Post by: doc2rn on May 16, 2008, 04:08:44 PM
While listening to the FEMA agent today at city hall I became a little concerned.
The agent stated that since all the technology to make us independent of oil has been bought up by the major oil cartels, it is a matter of when not if the government will fail.
When the Gov. fails FEMA plans to step in and take control of the Topeka-Kansas City area under martial law. Anyone who protests will be thrown in a catacomb prison under Worlds of Fun that has only one entrance/ exit.
FEMA says it will be the restorer of Gov. to the people, not the elected officials.
This kind of got me thinking, what is your personal plan for when FEMA hitteth the oscilating rotator?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 04:17:48 PM
Post by: Mabs2 on May 16, 2008, 04:31:19 PM
Reminds me of Deus Ex.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 04:34:03 PM
Post by: geekWithA.45 on May 16, 2008, 04:55:39 PM
Quote
The agent stated that since all the technology to make us independent of oil has been bought up by the major oil cartels,
I fear this agent was speaking through his....hat.
Im a professional technologist. Part of what I do is study the various technology trees that have evolved over time. You really can't "disappear" a whole branch of a technology tree, particularly a promising one, because the motivation to explore in a promising direction anew is always present, someone will always find their way to the "stump" left by the amputation and try again. Furthermore, the shape of an ~absent~ element also shows up as a glaring neon malformation in the tree, demanding explanation.
To my knowledge, there aren't any energy related malformations or missing shapes.
To some extent, however, the agent does recognize a fundamental truth: petrochemicals are currently the only warmaking capable energy source, and the entire history of the 20th century is one giant game of Go over this warmaking capability.
The simple stark truth is that if you lose your grip on your energy, you lose your grip on your warmaking capability, and if you lose that, your destiny will be decided by others.
Post by: never_retreat on May 16, 2008, 04:59:12 PM
Post by: doc2rn on May 16, 2008, 05:03:48 PM
This guy with a FEMA hat and shirt on was discussing this, in public, with the city manager and the police chief. I couldn't make this kinda stuff up. I was just floored, they where acting like this was business as usual.
Post by: doc2rn on May 16, 2008, 05:07:49 PM
Didn't they also have a hand in that little fiasco after Katrina in NO?
What makes you think they have our best interest at heart?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
hey i've got a swat hat and shirt that must make me swat
Post by: doc2rn on May 16, 2008, 06:15:44 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 06:36:48 PM
Post by: GigaBuist on May 16, 2008, 06:57:54 PM
The sherriff deputies who beat up an elderly woman who showed them her old revolverafter they asked to see it
That was Katrina & the California Highway Patrol.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 16, 2008, 07:07:38 PM
Post by: wmenorr67 on May 16, 2008, 08:21:37 PM
FEMA will not take over the area. If Martial Law is ever declaired it would be the National Guard running the show. FEMA doesn't have the power or a set to do it.
Post by: K Frame on May 16, 2008, 09:04:36 PM
So, he had a FEMA had and shirt, but you don't know for certain that he was really a FEMA employee...
Post by: just Warren on May 16, 2008, 09:34:59 PM
"Didn't expect you so fast."
"30 minutes OR less, sir"
"How much"?
"X$"
5 minutes pass with much dickheadedness about the place
"Here ya go, I rounded up for your tip" (X$ +37 cents)
"Um, thanks."
Knowing what I know now I should have been surprised they didn't tip me 5 grand.
Post by: doc2rn on May 17, 2008, 03:48:37 AM
Mike you are correct I just overheard them discussing a plan, I cant verify he was a FEMA agent.
Post by: MicroBalrog on May 17, 2008, 03:52:39 AM
Quote
The simple stark truth is that if you lose your grip on your energy, you lose your grip on your warmaking capability, and if you lose that, your destiny will be decided by others.
Which is why the Arabs, with plenty of oil, have beaten ISrael time and time again in countless wars.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on May 17, 2008, 05:58:53 AM
Quote
The simple stark truth is that if you lose your grip on your energy, you lose your grip on your warmaking capability, and if you lose that, your destiny will be decided by others.
Which is why the Arabs, with plenty of oil, have beaten ISrael time and time again in countless wars.
And that renders the original statement untrue how?
Post by: Hawkmoon on May 17, 2008, 09:21:44 AM
While listening to the FEMA agent today at city hall I became a little concerned.
