Post by: roo_ster on July 09, 2008, 07:17:20 AM
I took 6 years of Spanish instruction*, became reasonably good with it, and also put it to use for a while in college.
I have to say that it is WORTHLESS in my professional capacity. I have let it become rusty because I don't need it. Unless you are traveling to LA countries and selling them on your stuff, Spanish is not necessary in America. Some guys who interface with illegal aliens could find it useful, but LA illegal alien labor is such a tiny portion of the GDP, the lack of such facility would be a similarly tiny loss of opportunity.
Also, BHO is oh-so-worried what multi-lingual Europeans will think of us. !Que horror!**
* If I had to do it over, I would take either latin, German, Japanese, or Mandarin. Latin & German being the top picks.
** Anybody know how to get the upside-down exclamation point to register in the text box? I tried alt-0161 and got bupkis.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 09, 2008, 07:25:49 AM
I can order lunch in Spanish. That's all I care to learn.
If I wanted to learn something for business, it would be Mandarin Chinese. Otherwise, probably German.
Post by: ilbob on July 09, 2008, 07:34:07 AM
a few years out of school without reading any german text left me without the ability to do so anymore.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on July 09, 2008, 07:37:00 AM
I studied for 5 years in high school and college, worked in a vegetable cannery with 95%+ hispanic workforce for high school and college, and found moderate use as a blue collar worker in a low paying job.
Now as a DBA and an office professional, I have zero use for it. I've studied chinese and japanese as well, and found zero use for them. I guess that means I need to travel more.
Tell BHO to go talk to the French: they know how to treat a domestic language in their own country. As much as I dislike them generally, they at least have a loving respect for a unified national language. They may speak German/Italian/English/Spanish/Whatever when abroad or to tourists domestically who cannot speak French, but they are devoted to their own language when at home.
We need to be the same.
ETA: My biggest use for Spanish now is when I go down to the border with the Minutemen. Somehow, I don't think that's why BHO wants us to learn Spanish, though.
Post by: longeyes on July 09, 2008, 07:38:16 AM
The issue is who rules America. First divide, then conquer.
Post by: Dntsycnt on July 09, 2008, 07:45:24 AM
I'd like to learn Spanish. Instances arise about every third day in which it would be useful at my work, and aside from that, it's just interesting.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 09, 2008, 07:46:39 AM
I don't see the problem here. How can more knowledge/abilities be a bad thing?
I'd like to learn Spanish. Instances arise about every third day in which it would be useful at my work, and aside from that, it's just interesting.
I'd like to learn Spanish. Instances arise about every third day in which it would be useful at my work, and aside from that, it's just interesting.
Why don't you just require the employees to speak English?
Post by: Parker Dean on July 09, 2008, 07:50:58 AM
Post by: Boomhauer on July 09, 2008, 07:56:39 AM
I don't see the problem here. How can more knowledge/abilities be a bad thing?
I'd like to learn Spanish. Instances arise about every third day in which it would be useful at my work, and aside from that, it's just interesting.
I'd like to learn Spanish. Instances arise about every third day in which it would be useful at my work, and aside from that, it's just interesting.
I see the problem here. I DON'T WANT TO LEARN IT!. It's very hard for me to learn other languages (I've switched to French in college in hopes it will be easier cause I failed Spanish 101). My grammatical education in school was very lacking, and the ONLY reason I am as literate as I am now is that I read a LOT on my own time.
Let THEM learn English.
The past couple of weeks have made me really, really hate Obama.
He wants to start his own Brownshirts/Gestapo
He wants to force students to volunteer (50 hrs for HS, 100 hrs for College)
He wants to force us to learn to speak Spanish, aparently so that we can obey our new masters when La Raza takes over.
Wants to give more $$$$ to the UN so they can take it, and give some of it to worthless African dictators...
Little Marxist SOB.
Post by: charby on July 09, 2008, 08:02:12 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on July 09, 2008, 08:25:25 AM
Science and History as well. Why would we worry about multi-lingual Europeans? They all speak English.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 09, 2008, 08:36:19 AM
I don't see the problem here. How can more knowledge/abilities be a bad thing?
The main problem I have with it is his embarassment that Americans are not like Europeans. We fought a revolution so that we would not have to be like Europe. And we're not. We're better.
Europeans: More likely to know other languages.
Americans: Less likely to be socialist weenies.
Advantage: America
Post by: Boomhauer on July 09, 2008, 08:41:52 AM
I would much rather see better math education than worry about language abilities. Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic; the basics come first. Science and History as well.
Why would we worry about multi-lingual Europeans? They all speak English.
