Post by: taurusowner on May 16, 2008, 11:17:33 AM
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"One guy came up to me and told me -- he didn't like the fact that I was here," recalls Packwood. "He absolutely didn't like the fact that I dated black women."
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"I don't necessarily support him being here, but because he's here and we can't discriminate against other races, I support him and his mission to be successful in life," says Muhammad, a junior. "I just kind of wish he had done it at a different institution."
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Even though he received the support of school administrators, Packwood's scholastic success did not come without some controversy. When word got out that he might become the next valedictorian, some of his classmates - even friends - were admittedly chafed.
"They approached me and said, 'Yeah, I have a problem with you being valedictorian. I know you've earned it and even though I know you on a personal level - I like you a lot - but it disturbs me that out of roughly 3,000 black men - there's not one that's done as well as or better than you academically,' " says Packwood."
"They approached me and said, 'Yeah, I have a problem with you being valedictorian. I know you've earned it and even though I know you on a personal level - I like you a lot - but it disturbs me that out of roughly 3,000 black men - there's not one that's done as well as or better than you academically,' " says Packwood."
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"I think that it should be a wake-up call to an all black campus," says Muhammad. "At Morehouse we're supposed to be at the top as black men. We only have a few white students and to see a white student will rise to this - is something unsettling to me because it shows that we need to work harder."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/16/white.valedictorian/index.html
Now lets play a game. Switch the races around. Pretend that it's a black valedictorian at a mostly white school
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"One guy came up to me and told me -- he didn't like the fact that I was here," recalls Packwood. "He absolutely didn't like the fact that I dated white women."
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Even though he received the support of school administrators, Packwood's scholastic success did not come without some controversy. When word got out that he might become the next valedictorian, some of his classmates - even friends - were admittedly chafed.
"They approached me and said, 'Yeah, I have a problem with you being valedictorian. I know you've earned it and even though I know you on a personal level - I like you a lot - but it disturbs me that out of roughly 3,000 white men - there's not one that's done as well as or better than you academically,' " says Packwood."
"They approached me and said, 'Yeah, I have a problem with you being valedictorian. I know you've earned it and even though I know you on a personal level - I like you a lot - but it disturbs me that out of roughly 3,000 white men - there's not one that's done as well as or better than you academically,' " says Packwood."
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"I think that it should be a wake-up call to an all white campus," says Muhammad. "At Morehouse we're supposed to be at the top as white men. We only have a few black students and to see a black student will rise to this - is something unsettling to me because it shows that we need to work harder."
What would Shaprton's reaction been? The Media? Your own reaction?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
they are allowed to feel resentment and i admire their candor
Post by: taurusowner on May 16, 2008, 02:36:52 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 03:18:43 PM
there are no thought /attitude police and the folks at morehouse are allowed to think and feel what they want. and hopefully grow from it
Post by: seeker_two on May 16, 2008, 04:12:04 PM
Post by: taurusowner on May 16, 2008, 04:16:31 PM
If a whiter person expressing disdain at the success of a black person is racist, why is not the same true when the races are reversed. Can't you just answer that?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 04:33:23 PM
no no yes
who said it wasn't racist or was wrong? besides you?
last i checked you can believe what you like
i've never tried to claim i wasn't racist. not wrong to be one. now how one behaves can be wrong and i strive not to let flaws in my character impact other folks unfairly.
interest and exposure to racism isn't acedemic hi praise folks who can be honest cause thats how folks grow and change.
my interest and experience with racism isn't academic how about yours?
Post by: vernal45 on May 16, 2008, 04:55:26 PM
If you are white = racist
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 05:06:42 PM
its kinda funny to watch white folks trying to convince everyone heck anyone that they aren't racist. i have more respect for the ones who are honest about it. in my life i've found that the brothers and sisters are much more candid about being racist. they don't feel the need to make excuses. some of them do have a harder time aknowledging their racism as it applys to other black folks but some of thats just a circling the wagons thing.
of course some of the other folks on here might have more extensive and different experiences and i'd be interested to hear them
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on May 16, 2008, 07:31:36 PM
its all about being honest.
its kinda funny to watch white folks trying to convince everyone heck anyone that they aren't racist. i have more respect for the ones who are honest about it. in my life i've found that the brothers and sisters are much more candid about being racist. they don't feel the need to make excuses. some of them do have a harder time aknowledging their racism as it applys to other black folks but some of thats just a circling the wagons thing.
