Post by: El Tejon on August 17, 2005, 02:15:47 AM
Short of beating people with baseball bats, how do we stop this madness?
Post by: mtnbkr on August 17, 2005, 02:31:16 AM
Chris
Post by: garrettwc on August 17, 2005, 03:46:02 AM
Post by: Telperion on August 17, 2005, 04:14:50 AM
Edit: fixed a sentence
Post by: charby on August 17, 2005, 04:20:22 AM
Quote from: El Tejon
I cannot stand it anymore--baseball hats, shorts, sandals, beer guts and goatees.
Don't foget pony tail!I resemble that comment, but if I had to go to court I would wear one of my suits. When I attend a wedding, funeral, banquet I dress appropriately. My job on the other had I can pretty much wear whatever I want alongs as I have a shirt and shoes on, so I am usually in t-shirts and shorts.
Charby
Post by: Sylvilagus Aquaticus on August 17, 2005, 04:55:08 AM
I thought judges had the wherewithall to demand proper attire in the courtroom as well. Maybe they're afraid of offending the jurors or (gasp) the defendant.
I'm sure someone can find a suitable orange jumpsuit as a 'temporarily acceptable uniform'.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Post by: USP45usp on August 17, 2005, 05:19:25 AM
(we copped to "we didn't see the sign" and we were just sitting there) I wore my dress blues (as did the others).But, if I had to goto court, my suit and ties would be dusted off.
And I third the :confused: on the judge allowing this type of attire (the shorts, flip-flops, etc..).
Wayne
Post by: K Frame on August 17, 2005, 05:29:39 AM
ENDTIMES!
Post by: El Tejon on August 17, 2005, 06:01:26 AM
Chris, yes, some do, but the misdemeanor courts are really bad. Some make them turn their shirts inside out if they have on something offensive like a pot leaf or a Confederate flag.
Gar, I WISH it were only college students. At least the boys at Purdue, St. Joseph, Wabash or Depauw wear ties most of the time.
char, if only more did like you.
Mike, darn those end times!!!
Post by: CatsDieNow on August 17, 2005, 07:12:11 AM
Honey, you have WAY too much of it, so please stop flaunting it. I have no desire to see your tattoo on the small of your back or your over-stressed thong either.
Post by: El Tejon on August 17, 2005, 07:39:58 AM
As P.J. O'Rourke says, I just wish people who learn when to cover up and when to reveal! Wish they would learn to operate soap and water and razors as well, but that's just me.
Post by: Stickjockey on August 17, 2005, 08:01:08 AM
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Honey, you have WAY too much of it, so please stop flaunting it. I have no desire to see your tattoo on the small of your back or your over-stressed thong either.
Amen to that!
Post by: charby on August 17, 2005, 08:21:14 AM
Quote from: El Tejon
Wish they would learn to operate soap and water and razors as well, but that's just me.
Ok, maybe some guys are like me and its downright painful to shave everyday. I do shower everyday though. Every man should have in their closent and this will cover any event you go to except for after six/black tie affairs and that is why they have tuxedo rental places.
1 wool suit navy blue or grey (navy is more timeless) two button, normal/buisness lapels
1 wool sport coat
2 pairs of wool/cotton trousers that are different colors but match the sport coat
2 pairs of cotton docker type pants, one in kakhi and other navy
1 pair of black dress shoes shined
1 pair of brown dress shoes shined
1 black leather dress belt
1 brown leather dress belt
1 long sleaved cotton white shirt
1 long sleaved cotton light blue shirt
1 or 2 other shirts that match suit and or sport coat/trousers combo
2-3 silk or polyester ties that match the suit or sports coat
please don't wear a black rubber banded atheltic watch with dressier clothes. (my pet peave)
Quote from: El Tejon
I know people can dress as they wish, but when you see photos of my city, say 1915 (used to have one from that year hanging in my office of downton Lafayette), men had on coats and ties and wore hats and shoes that took a shine as they walked to the office or lined up for the street car. .
