offered him some fancy Beaujolais. He told them he didnt drink much wine. He drank Scotch and two kinds of beer: Budweiser and Free!
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on August 03, 2005, 12:34:55 PM
But on the bright side, our old house and farm are a lifetime project. We sold our tri-level in the suburbs because we liked this place so much. Our vehicles are well maintained and paid for. We have NO credit card debt, and our house will be paid off in about seven years (thirteen years early). I have a nice collection of guns, and nice collection of John Deere tractors.
The way I look at the 6,000 square foot houses my neighbors have, somebody has to heat, cool, and clean all that space. Plus, they're all on tiny lots. I think I enjoy my 35 acres of river bottom more than I would enjoy a huge house and tiny yard.
Post by: Art Eatman on August 03, 2005, 12:42:20 PM
When I first married, back in 1961, we didn't have the proverbial pot nor window. Yet, we had just as much fun then as later on when the billfold got fatter. Heck, maybeso even more! We just "made do" and went on down the road...
I've fought hard against frou-frou debt. If I could see a profit, I was happy to use debt as a tool. But I've never casually used the credit card but for on-the-road expenses.
If the money doesn't last, if there's "too much month at the end of the money", the advice has been around for longer than I have: Work out a budget. Separate "gotta pay" expenses from "walking around spending".
And stay in that sucker 'til you're outta debt.
Art
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 03, 2005, 01:42:11 PM
Anyway, I see how much people are refinancing their homes for. It's frightening how many people are borrowing close to the full value of their homes. The median price for a house here in Milwaukee is about $150,000 or so. I see many refinances come through at $125,000.
Out in the suburbs there are some $300,000 to $700,000 homes. The other day I saw a refinance come through for over $500,000.
It made me sick last year to have to do a refinance on our house, but the amount was modest, and our principal balance is still less than the price of many new cars.
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on August 03, 2005, 01:50:25 PM
I guess that's where I got it. My dad's parents left the drylands in about 1934 to find work. (My dad was born in 1927)
Dad hit this town in 1948 with a 19 year old pregnant wife in tow. He had a 1935 Ford and enough savings to buy a ten foot house trailer. He found work at the steel mill intending to work the summer and go back to college in Boulder. Never happened. He worked at the steel mill for 35 years, built three of his own houses, raised five kids, and always scrimped and saved. Always budgeted every penny, and mom never had to work. The depression taught him that.
He never made a car or house payment in his life. He once borrowed $2500 to buy five acres, but paid it off quickly. The kids I went to school with thought we were rich, because we lived in a big fancy house. But dad paid for every board and brick using profits from his first two houses, and built it himself. When he finished it, he owned it.
He bought his first ever brand new pickup in 1985, when he was 58 years old, and a new van a couple of years later. He has since sworn off of new vehicles (they still have the pickup and van, along with a 1999 Lincoln).
Point is, just by hard work and smart money management, my parents are mildly wealthy people now.
Post by: grampster on August 03, 2005, 02:08:46 PM
I left LE to become a peddler, a seller of insurance products. Talk about a change. You eat only if you sell. But that was a motivator, to make me do what I needed to do to prosper. I didscovered that some risk taking and self motivation brought some rewards; more possessions and a better lifestyle.
But as I grew older I began to see that those folks that I thought were worthy of my envy, (I've never really envied anyone, actually, but I needed some kind of descriptive adjective) had many of the same problems that I did, sometimes evern more. I discovered that my possessions were not what they seemed. I learned that reaching a goal sometimes did not provide the satisfaction that I thought that it would. I came to understand the relativity of ones position. At some point one needs to look around and realize that one is really blessed in many ways, but we don't stop long enough to realize it.
I think that those folks who are the eternal optimists, always happy, successful, having many possessions often seem to get slapped in the face with reality. It seems that their fall is much longer and the landing much harder than for those folks who valued their families, their friends, who might be considered to have litte.