Science and History as well. Why would we worry about multi-lingual Europeans? They all speak English.
OMG! WHY are you suggesting that the government schools teach actual subjects that are extremely important instead of teaching them multiculturalism and indoctrinating them in the greatness of big government!
Post by: Manedwolf on July 09, 2008, 08:50:24 AM
Because they're sure not learning it...
Post by: El Tejon on July 09, 2008, 09:05:08 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on July 09, 2008, 09:18:50 AM
He should insist that all of our children learn how to do algebra, and learn how to read, write, and speak English properly, and learn enough history to know which century the Civil War took place in.
Post by: roo_ster on July 09, 2008, 09:32:37 AM
He should insist that all of our children learn how to do algebra, and learn how to read, write, and speak English properly, and learn enough history to know which century the Civil War took place in.
Preach it, brother!
Post by: charby on July 09, 2008, 09:59:48 AM
Wenn Sie Deutches sprechen, leiben Frauen Sie.
Yes, I want ketchup with my fries.
Post by: El Tejon on July 09, 2008, 10:17:27 AM
Quote
Yes, I want ketchup with my fries
Ja, ich wunsche Ketschup auf meinen potatos. [I can't remember the word for french fries]
Post by: Laurent du Var on July 09, 2008, 10:35:03 AM
I'm grateful that fistful has won the revolution so he doesn't have to be
like the socialist European's scape goat.
In order to learn a foreign language you'd have to master your own first.
If hispanic people don't feel the need to learn the language of their host country
then there should be questions asked about individual freedom or the need of freedom for those individuals who won't say hello to their fellow human beings in their own language.
Personally I'm grateful to have learnt other languages at a young age because I use it every day at work, in my family and at gunowner boards.
Because of this I'm here and able to understand the cranky Irwin, the slaughtering Swede, the Jewish guy with a German girlfriend whose mother will be fine I hope, St John's who is short but a great weight lifter and a great range of American people I got to like to read from over the years.
Learning a foreign language is like learning to swim, great if you like the sea and useless if you prefer sitting on your couch.
Edit to help our lawyer out again :
French fries in German are pommes frites ! and they are from Belgium really....
Post by: El Tejon on July 09, 2008, 10:37:26 AM
Pommes frites! I should have known that! Thanks, LdV.
Language Police=>
Post by: Laurent du Var on July 09, 2008, 10:38:13 AM
Post by: MicroBalrog on July 09, 2008, 11:34:10 AM
Europe needs to get with the program.
And for the record, I speak four languages.
Post by: longeyes on July 09, 2008, 11:45:45 AM
The underlying impetus by the Left is toward balkanizing the U.S. and de-Anglicizing it. Whatever we are, wherever we come from, we are the inheritors of an Anglo-American culture whose core political and cultural values cannot be separated from that legacy. That doesn't mean we have to war against all "alien" influences; it does mean we need to be clear about what we believe and why.
And for the record I have familiarity with several languages and am fluent in at least two.
Post by: roo_ster on July 09, 2008, 12:30:51 PM
Post by: Scout26 on July 09, 2008, 12:33:36 PM
If you speak German, women will love you.
Ja, ich wunsche Ketschup auf meinen potatos. [I can't remember the word for french fries]
Quote
Yes, I want ketchup with my fries
Ja, ich wunsche Ketschup auf meinen potatos. [I can't remember the word for french fries]
When I was stationed in Germany we asked for Pommes Frites with our wursts.
Post by: Angel Eyes on July 09, 2008, 01:56:55 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/08/AR2008070802781.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Quote
The McCain campaign stocked the audience with posters announcing "Estamos Unidos McCain," while the Obama campaign supplied stickers and posters saying, "Latinos for Obama."
"SÃ, se puede!" Obama, who doesn't speak Spanish, said as he arrived on stage.
"SÃ, se puede!" Obama, who doesn't speak Spanish, said as he arrived on stage.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 09, 2008, 02:21:15 PM
Quote
Estamos Unidos McCain
We are united McCain?
Laurent,
No, I didn't fight no revolution. But "we" did. With French help, of course.
Respectfully,
Josh Bissey aka fistful
Post by: Tallpine on July 09, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
Actually, I had two years of it in HS. Don't remember much now.
Post by: Dntsycnt on July 09, 2008, 04:25:38 PM
I'm not saying it should be required, but people are reacting like it's an evil thing.
Post by: RaspberrySurprise on July 09, 2008, 04:34:06 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 09, 2008, 04:42:21 PM
He DID say that immigrants should learn English, and I agree with that. But I don't see how it's evil and "multiculturalist" to learn the language of our southern neighbors.