of course some of the other folks on here might have more extensive and different experiences and i'd be interested to hear them
As a white folk, I resent your baseless accusation that I am racist. A lot of my close friends are white folks, too. They'd resent your insult just as much as I do. its kinda funny to watch white folks trying to convince everyone heck anyone that they aren't racist. i have more respect for the ones who are honest about it. in my life i've found that the brothers and sisters are much more candid about being racist. they don't feel the need to make excuses. some of them do have a harder time aknowledging their racism as it applys to other black folks but some of thats just a circling the wagons thing.
of course some of the other folks on here might have more extensive and different experiences and i'd be interested to hear them
If you're gonna accuse me and mine of racism, you'd better have some darned good evidence to back it up. So, where's your evidence? Where's your proof? Name an instance, even just one, of any of us exhibiting racism.
Put up or shut up.
Post by: LadySmith on May 17, 2008, 02:49:38 AM
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Now lets play a game. Switch the races around. Pretend that it's a black valedictorian at a mostly white school
Let's not.Let's take the article at face value without involving Sharpton, Jackson or other race baiters/race baiting.
Packwood made valedictorian despite his race and despite the odds. Good on him.
Some racist fools take umbrage at his success. Bad on them.
Others see it as a wake-up call to strive harder in order to follow Packwood's lead. Good on them.
What's the problem?
Maybe that Martin-Luther-King-Dream-Thing has a chance after all.....
I hope so.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 03:02:52 AM
define your "us" for me. or can i just use folks in general?
Post by: Daniel964 on May 17, 2008, 07:15:50 AM
Everyone is racist to some extent. Either a lot, or a little. I know I'm not on the extreme end of racism but I know I am racist in a small way.
It's only through self control that we can try to overcome that part of ourselves.
Now I invite everyone to try and figure out what color I am and what country I come from.
And I'm not going to tell you if you guess right or wrong.
Post by: johnster999 on May 17, 2008, 07:37:22 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 08:53:04 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on May 17, 2008, 10:13:54 AM
There are plenty of people in this country who don't give a flying fig what race you belong to. I'm one of them. I have far more important things to worry about than the color of anyone's skin.
Justifying someone's racism because "everyone else does it too" or because "at lease being he's honest about his racism" is patently stupid.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 10:24:01 AM
what part of the country you live in?
Post by: taurusowner on May 17, 2008, 10:29:22 AM
I do care about the double standard in this country that denounces white people and excuses everyone else for the same behavior.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 10:39:11 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on May 17, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
white guy right? optherwise you'd never have that compulsion to announce.
what part of the country you live in?
Compulsion to announce what?what part of the country you live in?
I live in Indiana.
The only reason I bring any of this up is because you claim that all "white folks" (your term) are racist. Sorry, pal, it just ain't so. You can't use that false claim as a justification or an excuse for other peoples' racism. Even if it were true (it isn't, but even if it were) it still doesn't change things any. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Regardless, you've castigated me as a racist. Back up your charge or retract it.
I want you to acknowledge that not all white folks are racist. I won't let you pretend that there are racist bogeymen hiding beneath every rock.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 10:59:34 AM
where did i say that?
not here i hope
"lets get real no white folks woulda been that honest even the 1/2 or so thinking eactly as you presented"
i have been fairly consistent in saying all folks are racist. its just the white ones squeal when they hear that. hence the need to announce
ever hear me pick on folks with the cell phone test?
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on May 17, 2008, 11:10:17 AM
Sorry, but it isn't all pretend. Many white folks well and truly aren't racist. Many non-white folks well and truly aren't racist. If you think that everyone is racist, then you are sorely mistaken.
I want you to acknowledge that there are lots of people in the world who aren't racists.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 11:26:42 AM
a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor? when last in school how was school demographically?
and the dreaded cell phone test in your address book how many folks not like you racially are in it? not allowed to count domestic help or the amigoes that cut your grass;
maybe your definition of racism is different than mine. how do you define/describe it
Post by: Mabs2 on May 17, 2008, 12:01:31 PM
Every one in my neighborhood wears gang colors. My neighbors are constantly fighting, screaming and blasting stereos at all hours of the night. The guys sit in the car drinking a beer while the woman gets out and pumps gas and goes in to get junk food. Every night I'm positive one of the guys living next door will get high on whatever drugs I've seen them dealing across the street and break in my home.
