Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 08:40:49 AM
Quote
Gun seller offering discounts to 'save lives'
From Abbie Boudreau
CNN
(CNN) -- The owner of a company that sold firearm merchandise to both the Virginia Tech University and Northern Illinois University shooters said he will sell his guns at cost for the next two weeks in hopes that "law-abiding" citizens will buy them to prevent similar tragedies.
"I want to help people save lives," Eric Thompson said Thursday. He was to speak Thursday evening at Virginia Tech University at an event sponsored by Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Thompson made the announcement Wednesday.
"I feel like I have a special responsibility to show people what guns are, what the laws are, and to allow people to protect themselves," Thompson said. "Initially, I wanted this to be an offer for college students," he said. "But there's no real way to determine whether someone is a college student ... so we opened it up to any legal American."
Thompson owns TGSCOM Inc, a Green Bay, Wisconsin-based company that operates about 100 Web sites that sell firearms. Among them are www.topglock.com and www.thegunsource.com, two Web sites that the NIU and Virginia Tech gunmen used to buy firearm merchandise.
Steven Kazmierczak, who killed five students before turning the gun on himself at NIU on February 14, bought two Glock 9 mm magazines and a Glock holster from www.topglock.com.
And Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho bought a Walther P22 from www.thegunsource.com.
Cho killed 32 students and professors before killing himself April 16, 2007.
Don't Miss
* In Depth: Remembering Virginia Tech
* Students want chance to defend themselves
Thompson said he has a "really emotional and raw feeling" about having links to the attacks. "I feel absolutely terrible for the parents, students and schools."
However, he added, "I'm selling a piece of plastic and a piece of metal ... and I think the media focuses on something different. ... I think they should focus on the murderer and not the weapon."
Thompson acknowledged that his guns could again be used in a crime.
"There's a small chance of these discounted guns getting into the hands of the wrong people," he said. But, he added, "as a federally licensed gun dealer, we have to rely on federal background checks."
He emphasized that he thinks he is doing the right thing. "This isn't fun, and this isn't easy," he said. "I could have easily stuck my head in the sand and ignored all of this, but sometimes the easy way to go is not the right thing to do."
He said, "I'm not making a single dime off of this. ... I will probably end up losing thousands and thousands [of dollars]."
Furthermore, he added, he and his family have received threatening phone calls; some included death threats.
"I do not feel I have extreme views," he said. "I think I have open eyes."
NIU did not immediately issue a response to Thompson's offer.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker issued a statement regarding Thompson's appearance there Thursday.
"Free speech is a hallmark of university life," he said. "Still, I find it terribly offensive to learn that the gun-seller of the weapons used in the Virginia Tech campus murders would set foot on this campus."
The statement did not address Thompson's offer, and the school did not immediately reply to a request for a response.
From Abbie Boudreau
CNN
(CNN) -- The owner of a company that sold firearm merchandise to both the Virginia Tech University and Northern Illinois University shooters said he will sell his guns at cost for the next two weeks in hopes that "law-abiding" citizens will buy them to prevent similar tragedies.
"I want to help people save lives," Eric Thompson said Thursday. He was to speak Thursday evening at Virginia Tech University at an event sponsored by Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Thompson made the announcement Wednesday.
"I feel like I have a special responsibility to show people what guns are, what the laws are, and to allow people to protect themselves," Thompson said. "Initially, I wanted this to be an offer for college students," he said. "But there's no real way to determine whether someone is a college student ... so we opened it up to any legal American."
Thompson owns TGSCOM Inc, a Green Bay, Wisconsin-based company that operates about 100 Web sites that sell firearms. Among them are www.topglock.com and www.thegunsource.com, two Web sites that the NIU and Virginia Tech gunmen used to buy firearm merchandise.
Steven Kazmierczak, who killed five students before turning the gun on himself at NIU on February 14, bought two Glock 9 mm magazines and a Glock holster from www.topglock.com.
And Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho bought a Walther P22 from www.thegunsource.com.
Cho killed 32 students and professors before killing himself April 16, 2007.
Don't Miss
* In Depth: Remembering Virginia Tech
* Students want chance to defend themselves
Thompson said he has a "really emotional and raw feeling" about having links to the attacks. "I feel absolutely terrible for the parents, students and schools."
