Post by: brimic on August 14, 2008, 07:00:08 PM
The Motorcycle bug has bitten me hard.
I've been riding my sisters training bike this summer, a Yamaha XJ 650, and just love it. I have a fairly decent set of gear- full face helmet, gloves, boots, leather jacket, though I might get some textile pants soon as well. I now want to buy my own bike. Over the last few days I answered a classified ad for a 1990 Harley XL 883. I'm going to look at it tomorrow. From the phone conversation I had, the owner doesn't sound like he really wants to sell it, but has fallen on hard times, the price is right, and from what I could gather from the owner, everything is in good condition except the front tire which might need replacing.
Besides checking the fork for leaks, making sure the frame is straight and doesn't have signs of being crashed, the chain and sprockets look good (1990 was the last year the Sportster had a chain drive), is there anything else to look for? The photos in the ad looked really good, though I couldn't tell if there was oil leakage/stain on part of the motor or if it was just a shadow (though it looks more like a shadow).
Also, how long with reasonable care do the 883 engines last before they need a rebuild? I'mnot too concerned, as the bike I'm looking at has 1/2 the miles of my sister's 1982 Yammy, and that bugger runs good.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on August 14, 2008, 10:21:39 PM
1)Harleys generally require a bit more in the way of maintenance than your Japs. Unless you're comfortable wrenching on your scoot, you might want to rethink getting the Hog
2)Most of the people I know, who have (and regularly ride) a Sportster, say "get something else".
That said: if the price is what you're willing to pay, she runs good, and fits you: go for it!
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 03:31:34 AM
Mechanical work doesn't scare me too much, I do all of the maintenance and repairs on the vehicles we have, if I get in over my head my neighbor is a very good mechanic (and a good friend) and offers advice/help for the price of a few beers.
The Sporty is a bike my wife finds acceptable* and is almost on board with me buying- I think she wants me to buy it but is trying to leverage something else out of me for it. lol. I like some oft he Mertric Cruisers/Standard bikes, but the Sportster works for me too.
* She works for Harley which is almost cult-like with brand conciousness. Everyone there wears harley clothes, eats, drinks, and poops Harleys, and get special parking arrangements right up front if they ride a Harley to work.
Post by: LAK on August 15, 2008, 03:42:51 AM
Post by: JonnyB on August 15, 2008, 03:48:32 AM
It's pretty likely that Mrs. B and I will be replacing it next year with SoftTail model (don't yet know which one) to get a better ride. The Sportie is OK but isn't a two-person traveling machine. Since I use it primarily for commuting (13 miles of rural driving) it works fine. When she and I go somewhere, we wish it had: bags, better seating (even though I upgraded to a better seat), a softer ride and a bit more weight.
The new 883 Sportster starts at $6600-6900, so you should be doing better by a bunch on an 18-year-old ride.
For me, the Harley is just a motorcycle. I have to be careful saying that at the dealership, or they'll excommunicate me from the Church Of The Divine Ride. Some of the hard-core riders are as bad as cult members!
jb
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 03:55:32 AM
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Just offhand though; check stearing head, swingarm and wheel bearings for excessive play.
Ok, thanks. Next question- Is there a good way to perform these checks or is it pretty much a grab-and-pull ordeal?
Post by: bedlamite on August 15, 2008, 04:04:03 AM
http://www.cycletrader.com/find/search/
IMO, Harley Davidson sells an image that just happens to include a motorcycle. You can expect an elitist attitude from a lot Harley owners if you buy any of that "Jap crap" that is actually a much better machine.
A loose head will rattle when you ride over a good sized bump, a swingarm may squeak or rattle over the same bump. Wheel bearings are a grab and pull deal.
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 04:05:08 AM
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It's pretty likely that Mrs. B and I will be replacing it next year with SoftTail model (don't yet know which one) to get a better ride. The Sportie is OK but isn't a two-person traveling machine. Since I use it primarily for commuting (13 miles of rural driving) it works fine. When she and I go somewhere, we wish it had: bags, better seating (even though I upgraded to a better seat), a softer ride and a bit more weight.
