Post by: Ben on June 10, 2008, 03:10:32 PM
I've generally shined this on in the past, but am now getting called on it, so am wondering if it's common practice in other agencies.
Post by: Gewehr98 on June 10, 2008, 03:19:55 PM
Outside that pre-defined "local area" it was either TDY or even leave, because you couldn't be expected to return to your duty station in a reasonable amount of time if a recall were to happen.
Of course, that didn't mean people payed attention to the rule...
Post by: charby on June 10, 2008, 04:00:08 PM
I work for a state university.
Post by: Leatherneck on June 11, 2008, 12:07:04 AM
Now we have to submit using the on-line Defense Travel System, which has a high error rate, but is quick. Still no orders required unless I want to get paid for the whole 101 miles to/from home for a day trip. If I'm willing to accept 72 miles (equivalent to the Pentagon/Pax trip) I can file without orders.
TC
Post by: Boomhauer on June 11, 2008, 07:19:28 AM
If we are going to training or some such official business, we just grab a vehicle and go, gassing up as needed (we have fuel cards in each vehicle, we enter the mileage and vehicle # at the pump).
Or, we can take our own vehicles and be reimbursed at the appropriate rates (28.5 cents per mile if a .gov rig is available, or 48 cpm if not)
I don't dare abuse the system.
Post by: Firethorn on June 11, 2008, 07:41:03 AM
Still no orders required unless I want to get paid for the whole 101 miles to/from home for a day trip. If I'm willing to accept 72 miles (equivalent to the Pentagon/Pax trip) I can file without orders.
TC
TC
How are you able to game/scam the system to get 72 personal travel miles for free when you go home for "day trips" when you aren't actually going to the Pentagon or Pax River? Better not get caught. What's your command? Why not game/scam a farther trip so you can steal those extra 29 miles?
I think what he was refering to is that if he goes on a trip from home station to Pax river(for whatever reason), he used to be able to obtain compensation without having to fill out orders. Now, if he wants full compensation he needs orders. Problem - that's such a pain in the butt that claiming only 72 miles is less work, even though he gets less money.
It'd be like having a $80 taxi trip, but you lost the receipt, so you only claim the maximum 'receiptless' allowed amount - $50 because the lost receipt form is such a pain.
Post by: mtnbkr on June 11, 2008, 07:44:51 AM
Tone it down dtemplar.
Chris
Post by: mtnbkr on June 11, 2008, 07:53:00 AM
I didn't read it that way because he specifically said going home for a "day trip" and not that he was combining it with business he might have at Pax/Pentagon. I'm sure the taxpayers love this practice.
How do you know what he means by "home". Might be home station, might be his house, might be anything. He might even work from home and those trips to Pax or the Pentagon are billable travel.
Chris
Post by: mtnbkr on June 11, 2008, 07:59:04 AM
Chris
Post by: mtnbkr on June 11, 2008, 08:06:59 AM
You should spend more time reading and less time posting considering you just joined us today.
Chris
Post by: ilbob on June 11, 2008, 08:38:40 AM
I pointed out to my boss on several occasions that it was costing them almost $1 for me to pay the 15 cent toll due to the wait. They did not care. Was corporate policy. I suggested they get a change jar for the squad and pay tolls out of it. No - also against corporate policy.
They did have an unreceipted expense reimbursement form though. You had to fill it out and get it notarized.
Post by: Firethorn on June 11, 2008, 09:01:55 AM
I didn't read it that way because he specifically said going home for a "day trip" and not that he was combining it with business he might have at Pax/Pentagon. I'm sure the taxpayers love this practice.
They should, they're getting 101 mile trip out of him for the cost of a 76 mile one. He wasn't claiming all his mileage, because the extra milage trips extra reporting requirements that aren't worth the extra $10 or so he'd get if he got orders. Or my lost receipt.
Still, last time I was looking at taking some leave while TDY. I was going to Keesler for training. I wanted to fly to Orlando after that to visit family, since flying from Keesler to Orlando is much cheaper than flying from Minot. Then take a plane home. DESPITE this working out as cheaper for them(I was going to pay for the keesler-Orlando flight), Nope, they'd only pay to fly me to/from Keesler. Talk about pain in the butt.
On the statment, I saw it as 'to/from home', IE a round trip. A 'daytrip' in the sense that he's not overnighting. All reimbursements require supervisor's signature at the least, and are subject to audits. Needing orders means a bunch of hassle, planning, endorsements, etc...
In my case, it'd be like taking an hour to fill out orders for a trip to Bismark or Grand Forks - you can almost drive there faster than you can get orders done.
Post by: Sawdust on June 11, 2008, 09:16:40 AM
I hate when school lets-out for the summer and the children have nothing to do.
Sawdust
Post by: Firethorn on June 11, 2008, 09:46:36 AM
So, according to you, I guess a shop keeper should be "happy" that a kid only steals 75% of the candy from the jar on the counter instead of all of it, right?
More like you, as a homeowner, has a right to be happy when the .gov undervalues your house for tax purposes by 25%. Or the store gives you four for the price of 3.
The trips are already authorized, reimbursable expenses. Due to government rules, travel orders are necessary if he wants to claim the full 101 miles. If he 'merely' claims 72, he doesn't need orders. He considers the $10 or so he loses in reimbursable mileage as worth the reduced paperwork/hassle.
For the purpose of the voucher, Pax river is 31 miles closer than it really is.
Post by: charby on June 11, 2008, 09:49:59 AM
Dammit, is it June already?
I hate when school lets-out for the summer and the children have nothing to do.
Sawdust
I hate when school lets-out for the summer and the children have nothing to do.
Sawdust
Hi, wanna go shoot marbles or something?