However, he added, "I'm selling a piece of plastic and a piece of metal ... and I think the media focuses on something different. ... I think they should focus on the murderer and not the weapon."
Thompson acknowledged that his guns could again be used in a crime.
"There's a small chance of these discounted guns getting into the hands of the wrong people," he said. But, he added, "as a federally licensed gun dealer, we have to rely on federal background checks."
He emphasized that he thinks he is doing the right thing. "This isn't fun, and this isn't easy," he said. "I could have easily stuck my head in the sand and ignored all of this, but sometimes the easy way to go is not the right thing to do."
He said, "I'm not making a single dime off of this. ... I will probably end up losing thousands and thousands [of dollars]."
Furthermore, he added, he and his family have received threatening phone calls; some included death threats.
"I do not feel I have extreme views," he said. "I think I have open eyes."
NIU did not immediately issue a response to Thompson's offer.
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker issued a statement regarding Thompson's appearance there Thursday.
"Free speech is a hallmark of university life," he said. "Still, I find it terribly offensive to learn that the gun-seller of the weapons used in the Virginia Tech campus murders would set foot on this campus."
The statement did not address Thompson's offer, and the school did not immediately reply to a request for a response.
"Furthermore, he added, he and his family have received threatening phone calls; some included death threats."
I find it ironic that anti-gunners would say things like that.
Post by: Manedwolf on April 28, 2008, 08:42:27 AM
There's quite a few of them who would try to kill you for espousing a cause they consider violent.
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 09:10:48 AM
Quote
Oh, leftists are extremely violent at times. Weather Underground?
The Weather Underground never tried to kill anyone. Who do you think is in my avatar?
Post by: charby on April 28, 2008, 10:27:05 AM
Post by: The Annoyed Man on April 28, 2008, 11:12:43 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 28, 2008, 11:37:31 AM
Post by: mtnbkr on April 28, 2008, 11:52:05 AM
How many bucks is he gonna make by selling guns at cost?
Accessories, consumables, ammo, etc. Plus, customers will return because they feel like they got a "deal".
Chris
Post by: roo_ster on April 28, 2008, 12:19:40 PM
Quote
Oh, leftists are extremely violent at times. Weather Underground?
The Weather Underground never tried to kill anyone. Who do you think is in my avatar?
On the off chance that you did not write that tongue in cheek:
Declaration of a State of War
In 1970, following the police raid that resulted in the death of Black Panther Fred Hampton, the group issued a "Declaration of a State of War" against the United States government, using for the first time its new name, the "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO), adopting fake identities, and pursuing covert activities only. These initially included preparations for a bombing of a U.S. military non-commissioned officers' dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey in what Brian Flanagan said had been intended to be "the most horrific hit the United States government had ever suffered on its territory".[10]
In 1970, following the police raid that resulted in the death of Black Panther Fred Hampton, the group issued a "Declaration of a State of War" against the United States government, using for the first time its new name, the "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO), adopting fake identities, and pursuing covert activities only. These initially included preparations for a bombing of a U.S. military non-commissioned officers' dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey in what Brian Flanagan said had been intended to be "the most horrific hit the United States government had ever suffered on its territory".[10]
Of course, they then proceeded to blow up several of their own in Greenwich Village and had a bit of a re-evaluation in light of their self-immolation.
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 02:57:18 PM
Quote
Accessories, consumables, ammo, etc. Plus, customers will return because they feel like they got a "deal".
Maybe because they did get an awesome deal? What is wrong with people buying accessories?
Quote
On the off chance that you did not write that tongue in cheek:
Nope. Again, avatar,
Quote
Of course, they then proceeded to blow up several of their own in Greenwich Village and had a bit of a re-evaluation in light of their self-immolation.
They didn't blow up there own. 3 of there members accidentally blew themselves up. They never went through with the bombing of the dance because they realized that it would be wrong, which is why they then always left warnings before they bombed a place to make sure that no one got hurt.
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 28, 2008, 03:28:10 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on April 28, 2008, 03:43:12 PM
Quote
Accessories, consumables, ammo, etc. Plus, customers will return because they feel like they got a "deal".
Maybe because they did get an awesome deal? What is wrong with people buying accessories?
Did I say anything was wrong with people buying accessories?
Chris
Post by: nico on April 28, 2008, 03:45:27 PM
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 03:58:31 PM
Quote
Did I say anything was wrong with people buying accessories?
