Post by: Matthew Carberry on April 14, 2008, 12:29:11 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351244,00.html
Quote
Mayors Group Sets Up Deal With Wal-Mart on Tighter Gun Sales
Monday, April 14, 2008
WASHINGTON Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, is striking a deal with outspoken gun control advocate New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on tighter standards for such sales.
Bloomberg is announcing the initiative Monday as he meets with Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group he founded to try to crack down on the unlawful traffic in weapons that are often used in crimes.
Under the group's Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. will agree to retain records of all sales in which guns are later found to be used in crimes, said mayoral spokesman Jason Post. The company will also conduct background checks on employees who handle guns
Monday, April 14, 2008
WASHINGTON Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, is striking a deal with outspoken gun control advocate New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on tighter standards for such sales.
Bloomberg is announcing the initiative Monday as he meets with Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a group he founded to try to crack down on the unlawful traffic in weapons that are often used in crimes.
Under the group's Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. will agree to retain records of all sales in which guns are later found to be used in crimes, said mayoral spokesman Jason Post. The company will also conduct background checks on employees who handle guns
Are they allowed to retain any records other than 4473's, and, if not, are they allowed to do anything more than BATFE allows?
Or is this just posturing with no practical changes?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on April 14, 2008, 12:35:04 PM
This is definitely going to go over well with gun people.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gralhnpSNmqf6CzJAV7ELLbucN1gD901S2882
Quote
Wal-Mart Toughens Gun Policies
By DEVLIN BARRETT 54 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, announced Monday it will toughen rules for gun sales, from storing video of purchases to creating an internal log of which guns they sell that are later used in crimes.
J.P. Suarez, the chief compliance officer for Wal-Mart Stores Inc., appeared with outspoken gun control advocate Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York to announce the changes at a gathering of Bloomberg's group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:
_Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.
_Retaining the recorded images of gun sales in case law enforcement wants to view them later as part of an investigation.
_Expanding background checks of employees who handle guns and expanding inventory controls.
Suarez said the tougher standards will come with some additional cost to the company.
"The costs are we think part of what it takes to be responsible. Everything is not pain free," he said, adding that small sellers can implement many of the same rules. He did not say how long it would take to implement all the changes, but noted that software must still be created for an internal log of guns later used in crimes.
Suarez said his company may receive some pressure from gun rights groups, but added, "This is not a signal that we're getting out of firearms."
Bloomberg urged other companies to join Wal-Mart in the initiative called the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership.
"We didn't pressure them, they're doing it because they think it's the responsible thing to do," said Bloomberg.
Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, had previously tried to establish a store in New York City but failed.
The mayors' gun summit also unveiled a new lobbying effort to close what they call the "gun show loophole" that allows people to purchase guns without background checks at gun shows.
Bloomberg founded the group two years ago with Boston mayor Thomas Menino to reduce the flow of guns from store displays into the hands of criminals.
The group, largely funded by Bloomberg's personal fortune, announced it was spending more than $100,000 on television ads starting Wednesday featuring all three of the current main presidential candidates voicing their opposition to the gun show loophole.
The ads will run in the home states of the three presidential candidates John McCain of Arizona, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois. It also will air across Pennsylvania, which holds its primary next week, as well as Florida, Maryland and Massachusetts.
The mayors group is trying to gather support in Congress to:
_End the gun show loophole.
_Require gun dealers to perform criminal background checks on all gun-handling employees.
_Close a so-called fire-sale loophole that allows gun dealers whose licenses have been revoked by the government to sell off their inventory without background checks.
_Add those placed on the terrorist no-fly list to the list of people prohibited from purchasing a firearm.
By DEVLIN BARRETT 54 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) Wal-Mart, the nation's largest seller of firearms, announced Monday it will toughen rules for gun sales, from storing video of purchases to creating an internal log of which guns they sell that are later used in crimes.
J.P. Suarez, the chief compliance officer for Wal-Mart Stores Inc., appeared with outspoken gun control advocate Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York to announce the changes at a gathering of Bloomberg's group Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:
_Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.
