Post by: Nitrogen on June 29, 2008, 07:15:19 PM
Look at this! Liberals are noticing what you folks have noticed.
Quote from: The Huffington Post
Sen. Barack Obama is risking his brand as a political reformer, according to reports today in the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post. In recent weeks, he has moderated or changed positions on a number of politically-charged issues, leading to criticism from demoralized Democratic activists and charges of "flip-flopping" from conservatives.
The Times reports:
In recent weeks, he toughened his stance on Iran and backed an expansion of the government's wiretapping powers. On Wednesday, he said states should be allowed to execute child rapists. When the Supreme Court the next day struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, he did not complain...
The Times reports:
In recent weeks, he toughened his stance on Iran and backed an expansion of the government's wiretapping powers. On Wednesday, he said states should be allowed to execute child rapists. When the Supreme Court the next day struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, he did not complain...
Post by: Manedwolf on June 29, 2008, 07:24:03 PM
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
Post by: Fly320s on June 30, 2008, 03:37:31 AM
Quote
Look at this! Liberals are noticing what you folks have noticed.
It seems to me that everyone, regardless of political leanings, distrusts candidates who change their official position to match the moods of the populace. It shows a distinct lack of backbone.
Post by: grampster on June 30, 2008, 04:59:40 AM
Post by: The Annoyed Man on June 30, 2008, 12:38:24 PM
If the congress was safely a R majority, I actually think it would be fun to watch an Obama presidency. The legislature could hold him in check, but it'd be fun to see how he'd operate.
It would probably operate the same way Bush's presidency worked, only vice-versa.
The republican congress will give the democratic president what he wants, and in return, the president will ask congress to throw in something he wants, or else he won't sign it. Everyone in Washington will pat each other on the back and claim compromise for the good of America, and the citizens will suffer for it.
Post by: old school on June 30, 2008, 04:18:53 PM
That's how they roll in Chicago.
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
The two worst I have seen in that regards were Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.
Post by: old school on June 30, 2008, 04:20:33 PM
If the congress was safely a R majority, I actually think it would be fun to watch an Obama presidency. The legislature could hold him in check, but it'd be fun to see how he'd operate.
It would probably operate the same way Bush's presidency worked, only vice-versa.
The republican congress will give the democratic president what he wants, and in return, the president will ask congress to throw in something he wants, or else he won't sign it. Everyone in Washington will pat each other on the back and claim compromise for the good of America, and the citizens will suffer for it.
That's the game for sure. Everything is a trade off.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 30, 2008, 04:23:40 PM
That's how they roll in Chicago.
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
The two worst I have seen in that regards were Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.
Then you need to talk to people who live in Chicago. There's an added dimension of unrepentant "So what're you gonna do about it?" to the corrupt politics there.
Post by: old school on June 30, 2008, 04:39:22 PM
That's how they roll in Chicago.
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
Pols support...themselves! Whatever is best for themselves at the moment.
The two worst I have seen in that regards were Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.
Then you need to talk to people who live in Chicago. There's an added dimension of unrepentant "So what're you gonna do about it?" to the corrupt politics there.
Nothing new there. That is standard behavior for those who abuse power. That's why you can't let them have too much. That is why we are a nation of laws.
Post by: Waitone on July 06, 2008, 02:08:15 PM
Shift to today where Big Media is increasingly irrelevant. We no longer are held hostage to news delivered in 20 minutes at certain times of the day. No longer are we limited to news feeds from just a few gathering agents. Those of us in flyover country have learned our lesson years ago. Seems politicians have not yet fully accepted the new reality. They are no longer free to tailor messages to different groups if the tailoring involves contradictory positions. Too many bloggers, talk radio, and pundits out there to get away with what we now call flip-flops.
All of which makes me wonder is one of the attractions of candidates campaigning in foreign countries (limited for now to McCain but soon to include O'Bama) is the comparative and temporary lack of domestic scrutiny by the alternative media. Well, that and raising cash.
Post by: wmenorr67 on July 06, 2008, 08:24:58 PM
Quote
All of which makes me wonder is one of the attractions of candidates campaigning in foreign countries (limited for now to McCain but soon to include O'Bama) is the comparative and temporary lack of domestic scrutiny by the alternative media. Well, that and raising cash.
Because more and more Americans worry about how other countries will like our leaders. Quite frankly I could give a rat's a$$ what any other country thought of our leaders. They are our leaders and we are the greatest and most powerful country on earth. Get over it and deal with who ever we elect.
Post by: MechAg94 on July 07, 2008, 04:12:36 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on July 07, 2008, 04:17:37 AM
I think that is done more to bolster foreign policy/relations experience or image. I am surprised Obama hasn't tried to do it, but he would probably visit the wrong leaders.
He's done worse, remember? He said that we can't just eat as much as we want and expect the rest of the world will be okay with it.
Post by: LAK on July 14, 2008, 04:15:28 AM
I have seen one Hillary bumper sticker, not a single McCain sticker, but still seeing alot of Obama bumper stickers.
--------------------------------------
http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
Post by: Manedwolf on July 14, 2008, 04:16:40 AM
People seem to have amnesia cycles in this country; by the time November comes around, he will have flopped around a complete circle, and most people will have completely forgotten.