Weren't you implying that he was trying to take advantage of the situation by offering the guns at dealer cost which would cause people to want to buy things like accessories therefore making a profit? Even though he would be losing more money off of the guns than he would be making off of accessories.
Quote
We're supposed to know who's in your avatar? My copy of Google 5.0 does not come with Reverse Image Search. rolleyes
What are these lies that you speak? LIES I say!!
While you might not of, I thought that if they had known about The Weather Underground they might remember what they had looked like. I'm not saying that you are supposed to know who it is either.
Post by: taurusowner on April 28, 2008, 03:59:54 PM
Post by: mtnbkr on April 28, 2008, 04:02:49 PM
Quote
Did I say anything was wrong with people buying accessories?
Weren't you implying that he was trying to take advantage of the situation by offering the guns at dealer cost which would cause people to want to buy things like accessories therefore making a profit? Even though he would be losing more money off of the guns than he would be making off of accessories.
No, I was pointing out that the vendor can still make money by selling the gun at cost because folks will need to buy the items that go along with a gun. No different than how printer manufacturers sell printers at a loss because they make money off the ink and paper.
Chris
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 04:16:30 PM
Quote
No, I was pointing out that the vendor can still make money by selling the gun at cost because folks will need to buy the items that go along with a gun. No different than how printer manufacturers sell printers at a loss because they make money off the ink and paper.
Really the only "accessories" one needs are bullets. And you would have to get those whether or not you paid the gun at full price. Or if you wanted, buy them somewhere else. Or maybe you all ready have them.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 28, 2008, 05:42:15 PM
Really the only "accessories" one needs are bullets. And you would have to get those whether or not you paid the gun at full price. Or if you wanted, buy them somewhere else. Or maybe you all ready have them.
Or maybe you don't. Or maybe you feel compelled to stock up on holsters, ammo, and cleaning supplies because you got a fantastic good deal. Whatever the motivation, the fact remains that some folks will buy gun related *stuff* to go with their new gun, which means the guy will make *some* money, which was the point I was making to HTG when he asked how is this guy going to make any money selling guns at cost. Simple concept really, sell one item at a reduced price because that sale will drive the sale of related products (if for no other reason than the folks are already in the store).
Chris
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 06:11:53 PM
Quote
which was the point I was making to HTG when he asked how is this guy going to make any money selling guns at cost.
So where you merely answering Headless Thompson Gunner or are you in agreement with Paddy?
Post by: nico on April 28, 2008, 06:50:56 PM
nico, do you actually know what firearms cost to the dealer wholesale? Or are you just making assumptions?
I'm making the assumption based on prices people reported paying in the arfcom thread, as well as prices that can easily be researched online. Here's an example: the CZ SP01 is $533 delivered at Bud's Gun Shop and $528.20 + shipping at Guns at Cost. Bud's makes no claims that they're selling their guns at/below cost. If the guy really sells as many guns as the article implies, there's no reason Bud's should be able to get a better price than he does. The 75B SA is $461.10. In Maryland, a state with notoriously high handgun prices (often $50+ more than neighboring states), I paid $500 for mine. Have you looked at the site?
Post by: mtnbkr on April 28, 2008, 07:09:53 PM
Quote
which was the point I was making to HTG when he asked how is this guy going to make any money selling guns at cost.
So where you merely answering Headless Thompson Gunner or are you in agreement with Paddy?
Considering I quoted HTG and not Paddy, one could assume I was responding to HTG. What's your point?
Chris
Post by: freakazoid on April 28, 2008, 07:35:21 PM
Quote
Considering I quoted HTG and not Paddy, one could assume I was responding to HTG. What's your point?
And HTG was questioning Paddy. Therefore I was thinking that you were agreeing with Paddy.
Now if what nico is saying is true then perhaps he is trying to use the situation to make money, and that wouldn't be right. But I haven't read through the arfcom thread.
Post by: nico on April 28, 2008, 07:56:54 PM
Now if what nico is saying is true then perhaps he is trying to use the situation to make money, and that wouldn't be right. But I haven't read through the arfcom thread.
You don't need to read through the arfcom thread. All you have to do is compare his prices to a few other vendors. He's being disingenuous at the very least.