The agent stated that since all the technology to make us independent of oil has been bought up by the major oil cartels, it is a matter of when not if the government will fail.
When the Gov. fails FEMA plans to step in and take control of the Topeka-Kansas City area under martial law. Anyone who protests will be thrown in a catacomb prison under Worlds of Fun that has only one entrance/ exit.
FEMA says it will be the restorer of Gov. to the people, not the elected officials.
This kind of got me thinking, what is your personal plan for when FEMA hitteth the oscilating rotator?
FEMA is a civil agency. They have no authority to declare martial law.
However, that would not preclude the .gov from using the military to impose martial law if FEMA asks for it. Sounds like someone should be submitting a bunch of FOIA requests to FEMA for their SHTF planning scenarios.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 09:24:17 AM
Post by: freakazoid on May 17, 2008, 03:05:29 PM
FEMA also at first was turning away people who came to help at Greensburg.
Quote
^ Warren's probably right, by the time they got their collective together we could have overthrown the Gov. and elected Oleg our new President.
lol
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 03:24:22 PM
pay special attention to rob hes from the town and was there as opposed to guessing based on a third hand story from 1000 miles away
Chuck // May 19, 2007 at 5:32 pm
True story, wrong motive implied by writer. The second part of the sentence is the key:
Of the over 350 firearms confiscated by police immediately after the storm, only a third have been returned to their owners.
If this were truly an effort to disarm the population, that third wouldnt have been returned. Ive seen coverage on this from someone without anachist slanting. There was no systematic search for weapons. When weapons were found during the search for survivors and bodies, they were picked up for everyones safety. FEMA has nothing to do with it, local police and rescue workers were doing it long before outside help arrived.
I do partially agree with the writer on the subject of FEMA. It should go back to a supply management role instead of boots on the ground. Hurricane Katrina changed all that with the bogus claims that FEMA should have been there quicker. In Oklahoma, we take care of our own and only look to the Feds for money and supplies.
Also, there was no delay of relief workers. Non-essential people were kept out of the way during search and rescue and since all residents were evacuated as they were found, there was no other need for relief workers. Looting is a very real problem in these situations. If you were staying at your cousin Georges house thirty miles away, would you want strangers poking through your stuff? As people are allowed back in to clean up whatever is left of their homes, there will be volunteers right beside them helping with Salvation Army and Red Cross providing food, water, and cleanup supplies.
Chuck
[Reply]
5 Trevor // May 20, 2007 at 5:19 am
Good comment Chuck. Thanks for contributing your thoughts. No, I wouldnt want strangers poking through my stuff. Terminology is important here, and intent is important. If the weapons were collected by police, not confiscated, with the intent of returning them to their rightful owners, then great. Its good to keep an eye on such events, and discuss them rationally, using the best facts we have available.
[Reply]
6 Earl // May 20, 2007 at 4:44 pm
just returned from Greensburg (grew up there)
The weapons were confiscated and those weapons that were legally owned will be returned.
The were taken so looters couldnt get them.
There were a number of fully automatic weapons that were taken by ATF, and several stolen weapons found and these obviously will not be returned.
The author obviously has an agenda.
Earl.
[Reply]
7 Trevor // May 22, 2007 at 5:23 am
Earl,
We all have an agenda, so I dont mind that, as long as the person is up front about it.
Why would the fully automatic weapons not be returned? Did the owners fail to pay the $200 tax per weapon? Maybe they just didnt want to surrender their 4th amendment rights in exchange for a full auto?
I understand wanting to keep looters out. I understand not returning stolen weapons, and would expect prosecution whenever possible in those cases. Its still legal (if youre willing to surrender your constitutional rights to the feds) to own automatic firearms in many places.
[Reply]
8 Rob // Jul 2, 2007 at 4:27 pm
I was there and yes, guns that were recovered during searches were taken and only returned if they were properly registered.
Something to take note of though is that residents that were staying with friends outside of the community, were searched when leaving to make sure they had no guns.
After hearing of this, people that still were going through debris would stash their guns or take them to a friend that did not have total destruction.
After the first week they no longer did this and that is when people would take there guns out of Greensburg.
Every night just after cerfew a Helicopter would make a couple of flights around the town and then land again. I believe they were scanning the town for residents.
I used to work for a search and rescue organization when I was younger. The sherrif Dept Helicopter would attach an infra red scanner to find people. The device on the outside of the Helicopter looked a lot the same.