In my view, real happiness is more of a spiritual thing, fed and nurtured by a firm conviction in the fact that I am a unique created being, loved and looked after by my Creator. I stumbled across an Old Testament writing in the Book of Jeremiah that became one of my favorite sayings that when I'm blue about something, tends to buck me up. 17th Chapter, verses 5-8 if anyone is interested.
I think each person sort of gravitates toward what makes them content. Happiness is an elusive thing that none of us really caputres, imho. Like fairness, what the heck is happiness anyway? One man's castle is another man's prison. I know a guy who lives in a 5000 sq ft home with an indoor pool etc etc and 10 million bucks invested safely. But, he very rarely is able to get out of bed because of a serious back problem that is not fixable. Contentedness is a better place to be. It always allows the acceptance of what we have tempered by the knowledge that we could improve our lot if we really wanted to, but knowing that we really don't have to.
Just my $.02.
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on August 03, 2005, 03:08:06 PM
FYI --
Jeremiah 17:5-8: Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD.
Jer 17:6 "For he will be like a bush in the desert And will not see when prosperity comes, But will live in stony wastes in the wilderness, A land of salt without inhabitant.
Jer 17:7 "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD.
Jer 17:8 "For he will be like a tree planted by the water, That extends its roots by a stream And will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought Nor cease to yield fruit.
Post by: Guest on August 03, 2005, 04:06:58 PM
Ah, well..the trade off was worth it. If I died tomorrow, I'd still say I got my money's worth of life.
Post by: jefnvk on August 03, 2005, 04:22:20 PM
Post by: Art Eatman on August 03, 2005, 05:49:57 PM
If I were single and just starting out, I just might finance a 24- or 28-foot travel trailer. $150/mo plus lot and utilities, if there's a decent job nearby, and debt service on student loans is much easier. And if the job plays out, moving to a new job is easy--and you're always sleeping in the same bed.
Side benefit: Learning neatness discipline.
Art
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 03, 2005, 05:53:28 PM
My wife keeps the list of all of the bills due for every month in a bound notebook. It goes back to the early 1980's, when I was really just getting started in my career.
Last night we were looking through those old pages, and we were astounded at how much we were paying toward credit cards and other loans.
If we'd had the wisdom to not buy what we could not afford at that very moment, and instead invested that money, we'd be retired by now.
There's folks like me that have had to learn the hard way. You have the benefit of the advice of many people here who have been down that road already. Use that advice.
Post by: brimic on August 04, 2005, 12:45:54 AM
We want to be a millionaire couple by the time we are in our 50s.
We have about 20-25 years left to accomplis it.
We both put 10% of our income rightof the top into our 401Ks at work.
We max out our Roth contributions every year.
We carry no debt except our mortgage.
We already have the house we have owned for 5 years 1/4 of the way paid off, and plan to have it payed off in the next 15 years.
We put a minimum of 25% of our income into savings, which we roll into our brokerage account 2 or 3 times a year.
Our bank account seems to grow at a rediculously fast rate. we splurged last year and bought a new 4x4 for winter and family trips, I drive an old beater pickup truck that I have to use a bungee cord to hold the driver's door shut on, my wife's commuter car is 8 years old as well. A year after paying for the new truck in cash, we already have more in our account than we did before we bought it.
We do all of out own home improvements- sweat equity. We are also building a vacation home in Upper michigan, again doing it with sweat equity.
My wife often complains that the neighbors appear to have more 'stuff' than us, nicer clothes, expensive motorcycles, boats, cars, etc. I tell her that they only appear to have more money and we may be the richest people on the block.
Between the 2 of us we make around 110K a year. Not exactly wealthy for the area we live in, but very respectable.
I had a bad day of work the other day and did a job search for something else. I like my job, but i often find myself thinking that I might like to do something else better. I came away a little depressed because if I were to start over in a different career, I would take a substantial pay cut, the only jobs that seem to pay nearly as much are engineering jobs and experienced management jobs- I don't have an engineering degree, and only have a few years of relatively low level management experience.