A lot of my plans for it is for commuting- I have a 30 mile commute. Not really planning on riding two up on it. We often talk about getting a bigger bike, but right now we really wouldn't have the time to go on rides with it anywhere with kids in the home. If she can learn to ride on it, it would be a bigger plus, though I'm trying to push her towards something much smaller and a lot less top heavy like a Honda rebel. We're planning on taking the H-D rider's course together next spring since the company picks up the tab for her fees.
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 04:09:39 AM
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Your old Yamaha is going to be faster than the Harley.
That wouldn't suprise me at all. I really liked the Maxim, its easy to ride and mild mannered, but takes off like a rocket at higher RPMs- and it looks good too.
Post by: bedlamite on August 15, 2008, 04:27:01 AM
For me, the Harley is just a motorcycle. I have to be careful saying that at the dealership, or they'll excommunicate me from the Church Of The Divine Ride. Some of the hard-core riders are as bad as cult members!
I've found the opposite. The truly hard core riders don't care what logo is on your tank, It's the posers and RUB's who insist that the only real bike is a Harley.
ETA gratuitous bike porn:
Post by: tokugawa on August 15, 2008, 06:11:00 AM
On buying a used bike- try for a clean garage kept machine less than ten years old. No matter how well taken care of, an older machine starts to have trouble with rubber parts and gaskets drying out, rusty fuel tanks, carb deposits, etc. Expect to have to change the tires even if the tread is good, they dry out and get sidewall cracks- at this point they have the co-efficient of friction of a billiard ball.
Although a lot of bikes will flat stomp a Harley into the dirt powerwise , it may only be apparent at high RPM and high speed. Harleys do just fine off the line and up to eighty or so. Tons of torque . Sportsters are known for being uncomfortable paint shakers.
If your commute is on back roads, with less than perfect pavement, do not discount a dualsport bike- a DR650 Suzuki will FLY down a crappy road and return 55 mpg doing it. (you will need a aftermarket seat though!)
And Bedlamite's post is spot on-- real hard core oldtimers do not give a hoot what you ride- it's the folk who think their "bad ass" biker image depends on a motorcycle who have the "attitude".
Post by: JonnyB on August 15, 2008, 06:33:55 AM
And Bedlamite's post is spot on-- real hard core oldtimers do not give a hoot what you ride- it's the folk who think their "bad ass" biker image depends on a motorcycle who have the "attitude".
Oops. I agree with both of these writers. The serious riders don't care about what you ride. The bikers are the asshats you need to ignore.
jb
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 07:00:09 AM
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I'm assuming you don't have the Seca turbo version
Q? Do all of the XJ SECAs have turbo? There's one listed near me in CL which I might look into if this one doesn't pan out...
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/mcy/797112454.html
FWIW, here's the one I'm looking at:
1990 883cc Harley Davidson Custom Sportster, blue with chrome accents, leather saddle bags, new battery, 13,000 miles, windshield, front leather tool bag
The owner said the tail lamp was being replaced last night.
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 07:09:14 AM
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On buying a used bike- try for a clean garage kept machine less than ten years old. No matter how well taken care of, an older machine starts to have trouble with rubber parts and gaskets drying out, rusty fuel tanks, carb deposits, etc. Expect to have to change the tires even if the tread is good, they dry out and get sidewall cracks- at this point they have the co-efficient of friction of a billiard ball.
Yep, I'm kind of sensitive to most of those issues as well. I pretty much expect that tires are going to need replacing. I stored my 14 year old pickup truck over the winter and when I started it up in spring, it leaked oil all over the place- had to replace valve cover gaskets and an oil pan. I don't mind spending my evenings working on stuff like that, it beats the heck out of sitting in front of the tube with the wife watching American Idol
The one that I'm really worried about would be the fork seals- I know nothing about what lives inside those things.
Post by: MillCreek on August 15, 2008, 07:33:47 AM
Post by: bedlamite on August 15, 2008, 07:46:08 AM
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I'm assuming you don't have the Seca turbo version
Q? Do all of the XJ SECAs have turbo? There's one listed near me in CL which I might look into if this one doesn't pan out...
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/mcy/797112454.html
No, only the 650's had the turbo. None of the 750's had a turbo. My cousin had the turbo years ago. It did have more power than the 750 motor, but not as much as it should have and there was a lot of lag. The turbo is a poor choice for a commuter.