Times were different, many men were shop keepers. Shopkeepers and proprietors wore a suit during those time. When the 1920's came around there was a big fashion change and that ended a lot of the men who wore suits everyday and big dresses with petticoats for the ladies. What you don't see are pictures of the men and women who worked in the labor factories and they didn't wear suits to work there. Look at today, Walmart has replaced all the local department stores and who can affored a suit on minumum wage?Another side note, when is the last time you saw a men's only clothing store in a mall? The ones I go to are usually in a small shopping area or a stand alone store on a busy street.
Charby
Post by: El Tejon on August 17, 2005, 08:40:33 AM
Living in Northern Indiana I know a beard has defensive advantages especially in January and February if you are working construction or walking the iron. Couple times last winter I was out skiing and I begged Vishnu for a beard right away.
How about this: it is resolved that if you have one, take care of it and think about how others might see it, inlcudes beards or biscuit bellies.
Post by: USP45usp on August 17, 2005, 09:48:01 AM
Quote
please don't wear a black rubber banded atheltic watch with dressier clothes.
1945 (or is it 1949) Lord Elgin with leather band. 18K gold. But if I was going to court (hopefully just to plead down a fine, nothing major) I would wear my "working man's" 1954 Gruen
.Wayne
Post by: grampster on August 17, 2005, 09:59:07 AM
I agree. I am gagged by the tuna that wear those colored tights with a man's shirt hanging out. Trouble is the belly and the behind use up most of the shirt material leaving the resulting apocalyptical vision.
I've got many picks of my grandfather taken in the '30's and early '40's. The family used to camp on the beaches of Lake Michigan and in the woods of northern Michigan. Yet every picture, there he was in a suit, vest and tie. Many times with his fedora on as well. Sometimes he was sans coat, and his shirtsleeves were rolled, but he had a vest and tie. The man had style.
Post by: LawDog on August 17, 2005, 11:05:31 AM
LawDog
Post by: Standing Wolf on August 17, 2005, 12:07:21 PM
Post by: Guest on August 17, 2005, 01:44:02 PM
If I have to attend an event that requires dressing, I dress. For work, I put on presentable, if frumpy, clothing, and shoes whose wearing doesn't mimic a high wire act.
Running around town from Kroger to the car wash? Bah. I'm there to get something done, not make the fashion police happy.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2005, 02:12:49 PM
It's not fashion we're discussing here, it's basic presentability. That and wearing shoes that are fit for more than showering or a day at the beach.
Post by: Stand_watie on August 17, 2005, 02:14:20 PM
Post by: Guest on August 17, 2005, 02:21:24 PM
But dang..for people who claim to care about liberty, we certainly do care an awful lot about others' business.
I dress when I have to. Hell, I even wear nylons if its for a good cause. But the idea that I owe someone a certain pair of shoes to buy bread or make a bank deposit in is beyond me.
And quite frankly, I'm a bit too busy to worry about whether my nails are neatly manicured when I'm running from a track meet to a doctor's appointment to a meeting.
I think the reason everyone in photos looked so well groomed back then is that (ahem!) no one took pictures of them if they weren't!
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2005, 02:56:04 PM
Quote
for people who claim to care about liberty, we certainly do care an awful lot about others' business.
That's not only silly, it's self-contradictory. Are we forcing anybody to do anything?I doubt that you dress in the manner described, anyway. We're not saying you have to dress up everywhere you go.
Post by: ...has left the building. on August 17, 2005, 03:02:16 PM
I really like when I see them on campus with their motorcycles...they sit on Chauncey Hill in their squid gear and just BS while I'm dragging my peg feeler around the corner on my 250
In all seriousness, Japanese philosophy has taught me that you should take pride in ALL things in your life, from your keeping your appearance/house neat to treating people with care and respect. Having that sort of care in your daily life leads to success whether you have $1 to your name or $1B. Have you ever noticed that people that say don't take care of their apartment/car/house/etc. because they consider it a temporary situation? Well those people generally never transcend their current position. Care small matters extends to all things.
Post by: garrettwc on August 17, 2005, 05:12:07 PM
I think that's why I like old films from the 40's - 50's and Connery's Jame Bond movies. The men are always well dressed. Grey suit, crisp white shirt, neat tie, and a fedora.
Good on the schools you mentioned. There may be hope for the future yet.
LawDog, add to that tip it to a lady. Give up your seat to an elderly person. Hold the door or chair for a lady.