Post by: MicroBalrog on April 29, 2008, 03:59:38 AM
He's not interested in 'saving lives'. He's interested in making a buck in a down economy.
Are the two mutually exclusive?
Post by: taurusowner on April 29, 2008, 10:45:44 AM
Post by: K Frame on April 29, 2008, 11:01:19 AM
You're assuming that every gun dealer in the United States gets the same wholesale price from the distributors they deal with.
They don't.
The differences in what one dealer will pay as compared to another dealer, even dealers in the same area buying from the same distributor, can be quite dramatic.
This man may very well be selling guns at HIS cost; but his cost may not be someone else's cost.
Post by: K Frame on April 29, 2008, 11:16:31 AM
This is not a political thread.
Post by: freakazoid on April 29, 2008, 01:39:13 PM
Quote
Wait, when did we come to the conclusion that at American busniness owner trying to turn a profit in a market based economy is a bad thing?
lol, that is what I was starting to think. You guys are supposed to be the capitalists here,
Quote
You're assuming that every gun dealer in the United States gets the same wholesale price from the distributors they deal with.
Why wouldn't they?
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 29, 2008, 02:33:30 PM
Quote
Wait, when did we come to the conclusion that at American busniness owner trying to turn a profit in a market based economy is a bad thing?
lol, that is what I was starting to think. You guys are supposed to be the capitalists here,
Cute.
Even in a red state, it is considered bad manners to profit from crime, carnage and tragedy. I'm not saying he is, but to allege that capitalism condones all profiteering, no matter how base? Well, that just very hammer-and-sickle of you.
Post by: freakazoid on April 29, 2008, 02:52:02 PM
Quote
Cute. rolleyes Even in a red state, it is considered bad manners to profit from crime, carnage and tragedy. I'm not saying he is, but to allege that capitalism condones all profiteering, no matter how base? Well, that just very hammer-and-sickle of you.
Sigh,
wasn't being serious, trying to be funny. Zooom, right over your head.
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 29, 2008, 03:58:13 PM
Wait, when did we come to the conclusion that at American busniness owner trying to turn a profit in a market based economy is a bad thing?
Mayhap when he claims he is selling at cost. One does not make a profit when selling at cost.
If the gentleman wishes to make a profit -- I have no argument with him. If his price (with profit) beats other dealers' prices (with profit) I might buy from him.
If he wants to sell guns (or widgets) at cost and lose money on every sale -- again I have no argument with him, and I might very well buy from him because probably nobody else is going to be selling at cost.
However ... if he wants to sell at a mark-up while claiming to be selling at cost, THEN I have an argument with him. He's being deceitful, and I prefer not to deal with deceitful people or companies.
Post by: taurusowner on April 29, 2008, 04:26:01 PM
He can be deceitful all he wants. That's the game. The ball is still in your court when you choose not to reward him by not doing busniess with him. How many customers he gains or loses through his tactics will show him what is right and waht is wrong.
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 29, 2008, 04:26:01 PM
Quote
Cute. rolleyes Even in a red state, it is considered bad manners to profit from crime, carnage and tragedy. I'm not saying he is, but to allege that capitalism condones all profiteering, no matter how base? Well, that just very hammer-and-sickle of you.
Sigh,
wasn't being serious, trying to be funny. Zooom, right over your head.With some of your previous comments, it didn't sound like a joke. I was also responding to the line you quoted, which also seems to be in earnest. Hawkmoon has a good response as well.
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 29, 2008, 04:27:15 PM
Actually, capitalism does condone it. But capitalism also gives you and I, the consumers, the ultimate power: don't buy his products. Moaning and hand wringing on an internet forum is pointless. He's doing his job by trying to make profit. You can do you job by not letting him through taking you $$ elsewhere. Free markets are self regulating.
No, it does not condone it. You are confusing "allow" with "condone."
Post by: K Frame on April 29, 2008, 08:21:09 PM
Why? You're joking, right?
The distributors are going to cut better purchase prices for dealers who buy more units at a time, and who buy more frequently.
Among other things, it's called incentive pricing.
WalMart is one of the largest gun dealers in the United States, if not the largest.
Most dealers can't even begin to touch their prices on guns because where a large dealer might buy 10 Remington shotguns at one time, WalMart buys 10,000 at one time.
That's not unique to the firearms industry, either.
Large, high-volume auto dealers get far better prices on cars than small dealers, for example.