I'm not saying it should be required, but people are reacting like it's an evil thing.
I'm not saying it should be required, but people are reacting like it's an evil thing.
Sigh. I tried to answer you right after your previous post. No one said that learning Spanish was a bad thing. If you are truly that confused, then you must not have heard Obama's comments. There is another possibility, but charity and civility restrains me from suggesting it.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 09, 2008, 04:47:12 PM
Post by: Dntsycnt on July 09, 2008, 04:53:05 PM
How is that an answer?
There are many things we don't have to do that are worth doing.
But maybe that's just my stupid talking.
Post by: Boomhauer on July 09, 2008, 05:57:32 PM
He DID say that immigrants should learn English, and I agree with that. But I don't see how it's evil and "multiculturalist" to learn the language of our southern neighbors.
I'm not saying it should be required, but people are reacting like it's an evil thing.
I'm not saying it should be required, but people are reacting like it's an evil thing.
I don't care if you seek out to learn it on your own, your decision. But don't try to force ME to learn it.
Post by: macadore on July 09, 2008, 06:06:40 PM
Post by: Boomhauer on July 09, 2008, 06:27:35 PM
Quote
Why Spanish. Das Kapital was written in German.
Because why go to the trouble of resurrecting the Third Reich with all it's negative baggage when you can integrate with a socially acceptable socialist movement already up and running and gaining momentum (La Raza)?
The end result is going to be the same, but without the resistance that bringing back Nazism would incite. The American people will just sit there fat, dumb, and happy so long as they have a beer and American Idol to watch. Cause President Obama will have it all in hand.
Post by: Regolith on July 09, 2008, 07:00:40 PM
Post by: Scout26 on July 09, 2008, 07:49:41 PM
Quote
Why Spanish. Das Kapital was written in German.
Because why go to the trouble of resurrecting the Third Reich with all it's negative baggage when you can integrate with a socially acceptable socialist movement already up and running and gaining momentum (La Raza)?
The end result is going to be the same, but without the resistance that bringing back Nazism would incite. The American people will just sit there fat, dumb, and happy so long as they have a beer and American Idol to watch. Cause President Obama will have it all in hand.
Das Kapital was written by Karl Marx....as in Marxism aka Communism.
Mein Kampf was Adolf Hitler's book "outlining" National Socialism.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 09, 2008, 07:54:24 PM
So your great and sage answer is that we don't have to be like Europe, and I'm stupid because I don't get it?
How is that an answer?
There are many things we don't have to do that are worth doing.
But maybe that's just my stupid talking.
How is that an answer?
There are many things we don't have to do that are worth doing.
But maybe that's just my stupid talking.
Sigh again. Did you watch the clip? Did you see the part where Obama said "instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English...you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish"? I sincerely hope I don't have to tell you what's wrong with that.
Post by: wmenorr67 on July 09, 2008, 08:46:38 PM
Post by: longeyes on July 09, 2008, 10:32:43 PM
Will anyone ask him that question? I really want to hear his answer, on the record.
It is amazing and disgusting that we have arrived at a point where the prospective head of the Executive Branch of our Government is running on a a position that flouts extant law.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 09, 2008, 11:00:56 PM
We are supposed to accommodate ourselves to the language of illegal invaders the new and loudest proletariat that the socialists are counting on for support?
FTFY
Blade Runner was way too optimistic. LA will not be black market Asian biotech and towering skyscrapers. LA will be a sleepy, squalid Tijuana II mostly on the public dole.
Post by: LadySmith on July 09, 2008, 11:32:25 PM
Post by: anygunanywhere on July 10, 2008, 04:37:31 AM
You would be surprised at what they are saying about you.
Responding to them is one of those priceless moments.
Anygunanywhere
Post by: longeyes on July 10, 2008, 07:23:28 AM
Post by: K Frame on July 10, 2008, 07:31:28 AM
That's the height of hubris, and to be perfectly honest, it shoudn't be tolerated, even in a polyglot society like the United States.
There should be a universal language that everyone should speak. If they want to speak their native language amongst themselves, that's fine, but for official business it should be English.
I speak Spanish and some French, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have someone DEMAND that I speak only Spanish to them because they're too egotistical or too lazy to learn the dominant language of the nation they've chosen as their new home. NO EFFING WAY.