_Retaining the recorded images of gun sales in case law enforcement wants to view them later as part of an investigation.
_Expanding background checks of employees who handle guns and expanding inventory controls.
Suarez said the tougher standards will come with some additional cost to the company.
"The costs are we think part of what it takes to be responsible. Everything is not pain free," he said, adding that small sellers can implement many of the same rules. He did not say how long it would take to implement all the changes, but noted that software must still be created for an internal log of guns later used in crimes.
Suarez said his company may receive some pressure from gun rights groups, but added, "This is not a signal that we're getting out of firearms."
Bloomberg urged other companies to join Wal-Mart in the initiative called the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership.
"We didn't pressure them, they're doing it because they think it's the responsible thing to do," said Bloomberg.
Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, had previously tried to establish a store in New York City but failed.
The mayors' gun summit also unveiled a new lobbying effort to close what they call the "gun show loophole" that allows people to purchase guns without background checks at gun shows.
Bloomberg founded the group two years ago with Boston mayor Thomas Menino to reduce the flow of guns from store displays into the hands of criminals.
The group, largely funded by Bloomberg's personal fortune, announced it was spending more than $100,000 on television ads starting Wednesday featuring all three of the current main presidential candidates voicing their opposition to the gun show loophole.
The ads will run in the home states of the three presidential candidates John McCain of Arizona, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois. It also will air across Pennsylvania, which holds its primary next week, as well as Florida, Maryland and Massachusetts.
The mayors group is trying to gather support in Congress to:
_End the gun show loophole.
_Require gun dealers to perform criminal background checks on all gun-handling employees.
_Close a so-called fire-sale loophole that allows gun dealers whose licenses have been revoked by the government to sell off their inventory without background checks.
_Add those placed on the terrorist no-fly list to the list of people prohibited from purchasing a firearm.
On that "fire sale" bit. Isn't that a sale to other dealers, who don't need a check anyway?
Post by: charby on April 14, 2008, 01:05:37 PM
I am still trying to figure out why they couldn't just look at my ID to make sure I am over 21 instead of scanning it.
Oh yeah Bloomberg, crack down on the criminals, also you might as well ban cars also since they are used in crime.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 14, 2008, 01:06:57 PM
Quote
I am still trying to figure out why they couldn't just look at my ID to make sure I am over 21 instead of scanning it.
They have never tried to scan my ID, nor would I let them.
I will never buy a gun from Walmart after this. Undecided on ammo, though...Ammo is a bit harder to obtain at a reasonable price around here.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 01:10:27 PM
Post by: bedlamite on April 14, 2008, 01:12:47 PM
On that "fire sale" bit. Isn't that a sale to other dealers, who don't need a check anyway?
AFAIK, after the FFL is gone, the ATF considers the guns the property of the person who held the FFL, and they can be sold as a private sale without a 4473, assuming no local laws are broken.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 14, 2008, 01:39:47 PM
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?
Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 01:57:56 PM
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?
Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...
So, the local businesses are 'raping' you? Don't they have to make a living, also?
Post by: Boomhauer on April 14, 2008, 02:13:04 PM
Quote
So, the local businesses are 'raping' you? Don't they have to make a living, also?
I'm also leaving out the bad customer service, my treatment because I was a teenager, and the outrageous price of well, everything. I'm sorry, but a box of ammo costs $9.50 at Walmart and $23.95 at the aformentioned gunshop, where do you think I am going to take my money?
Or when they tell me that a SBR is a $5 tax? AND they are supposed to be competent in dealing with NFA stuff?
If it wasn't for Walmart, I wouldn't have nearly the amount of ammo, nor would I be able to afford to shoot very much at all.
Post by: MechAg94 on April 14, 2008, 02:27:30 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on April 14, 2008, 02:29:36 PM
Quote
Changes at the stores that sell guns will include the creation of a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime.
So they will essentially have a gun registration for all guns sold at their store? Who will they share that information with?
Post by: mtnbkr on April 14, 2008, 02:45:54 PM
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?
Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...
So, the local businesses are 'raping' you? Don't they have to make a living, also?
They do that by being competitive, either in service, price, or both.
Amazing concept.
Chris
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 02:46:58 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 02:48:28 PM
Quote
They do that by being competitive, either in service, price, or both.
Amazing concept.
Chris
Amazing concept.
Chris
Yeah. Ain't nothin' like third world child sweatshop labor to keep those costs down, right Chris?
Post by: mtnbkr on April 14, 2008, 02:51:29 PM
Not that it matters. I spend my money where I get the most value. For guns, it isn't WM, nor is it for most ammo purchases, but I won't rule them out over misguided PC concerns.
Chris
Post by: mtnbkr on April 14, 2008, 02:58:30 PM
Chris
Post by: Angel Eyes on April 14, 2008, 03:36:47 PM
Apparently, they're not 'exiting' the gun business, only keeping better records
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
From the article:
Quote
Changes to come at about 1,100 Wal-Mart stores selling guns include:
Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.
Creating a record and alert system to record when a gun sold at Wal-Mart is later used in a crime. If the purchaser of that gun later tries to buy another gun at Wal-Mart, the system would alert the sales clerk of the prior buy and could refuse to make the sale.
So if I buy a gun from Wally World, and it is stolen from me and used in a crime, I could be prohibited from buying another gun from them. Punishing the victim, are we? (not to mention the issue of how WM would be notified that a given gun was used in a crime: repeal the Tiahrt amendment, I assume).
None of the measures listed in the article is going to keep even one gun out of the hands of criminals. Then again, I suspect that was never the intent.
-Jack
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 03:45:36 PM
Quote
So if I buy a gun from Wally World, and it is stolen from me and used in a crime, I could be prohibited from buying another gun from them.
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one?
Quote
Sweatshop work is better than no work.
Do you have small children, Chris? How would you feel about them working 10-14 hours a day around dangerous equipment? How would you feel if they lost fingers or hands? But it's ok for the 'furrin' kids, right? Because they're somehow inferior to your children.
No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 14, 2008, 03:51:26 PM
Quote
Good. Who needs 'em?
Well, when you are a student trying not to get raped over the price of ammo, Walmart is kind of nice. I don't have money to burn, and when the local dealer charges twice what Walmart charges for a box of Federal .30-30...
So, the local businesses are 'raping' you? Don't they have to make a living, also?
I thought you were all about standing up for the little guy. Or do you only care about the little guy when it gives you a chance to grind your ax?
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 14, 2008, 03:55:31 PM
Quote
So if I buy a gun from Wally World, and it is stolen from me and used in a crime, I could be prohibited from buying another gun from them.
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one?
Quote
Sweatshop work is better than no work.
Do you have small children, Chris? How would you feel about them working 10-14 hours a day around dangerous equipment? How would you feel if they lost fingers or hands? But it's ok for the 'furrin' kids, right? Because they're somehow inferior to your children.
No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.
And tell me, which ammunition manufacturer produces their ammo in sweatshops? I'd like to know, so that I don't buy their inferior product by mistake.
Post by: Tallpine on April 14, 2008, 04:04:10 PM
Quote
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one?
Yeah, that's right.
And if your car is stolen, then you shouldn't be able to own another car, because you obviously aren't responsible enough to keep it from being stolen.
Same thing with houses - if a burglar breaks in, you should be thrown out on the street and someone else should have your house who will put in better locks and an alarm system, etc.
And money too ... if you get robbed, then you shouldn't ever handle money again
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 04:06:01 PM
Quote
Are you so ignorant of the rest of the world that you don't realize how deplorable conditions are in most other countries, that for many people sweatshop work is a step up?
I'll need awhile to ponder the full arrogance of that statement. I choose to believe that your tolerance of child sweatshop labor is just an aberration, and that's it's not the prevailing attitude of the American people.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 04:10:29 PM
Quote
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one?