Post by: K Frame on April 29, 2008, 08:28:14 PM
What is your basis and proof for claiming that the man is lying about his at-cost price?
Have you examined his dealer transactions and invoices from his suppliers?
Do you know, for a fact, what Camfour, RSR, or Lew Horton charges this particular dealer for the firearms that he purchases from them?
No.
You don't.
As I've explained below, a dealer's unit cost on any particular item is flexible and varies from dealer to dealer.
So, either post your proof that the man is lying about his at-cost price, or issue an apology for speaking out of turn.
Post by: freakazoid on April 30, 2008, 05:59:01 AM
Quote
With some of your previous comments, it didn't sound like a joke.
Thats why I put that smiley, so you would get that it was just a friendly jab. While it is true that I am not a fan of capitalism, doesn't mean I go ranting about it all the time. One of my friends is a pretty hard core libertarian and completely disagrees with me on this issue and yet we still joke about it.
Post by: Perd Hapley on April 30, 2008, 07:58:35 PM
Post by: freakazoid on May 01, 2008, 06:15:30 AM
Quote
WalMart is one of the largest gun dealers in the United States, if not the largest.
Really? They don't seem to have a very big selection of firearms, at least the ones I have been to. Seems to be mostly some hunting rifles, and a few shotguns. Never any "military" stlye rifles, and never any handguns. Although I did see one with a mini-14 once.
Quote
So I have judged your attitude correctly.
My attitude towards capitalism, yes. My attitude in general, I don't think so.
Quote
Why don't you like capitalism, by the way? Hate freedom, or something?
LOL, yes, thats it. You pegged me. I hate freedom. Grrr, that freedom is bad.
. I don't view capitalism as freedom. I view it as an exploitation of the working class. Unnecessary hierarchy in the workforce.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 01, 2008, 01:10:49 PM
Quote
I don't view capitalism as freedom. I view it as an exploitation of the working class. Unnecessary hierarchy in the workforce.
So you do hate freedom. OK, that's all I was asking about.
Post by: freakazoid on May 01, 2008, 02:11:36 PM
Prove it.
Post by: wmenorr67 on May 01, 2008, 02:12:38 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 01, 2008, 02:42:24 PM
Yeah, I'm a Christian anarchist because I hate freedom, Prove it.
Prove it.Your previous post demonstrated it well enough. The use of the term "work force" alone demonstrates a collectivist view. No?
Post by: freakazoid on May 01, 2008, 06:39:25 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 01, 2008, 07:23:21 PM
Quote
Unnecessary hierarchy in the workforce.
It's probably just an innocuous use of a common term, though, so I take it back.
What would be more free than capitalism, then?
Post by: freakazoid on May 01, 2008, 07:37:48 PM
Quote
What would be more free than capitalism, then?
And behold, you answer,
Quote
Yeah, I'm a Christian anarchist ...
edit - And by capitalism as the ultimate freedom are you proposing a laissez faire system then? Because there are different levels of capitalism.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 02, 2008, 02:43:41 PM
Post by: freakazoid on May 03, 2008, 07:51:14 PM
Quote
I never said capitalism was the ultimate freedom. It is merely the economic expression of a free society.
What?
Quote
Funny that you want an anarchic society, but can't handle the "exploitation" that true freedom brings with it. I think we're done here.
Tell me, how someone can be free and exploited at the same time?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on May 03, 2008, 08:10:36 PM
Really the only "accessories" one needs are bullets. And you would have to get those whether or not you paid the gun at full price. Or if you wanted, buy them somewhere else. Or maybe you all ready have them.
Or maybe you don't. Or maybe you feel compelled to stock up on holsters, ammo, and cleaning supplies because you got a fantastic good deal. Whatever the motivation, the fact remains that some folks will buy gun related *stuff* to go with their new gun, which means the guy will make *some* money, which was the point I was making to HTG when he asked how is this guy going to make any money selling guns at cost. Simple concept really, sell one item at a reduced price because that sale will drive the sale of related products (if for no other reason than the folks are already in the store).
Chris
"Loss leader" is, I believe, the marketing term.
Post by: freakazoid on May 04, 2008, 04:22:22 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on May 04, 2008, 04:51:45 PM
What does Los Leader mean?
It's Spanish, the translation is a little obscure.