I have seen one Hillary bumper sticker, not a single McCain sticker, but still seeing alot of Obama bumper stickers.
--------------------------------------
http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
I have seen one Hillary bumper sticker, not a single McCain sticker, but still seeing alot of Obama bumper stickers.
--------------------------------------
http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
I see lots of McCain stickers, a few Hillary stickers, and about the same for yard signs. Only one Obama sticker, and it was on a Pious with MA plates.
Post by: El Tejon on July 14, 2008, 04:38:53 AM
I have a NRA-Life, Illinois and Indiana state associations window decals on my SUV.
Post by: mtnbkr on July 14, 2008, 04:48:04 AM
Chris
Post by: RocketMan on July 14, 2008, 05:37:05 AM
No McCain stuff or Hillary stuff anymore. At least nothing of note.
Oregon is solidly Obama territory. All of my siblings, and I suspect my parents, will vote for him. In discussing the subject with them, it's like they have lost all rationality. Their support for this guy is all emotion based.
Sigh...
Post by: longeyes on July 14, 2008, 05:55:29 AM
Post by: mtnbkr on July 14, 2008, 06:04:47 AM
Republicans avoid stickers and placards. They know what happens when zealous leftists get inflamed by the sign of opposition. Another sorry symptom of our times.
Really? I've had an anti-Obama sticker on my car for about a month now and nothing worse than compliments have been hurled my way. It goes well with the NRA sticker that has lived on the back window of my car for as long as I've owned it. I'm in Northern Virginia, within spitting distance of DC.
Chris
Post by: longeyes on July 14, 2008, 07:00:28 AM
Where I live--Los Angeles--you run the risk of getting your car keyed if you have an NRA sticker displayed. I keep my membership to myself, along with my political allegiances.
Post by: MechAg94 on July 14, 2008, 08:20:17 AM
Post by: doc2rn on July 14, 2008, 08:40:25 AM
Post by: Declaration Day on July 14, 2008, 02:45:36 PM
Second, I don't feel it's an effective way to influence others' opinions. The drivers behind me don't care what I believe in, they just want to get from point A to point B.
Some stickers, such as "Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry" are downright childish. Most of those can be found on cars belonging to union workers. It's funny how some of them revere the union life almost as a religion, but that's a topic for another thread.
Post by: longeyes on July 14, 2008, 03:59:39 PM
I think it's a bit too early to say that the MSM are irrelevant. We'll know in November how irrelevant they were. If Obama wins the MSM will have played a huge part in shaping his victory, not just by what they run but by what they don't. It's true that people have other information sources but the people who do that level of recon are a minority and unlikely to be swept up in the general medieval hysteria that the Left foments. I think most Americans are still willfully information-starved.
Post by: FiveBillionAcres on July 16, 2008, 09:03:14 PM
If candidates are campaigning more and more in foreign countries it might be because foreigners have increasingly more to say about the direction of this nation. That will be even more true after the next Election. Someone wants it that way.
What?! You mean there might be an organized plot by the world's elite to shift power ever higher into a smaller and smaller group while at the same time convincing the masses that they are becomming more progressive and better off?
Power went from the individual to the state and then to the union and now it's progressing to the world wide community which is NOT directed by democracy but the elites. The UN wants to ban private small arms ownership, do you really think most of the people of the world are up for this? No it's to stop revolutions.
Maybe Republicans SHOULD use more bumperstickers, people like to get behind a winner, My extended family is visiting and their 3 kids are all like OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! yet not one of them could tell me why they would vote for him or how he was any different from McCain. Their parents couldn't explain to me why he was a better candidate than McCain other than he wasn't a "war monger" which he's showing himself to be more of than McCain!
As for flip flopping and moving his policies more towards the center (which I don't think Obama is actually doing) perhaps with some politicians it's not flip flopping so much as taking a stand which they feel best represents the majority of the people which they would represent? Regardless of their own opinions on a topic... yeah but there's no "spine" in that right? Though I don't think McCain or Obama is doing that in the least I think they're vote pandering knowing that normally strong democratic or republican voters don't matter because they will either not vote or continue to vote for "their party" and that it's the swing voters in a couple states which determine the presidency. Which I also think is stupid because there are probably more pissed off right of center people who won't vote than center line people who will be swayed to the right by a mushy half democrat McCain. I honestly think if there was a true conservative on the ticket the republicans would have a better chance than with McCain because so many won't show up to vote and Obama has such momentum the dems will probably sweep up most of the center voters regardless of who he pisses off.
Obama and McCain are who the elites have chosen to have the public vote for (hello media manipulation) and they've already decided Obama will win.
We can just hope that both Obama and McCain both have massive simultaneous heart attacks and we get a "do over"
Post by: Manedwolf on July 16, 2008, 09:35:19 PM
We can just hope that both Obama and McCain both have massive simultaneous heart attacks and we get a "do over"
I do not wish ill will on any politician just because I happen to disagree with them.
That is a reprehensible sentiment.
Post by: FiveBillionAcres on July 16, 2008, 09:49:09 PM
Perhaps they could both just have "changes of heart" and decide to pull out.