Post by: Bigjake on June 14, 2008, 09:30:45 AM
Aside from potential harassment by ignorant cops, why shouldn't I open carry? a 1911 on my hip in a well supported leather holster would be SO much nicer than burying this stupid airwieght Smith in a pocket or IWB (which then requires me to either wear an undershirt of tolerate sweaty-nasty abrasion.)
Ideas? I'm in Ohio, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't any goofy statutes lurking that would give me grief.
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 14, 2008, 09:38:52 AM
Other people (and a lot of the instructors down here in the desert) think it prevents crime because people will not initiate a violent encounter.
Yet others, like me, think it's just plain awesome aesthetically.
Also Opencarry.org lists the carry laws of the various tates.
Post by: Bigjake on June 14, 2008, 09:49:30 AM
I appriciate the link, it's helpful.
What I'm trying to figure out is, are you allowed to open carry in places that have those "no concealed weapons" signs?? Aside from the obvious .gov buildings and courtrooms, it appears you can, by law, open carry just about anywhere.
??
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 14, 2008, 10:53:14 AM
In Arizona its commonplace to see someone open carrying. Haven't tried here in WVA yet. Heck, I just got my WVA CHL permit yesterday.
Post by: zahc on June 14, 2008, 11:00:18 AM
Of course, I moved to ever-so-gunfriendly communist texas, where it's both twice as hot and open carry is illegal.
Post by: Standing Wolf on June 14, 2008, 12:59:11 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on June 14, 2008, 01:01:01 PM
If that's okay with you, go right ahead. Even if it's not really a valid charge (disturbing the peace), you'll need to pay for a lawyer. If you have the disposable income for that, that's entirely up to you.
Quote
What I'm trying to figure out is, are you allowed to open carry in places that have those "no concealed weapons" signs??
They can and probably will ask you to leave, and at that point, you have to comply. If you don't, you will be arrested for trespassing.
Also keep in mind that guns are expensive items, and wearing one in the open is like wearing a Rolex. If there's a group of people who want a gun and can't buy one, or want one to fence, if they see your gun, they have incentive to plot to sneak up on you and ambush you to take it, in a group pile-on or a sudden blow to the back of the head. If you wouldn't wear a diamond Rolex in public, why would you wear a $600+ gun for people to see?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 14, 2008, 01:29:13 PM
interesting stretch that. using an unarmed guy as an example of the risks of open carry
Post by: Manedwolf on June 14, 2008, 01:30:22 PM
"If someone gets alarmed and calls the cops, you can still be arrested for disturbing the peace. And, of course, you risk the chances of a twitchy cop. "PutTheGunDownDROPIT*BANG*"....oops. It's happened to an optometrist who wasn't even armed, being arrested for being a bookie. ND right in the head."
interesting stretch that. using an unarmed guy as an example of the risks of open carry
interesting stretch that. using an unarmed guy as an example of the risks of open carry
It's not a stretch. I try to do everything I can to not appear to be a threat to the police, to not have their attention on me. The fact that they NDed a guy who wasn't armed has nothing to do with it, I'm speaking of WHY you don't want the police pointed at you if you can help it. Open carry is an act that is more likely than not to have police considering you a threat at some point. Makes sense?
Post by: Standing Wolf on June 14, 2008, 04:34:52 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on June 14, 2008, 04:56:15 PM
People who are afraid to exercise our civil rights don't still have them.
Just because we have the first amendment, is it wise to stand in a shopping mall and shout at the top of your lungs for no reason at all? Or will that just get you odd looks?
Rights has nothing to do with it.
Post by: Lennyjoe on June 14, 2008, 05:24:30 PM
Quote
People who are afraid to exercise our civil rights don't still have them
Not so sure I agree with you on that one.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 14, 2008, 10:47:33 PM
Quote from: Manedwolf
Also keep in mind that guns are expensive items, and wearing one in the open is like wearing a Rolex. If there's a group of people who want a gun and can't buy one, or want one to fence, if they see your gun, they have incentive to plot to sneak up on you and ambush you to take it, in a group pile-on or a sudden blow to the back of the head. If you wouldn't wear a diamond Rolex in public, why would you wear a $600+ gun for people to see?
So, guns are not a deterrent to crime?
Also, I thought one reason to support concealed carry was that criminals will never know who is carrying, so they must fear that any intended target might have a gun. But by your logic, concealed carry should lead to an increase in muggings, because more people will be carrying expensive objects that are easy to steal.
People who are afraid to exercise our civil rights don't still have them.
I often disagree with Standing Wolf, when he trots out that line. But he's got it in the right context here. Manedwolf, you're thinking more like a subject than a free citizen.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 14, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
I often disagree with Standing Wolf, when he trots out that line. But he's got it in the right context here. Manedwolf, you're thinking more like a subject than a free citizen.
I don't think I am. The rights are there to be used and expressed when they're appropriate.
Shouting in public spaces is free speech, but it'll get you funny looks.
You can also walk up to military officers and remind them that their soldiers can't be quartered in your house. But why would you?
So you have the right to carry openly...is it always appropriate to? You have the right, yes...why constantly put it in everyone's face when it tends to cause problems? All that does it give fuel to the antis "gun nut" arguments, IMO.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 14, 2008, 10:50:55 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 14, 2008, 11:10:10 PM
Post by: seeker_two on June 15, 2008, 04:00:09 AM
If someone gets alarmed and calls the cops, you can still be arrested for disturbing the peace. And, of course, you risk the chances of a twitchy cop. "PutTheGunDownDROPIT*BANG*"....oops. It's happened to an optometrist who wasn't even armed, being arrested for being a bookie. ND right in the head.
That kind of LEO behavior deserves return fire....not anti-open carry arguements...
Post by: atomd on June 15, 2008, 08:19:57 AM
Post by: The Annoyed Man on June 15, 2008, 08:33:53 AM
Post by: RocketMan on June 15, 2008, 09:05:12 AM
The biggest problem with open carry is that our schools and media are both teaching children and young adults to have an irrational fear of guns.
This is very true. IMO, we need to work toward making open carry acceptable everywhere. Something that is an accepted and commonplace practice stops being an issue. It doesn't draw hostile comment. That is where we need to be with open carry.
Wouldn't it be great if the only public comments one heard regarding the open carry of a handgun were along the lines of, "Hey, is that a new [insert favorite brand here]?", or "What's your favorite kind of holster?"
Post by: The Annoyed Man on June 15, 2008, 09:58:18 AM
The biggest problem with open carry is that our schools and media are both teaching children and young adults to have an irrational fear of guns.
This is very true. IMO, we need to work toward making open carry acceptable everywhere. Something that is an accepted and commonplace practice stops being an issue. It doesn't draw hostile comment. That is where we need to be with open carry.
Wouldn't it be great if the only public comments one heard regarding the open carry of a handgun were along the lines of, "Hey, is that a new [insert favorite brand here]?", or "What's your favorite kind of holster?"
Yes, that is the world I dream about living in.
Post by: 86thecat on June 15, 2008, 07:07:57 PM
Post by: Hawkmoon on June 15, 2008, 07:28:42 PM
So you have the right to carry openly...is it always appropriate to? You have the right, yes...why constantly put it in everyone's face when it tends to cause problems? All that does it give fuel to the antis "gun nut" arguments, IMO.
Always appropriate? Probably not. But when the temperatire is 96 degrees F. and the humidity level isn't far behind, having to either wear an uncomfortable cover garment or adapt from my normal OWB holster to an uncomfortable IWB rig or shift to a smaller weapon that'll fit in a pocket is both a nuisance and an infringement. I think it's completely appropriate to carry openly in an OWB holster and wear just a tee shirt on such days. If it makes people uncomfortable to see a fellow citizen wearing a gun ... that's just proof that not enough citizens openly wear guns. Open carry should not be cause for any furor.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 15, 2008, 07:37:50 PM
So you have the right to carry openly...is it always appropriate to? You have the right, yes...why constantly put it in everyone's face when it tends to cause problems? All that does it give fuel to the antis "gun nut" arguments, IMO.
Always appropriate? Probably not. But when the temperatire is 96 degrees F. and the humidity level isn't far behind, having to either wear an uncomfortable cover garment or adapt from my normal OWB holster to an uncomfortable IWB rig or shift to a smaller weapon that'll fit in a pocket is both a nuisance and an infringement.
I wear a guayabera, or Cuban shirt, a long, ultra-light linen buttondown to cover in hot weather. It's absolutely ideal for that. Just be sure to get one in linen or Egyptian cotton, not crappy Chinese cotton that shrinks.
http://www.mycubanstore.com/page/MC/CTGY/Linen_Guayaberas
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 15, 2008, 08:32:36 PM
The biggest problem with open carry is that our schools and media are both teaching children and young adults to have an irrational fear of guns. If that doesn't change we're all screwed.
That is why it is up to us, the parents of said children and young adults to teach them at a younger age that there is nothing to fear of guns.
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 15, 2008, 11:01:40 PM
Quote
IMO, we need to work toward making open carry acceptable everywhere.
And you do that by carrying.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 15, 2008, 11:07:12 PM
Quote
IMO, we need to work toward making open carry acceptable everywhere.
And you do that by carrying.
I believe another one of your "free state" people was just arrested for disturbing the peace by doing that.
At this rate, they're going to get the laws changed to ban open carry in certain areas. I hope they'll be proud.
Post by: MicroBalrog on June 15, 2008, 11:11:43 PM
I believe another one of your "free state" people was just arrested for disturbing the peace by doing that.
Countdown for lawsuit, then. If you are arrested while peacefully going about your business and not doing anything illegal, then you should sue
Further, as you well know - because you posted in multiple threads where this was discussed - there is a bunch of such protests across the US, by the VCDL and others. Under your argument, open carry will soon be banned everywhere.