[Reply]
Post by: freakazoid on May 17, 2008, 04:00:28 PM
Quote
If this were truly an effort to disarm the population, that third wouldnt have been returned.
What about the other 2/3rds?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 04:09:29 PM
Post by: freakazoid on May 17, 2008, 04:15:11 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 04:18:22 PM
Post by: freakazoid on May 17, 2008, 04:34:21 PM
What we know, 350 firearms where "confiscated". Only 1/3rd have been returned, which means that 2/3rds have not been returned. There were some that were found to of been stolen, and some that were full-auto, and at the time I believe Kansas wasn't a Class3 state yet, which would mean that the full-auto firearms are "illegal"
.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 17, 2008, 04:45:27 PM
Post by: LAK on May 17, 2008, 10:00:24 PM
--------------------------
http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 18, 2008, 03:45:59 AM
Post by: freakazoid on May 18, 2008, 05:59:03 AM
Quote
so you can document the underground prison?
Worlds of Fun is a real place. All that was said is that they would use it.
Quote
or the gun seizures?
Are you seriously suggesting that FEMA didn't confiscate firearms?
Post by: LAK on May 18, 2008, 11:36:01 AM
Cover Risk Management Series Safe Rooms and Shelters Protecting
http://www.fema.gov/library/file?type=originalAccessibleFormatFile&file=fema453_cvr_toc.txt&fileid=409e5f00-4c7f-11db-bb87-000bdba87d5b
Quote
Cover Risk Management Series Safe Rooms and Shelters Protecting People Against Terrorist Attacks FEMA 453 / May 2006 Title page Risk Management Series Safe ...
FEMA 453 / May 2006 Risk Management Series Safe Rooms and Shelters
http://www.fema.gov/library/file?type=originalAccessibleFormatFile&file=fema453_ch4.txt&fileid=39220fa0-4c80-11db-bb87-000bdba87d5b
Quote
... occupants required one or more rest periods during ... required for those evacuating to adjacent population centers. ... housing, and the mass relocation of affected ...
Radiological Emergency Preparedness: Exercise Evaluation Methodology;
Notice
http://www.fema.gov/txt/library/not02_10222.txt
Quote
Relocation: OROs should demonstrate the capability to coordinate
and implement decisions concerning relocation of individuals, not
previously evacuated, to an area where radiological contamination
will not expose the general public to doses that exceed the
relocation PAGs. OROs should also demonstrate the capability to
provide for short-term or long-term relocation of evacuees who lived
in areas that have residual radiation levels above the (first-,
second-, and fifty-year) PAGs.
and implement decisions concerning relocation of individuals, not
previously evacuated, to an area where radiological contamination
will not expose the general public to doses that exceed the
relocation PAGs. OROs should also demonstrate the capability to
provide for short-term or long-term relocation of evacuees who lived
in areas that have residual radiation levels above the (first-,
second-, and fifty-year) PAGs.
Yes, "firearms" in unoccupied homes are considered a "hazard". Certainly any loaded firearm left lying around on the streets might be hazardous to children, but why would a significant number of people leave fireams in their homes if they were "relocating" you might ask? Well, if you travel dot gov to a dot gov "rest and relocation center" you will not be taking your guns with you. Of course the travel guide escorts and the "relocation center" staff will have theirs no doubt ...
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=28118
FEMA: Keep Your Volunteer Experience Safe, FEMA Advises
Quote
Hazardous items
When cleaning storm damaged homes and buildings, hazardous chemicals and items such as firearms and ammunition may be found. These items require special handling by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) because if handled improperly they could blow-up on the spot or in a landfill at a later date.
If firearms, ammo or suspicious substances are found, clear the area and call the EPA emergency line at 1-800-401-1327
When cleaning storm damaged homes and buildings, hazardous chemicals and items such as firearms and ammunition may be found. These items require special handling by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) because if handled improperly they could blow-up on the spot or in a landfill at a later date.
If firearms, ammo or suspicious substances are found, clear the area and call the EPA emergency line at 1-800-401-1327
Anyone read up on REX 84?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug0IL7k3elQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gD25lwjAk
------------------------------------------------
http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 18, 2008, 12:47:33 PM
in kansas? did you seriouly not read what the guy from greensburg said? or the other guy who was from there and just got back? or you strictly a wnd guy
Post by: freakazoid on May 18, 2008, 04:52:03 PM
Yeah I read that, and I also read stuff from other places about people from there. And did you read what LAK posted about there procedure for when they come across a firearm?