Post by: longeyes on July 10, 2008, 07:58:24 AM
And I think we ignore at our peril that fact that all of our seminal documents are written in English. Language matters; words matter. Law is based on linguistic nuance, and if we want a system of law we need to recognize the importance and power of language in that realm. Our minds are formed by the ways of a specific language.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on July 10, 2008, 07:58:48 AM
And are your two daughters learning Spanish Mr. Obama?
Course not. They are the Elite. Of course they don't have to learn it. Only us proles.
Post by: Waitone on July 10, 2008, 08:07:48 AM
Post by: El Tejon on July 10, 2008, 08:09:46 AM
Post by: cosine on July 10, 2008, 08:35:23 AM
+1
And I think we ignore at our peril that fact that all of our seminal documents are written in English. Language matters; words matter. Law is based on linguistic nuance, and if we want a system of law we need to recognize the importance and power of language in that realm. Our minds are formed by the ways of a specific language.
And I think we ignore at our peril that fact that all of our seminal documents are written in English. Language matters; words matter. Law is based on linguistic nuance, and if we want a system of law we need to recognize the importance and power of language in that realm. Our minds are formed by the ways of a specific language.
Indeed. Excellent post.
Post by: MechAg94 on July 10, 2008, 12:39:10 PM
I wonder if today's kids will resist learning Spanish the same way kids of years past resisted learning metrics.
Most engineering students I went to college with had no issue with metrics. The conversions between different measurements were much easier. I knew a few who would convert all English units to metric, do the problem, then convert back to avoid having to remember the extra conversion stuff.
Post by: MechAg94 on July 10, 2008, 12:41:05 PM
I would much rather see kids master the English language than have a mediocre knowledge of two languages.
Post by: MechAg94 on July 10, 2008, 12:45:01 PM
I think if all Europe spoke one language, they wouldn't be much different than us over here in the language department. They are multilingual because of the proximity of other languages the necessity of doing business.
Post by: longeyes on July 10, 2008, 03:21:09 PM
Post by: RevDisk on July 10, 2008, 04:40:22 PM
I speak German and Albanian in addition to native English. While I agree learning second or third languages is generally a good idea, for many reasons, I question the need to learn Spanish. I learned German because I am predominately of German decent, and I found it fairly interesting. It's been useful in business, as I've had to translate instruction packets from equipment ordered from Germany. (The translation wasn't exact.) I learned Albanian because I did a tour in the Balkans, and very much believe a soldier should always understand the language of the locals for bloody obvious tactical reasons. Plus it was useful to calm down drunken locals with AK's and to yell fire correction directions to the locals whenever they started shelling UN forces.
Spanish? Well, I might see the 'need' if I lived within a couple hundred miles of the Mexican border. But I don't. Business wise, I don't sell anything to Latin or South America. If I need to sell something to folks from Spain, I speak German if the customer isn't great on English. So again, why should I learn Spanish besides being somewhat of a challenge of learning a fourth language?
Post by: longeyes on July 10, 2008, 05:15:24 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 10, 2008, 05:53:37 PM
And his being so pathetically naive and provincial that he gets all embarrassed that we're not like the Euros. Have some pride, man.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 10, 2008, 06:10:47 PM
And his being so pathetically naive and provincial that he gets all embarrassed that we're not like the Euros. Have some pride, man.
He isn't naive. That's what he really believes. Europe is better. We should be like Europe.
That's his "change" he wants to effect.
Post by: Regolith on July 10, 2008, 06:46:49 PM
Most of us have heard individuals speaking spanish while in public, the grocery checkout line for instance.
You would be surprised at what they are saying about you.
Responding to them is one of those priceless moments.
Anygunanywhere
You would be surprised at what they are saying about you.
Responding to them is one of those priceless moments.
Anygunanywhere
Heh. My sister minored in Spanish while in college. During that time, she became fairly fluent. In order to get through school, she worked as a manager at Burger King. Some of the people she managed came from Mexico. (I'm sure you can see where this is going...).
Yeah, basically she caught them talking crap about her in Spanish, thinking she wouldn't understand. From what I'm told, they damn near had a heart attack when she answered back. In their own language.
Post by: roo_ster on July 10, 2008, 07:09:28 PM
I wonder if today's kids will resist learning Spanish the same way kids of years past resisted learning metrics.
Most engineering students I went to college with had no issue with metrics. The conversions between different measurements were much easier. I knew a few who would convert all English units to metric, do the problem, then convert back to avoid having to remember the extra conversion stuff.Guilty.