Post by: Waitone on August 04, 2005, 03:29:34 AM
I, too, went through the debt lifestyle thingy. Large income, status, self-importance, etc. But then things begin to happen and its one disaster after another disaster after another disaster. Pretty soon you are sitting around with your pot and that's about all you have. Then you find out there are things infinitely worse than losing all your possessions. Suddenly everything you worked for, everything you believed, everything you valued turns into dust. It is then you have a clear understanding of what is important and what is folly. I would give everything I ever owned or will ever own just to hug a little boy one last time.
Yea, things are important. Family, children, and friends is what is important. Concentrate therein.
Post by: cfabe on August 04, 2005, 03:48:11 AM
Thanks for the advice guys.
Post by: K Frame on August 04, 2005, 05:19:39 AM
I now have nearly $350k equity.
I'd LOVE to get a bigger house (I love big houses), but McMansions that were going for $300 just 4 years ago are now over $1 million, for the same damned house.
Post by: Art Eatman on August 04, 2005, 07:17:46 AM
So, over the years, I got damned good at automotive stuff. I'd buy a "boogered" car for under Bank Loan. I'd borrow Bank Loan against the title. The cash difference paid for necessary parts. Do whatever repairs were needed. Drive it and de-bug it, and after six months or so, sell it for wholesale.I learned carpentry, plumbing and electrical wiring. And then how to do asbestos shingles. My engineering work taught me a bunch about structural stuff, as well as concrete.
None of this was overnight; no "instant gratification". Just plugging along through the years.
My opinion: Anybody can do it. All you need is the Want To.
In 1992/1993 I put it all together and built my own house. I hauled trailer loads of lumber, pipe, windows and wire and fixtures to the site. I did hire the "basic box" work, to my plans and specs. After the drying in, I had two guys help with the sheetrock ceiling, and one guy and I did all the panelling, insulating and wiring. I hung all the doors and did all the plumbing and cabinetry. My wife did all the staining. The total on-site time for me was some five months; about a month for my wife.
I gotta admit I did beat my left thumb plumb into submission.
14 acres, 1,400 sq ft, garage, water system, all furniture and furnishings, carpet, etc: $33/sq-ft. Plus my and BossLady's labor. And a bit of scar tissue...
IOW, never quit learning.
Art
I guess it all depends on what you want, and how bad you want it.
Post by: Chris on August 04, 2005, 08:42:43 AM
Iwas raised in much the same way, meaning you only pay people to do that which you cannot do yourself. So, last wekend, I got my butt up on a ladder and painted all of the wood trim on my house. Neighbors said they hired a guy the year previous that did the work for $150. I did it myself for about 1/3 of that, spent on paint and supplies. Plus, I have the satisfaction of knowing I did it myself.
Lerned to fix a toilet's guts when one broke on a Saturday night. Built the deck on the back of my house. Built the kids' swing set.
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on August 04, 2005, 09:21:10 AM
Art-- good advice as always, and I especially liked the thought just starting out with the travel trailer and DIY personal responsibility.
Waitone-- whew. Pulls it all into perspective REAL fast: "Then you find out there are things infinitely worse than losing all your possessions. Suddenly everything you worked for, everything you believed, everything you valued turns into dust. It is then you have a clear understanding of what is important and what is folly. I would give everything I ever owned or will ever own just to hug a little boy one last time.
Yea, things are important. Family, children, and friends is what is important. Concentrate therein."
Post by: Guest on August 04, 2005, 01:00:08 PM
Maybe I shouldn't have had these darned kids, especially that one when I was 18!
Oh, wait..I didn't.
Whatever..money is money. Some things are worth more than money. My kiddos for one..my freedom for another.
Since I'll never be able to retire, I'll stand by my retirement plan..as soon as the kids are both in college, I start drinking, driving fast and chasing young guys.