I didn't realize you were in WI. There is a Motorcycle show and swap meet this weekend just west of Green Bay. I haven't decided if I'm going or not.
http://www.vinjapeuromcclub.org/IVMSshow.htm
Post by: charby on August 15, 2008, 08:01:54 AM
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 08:16:20 AM
Post by: charby on August 15, 2008, 08:25:04 AM
$3100
That is less then they are going for around here.
How much grief would your wife get if you buy a non Harley?
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 08:36:36 AM
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That is less then they are going for around here.
Around here, you can't throw a rock without hitting a Harley. There are a lot of Sportsters for sale that are usually 1999 or newer and the magic starting price seems to be around $4500.
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How much grief would your wife get if you buy a non Harley?
I doubt that she'd get any grief, but that her impression of reality
Post by: charby on August 15, 2008, 08:48:36 AM
Realistically I should be looking at a bigger bike because Mrs Charby has it stuck in her mind that she is going to be riding around with me on the back on the bike.
Since wife does work for HD (or does she work for a dealer) you may be better off getting a HD. If my spouse worked for Ford, We'd be driving Fords. I wouldn't want any loyalty to the company to come into question regarding my spouse and he work habits. I was a union employee years ago for US West (now Qwest) and I drove a Suzuki Samurai and I used to get crap every morning about how can I own something that wasn't union built, made in America, etc.
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 09:00:17 AM
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Since wife does work for HD
Yep, right now she works at the plant that makes the engines/transmissions for the Touring bikes, but she's pretty much worked at every other manufacturing or office site around Milwaukee....Quote
Realistically I should be looking at a bigger bike because Mrs Charby has it stuck in her mind that she is going to be riding around with me on the back on the bike.
My wife thinks that she'll eventually have a Road King or Ultra Classic and that I'll have to find my own ride. I have to get her on a bike first- baby steps. She gets a pretty steep discount on new touring bikes as well.
Post by: charby on August 15, 2008, 09:04:26 AM
She gets a pretty steep discount on new touring bikes as well.
I wish my wife worked at HD, I'd love to have a Street Glide or a Road King, but I just don't want to pay $20k for it.
Post by: coppertales on August 15, 2008, 09:34:04 AM
Post by: brimic on August 15, 2008, 09:44:33 AM
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Check the inside of the tank for rust.
If it were rusty, are most Sporty tanks interchangeable? My wife brought home a tank from what I think is a 1998 sportster,iirc that she had won as a door prize or bought as a surplus item as an office decoration at one time or another.... She brings all kinds of weird stuff home, sort of reminds me of a Johnny Cash song.
Post by: charby on August 15, 2008, 09:46:50 AM
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Check the inside of the tank for rust.
If it were rusty, are most Sporty tanks interchangeable? My wife brought home a tank from what I think is a 1998 sportster,iirc that she had won as a door prize or bought as a surplus item as an office decoration at one time or another....
Should be, they have used that peanut tank for years. Just have to make sure that the petcock will match up to the new tank.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on August 15, 2008, 10:47:19 AM
I had a Hell's Angel tell me to start on a Hondamatic (to learn to ride), and had an Outlaw yell at me for "dissing my ride" (I'm currently on a POS '76 Goldwing). Honestly, it's mostly the posers that cause the problems: I tend to ask them how many miles they've logged this season (I've usually logged more miles in a season than they have in their career)...
Post by: agricola on August 15, 2008, 11:04:08 AM
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 15, 2008, 01:24:12 PM
To check the steering head bearing, grab the front forks and push/pull them back and forth to feel for looseness. Also take a jack, put it under the crankcase, and jack up the front of the bike so the tire is just off the ground. Hold the bike level and turn the front wheel left to right. If you feel something like a slight notch when you reach the straight forward position of the wheel, the bearing is starting to go.
Rust in the tank isn't going to rust through, but it could get into your fuel system. If you take a flashlight and look around and see rust, you'll want to take the tank off. Put some marbles in it and roll them around to loosen any rust. Don't use metal bearings or anything else that can spark unless you've had the tank purged.
It sounds like you already know to check the chain and sprocket. Also take a flashlight and look between the primary case and the transmission. You'll be looking for signs of leakage from the tranny. It's a pain in the butt to replace the tranny seal. Leakage could also come from a worn out main sprocket.