Post by: zahc on July 11, 2008, 05:17:20 AM
Post by: roo_ster on July 11, 2008, 03:29:41 PM
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07/como-se-dice-ob.html
Como Se Dice? Obama Clarifies Comments Over Foreign Languages
Share
July 11, 2008 1:22 PM
ABC News' Sunlen Miller reports: Sen. Barack Obama reiterated his belief Friday that Americas children to learn a foreign language, firing back against criticism he received from some conservative groups who suggested the Illinois senator wanted to make the United States a bilingual country.
Speaking in Powder Springs, GA on Tuesday Obama told the crowd that its embarrassing when Europeans come to the US and they all speak English. By comparison, Obama said, Americas young people do not have matching language skills.
All we can say is merci beacoup, Obama said. We should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age.
The statements prompted outrage from some conservative groups who argued his remarks were an endorsement of the idea that Americans should be forced to learn Spanish. Americans for Legal Immigration PAC posted Obamas comments on their website with the headline: Voters Reject Obamas Call for Bilingualism.
At a town hall in Dayton, Ohio the presumptive Democratic nominee attempted to explain his statements, blasting the interpretation of his original remarks.
Obama brought it up while speaking about how the Bush administration's "No Child Left Behind" education policy has forced schools to cut programs like foreign languages.
I said something the other day down in Georgia, and the Republicans jumped on this. I said, you know, absolutely immigrants need to learn English, but we also need to learn foreign languages, he said Friday.
Obama told the crowd that this is one of the problems with politics today.
This is an example of some of the problems we get into when somebody attacks you for saying the truth, which is we should want children with more knowledge. We should want our children to have more skills. Theres nothing wrong with that! Its a good thing, he said.
While the Obama campaign says that Obama speaks a little bit of Indonesian, Obama himself admits that he isnt bilingual.
I know because I dont speak a foreign language. Its embarrassing! he said.
The Obama campaign reiterated Friday that Obama would continue to require immigrants to learn English to be eligible for citizenship.
"Senator Obama has always said that learning English is an important step for immigrants to the United States and would make it a requirement for citizenship, but he also believes that learning a foreign language is an enriching experience for young people in this country," said Obama spokesperson Jen Psaki.
Post by: Tallpine on July 11, 2008, 05:21:38 PM
Quote
All we can say is merci beacoup, Obama said. We should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age.
A bheil GÃ idhlig aghaibh
Urrainn mi abair "mòran taing" no "tapadh leibh"
Post by: wmenorr67 on July 12, 2008, 01:30:53 AM
Quote
Speaking in Powder Springs, GA on Tuesday Obama told the crowd that its embarrassing when Europeans come to the US and they all speak English. By comparison, Obama said, Americas young people do not have matching language skills.
Those that travel to foreign countries usually take the time to learn some of the language.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 12, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Quote
Speaking in Powder Springs, GA on Tuesday Obama told the crowd that its embarrassing when Europeans come to the US and they all speak English. By comparison, Obama said, Americas young people do not have matching language skills.
Those that travel to foreign countries usually take the time to learn some of the language.
That, and guess what the international language of things like aviation (by law) and business (by general agreement) is?
Post by: Green Lantern on July 12, 2008, 06:39:37 AM
We have a lot of Hispanic customers/patients that can't understand a dang WORD of English...
I've picked up a bit of 'pharmacy Spanish' as a result (thanks to Doctors that have to write prescriptions in Spanish). The lazy ones however, request that WE do it...
If I'm the one that gets such a Rx, I type it FIRST in English, then in Spanish.
Obama is a clown, but I can't say I'm sorry in the LEAST for this latest "mis-speaking" adventure. A girl at work who is a "lukewarm" Obama supporter (she REALLY wanted Edwards, then Hillary) said after hearing this that she may just write in Donald Duck...
Post by: K Frame on July 12, 2008, 08:04:13 AM
I saw that once, in a Macy's store here in DC.
Two Senegalese sales clerks were commenting on my friend's wife in rather negative terms in French.
He's about 95% fluent in French and he lit into them like you would not believe. The look on their faces was just incredible. I understand just enough French to know what they were saying about Jen, and the jist of what he was telling them.
Things got even more interesting when the manager showed up.
I just sat back and laughed.
Post by: Manedwolf on July 12, 2008, 09:48:35 AM
When I lived in S. Florida, I came out of a store, and two ladies were speaking to each other in Haitian Creole. They switched to English without a break in their conversation to each other along with their nod and smile of greeting as I passed...as if there was an unsaid social rule common to both of them that it was simply polite to do so if others could overhear the conversation, being that they were in America. And every Haitian I ever met there spoke a beautiful King's English, too.
That's one legacy of the colonies in the islands that has always fascinated me. Many people from the former British colonies, regardless of their income class, speak a formal, elegant British English with a vocabulary worthy of an Oxford graduate.