Post by: Art Eatman on August 04, 2005, 01:35:49 PM
Art
Post by: Guest on August 04, 2005, 02:21:06 PM
Post by: thebaldguy on August 04, 2005, 02:55:57 PM
Many will lose their homes in the future. Mortage defaults/home forclosures are way up. Bankruptcies are so common that our congress had to pass laws tightening requirements. Nobody pays cash for anything anymore. Put it on the card and pay later with interest. It always catches up, sooner or later...
It's sad to see so many people in the 25-40 age group have more money in their tattoos than in a savings/retirement plan. These are the people who will demand the government take care of them in retirement because they wasted a lifetime and money.
Avoid debt. It is a slow painful financial death. Live within your means.
Post by: Standing Wolf on August 04, 2005, 05:24:01 PM
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on August 05, 2005, 07:13:46 AM
And dumb to do, though most of us fall into it at one point or another, until we wise up.
Post by: K Frame on August 05, 2005, 08:14:32 AM
Of course the man hunt for the "Mad Gutter of Pennsylvania" went on for many years...
Post by: USP45usp on August 05, 2005, 09:05:07 AM
).What great advise.
Wayne
Post by: Guest on August 13, 2005, 05:03:30 PM
They taught me the important stuff-
How to buck up and do what I had to do when the doing was not easy.
How to deny instant gratification for future reward.
How a stiff upper lip IS important- sometimes you just have to bury your dead and get on with life.
How to do with out if you can't pay cash.
How to fix or build it yourself.
My big lesson of finance-- We are told thru advertising that we have to have "stuff" to be happy, so we borrow and borrow to get the "stuff" we need till we have to work so hard to afford it that we no longer have time to enjoy the "stuff" we were told would bring us happiness. -- So don't borrow for consumer pleasure- save it for an investment.
Post by: Preacherman on August 13, 2005, 05:52:30 PM
So, if you're healthy, be thankful, and look after yourself! If I'd injured myself on my own time, I'd have been bankrupt and on the street over a year ago. As it was, Workers Comp paid my way for quite a while, and also covered my medical costs - but your injury might not be on the job. I suggest some decent insurance against such injury and loss of income might be very worthwhile.
I'm not complaining, mind you. I'm sorry that this had to happen, but I still have my mental faculties, and being in the line of work that I am, I'll trust God to help me find the additional work and income I need to make ends meet. I truly have a lot to be thankful for, compared to some who've suffered similar injuries and are bed-bound for the rest of their lives!
Post by: Smoke on August 14, 2005, 03:42:30 AM
Most aren't pretty. Often the higher wage earners are the overspenders. Betting on tomorrow, but there is always one more toy to buy, buying on credit, living off credit cards.
I worked many years for not much money. Cowboying is not the career path to take for great wealth. I did that until I was 30....then wife decided she wanted her own wall to drive a nail in....not a company house.
We never use credit cards except as convienence, pay it off each month. We make more than the monthly paymnet on the house, and put tax refunds, year end bonuses, etc into debt service. 401k is maxed out (20% goes in mine, 15% in hers) Several investments draft out of our checking account around payday.
My pickup was bought used and is now 6 years old (and paid for) We bought the wife the very first new vehicle we ever owned this year (I'm 40, she's 41) took advantage of the GM Employee pricing deal or she would have had used. Her car we sold was 10 years old and had 150K on it.
We were married 10 years before we had kids. Built a house 3 years ago. Was able to get a bit more house by doing a lot of work ourselves. I plan to die in this house.
I basically work two jobs, the wife is employed, we are top wage earners for our area but our area is rural so incomes wouldn't impress many. Beides the banking gig, I run cattle, not a lot of income all the time but has tax advantages. ALso always looking for other income opportunities. I occasionally buy and sell undervalued real estate, vehicles, and equipment. One must find money out here in the sticks where you can.
Save all the money you can. Stay away from debt. As Art indicated using debt for a tool when you can see a profit is OK, but if you see that profit, the bank won't lend you the money if you're close to bankrupt already. = Lost profit.
Smoke