Post by: Manedwolf on May 18, 2008, 04:56:13 PM
FEMA does not have any armed people in uniform. It's a bunch of bureaucrats and some people with windbreakers who misdirect aid supplies in circles.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 18, 2008, 05:08:54 PM
Post by: LAK on May 18, 2008, 10:27:20 PM
FEMA do not have armed people in uniform. Uh, yet; just remember what the ATFE used to be ... and what they are now).
They do direct and control the armed local, state and feds in uniform when they take over under their mandates. The key to understanding FEMA is the EOs that give the fed gov authority (the ifs, whens, and whats) for FEMA in any incident of "national significance", declared "state of emergency" etc and the various fed operating plans, regulations and "shall dos" etc in the event of _________ (a long list of things).
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 19, 2008, 02:51:07 AM
Post by: freakazoid on May 19, 2008, 07:41:17 AM
Quote
shhhh don't confuse em with facts and reallity
shhh, stop flaming.
Post by: LAK on May 19, 2008, 10:40:26 PM
Quote
so do you believe they confiscated guns? or not?
Me? No. I mean yes. Well maybe. And that's final.I know guns were seized in NO - I can not speak about other places.
I also know that in the event of any one of a number of types of incidents or disasters, falling under various definitions, and FEMA is given authority to run the show; they have a set mission including things like "continuity of gov", "protection of critical infrastructure" etc etc. They will be directing the uniformed folk with the guns.
If you want to board one of their buses, boxcars etc to go to a "rest and relocation center", "shelter" etc - you will be disarmed. If you live somewhere that is the subject of a "mandatory evacuation order" and want to travel dot.gov - you will be disarmed.
And various gov agencies, incorporating civilian police agencies and military units have conducted exercizes that included collecting firearms from peoples' homes. I think it was in the 1990s that such an exercize took place in (IIRC) Oakland California - I have seen extensive video footage of it with audio.
Post by: 209 on May 19, 2008, 11:56:17 PM
But, where was he now? He could hear the sound of dripping water echoing through the dank, poorly lit room . All of the sudden, he knew! He was in the Worlds of Fun catacombs. That meant he was in the custody of the dreaded FEMAites."
Post by: freakazoid on May 20, 2008, 05:28:57 AM
Post by: MicroBalrog on May 20, 2008, 07:20:28 AM
so do you believe they confiscated guns? or not?
"Are you now or have you ever been..."
Post by: LAK on May 20, 2008, 10:28:57 PM
Post by: Leatherneck on May 21, 2008, 02:35:56 AM
They do have a thuggish, somewhat LE-flavor about them.
TC
Post by: Manedwolf on May 21, 2008, 05:16:00 AM
I see them as a bunch of career bureaucrats who couldn't find their posterior with both hands.
STUPID career bureaucrats, at that.
I remember seeing one proclaim that they couldn't send any boats to the NO convention center waterfront to pick up the stranded and hungry survivors because "there was debris in the water", and something else about depth from sediment.
Huh. Now, what kind of boat was designed to operate with a shallow draft, in waters often filled with debris and logs, with its propulsion at the stern instead on on the sides so as not to be fouled by debris in the water? Something that might be found...in the Mississippi? Something often used as casinos now, that the government could have paid to rent for rescue purposes?
Gee. I have no idea...
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 21, 2008, 05:35:24 AM
Post by: GigaBuist on May 21, 2008, 08:04:32 AM
so anyone wanna stand up andgive something other than looneytoons blogs as documentation of the " kansas gungrab" a name? anything ?
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=2994
Looks like officers scooped up guns from the rubble and locked them away for safe keeping. So long as they've been reasonable about returning them I have no problem with it.
Post by: MicroBalrog on May 21, 2008, 11:43:15 PM
Quote
STUPID career bureaucrats, at that.
I believe you repeat yourself there.
Post by: Balog on May 22, 2008, 05:32:30 AM
Post by: Scout26 on May 22, 2008, 07:02:13 AM
This guy with a FEMA hat and shirt on was discussing this, in public, with the city manager and the police chief. I couldn't make this kinda stuff up. I was just floored, they where acting like this was business as usual.
And last week he was a DEA agent in Missouri........