People have lost all sense of style, grace, or just plain old manners.
It's even creeping into churches.
The church where my parents attend has a second service on Sunday called "Contemporary Service". Which translates to mostly younger people in jeans and t-shirts, etc.
When I was growing up if I had suggested to my parents that I wear jeans and a Nascar t-shirt to church, I would have had extreme difficulty sitting in the pew comfortably.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 17, 2005, 07:47:48 PM
Quote
The church where my parents attend has a second service on Sunday called "Contemporary Service". Which translates to mostly younger people in jeans and t-shirts, etc. When I was growing up if I had suggested to my parents that I wear jeans and a Nascar t-shirt to church, I would have had extreme difficulty sitting in the pew comfortably.
I wear my jeans and t-shirt to the holiness, primitive-Wesleyan service, with the 300-year old hymns and the anti-dancing sermon. For one, I can't afford to buy a suit. More importantly, I don't see the point of wearing a multi-layered European style of clothing in the American climate (St. Louis). Even in the winter, it makes no sense to wear all that folderol in a heated car and a heated church building. And then there is the simple fact that jeans, carpenter pants and BDU trousers are simply superior to dress slacks. Why? Stuff stays in my pockets. Oh, and I insist on wearing well-made, well-maintained, all-leather logger boots, because they are superior footwear. I'm afraid they just look funny with a suit.But I do try not to wear shirts with commercial logos, and I am looking for ways to dress up without being all dolled up.
Post by: Guest on August 17, 2005, 09:16:30 PM
Post by: Guest on August 17, 2005, 10:13:30 PM
I saw an old photo taken at a HOCKEY GAME of all places from the 1950s IIRC, every single man there was in a tie and coat, and the woman all had hats and dresses. Today people wear cothes to formal occassions that my grandfather wouldnt have worn to paint his house.
Post by: Guest on August 17, 2005, 10:57:03 PM
I'm not a billboard.
Post by: Paddy on August 18, 2005, 06:30:56 AM
Quote
Ha, I usually draw the line at logos, too.
I'm not a billboard.
I couldn't agree more with that. I'm not a billboard.
People who dress like slobs everywhere they go not only show contempt for everyone else, they demonstrate a low self image. It's like their inner angst is screaming out 'look at me, I'm a sleaze'. Most of them are also easily offended and walking around with a chip on their shoulder. I think it comes directly from the 'victimization' phenomenon.
Have you also noticed that many of these people groom themselves in such a way as to emphasize their worst traits? Fat women wearing flowered pants. Guys with their eyes really close together have little short mustaches like Hitler. Or guys with big noses who wear glasses have mustaches and the whole thing looks like a Groucho Marx caricature.
Post by: TarpleyG on August 18, 2005, 10:27:57 AM
Quote
and goatees
And just exactly what is wrong with a nicely trimmed goatee??? Or beard or mustache for that matter. Sorry you are offended by my facial hair.Greg
Post by: Antibubba on August 18, 2005, 10:44:24 AM
I think that what they are talking about is akin to the "broken windows" idea of law enforcement; i.e. that when we ignore the small lapses of clothing etiquette and standards, then we should not be surprised when those rules are openly ignored or ridiculed.
Post by: El Tejon on August 18, 2005, 10:45:54 AM
Post by: Stickjockey on August 18, 2005, 10:59:58 AM
Quote
I declined to hire a surprisingly large number of people over the years who declined to dress up for job interviews.
I've gotten jobs based solely on the fact that I did dress up for the interview.
Post by: Art Eatman on August 18, 2005, 12:13:38 PM
I see no reason for looking grungy. To me, it just shows a lack of pride in oneself. And, looking at a lot of these creatures, it generally appears there's little for which they could be proud. A lot of them look like a few months in a Jap prison camp would be salubrious.
This ignores the Terlingua game of "dressing down" for the tourists. It lets them feel superior, and they can walk back to their cars and mumble about the "quaint people" in that desert community.
(I goofed, one day. I was just off the backhoe, and joined the porch crowd up at Ghost Town for a beer or three. Some touron* wandered past, feeling quite superior until he caught a glimpse of my Rolex. Blew the whole deal, right there. D: )
Art
*Touron: Cross between a tourist and a moron.
Post by: DrAmazon on August 18, 2005, 02:57:54 PM
Quote from: CatsDieNow
Women's fashion is even worse. I refuse to purchase clothes until this stupid frilly ill-fitting shirt and low-riding, wide leg pants phase is over.
Honey, you have WAY too much of it, so please stop flaunting it. I have no desire to see your tattoo on the small of your back or your over-stressed thong either.
Oh I second that! I've been very into shopping the thrift stores since this phase began. And don't get me started on the flp flops and pointy toed Barbie shoes.Honey, you have WAY too much of it, so please stop flaunting it. I have no desire to see your tattoo on the small of your back or your over-stressed thong either.
I just hope the next fashion phase isn't worse...
Post by: Guest on August 18, 2005, 03:29:49 PM
Me addressing a crowd of gunnies-
http://www.firearmsalliance.org/DSCF0009.jpg
http://www.firearmsalliance.org/Me.JPG
Me with State Senator Valde Garcia-
http://www.firearmsalliance.org/BandV.jpg
Howsomeever:
You are just as likely to see me at the hardware store wearing a raggedly old uniform shirt with a name tag that says Twyla and a pair of tar-stained denim shorts, with my hair in some kind of ratty old knot on the top of my head. You'll be lucky if I'm wearing shoes. I will under no circumstances be wearing make up during this. If you saw me, you may think I'm a crazy homeless woman or something.
If I need to pop into the grocery store or the vet while I'm out, I'm doing it, and like I said, ignoring anyone who thinks I'm a bum.
So, yea..if you're saying people should wear something respectable into court or church, I'm not going to argue with you, but when it gets beyond that to "people shouldn't leave the house looking like that" I disagree. Who decides? Can I be annoyed by ugly ties or stupid little fashionable glasses?
The coolest thing I ever saw was a very large black woman wearing a bikini at a water park once..at first, I was taken aback, but the more I thought about it, she looked great..she was very confident and very strong looking and there was no reason on earth some little chickie was more qualified to be comfortable on a hundred degree day than she was, so more power to her.
Post by: BryanP on August 18, 2005, 03:33:32 PM
Being a sysadmin I have a bit more leeway in "professional" dress. I tend towards a mix of long and short sleeved button down shirts in various solid colors. Slacks or jeans as appropriate (no jeans in my office). I have a bad habit of ending up with a black belt and brown shoes (or vice versa) because I'm not paying attention at O'God It's Early O'Clock. But then I spend 90% of my day in a locked room with a bunch of servers and two other people who really couldn't care less. I've been told that at least one Director level person refers to the three of us as "The Nerd Herd" consisting of The Girl, The Long Haired Freak, and The Big Fat Geek. I'm not a girl and I don't have a ponytail going 2/3 down my back like Ed does. You figure it out.
No hats, but then hats just don't look right on me. Same for jewelry. Wedding ring and maybe a watch.
I have a beard and mustache but I trim at least once a week if not twice and shape with a razor.
If you see me at the range or doing yardwork I'm probably wearing one of those button down shirts that has become a bit too worn/stained/ratty for the office.
I can't imagine showing up for court in anything less than decently groomed "business casual" attire. That would be bare minimum.
I won't force someone else to dress "appropriately." But if you think people don't judge you based on those appearances you're nuts. The question is are you in a place that you care what others think of you?
Biggest dress faux-pas I've ever seen that made me laugh my big fat butt off: When I used to work for Pepsi Cola I saw a guy show up for an interview wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with a big Coca Cola logo.
Post by: crt360 on August 18, 2005, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: Blackburn
Suits look nice, they're also totally insane in warm weather, or cold weather when everything indoors is being heated.
I agree. I wear them all the time. They are hot, uncomfortable, restrictive, delicate, expensive, limited-function, dry clean only get-ups from the old world. When the heat index is 112 and the real temp in my car that's been sitting in the lot is 135 it makes little sense to go out in several layers of clothing topped off by full body coverage of dark wool and tie your shirt collar shut with a strip of silk.There are a few benefits to wearing a suit:
If your head is not too ugly, the suit will make you look at least decent, no matter what else is wrong with you.
It was obviously designed for concealment (mainly of the bodies of out-of-shape middle-aged guys) and is easy to hide most pistols in.
It's easy to sneak into places where others are all wearing suits - nobody can tell who doesn't belong.
If you have a particularly fly suit, some people will be impressed.
I spend so much time "dressed up" I don't care if people see me on Saturday afternoon in shorts, t-shirt, baseball cap and running shoes. I don't have any problem with others wearing the same. I don't really find any clothing offensive in appearance, but there is a certain combination of: (1) fat, exposed middle sections that flank the waistband (2) tattoos that have changed shape and now look like bad scars (3) stink, and (4) a loudmouthed, get outta my way attitude that I've begun to encounter a lot more often than I'd like.
Post by: BryanP on August 18, 2005, 04:48:40 PM
Quote
[3) stink,
Now there's something I can get behind. Yesterday I was on an elevator when a gaggle of women and a young teenager stepped on. I'm not sure which of them it was but one of them definitely doesn't believe in basic bodily hygiene. I can close my eyes. My nose ... feh.
Post by: Waitone on August 18, 2005, 04:51:11 PM
Post by: Guest on August 18, 2005, 11:39:50 PM
Post by: grampster on August 19, 2005, 11:42:38 AM
A. First let me apologize for my upcoming remark. B. I can't help myself as you provided the golden opportunity. C. So, it's your fault, really, it is...
In the first pic, you are not the one standing to the far right behind the table, are you?
The one in jeans? With the blond hair and khaki shirt and the ahem, cough, sort of round abdominal area? With hands in pockets?
(grampster ducks, weaves to the right and lunges forward out of the room, away from the flatscreen, just in case......
Post by: Guest on August 19, 2005, 03:21:19 PM
Nope, I'm the chick at the front of the room.
That was my friend Bryan who was most likely shaking his head at something I was saying, which like most of my friends, is something he spends a lot of time doing.
Post by: Guest on August 19, 2005, 03:23:36 PM
Imagine running around like that when cosmetic surgery would take care of either problem. The nerve!
Barbara the Perpetual Smartass.
Post by: lee n. field on August 19, 2005, 04:22:03 PM
Quote
What's more today IN COURT I see tank tops with with cut off shorts and flip flops (men in flip flops) and stocking caps!
When you go to court, let your Mom dress you.
Post by: griz on August 19, 2005, 05:44:45 PM
Church is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I will not try to speak for God (I can hear him laughing already), but I suspect that he would rather see some body there every Sunday rather than show up twice a year dressed to kill.
Oh well, I'm going to take my shoes off
and not worry about it.
Post by: El Tejon on August 22, 2005, 11:45:17 AM
Post by: Strings on August 22, 2005, 02:30:52 PM
At the very least, bathe yourself and wash your clothes occassionally! I've run into WAY too many people who need the "horse brush and fire hose" treatment. Got no trouble with dressing comfortably, but can we NOT be complete slobs?
Post by: Azrael256 on August 22, 2005, 02:37:10 PM
You'd think I'd be into this tights thing. Well-toned attractive women walking around in spandex is a neat idea at first, but it's kinda hard to ask a girl out when there's really nothing to imagine on the first date. It wouldn't be *that* hard to pull a pair of jeans over tights, or to *gasp* change clothes, but it's evidently more than one can ask of a dance major.
Post by: Strings on August 22, 2005, 02:42:16 PM
Post by: griz on August 22, 2005, 04:40:12 PM
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griz, can you at least polish your bare feet before you go to court?
Well....OK. But no pedicure, I have standards to maintain
Post by: Winston Smith on August 22, 2005, 07:35:38 PM
All the rest are artificial standards.
Post by: Stickjockey on August 23, 2005, 06:28:36 AM
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There are times and places that require a certain quality of dress. But most of the time the individual style is up to the...well, individual.
+1The point is not to dress up, but to dress appropriately. I'm not going to paint my house done up in my kilt and Prince Charlie. Likewise, I'm not going to a job interview/court appearance in ragged BDU's and an old Battlefield Band t-shirt.
Quote
...(then it's tartan, instead of Utilikilt).
I have so got to get me one or two of those!