Would you want to associate with a person like that?
I'm sorry I don't make friends with every black person I see, but that doesn't make me racist.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on May 17, 2008, 12:08:48 PM
this one of those times i'd love to be wrong
a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor? when last in school how was school demographically?
and the dreaded cell phone test in your address book how many folks not like you racially are in it? not allowed to count domestic help or the amigoes that cut your grass;
maybe your definition of racism is different than mine. how do you define/describe it
Nearest black neighbors are a family across the street. I'm guessing they're about 30 yards away.a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor? when last in school how was school demographically?
and the dreaded cell phone test in your address book how many folks not like you racially are in it? not allowed to count domestic help or the amigoes that cut your grass;
maybe your definition of racism is different than mine. how do you define/describe it
I'm not sure about the demographics of my school overall. There were very few black or Hispanic people in my classes, nor were there many women. But there were lots of Asians. Not everyone is drawn to computer programming and electrical engineering, I guess.
The only numbers programmed into my cell phone are immediate family members, all of my own race. They were programmed by my sister. I don't bother with that sort of thing.
Does any of this make me racist?
Racism is judging someone badly based solely on their race, not on their merits. That's precisely what the quoted black students at Morehouse did to the Valedictorian. They judged him as somehow being the wrong man to receive their school's top honor, not because he hadn't earned it academically, but because he didn't have enough pigment in his skin.
Post by: Mabs2 on May 17, 2008, 12:10:42 PM
Post by: Sergeant Bob on May 17, 2008, 12:33:49 PM
For people like him, unless you are "other than" white, you know nothing of racism.
According to him, those students are to be admired for speaking out about their racist feelings. White people who do that are usually called "Klukkers".
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 02:11:58 PM
no argument there
but supposing you don't have an opportunity to judge merit. the classic scene used is you are walking at night alone do you react the same way if you see three black teen agers behind you as you do if the three kids are white?
Post by: Mabs2 on May 17, 2008, 02:24:46 PM
but supposing you don't have an opportunity to judge merit. the classic scene used is you are walking at night alone do you react the same way if you see three black teen agers behind you as you do if the three kids are white?
Yes, I do. But more importantly I look at their behavior. Are they acting like thugs/gangbangers/idiots? Then their style of dress. Are they dressed like thugs/gangbangers/idiots?Still doesn't make me ignore them when they're dressed nicely and acting like mormons, but I do take it into account.
Also, protip: You're assuming that we (white people) WILL act differently depending on the color of some group of teenagers just because we're white. Doesn't that make you racist yourself?
Post by: Balog on May 17, 2008, 02:28:32 PM
You're listing towards McPaddy territory there cdad.
Post by: De Selby on May 17, 2008, 02:29:40 PM
what wrong was done this man? those folks have a right to feel how they feel and the right to epress it. they neither seek nor require your permission or approval. were they acting out this young man wouldn't be valedictorian. the fact they are open enough to epress how they feel in public as well as directly to this young man speaks well of them as well as speaks well of how totally they accept him as a human and classmate. you imagine that were a black guy to be valedictorian of harvard the white kids that resented it would be man enough to tell him? or in your fantasy would none of them have the same kinda resentments?
there are no thought /attitude police and the folks at morehouse are allowed to think and feel what they want. and hopefully grow from it
there are no thought /attitude police and the folks at morehouse are allowed to think and feel what they want. and hopefully grow from it
This is a good take, imho.
Post by: Balog on May 17, 2008, 02:33:18 PM
Saying everyone is racist to justify your own racism is like a pedophile saying "Well everyone thinks of 9 y/o's sexually, I just have the courage to admit it." It's bullshit, it's very insulting, and it's a pathetic excuse to try to slide out of your own problems.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 02:41:05 PM
"If I've been married for over 5 years to a non-white woman does that count? You're listing towards McPaddy territory there cdad."
heck i'm a racist with a black son that i couldn't love more or be prouder of. life is a hoot
and shooting student? can we keep it kinda quiet about us agreeing? i have a reputation to protect
"
"Saying everyone is racist to justify your own racism is like a pedophile saying "Well everyone thinks of 9 y/o's sexually, I just have the courage to admit it." It's bullshit, it's very insulting, and it's a pathetic excuse to try to slide out of your own problems."
theres that white thing again why would anyone try to justify racism? i don't try to justify breathing or the weather they just are. its a thing neither good or bad. its what you do with it that matters. the funniest thing is most black folks understand when i say it only yhe white folks demand explanations.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 17, 2008, 03:01:08 PM
In real-world terms, I'm not a racist. Just the way I was raised, coupled with my religious beliefs. And I DON'T tell Black people about how I used to know a black guy one time. I don't tell them that I've lived with Black room-mates, or about the many black supervisors I've worked for. And I don't tell them that I like blues and rap. I just tell that to weird guys on the internet.