Post by: seeker_two on July 12, 2008, 10:15:48 AM
Spanish (particularly Central-American dialects), unfortunately, is the language for the lower-income classes......
Post by: Manedwolf on July 12, 2008, 10:19:21 AM
If anything, Chinese will be the dominant financial language and good to learn.....
Spanish (particularly Central-American dialects), unfortunately, is the language for the lower-income classes......
Spanish (particularly Central-American dialects), unfortunately, is the language for the lower-income classes......
Exactly. Chinese is good for manufacturing, if you want to deal direct. Spanish might be good if you want to deal with lower income workers a lot, but it isn't much of a business language. In the economic powerhouse of South America, Brazil, the businesspeople speak Portuguese.
Of course, if you learn German, you can yell at HK customer service reps in a more effective manner.
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
Post by: Elza on July 12, 2008, 10:30:38 AM
Where is the middle finger smilie.
Right here.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sauer/angry-smiley-002.gif
Post by: zahc on July 12, 2008, 12:13:38 PM
Quote
Exactly. Chinese is good for manufacturing, if you want to deal direct.
Let's not forget that there is no such thing as 'the' Chinese language. Saying you should learn 'Chinese' is about like saying you should learn 'European'.
Post by: seeker_two on July 12, 2008, 03:44:32 PM
zach: Guess I should have specified Mandarian. At least China was smart enough to specify an official dialect when setting up governmental operations.....
Post by: The Annoyed Man on July 13, 2008, 07:27:59 AM
BHO is mono lingual, not even Indonesian any better than my Japanese (where I lived as a small child). I don't know how he managed to graduate High School without any foreign language. Both my High School and College required years of it. I took Latin, Spanish, German. I never had use for any of them, except for the Latin. Hey, it helps with English, "Romantic" languages", and Medicalese. OK, we had a few monolingual Hispanic patients. Also French, german, Indian, Arabic... Now, Haitian Creole was a problem. It doesn't have a lot of relation to English, French, or New Orleans, and that translater was kind of hard to find. It's amazing how much can be communicated with body language alone.The Chinese are taught English from Kindergarten through college, since it's such a universal language.
"Meci boucoup" isn't Spanish. Spanish came from, duh, Spain.
I don't know anyone who doesn't smoke about "pressing one for English". Makes me want to press 6 for Navaho.
Sounds like this board is more muti-lingual than the facist Martinet..
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 13, 2008, 07:34:12 AM
The definition of politeness, to me.
When I lived in S. Florida, I came out of a store, and two ladies were speaking to each other in Haitian Creole. They switched to English without a break in their conversation to each other along with their nod and smile of greeting as I passed...as if there was an unsaid social rule common to both of them that it was simply polite to do so if others could overhear the conversation, being that they were in America.
When I lived in S. Florida, I came out of a store, and two ladies were speaking to each other in Haitian Creole. They switched to English without a break in their conversation to each other along with their nod and smile of greeting as I passed...as if there was an unsaid social rule common to both of them that it was simply polite to do so if others could overhear the conversation, being that they were in America.
I've never understood why anyone cares about that. They should have stuck to Creole.
Post by: doczinn on July 13, 2008, 02:24:03 PM
Post by: longeyes on July 13, 2008, 05:35:04 PM
Post by: macadore on July 13, 2008, 07:14:54 PM
Actually, I have to agree with fistful on that one - passersby have a right to understand my conversation? I don't think so.
Its rude to speak a language that others do not understand. Its like whispering in front of others.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 13, 2008, 07:58:43 PM
Post by: doczinn on July 13, 2008, 08:00:01 PM
Quote
Its rude to speak a language that others do not understand.
Says who? Why do passersby have a right to understand what I'm saying?
Post by: Laurent du Var on July 13, 2008, 10:53:24 PM
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
[/quote]
Post by: macadore on July 14, 2008, 03:43:39 AM
Quote
Its rude to speak a language that others do not understand.
Says who? Why do passersby have a right to understand what I'm saying?If three people are standing together and one turns to the other, covers his mouth, and whispers to the other so you can not hear, it is rude. The person whispering is implying that you are not worthy of hearing the conversation. It is rude, disrespectful, and condescending. It shows a distinct lack of class.
Post by: doczinn on July 14, 2008, 04:46:35 AM
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If three people are standing together and one turns to the other, covers his mouth, and whispers to the other so you can not hear, it is rude.
Perhaps, but that's not what I'm disputing.