Yeah, that's right.
And if your car is stolen, then you shouldn't be able to own another car, because you obviously aren't responsible enough to keep it from being stolen.
Same thing with houses - if a burglar breaks in, you should be thrown out on the street and someone else should have your house who will put in better locks and an alarm system, etc.
And money too ... if you get robbed, then you shouldn't ever handle money again
The very least that will happen is your insurance premiums will increase. But I suppose that's unfair too. After all, you're just a victim.
A victim of your own negligence.
Post by: Mabs2 on April 14, 2008, 04:15:41 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on April 14, 2008, 04:18:25 PM
Do you have small children, Chris? How would you feel about them working 10-14 hours a day around dangerous equipment? How would you feel if they lost fingers or hands? But it's ok for the 'furrin' kids, right? Because they're somehow inferior to your children.
No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.
No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.
Yes, I have children. If that was the best we could do and the alternative was starving, then I wouldn't have much choice in the matter.
If anyone is forcing these kids to work, it's their parents. Go whine to them.
Chris
Post by: Tallpine on April 14, 2008, 04:20:17 PM
Quote
A victim of your own negligence.
I suppose that applies to rape victims as well
Post by: Manedwolf on April 14, 2008, 04:21:32 PM
A wise local gunstore started carrying S&B and underpricing wal-mart's overpriced WWB, and another local one has sales on Blazer Brass that are cheaper than Wal-Mart. So I give them all my business. There's another gunstore that has kept to the model of "keep it high and they'll come sit around and BS and not buy", and their old-style-packaged ammo is covered in dust.
Give me a good price, and I'll go elsewhere. Two out of the three stores underprice Wal-Mart. Gets them a lot of business!
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 04:23:41 PM
Quote
A victim of your own negligence.
I suppose that applies to rape victims as well
Wrong. If you're raped, your insurance premiums don't increase. If you can't secure your belongings, however, it'll cost you. As well it should.
Post by: Manedwolf on April 14, 2008, 04:27:45 PM
Quote
A victim of your own negligence.
I suppose that applies to rape victims as well
Remember, they're from a state where you have to have a state-approved gunsafe by law if you don't want them all having state-approved trigger locks, and if someone breaks in and the guns weren't locked in the safe, it's all your fault.
When you only have one world perspective where you've spent your life, it tends to limit your outlook. You know, how you can't describe sunshine to someone who has spent their life in a cave? You can't describe non-statist freedom to someone who has spent all or most of their life in a statist state. It's the only reality they can comprehend. I run into this a lot with people who have spent their entire lives in MA or CA.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 14, 2008, 04:28:46 PM
I've heard of folks having entire gunsafes (safes, not cabinets) stolen from their basements. Having moved and empty one before, I can say that's a level of determination most don't have.
Chris
Post by: Manedwolf on April 14, 2008, 04:33:08 PM
How secure is secure? You do know that no security is 100%. It serves only to provide various levels of difficulty in order to deter the less dedicated. Someone who is "in it to win" WILL have your guns regardless of your efforts.
I've heard of folks having entire gunsafes (safes, not cabinets) stolen from their basements. Having moved and empty one before, I can say that's a level of determination most don't have.
Chris
I've heard of folks having entire gunsafes (safes, not cabinets) stolen from their basements. Having moved and empty one before, I can say that's a level of determination most don't have.
Chris
California codified "It's the victim's fault for being robbed of their guns" in 2002 and added further Brady text in 2007.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12087.php
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 14, 2008, 04:35:06 PM
How secure is secure? You do know that no security is 100%. It serves only to provide various levels of difficulty in order to deter the less dedicated. Someone who is "in it to win" WILL have your guns regardless of your efforts.
I've heard of folks having entire gunsafes (safes, not cabinets) stolen from their basements. Having moved and empty one before, I can say that's a level of determination most don't have.
Chris
I've heard of folks having entire gunsafes (safes, not cabinets) stolen from their basements. Having moved and empty one before, I can say that's a level of determination most don't have.
Chris
California codified "It's the victim's fault for being robbed of their guns" in 2002 and added further Brady text in 2007.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12087.php
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 14, 2008, 04:39:33 PM
Quote
Remember, they're from a state where you have to have a gunsafe by law,
You're wrong again. There is no such law. Prove it or retract that lie.
Quote
t baffles me that anyone would willingly choose to live in California.
You seem baffled by a lot of things, HTG.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 14, 2008, 05:12:06 PM
Quote
t baffles me that anyone would willingly choose to live in California.
You seem baffled by a lot of things, HTG.
Post by: Boomhauer on April 14, 2008, 05:17:27 PM
Quote
If you couldn't secure the first one, why should you have another one?
Okay, I'm sending you the bill for a $6000 safe. Mainly, because anything less than that is pretty much only a RSC, and the safes that I can actually afford might be able won't keep out a slightly motivated burgler with a prybar, or a lazy one with a saw.
Quote
I haven't been in a wally world in years now.
A wise local gunstore started carrying S&B and underpricing wal-mart's overpriced WWB, and another local one has sales on Blazer Brass that are cheaper than Wal-Mart. So I give them all my business. There's another gunstore that has kept to the model of "keep it high and they'll come sit around and BS and not buy", and their old-style-packaged ammo is covered in dust.
Give me a good price, and I'll go elsewhere. Two out of the three stores underprice Wal-Mart. Gets them a lot of business!
A wise local gunstore started carrying S&B and underpricing wal-mart's overpriced WWB, and another local one has sales on Blazer Brass that are cheaper than Wal-Mart. So I give them all my business. There's another gunstore that has kept to the model of "keep it high and they'll come sit around and BS and not buy", and their old-style-packaged ammo is covered in dust.
Give me a good price, and I'll go elsewhere. Two out of the three stores underprice Wal-Mart. Gets them a lot of business!
Believe me, if only my gunstores would do that...Walmart would lose my business so fast it wouldn't even be funny. I will only deal with one gunshop in town that has reasonable prices, but he is rarely open and doesn't stock much. I ain't asking for much. Just decent .22LR, .30-30, 9mm, 7.62x39, 12 gauge, and 7.62x54R. Just get somewhat close to WW prices, within a couple of dollars, and keep a decent supply in stock, and treat me decent, and I will be a very loyal customer.
Post by: MicroBalrog on April 14, 2008, 05:54:40 PM
Quote
No wonder Americans are reviled around the world.
Where 'around the world' are Americans reviled?
Are you implying I hate Americans? Or the other non-American posters on this forum hate Americans?
Do you think people in India hate Americans? Or in China?
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 14, 2008, 06:09:49 PM
Apparently, they're not 'exiting' the gun business, only keeping better records
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
Keeping better records, and cutting a deal with a pack of rabid gun-grabbers. Those of us who gave the OP a cursory glance already knew that.
Ole Paddy. At one point in time, his political views seemed almost reasonable. He's been drifting farther and farther to the left, and now he's almost completely sold out to the dark side.
(Now he's going to tell me it's something beyond right and left, I wouldn't understand, the little guy, the corporate tyranny, the Founding Fathers wanted us all to get a living wage, etc. )
Post by: Matthew Carberry on April 14, 2008, 08:37:44 PM
Apparently, they're not 'exiting' the gun business, only keeping better records
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24114145/
Thus the sarcasm (irony?) in the original post. Whatever it was, it wasn't particularly subtle.
Quote from: carebear
Well, they will be, after the boycotts...
What I'm trying to figure out is how they'll store that much video. There are thousands of stores nationwide and a gun transaction takes a while. If they are keeping them for LE from this point forward, that's gonna burn some memory.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 15, 2008, 02:10:03 AM
What I'm trying to figure out is how they'll store that much video. There are thousands of stores nationwide and a gun transaction takes a while. If they are keeping them for LE from this point forward, that's gonna burn some memory.
Depends on how much they keep of each transaction and the quality at which they record. Data storage is cheap.
Chris
Post by: J.J. on April 15, 2008, 05:36:12 AM
2 days ago at work I was told to pick up line 1 immediately.
I grab the phone
Me: "This is J.J. how can I help you."
Caller: "This is ***** a Dispatch with the City Police Department. I have an officer in route to a call I need to know did you sell a shotgun to a ***** today."
Me: "Hold on let me go to sporting goods and check." I rush to sporting goods and am trying unsuccessfully to get a response from the other managers (4) if they did a gun sell. "Ma'am she tried to buy a gun today but it was delayed"
Caller: Delayed what do you mean
Me: Explains delayed.
Caller: Did anyone else buy a shotgun today.
Me: Not today.
-----
Turns out she was trying to buy the gun to kill her self and a friend called the cops. They wanted to make sure she didn't have it to change how they approached her.
It was an odd situation.
How many times a day does Wal-Mart inc. get some sort of call like that. It would be nice if we had a way to input on a computer that info. Instead I had to dig through a filing cabinet and pull out this months Proceed, Delayed and Denied forms. Then I had to pull out this months Completed sales. As it was I was rushed and forgot where stuff was.
I would want to know the specifics of implementation before I make a judgment.
We had to pull video for the officers to confirm or deny this (so she could be helped if it was her)
I notified everyone that selling her a gun at this time is not a good idea. A little sticky note on her form and an E-mail is really not the best way to do this.
All they are doing is storing all the data that they already have. AND making sure that tougher background checks are inplace for those handling the guns.
Post by: Manedwolf on April 15, 2008, 05:39:01 AM
How many times a day does Wal-Mart inc. get some sort of call like that. It would be nice if we had a way to input on a computer that info. Instead I had to dig through a filing cabinet and pull out this months Proceed, Delayed and Denied forms. Then I had to pull out this months Completed sales. As it was I was rushed and forgot where stuff was.
No.
The actions of a single criminal or mentally disturbed individual do not justify the violation of the privacy rights of the law-abiding.
If it was input in a computer, it would be shared. It would be used for "suspects" by lazy cops. It would be hacked. It would be used in profiles, by government or marketers. It would go to people it shouldn't go to, maybe even anti-gun sorts who would use it to harass. Confidential Wal-Mart security video ends up on YouTube. Do you really think the contents of that wouldn't be dumped onto a flashkey by some Bradyite who got a job at Wal-Mart specifically to do it?
There is one form, the 4473, that is run through the NCIS check and then goes away. That is all that is acceptable for a gun purchase.
Also, why do you have denied forms filed? Here, I believe, if someone gets "denied" on their NCIS check, local law enforcement is notified and a cruiser shows up at the store.
Post by: J.J. on April 15, 2008, 05:42:15 AM
There is one form, the 4473, that is run through the NCIS check and then goes away. That is all that is acceptable for a gun purchase.
The form never goes away.
Post by: Manedwolf on April 15, 2008, 05:47:08 AM
There is one form, the 4473, that is run through the NCIS check and then goes away. That is all that is acceptable for a gun purchase.
The form never goes away.
I'd meant that the record of it goes away at the other end other than the identifying number. It's not filed in a computer system to be hacked. If Wal-Mart did anything with those forms other than lock them up in case of investigations, as paper forms, if they started scanning them, it'd be lawsuit time.
Post by: MechAg94 on April 15, 2008, 06:32:44 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on April 15, 2008, 06:38:16 AM
I wish someone around here would sell S&B. I end up buying a lot of ammo at gun shows. There are a couple of ammo sellers in the Houston area that hit all the major gun shows and have decent bulk prices.
I like it. It's very clean and accurate, and the boxes are a lot smaller due to a more efficient plastic tray that holds the rounds.
Post by: charby on April 15, 2008, 07:05:48 AM
I wish someone around here would sell S&B. I end up buying a lot of ammo at gun shows. There are a couple of ammo sellers in the Houston area that hit all the major gun shows and have decent bulk prices.
Same here or why can't the smaller shops sell WWB? I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
-C
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 15, 2008, 07:39:13 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 15, 2008, 02:03:19 PM
I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
You go to Blaine, huh? Do they still have their theater program?
Post by: charby on April 15, 2008, 06:23:48 PM
I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
You go to Blaine, huh? Do they still have their theater program?
Huh? Blaine's Farm and Fleet is a chain of farm and home stores.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on April 15, 2008, 06:28:48 PM
I was in Wally World on Sunday in Columbus, Ohio, on the far east side. Stopped by the gun counter to look at prices on ammo, and there were no firearms. When I assked, the clerk said that Wal Mart no longer sells firearms.
Yet another case of A store thinking they are ALL stores.
He's wrong, go back in and call him a damn dirty liar.
That kind of deliberate ignorance and misinformation should be loudly and publically mocked. it's the only way they'll learn.
Post by: MechAg94 on April 15, 2008, 06:31:44 PM
I wish someone around here would sell S&B. I end up buying a lot of ammo at gun shows. There are a couple of ammo sellers in the Houston area that hit all the major gun shows and have decent bulk prices.
Same here or why can't the smaller shops sell WWB? I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
-C
From what I can tell, the smaller shops sell a lot of JHP and hunting ammo. I haven't seen much bulk ammo. The FMJ is typically American Eagle and UMC and such. I guess most will order anything you want.
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 15, 2008, 07:11:29 PM
I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
You go to Blaine, huh? Do they still have their theater program?
Huh? Blaine's Farm and Fleet is a chain of farm and home stores.
I think they have a store in my wife's home-town. But, yeah, Blaine has (or had) a semi-professional theater troupe. I heard they even got some attention from a Mr. Guffman of Broadway.
Post by: charby on April 15, 2008, 07:22:54 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 15, 2008, 07:39:19 PM
Post by: Antibubba on April 15, 2008, 07:59:34 PM
That whirring sound is Sam spinning in his grave.
Post by: gunsmith on April 16, 2008, 01:17:36 AM
Quote
It baffles me that anyone would willingly choose to live in California.
It is a bastion of conservative common sense and a 2nd amendment paradise...compared to NY & NJ
I try to buy my ammo by the case at gun shows.
Post by: Manedwolf on April 16, 2008, 04:12:31 AM
Quote
It baffles me that anyone would willingly choose to live in California.
It is a bastion of conservative common sense and a 2nd amendment paradise...compared to NY & NJ
I try to buy my ammo by the case at gun shows.
I think the WTF law that amuses me most there is that you can't have a stock configuration Yugo SKS 59/66. I guess they had a problem with drive-by rifle grenadings?
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on April 20, 2008, 05:03:01 AM
I wish someone around here would sell S&B. I end up buying a lot of ammo at gun shows. There are a couple of ammo sellers in the Houston area that hit all the major gun shows and have decent bulk prices.
Same here or why can't the smaller shops sell WWB? I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
-C
I've bought S&B .45 at a local gun show. Split a case with a friend. It shot well, was relatively clean, and the case mouth and primer were sealed to be waterproof.
Post by: Manedwolf on April 20, 2008, 05:08:15 AM
I wish someone around here would sell S&B. I end up buying a lot of ammo at gun shows. There are a couple of ammo sellers in the Houston area that hit all the major gun shows and have decent bulk prices.
Same here or why can't the smaller shops sell WWB? I have only seen WWB at Walmart and Blaine's Farm and Fleet.
-C
I've bought S&B .45 at a local gun show. Split a case with a friend. It shot well, was relatively clean, and the case mouth and primer were sealed to be waterproof.
Yes, it's good to have in emergency supplies or if you go boating/canoeing for that reason. There's a nice military-style red ring of sealant around the bullet/case edge and primer.