Post by: wideym on May 17, 2008, 04:00:49 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on May 17, 2008, 06:06:15 PM
CDSD, your test is sort of weird. I bet most people would give what I would guess to be passing answers. I don't think I have seen any suburbs around Houston that were all white. The closest thing I can think of might be a small area having $10 million plus homes with a lot of old oil money. I only visited one house in that area though.
I wouldn't term myself a racist. I figure I am certainly prejudiced at times over any number of things including race. I think clothes, cleanliness, and attitude would trigger that more often than race. I think the biggest thing I encounter with black people is that some seem to approach you with an angry or distrustful look/tone. I am generally less talkative with anyone I don't know so the combination is doomed.
I just try to smile and say howdy to anyone I meet and that always helps. As for the OP, congrats to the guy for accomplishing valedictorian. I hope it provides an opportunity for every student at that college to rethink their own attitude about race.
Post by: Jamisjockey on May 18, 2008, 12:27:39 PM
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because it shows that we need to work harder."
His point is obviously that he's bothered that 3,000 black students didn't best a handful of white students in academics.
Post by: richyoung on May 19, 2008, 07:05:36 AM
this one of those times i'd love to be wrong
a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor?
a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor?
2 houses up the block
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when last in school how was school demographically?
asian instructor, 1 asian female student, 2 black male students, 4 white male students
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and the dreaded cell phone test in your address book how many folks not like you racially are in it? not allowed to count domestic help or the amigoes that cut your grass;
3 co-workers, 1 former drummer
Post by: Sergeant Bob on May 19, 2008, 07:10:05 AM
You're reading too much into the statements. Ignore the rest of it and read this part, only:
His point is obviously that he's bothered that 3,000 black students didn't best a handful of white students in academics.
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because it shows that we need to work harder."
His point is obviously that he's bothered that 3,000 black students didn't best a handful of white students in academics.
Excellent point.
Post by: LadySmith on May 20, 2008, 12:51:13 AM
I've learned that there are people out there who will hate and try to hurt you no matter what you are or what you do.
If the Stormfront types killed everyone else off, I'd bet it wouldn't be long before the blondes tried to wipe out the brunettes and the blue-eyed started fighting the green-eyed.
It's how you treat me if we were ever to meet that would determine my sentiment towards you and you alone.
Bravo to the Valedictorian. Everyone else had better hit the books harder.
Post by: RoadKingLarry on May 20, 2008, 05:01:17 AM
this one of those times i'd love to be wrong
a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor? when last in school how was school demographically?
and the dreaded cell phone test in your address book how many folks not like you racially are in it? not allowed to count domestic help or the amigoes that cut your grass;
maybe your definition of racism is different than mine. how do you define/describe it
a lil test/sample if you will. how close is nearest black neighbor? when last in school how was school demographically?
and the dreaded cell phone test in your address book how many folks not like you racially are in it? not allowed to count domestic help or the amigoes that cut your grass;
maybe your definition of racism is different than mine. how do you define/describe it
Meaningless test. Am I responsible for regional demographics? Or should I move because there are not enough black people in the area I live in?
I also don't have any domestic help and I cut my own damn grass. Not only are you projecting your own racial insecurities but also your classist elitism. Who the hell are you to judge anyone else?
Post by: roo_ster on May 20, 2008, 06:38:50 AM
Misanthropy is probably too strong a word for my beliefs, though. More like an understanding of immutable human nature and its barbarity when unleavened by proper socialization in Western culture.
One thing I have noticed is that folks have an affinity for others similar to them. Makes sense, since we are social critters.
I think it is a leap to go from an affinity toward some group and racism/bigotry against another group. Unless given evidence, I would not make such claims against another.