Post by: longeyes on July 14, 2008, 05:41:20 AM
In an era where Harvard Law graduates can't seem to think clearly we need to get back to basics.
Post by: K Frame on July 14, 2008, 07:40:11 AM
Your point supposes that the three people standing there are together.
If only two are together, and the third is an unrelated party, there is nothing rude about one of the first two whispering to the other.
There is also absolutely nothing inherently rude to two people continuing a conversation in their native language if you are not, and are not intended to be, a part of it.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 14, 2008, 08:42:36 AM
"If three people are standing together and one turns to the other, covers his mouth, and whispers to the other so you can not hear, it is rude."
Your point supposes that the three people standing there are together.
Your point supposes that the three people standing there are together.
Even if they were together, it could be rude, condescending, blah, blah, blah, but not always. The fact that they don't want to share X with you is not necessarily an insult. It just might not be something you need to hear. If it bothers you, macadore, it might indicate a bit of insecurity or paranoia on your part, depending on circumstances.
I'm left out sometimes, when my wife is talking to a female friend. Sometimes they have a little bit of girl talk to take care of. I don't care. I just lean forward, and pretend to listen in, just to annoy them.
Post by: doc2rn on July 14, 2008, 08:51:57 AM
Post by: longeyes on July 14, 2008, 09:20:40 AM
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I'm left out sometimes, when my wife is talking to a female friend. Sometimes they have a little bit of girl talk to take care of. I don't care. I just lean forward, and pretend to listen in, just to annoy them.
You should listen.. because from what I can see girltalk is going to be the official language of the United States, if it isn't already.
Post by: macadore on July 14, 2008, 12:53:17 PM
If it bothers you, macadore, it might indicate a bit of insecurity or paranoia on your part, depending on circumstances.
It does not bother me if people want to parade their lack of class. As for your ad hominum attack, thanks for accentuating my point.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on July 14, 2008, 01:09:45 PM
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It does not bother me if people want to parade their lack of class. As for your ad hominum attack, thanks for accentuating my point
I don't think that's an ad hominem attack. Excessive concern over the unrelated actions of others and the fixation that those actions have bearing on one's self is a classic definition of insecurity or paranoia.
Just because it can be inferred to apply to you in this particular instance doesn't make the argument any less cogent.
Quote from: dictionary.com
Paranoia:
1. Psychiatry. a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.
2. baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
1. Psychiatry. a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.
2. baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 14, 2008, 01:59:33 PM
Post by: RevDisk on July 14, 2008, 03:16:44 PM
Of course, if you learn German, you can yell at HK customer service reps in a more effective manner.
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
Bwahahaha, I'm so answering the phone with that from now on out.
Post by: Scout26 on July 14, 2008, 03:26:51 PM
Post by: The Annoyed Man on July 14, 2008, 03:50:26 PM
Of course, if you learn German, you can yell at HK customer service reps in a more effective manner.
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
Bwahahaha, I'm so answering the phone with that from now on out.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 14, 2008, 05:03:01 PM
whisperwhisperwhisperwhisperwhisper Fistful whisperwhisperwhisperwhisperwhisper Mike Irwin whisperwhisperwhisperwhisperwhisper
That, sir, is a vicious lie!!
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on July 14, 2008, 05:13:48 PM
"Guten Morgen, das ist HK Kundenservice. Sie saugen und wir hassen sie."
Post by: seeker_two on July 14, 2008, 05:24:17 PM
whisperwhisperwhisperwhisperwhisper Fistful whisperwhisperwhisperwhisperwhisper Mike Irwin whisperwhisperwhisperwhisperwhisper
That, sir, is a vicious lie!!
I agree......Irwin would never be that gentle with fistful......
Post by: Glock Glockler on July 14, 2008, 07:26:50 PM
In an interview with the New York Times Obama stated that the Muslim call to prayer was the "prettiest sound on earth" and then recited it in perfect arabic.
Post by: K Frame on July 14, 2008, 08:40:37 PM
You're living under the woefully mistaken impression that I give a damn about what you think of me.
To put it succinctly...
Never have, never will.
Post by: longeyes on July 14, 2008, 08:45:32 PM
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: March 6, 2007
WASHINGTON
The conventional wisdom about Barack Obama is that hes smart and charismatic but so inexperienced that we should feel jittery about him in the Oval Office.
But that view is myopic. In some respects, Mr. Obama is far more experienced than other presidential candidates.
His experience as an antipoverty organizer in Chicago, for example, gives him a deep grasp of a crucial 21st-century challenge poverty in America that almost all politicians lack. He says that grass-roots experience helps explain why he favors not only government spending programs, like early childhood education, but also cultural initiatives, like efforts to promote responsible fatherhood.