Run your hand or a piece of paper towelling under the primary to look for signs of fluid. If the primary cover gasket is leaking, that's not a big deal to replace. If the gaskets between the engine or the tranny and the primary are leaking, that's a lot more work.
When the bike gets up to temperature, check the seams around the pieces of the rocker boxes, particularly the rear. They get dried up with heat and age and will leak. Replacing them isn't major surgery, but it's become a regular routine for my bike.
Also check the base of the cylinders where they meet the crankcase. If there's oil there, it means pulling the heads, cylinders and all the other fun stuff to replace the cylinder base gaskets. There was a problem with crankcases from the late 1980's through the early 1990's on the 1340 motors involving the use of two different types of metal for the crankcase halves. I don't know if that affected the 883 motors, but it contributes to leaky base gaskets.
There's lots more to check, but this should give you a start.
Post by: brimic on August 16, 2008, 02:50:34 AM
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When the bike gets up to temperature, check the seams around the pieces of the rocker boxes, particularly the rear. They get dried up with heat and age and will leak. Replacing them isn't major surgery, but it's become a regular routine for my bike
That turned out to be the on only thing mechanically wrong with the bike- the front rocker box leakes a little on the second gasket down. The owner was upfront about it and told me that the local dealership wanted $40 dollars or so for a gasket kit. My buddy who came with me, is into drag racing and hotrodding cars, told me that he could probably cut a gasket for me very cheaply. I rode it home and put a piece of cardboard under her and collected about 6-7 drips. The front tire looks to have dry rot and needs replacement and by the looks of it, the rear will need replacement by the end of the year too. Everything else looks great- no scratches on the paint, the metal has a little grime but looks mostly unblemished.
The bike rides like a dream. It feels very solid and handles very easily. It just feels right. The virbration isn't as bad as I thought it would be- didn't bother me a bit at highway speeds but made the mirrors almost useless
I'm in the doghouse a bit. When I go home, she peaked in the garage and said OMG what a POS, you can sleep with it tonight. Luckily I had a house key on my keychain as I unlocked the door, quietly slinked in, took as shower, and got a bottle of lotion and offered to rub her feet. Of course I got the normal response- don't touch me. A few minutes later she said "if you buy any more guns or crap on EBAY over the next three years, the bike is going up for sale. So I wrote up a lengthy contract which included other niceties as well, we both signed it, I gave her a foot rub and everything was right with the world again. Totally worth it
Post by: wmenorr67 on August 16, 2008, 03:49:19 AM
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"if you buy any more guns or crap on EBAY over the next three years
Good thing Ebay won't sell guns.
Post by: brimic on August 16, 2008, 09:29:02 AM
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 16, 2008, 12:49:53 PM
You can try some independent shops, but I've found that their level of expertise with even the most simple repairs is hit-and-miss. (Mostly miss).
If the second gasket on the front rocker box is leaking, it's likely that the second rocker box piece is slightly warped. If you don't want to buy a new one, try to have your friend cut a gasket from cork. The paper/silicone gaskets don't seal well enough with a warped center box piece.
Post by: bedlamite on August 16, 2008, 01:31:27 PM
Install them yourself
Post by: brimic on August 16, 2008, 01:42:36 PM
Maybe its just time for me to learn to change tires myself....
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$180 is pretty much standard at HD dealerships. My last set of front and rear tires (tires, tubes, balancing) cost me nearly $500.
Ouch. They also mentionaed have the wheel bearing repacked which would cost $45 (I'm assuming per wheel) + $20 for bearings if they need replacing.
I'm going to have to talk to my neighbor tonight. He used to be into bikes and is a mechanic, his wife made him get rid of his bike when he got married. She already warned me that she'd better not here him talking about getting another bike
He was over this morning checking it out when I started it up in the garage to warm it up.
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 16, 2008, 01:53:29 PM
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They also mentionaed have the wheel bearing repacked which would cost $45...
That's nuts. Unless there's a reason for pulling the bearings, you should be able to clean them in place and pack them with grease yourself.
The bottom rocker gasket used to be paper. Then in the 1990's a company (forget the name) came out with thin steel gaskets with a paper coating and silicone on the sealing surfaces. