Post by: The Annoyed Man on March 30, 2008, 09:46:51 AM
I need advice. My brother has just gotten pulled over for speeding over 100 mph in CA while driving from LA to SF.
You don't need to tell me how stupid that is, because my family has already screamed at him about it.
The problem is, this in conjunction with something else stupid he did a few months ago will surely make getting into law school more difficult as you often are required to disclose your traffic tickets in your law school applications (I know I did). I don't want to disclose in this post what else he did a few months ago, but suffice it to say it was massively stupid and got him suspended from school.
He really can't afford this ticket on his record because of this. He was an idiot, but I'd hate to see his future dissolve away. To be more specific, he is an anti-gun jerk who also is extremely liberal and cocky. He pisses me off daily when he is around. Even so though, I can only imagine how terrified he is right now afraid he has totally screwed his future. It is very upsetting to the whole family.
Any advice you can offer on how to deal with this ticket is appreciated. We know he needs to get an attorney and are working on finding a good one. Any other advice is appreciated.
Thanks.
- .Cheese.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 30, 2008, 09:52:35 AM
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(could a mod please change my nick here to .Cheese. while we're at it?)
Go to your profile, and click on Account Related Settings. You can change it yourself.
Sorry I can't help with the bigger problem.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on March 30, 2008, 09:55:35 AM
This ticket is disturbing. I mean, I've sped, and admit that I was stupid for doing so. It's been a while though since I've gotten a ticket as I really make an effort to be a safe driver. Even so, my tickets were pretty minor compared to the ticket my brother just got.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 30, 2008, 10:15:06 AM
or as the saying goes don't do the crime if you can't do the time
Post by: ilbob on March 30, 2008, 10:22:05 AM
Post by: Fly320s on March 30, 2008, 10:22:39 AM
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I need advice. My brother has just gotten pulled over for speeding over 100 mph in CA while driving from LA to SF.
Tell him to plead Nolo Contedre (No contest), and pay the fine. He was speeding, wasn't he?
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novel concept dujour personal responsibility see also accountability
or as the saying goes don't do the crime if you can't do the time
or as the saying goes don't do the crime if you can't do the time
I agree. That is part of growing up.
Sorry, .Cheese., but your brother commited a crime (I assume, based on what you've written). If he wants to be an attorney, the first thing he needs to learn is that no one is above the law. Some lawyers take longer to figure that out than others <cough> Spitzer<cough>.
Post by: Bogie on March 30, 2008, 10:32:19 AM
A lot of them will let you cop to a lesser offense, and charge you a big ol' fine... My attorney sister used to have a lot of problems with loud mufflers...
Post by: The Annoyed Man on March 30, 2008, 11:28:00 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 30, 2008, 12:03:48 PM
Post by: bedlamite on March 30, 2008, 12:22:55 PM
Any way you look at it, this is going to get expensive. Since it's over 100, he's probably looking at a suspended license and maybe a reckless driving charge. Time for him to lawyer up and start thinking about a different career.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 30, 2008, 01:07:09 PM
thanks. I did that. I'm so used to other forums not allowing you to do that.
This ticket is disturbing. I mean, I've sped, and admit that I was stupid for doing so. It's been a while though since I've gotten a ticket as I really make an effort to be a safe driver. Even so, my tickets were pretty minor compared to the ticket my brother just got.
This ticket is disturbing. I mean, I've sped, and admit that I was stupid for doing so. It's been a while though since I've gotten a ticket as I really make an effort to be a safe driver. Even so, my tickets were pretty minor compared to the ticket my brother just got.
Actually, he got off easy.
Here, 100mph doesn't get you a ticket, it gets you put across the hood of the cruiser. That's considered a vehicle out of control, and it'd be impounded, and you'd be in court on a serious charge.
Also, what was the speed limit? That's important. That speed in a 75mph with other drivers all doing 80 or more is not as serious as that speed in a 50mph area.
Another career might be good anyway. Do you really want another antigun lawyer making life hell for some poor person who had to use a firearm in self defense? We've got enough of those.
Post by: El Tejon on March 30, 2008, 01:16:13 PM
I'd get an attorney ASAP and maybe, just maybe, you can sometimes talk the prosecution out of going foreward (sometimes, not often, but sometimes).
Does CA have a Withhold Prosecution/Deferred Ajudication/Court Supervision? Check into that after you find out what, if anything, he will be prosecuted for.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 30, 2008, 01:38:26 PM
Post by: BridgeRunner on March 30, 2008, 01:48:48 PM
1) Bar admission is determined based on current character and fitness. Pre-law-school wrongs are weighed less heavily, particularly if the person has demonstrated substantial correction of his errors.
2) Some law schools don't focus on that stuff as a major determination for admission. Law schools want people who will create a good, smart, diverse, creative, etc. student body. They also want people who can pass the bar and get good jobs, thus keeping their ratings high or improving their ratings/reputation. Small run ins with the law may not be a major factor. This of course depends on the school.
3) Fudging the details of the incident *at all* on his law school application could be disastrous.
4) If all else fails, Cooley Law is the law school version of an open-admissions school. You got the grades and LSAT scores, you're in. It's also a wash-out school with a notoriously difficult program and 50%+ attrition rate. I am a student there because they were local, offered me a full scholarship (my LSATs were pretty decent), and offer very flexible scheduling.
It can be a good choice for someone with a legal skeleton in their closet who does, ultimately have what it takes to get through a challenging program and then convince the character and fitness committee that he has repented of his wild ways.
Just a thought. I've been very happy with the quality of my education at Cooley thus far. It is a strong program. You do get a lot of disappearing classmates, more than at most schools. Lots of people who get in don't make it. Those who do are pretty good lawyers.
Post by: Bigjake on March 30, 2008, 02:56:59 PM
Post by: BridgeRunner on March 30, 2008, 03:05:25 PM
A little personal responsibility is the cure for that liberal stupidness.
Yes, but when one does a serious stupid, he doesn't then spend the rest of his life hanging his head in humiliation. There are gonna be consequences. He's gonna have to pay a lawyer not only now, but when he applies for bar admission. He's gonna have to proactively show increasing responsibility. He is gonna have consequences for many years.
But he also has to move on and pick the pieces as best he can. What's the point of kicking a guy when he's down? Especially when you only have access to his brother?
Post by: Bigjake on March 30, 2008, 04:37:41 PM
A little personal responsibility is the cure for that liberal stupidness.
Yes, but when one does a serious stupid, he doesn't then spend the rest of his life hanging his head in humiliation. There are gonna be consequences. He's gonna have to pay a lawyer not only now, but when he applies for bar admission. He's gonna have to proactively show increasing responsibility. He is gonna have consequences for many years.
But he also has to move on and pick the pieces as best he can. What's the point of kicking a guy when he's down? Especially when you only have access to his brother?
Been there, done that. I don't mean to kick him while he's down so much, but you know damned well when you're doing something that stupid. I've been there, and been nailed for it. Best to get a Tilecrawler and hope he plays golf with the judge.
Post by: Ned Hamford on March 30, 2008, 07:38:53 PM
No tickets of 100 mph on my record, but I wouldn't worry to much about it. We let murderers become lawyers in NY, speeding on an interstate isn't likely to become a life shattering mistake.
Post by: Brad Johnson on March 31, 2008, 10:49:45 AM
Then backhand the crap out of him and tell him to get his head out and grow up a little.
Brad
Post by: Regolith on March 31, 2008, 11:22:38 AM
Post by: The Annoyed Man on March 31, 2008, 02:07:41 PM
My brother may have his flaws, and to be honest he pisses me off and I really am not particularly fond of him, but still I'm not going to throw him to the dogs because he did something stupid.
Post by: Mabs2 on March 31, 2008, 02:25:46 PM
some of you are pretty harsh.
My brother may have his flaws, and to be honest he pisses me off and I really am not particularly fond of him, but still I'm not going to throw him to the dogs because he did something stupid.
I agree...a crazy speeding ticket is hardly a disownable offense...
My brother may have his flaws, and to be honest he pisses me off and I really am not particularly fond of him, but still I'm not going to throw him to the dogs because he did something stupid.
Post by: Balog on March 31, 2008, 02:32:50 PM
some of you are pretty harsh.
My brother may have his flaws, and to be honest he pisses me off and I really am not particularly fond of him, but still I'm not going to throw him to the dogs because he did something stupid.
My brother may have his flaws, and to be honest he pisses me off and I really am not particularly fond of him, but still I'm not going to throw him to the dogs because he did something stupid.
I suppose it depends on how you view family. I have a very high opinion about familial obligations; however, I also have a very high opinion of accountability. You say he "did something bad enough to be suspended." I'm personally interested in what that is. I love my family, but if one of them abused their wife, or manufactured meth, or stole identities, or drove drunk, or anything else mala in se I'd turn their ass in faster than I typed this. Just because you love someone doesn't mean they shouldn't have to pay for their crimes.
And God help me I just can't give a damn about anti-gun liberals getting screwed by their own stupidity. Anyone who wants to deprive me of my freedom, and is actively working towards that end, deserve everything they get.
Post by: Tuco on March 31, 2008, 05:40:12 PM
About 18 years ago, I found myself standing before a judge. Last week I received a phone call from a hiring office on the west coast, wanting full details of my offense.
My offense was a thoughtless assault against an innocent individual that was perpetrated by a drunk (me).
I asked if we were being recorded.
No.
"Well you've got the rap sheet in front of you?"
"No, not yet. We'll order a background check only on the final candidate."
I did my best to diplomatically explain the true circumstances of the crime and my life since then. As I was blindsided by the nature of the call, it took about 5 minutes on the phone just to get my mind around the idea that I had to relive this period of hell.
After a two minute dissertation, the lady said "Well, you sound like a reasonable risk, If this is the truth, it will never be discussed again. Thank You."
Two hours later I received a call from professional staff. I have an interview on Wednesday in Eugene OR.
Please no hairy armpit jokes. Hippies I can handle.
The truth rules, and it never changes.
Accountability has it rewards - Spiritual peace.
Now, tell us your brother's previous offense!!!
Post by: Antibubba on March 31, 2008, 09:18:47 PM
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The problem is, this in conjunction with something else stupid he did a few months ago will surely make getting into law school more difficult as you often are required to disclose your traffic tickets in your law school applications (I know I did). I don't want to disclose in this post what else he did a few months ago, but suffice it to say it was massively stupid and got him suspended from school.
He really can't afford this ticket on his record because of this. He was an idiot, but I'd hate to see his future dissolve away. To be more specific, he is an anti-gun jerk who also is extremely liberal and cocky. He pisses me off daily when he is around. Even so though, I can only imagine how terrified he is right now afraid he has totally screwed his future. It is very upsetting to the whole family.
He really can't afford this ticket on his record because of this. He was an idiot, but I'd hate to see his future dissolve away. To be more specific, he is an anti-gun jerk who also is extremely liberal and cocky. He pisses me off daily when he is around. Even so though, I can only imagine how terrified he is right now afraid he has totally screwed his future. It is very upsetting to the whole family.
I too am big on the personal responsibility thing. You can only hope that he is terrified right now, because until he learns about accountability, he isn't going to get anywhere. Frankly, if he's bright enough to get through law school and foolish enough to have little regard for the consequences of his actions, he's not the kind of lawyer we need more of.
bridgewalker said:
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If all else fails, Cooley Law is the law school version of an open-admissions school. You got the grades and LSAT scores, you're in. It's also a wash-out school with a notoriously difficult program and 50%+ attrition rate. I am a student there because they were local, offered me a full scholarship (my LSATs were pretty decent), and offer very flexible scheduling.
California has law schools that .cheese.'s brother can get into short of a murder conviction. In addition to ABA accredited schools, there is a group that don't meet ABA accreditation standards but meet those of the California Bar Association. If the brother intends to work only in California he'd be fine. There are also a few schools that don't meet CBA standards either; I took a few classes at one, and it's real street law at its leanest. A lot of the graduates are in it for the "J.D." after their name, to enhance their current positions (a lot of them are state workers), and don't even try to take the Bar. Those that intend to take the Bar and who do pass it (California is said to have the toughest Bar exam in the country) can probably open their own firms, but are unlikely to be hired by an established firm until they've proven themselves.
So why would anyone go to one of these schools? Well, as I said, the CBA-approved schools are good enough for most in-state practices. A CBA school might not have an esteemed faculty, and the law library might not have enough dusty tomes. Most of the instructors are successful lawyers who actually practice when they aren't teaching. The other advantage is that a law degree can be had for around $40,000, which means if you don't want to have to work for a soulless corporate firm to pay off your loans, or your focus is on something less profitable, you have a choice. See Lincoln Law School for an example. As for one of the completely unaccredited schools, see UNCs Lorenzo Patino School of Law. At $2,610 a semester, it costs half the tuition at Lincoln, and your entire degree will cost less than 1L at just about any ABA school.
Me, I just took a few law classes for the fun of it.
All of which is a pretty big detour from .cheese.bro's issues. .Cheese., your concern for your idiot brother's future is laudable, but at least nobody was hurt (on this incident, anyway). He's jumped right into the manure, all by himself, and all you can do is toss him a pair of boots so he can wade out. Support, yes, but no one in your family should do anything that will lessen his responsibility for his actions. It will do him good.
Post by: De Selby on March 31, 2008, 09:24:27 PM
What you say is true...for people who don't ever intend to practice law.
Believe me, if you ever need a lawyer in california, for pete's sake check if he/she went to patino or lincoln...if your lawyer did, you're better off representing yourself armed with google. Up to and including representing yourself on a murder rap.
Post by: Antibubba on March 31, 2008, 10:02:40 PM
She graduated from nearby McGeorge School of Law, and had plenty of debt to pay off. She taught at Patino, she said, because the students were truly dedicated to their education, fitting it in around jobs and family in the evenings. She sure wasn't there for the money! The "campus" is literally a storefront. It was a stimulating learning environment, and I'd love to be able to get my JD there, but I don't have the time even for that.The only people who are better off as their own attorney are actors in movies. Even having law or paralegal students who can help you wade through the forms and filings and procedures is a valuable asset. And many of those who go on to practice law may never get near a courtroom.
I would have no problem with a Lincoln-trained lawyer as my attorney, provided I wasn't his first case ever! A lot of ABA accreditation is about the furnishings. Patino and even Lincoln don't have expansive libraries, but when you're a five minute drive from the County Law Library, in the State Capitol, the books you need aren't far. Patino is 2 blocks from that library, the Capitol building, and the courthouse. Would I prefer a Harvard Magna Cum Laude to keep me out of the gas chamber? Sure--wouldn't we all? But I'll also be happy to be represented by someone who doesn't know me as a case number in a manila file.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 01, 2008, 05:15:50 AM
It was an issue with the honor code. Unfortunately, there is a question for the bar and for application to law school that asks if you've ever been subject to disciplinary action, and he will have to say "yes" and explain. There also is a question for most schools about traffic violations. Stupidly enough it is in the same question for "criminal offenses". I thought it was moronic that I had to answer "Yes" to the question asking if I had any criminal offenses, because there was a second sentence saying "or traffic tickets". I included a form listing the few minor tickets I've gotten (ie: going 31 in a 25 mph zone b/c I thought it was a 30 mph zone). He's going to have to list this though and it's going to look bad.
We haven't gotten an attorney yet. We're still trying to find a good one.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 01, 2008, 05:23:22 AM
Post by: El Tejon on April 01, 2008, 05:37:29 AM
Post by: coppertales on April 01, 2008, 08:45:43 AM
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 01, 2008, 08:49:08 AM
Post by: Tuco on April 01, 2008, 01:54:31 PM
what got my brother suspended had nothing to do with any criminal offense.
You brought it up.....
It was an issue with the honor code.
And weaseling out of responsibility for driving like a maniac walks right in with the honor issues.
Good luck, cheese. Growing up not to be an attorney might be the best outcome yet.
Post by: doc2rn on April 01, 2008, 05:20:19 PM
Post by: BridgeRunner on April 01, 2008, 06:10:00 PM
Sorry, I got Firefly on the brain over here.