In foreign policy as well, Mr. Obama would bring to the White House an important experience that most other candidates lack: he has actually lived abroad. He spent four years as a child in Indonesia and attended schools in the Indonesian language, which he still speaks.
I was a little Jakarta street kid, he said in a wide-ranging interview in his office (excerpts are on my blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground). He once got in trouble for making faces during Koran study classes in his elementary school, but a president is less likely to stereotype Muslims as fanatics and more likely to be aware of their nationalism if he once studied the Koran with them.
Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (itll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.
Moreover, Mr. Obamas own grandfather in Kenya was a Muslim. Mr. Obama never met his grandfather and says he isnt sure if his grandfathers two wives were simultaneous or consecutive, or even if he was Sunni or *expletive deleted*it. (O.K., maybe Mr. Obama should just give up on Alabama.)
Our biggest mistake since World War II has been a lack of sensitivity to other peoples nationalism, from Vietnam to Iraq. Perhaps as a result of his background, Mr. Obama has been unusually sensitive to such issues and to the need to project respect rather than arrogance. He has consistently shown great instincts.
Mr. Obamas visit to Africa last year hit just the right diplomatic notes. In Kenya, he warmly greeted the president but denounced corruption and went out of his way to visit a bold newspaper that government agents had ransacked. In South Africa, he respectfully but firmly criticized the governments unscientific bungling of the AIDS epidemic. In Chad, he visited Darfur refugees.
My experience growing up in Indonesia or having family in small villages in Africa I think it makes me much more mindful of the importance of issues like personal security or freedom from corruption, he said, adding: Ive witnessed it in much more direct ways than I think the average American has witnessed it.
As a senator, Mr. Obama has not only seized the issue of nuclear proliferation, but also the question of small arms. For a majority of the worlds inhabitants, those AK-47s and R.P.G.s are the weapons of mass destruction.
So how would an Obama administration differ from the Bill Clinton presidency in foreign policy? One way, he said, would be a much greater emphasis on promoting education, health care and development in Africa and other poor regions not just for humanitarian reasons, but also with an eye to national security.
If we cant take what, relative to our military hardware and defense budgets, are a pittance, and put some resources into these areas, we will not be secure, he noted, adding: The Marshall Plan was part of a security strategy; it wasnt simply charity.
Mr. Obama thumps the White House on trade and foreign investments, like the Dubai ports deal but he isnt demagogic in the way that too many Democrats have been. And three years ago, Mr. Obama was quoted in The Chicago Tribune as making hawkish comments about a military strike on Iran, but in the interview he pirouetted and noted that one of the lessons of Iraq is that being trigger-happy ... is a recipe for disaster. Thats a welcome sign of growth.
So, granted, Mr. Obama lacks the extensive experience at top levels of diplomacy of, say, Dick Cheney or ... oh, never mind.
What sets Mr. Obama apart is the way his training has been at the grass-roots rather than in the treetops. And that may be the richest kind of background of all, yielding not just experience, but also wisdom.
You are invited to comment on this column at Mr. Kristofs blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on July 14, 2008, 08:50:42 PM
I want my President to be a great citizen of the United States of America.
Post by: longeyes on July 15, 2008, 04:09:08 AM
He is the New Teacher and we are his brats, there to be educated.
Post by: Tallpine on July 15, 2008, 07:46:45 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on July 15, 2008, 09:00:31 AM
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As a senator, Mr. Obama has not only seized the issue of nuclear proliferation, but also the question of small arms. For a majority of the worlds inhabitants, those AK-47s and R.P.G.s are the weapons of mass destruction.
They're also the means of self defense for a majority of the world's inhabitants. It's hard to pull off a genocide when your stormtroopers are being shot and having their armor blow up. The AK-47 will keep working even if not maintained at all beyond a flush-out with water and a bit of motor oil, if even that...and is so simple to operate that even the elderly and children can use it. Sure, some people misuse it. A lot of other people also use to defend their families from death squads that would otherwise steamroll their entire village.
But, right, just like the UN. Only certified warlords can buy weapons. Must crack down on the smugglers who get guns to the little people. Protracted wars are embarrassing, genocides are quick, silent, and can be swept under the rug.
Post by: Boomhauer on July 15, 2008, 10:23:27 AM
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So let me get this straight - Obama is going to cut taxes and also provide welfare to the entire African continent
He would love to. After all, leftists love to subsidize dictators and warlords and fund genocides, and the UN gets lots of practice in performing them, too.