Quit being a jackass.
Post by: mtnbkr on June 11, 2008, 09:55:57 AM
Didn't think so...
Chris
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on June 11, 2008, 09:59:29 AM
We had a similar issue recently, but I can't seem to remember the creaton's name....
We gave him quite a few warnings to cut it out, and he seemed think, and to not get the point.
I trust you are a little smarter?
Post by: mtnbkr on June 11, 2008, 10:07:13 AM
And I've politely asked for clarification, which has been lacking thereby making it look even more suspicious.
Maybe allow some time considering he may or may not be near an internet connection? Someone whose work sites include the Pentagon and Pax River might not have open access to the Internet the entire day.
Chris
Post by: Leatherneck on June 11, 2008, 11:12:30 AM
Quote
How are you able to game/scam the system to get 72 personal travel miles for free when you go home for "day trips" when you aren't actually going to the Pentagon or Pax River? Better not get caught. What's your command? Why not game/scam a farther trip so you can steal those extra 29 miles?
What manner of deranged thinking allows you to mis-read a post, assume the worst, and call me a thief. I think firethorn answered your childish, argumentative, and ignorant rant pretty well. Sorry I wasn't able but I've been working at the Pentagon since 0630 and just got a chance to see your mess. Where did you come from anyway? Are your defiencies in reading comprehension and logic--not to mention manners--genetic or learned? There is help available.
TC
Post by: Balog on June 11, 2008, 11:20:22 AM
Quote from: Leatherneck
Are your defiencies in reading comprehension and logic--not to mention manners--genetic or learned?
A burn worthy of Mtnbkr. You officially win this thread Leatherneck.
Oh, and stop feeding the troll guys.
Post by: Firethorn on June 11, 2008, 11:34:49 AM
As in my candy jar analogy, just because it's there does not make stealing it right. If it ain't for business, then there should be no reimbursement, plain and simple.
From his phrasing, I personally get the hint it ain't for pleasure. You think that they'd just let him out of work for what'll be effectively the whole day? 101 miles one way = 202 miles, or over 4 hours of travel time. Figure 4 hours doing whatever at the destination, there's the whole day gone. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he spends 8 or more hours there, in addition to the driving time.
Quote
The money not spent at the end of the fiscal year can be rolled over or used on other needed expenses instead of being blown on someone joyriding home on their own personal time.
Obviously you've never studied federal government/military budgeting. Money NOT spent at the end of the fiscal year = money gone, and often money gone from budget permanently(IE They obviously gave you more than you need, so your budget is reduced from then on).
It also indicates, at best, an unfamiliarity with military terminology and working methods. You're the only one suggesting that Leather's travel isn't for work.
Post by: K Frame on June 11, 2008, 11:38:47 AM
Answer this question...
Why should you be here at all?
Post by: Leatherneck on June 11, 2008, 02:53:17 PM
TC
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 11, 2008, 08:20:33 PM
Post by: Gewehr98 on June 11, 2008, 08:27:25 PM
However, deleting them denies the late BlackCash/DTemplar/Kimberpro the enjoyment of any posting legacy he might have intended prior to getting banned each time.
You can say we've adopted a scorched-earth policy, as it were.
Post by: Leatherneck on June 12, 2008, 01:03:01 AM
Quote
Chris,
I don't mind responding to you, but I can't begin to explain how offensive that ahole got--real fast. Please put up a firewall to block his IP address. For Evar.
Facts:
1. 101 miles from casa del Leatherneck to Pax River.
2. 72 miles from Pentagon to Pax River.
3. I often attend all-day (read: 0800-1600) meetings, discussions, test events, etc. at Pax River as part of my job.
4. I travel via POV when I do so. Authorized on a permanent basis.
5. Such trips are classified as "local travel" under DoD travel regulations, and we're entitled to reimbursement at a per-mile rate for same. (You may recall this was the point of the original discussion before Butthead hijacked it.)
6. The reimbursement is based on how far the destination is from the duty station; in my case, the Pentagon.
7. In lieu of leaving at 0430 and traveling to the Pentagon in rush hour, I opt to leave at 0600 from home and taking the longer route through Fredericksburg, King George, Dahlgren, and the 301 bridge to Pax River: longer distance, but faster in the morning. Same logic in reverse at night.
8. Such days are normally long ones, for which I get no extra compensation beyond travel mileage.
9. I wind up filing a travel claim for the (shorter) mileage from Pentagon to Pax, although I don't actually do that. I lose.
Tom
I don't mind responding to you, but I can't begin to explain how offensive that ahole got--real fast. Please put up a firewall to block his IP address. For Evar.
Facts:
1. 101 miles from casa del Leatherneck to Pax River.
2. 72 miles from Pentagon to Pax River.
3. I often attend all-day (read: 0800-1600) meetings, discussions, test events, etc. at Pax River as part of my job.
4. I travel via POV when I do so. Authorized on a permanent basis.
5. Such trips are classified as "local travel" under DoD travel regulations, and we're entitled to reimbursement at a per-mile rate for same. (You may recall this was the point of the original discussion before Butthead hijacked it.)
6. The reimbursement is based on how far the destination is from the duty station; in my case, the Pentagon.
7. In lieu of leaving at 0430 and traveling to the Pentagon in rush hour, I opt to leave at 0600 from home and taking the longer route through Fredericksburg, King George, Dahlgren, and the 301 bridge to Pax River: longer distance, but faster in the morning. Same logic in reverse at night.
8. Such days are normally long ones, for which I get no extra compensation beyond travel mileage.
9. I wind up filing a travel claim for the (shorter) mileage from Pentagon to Pax, although I don't actually do that. I lose.
Tom
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 12, 2008, 01:15:55 AM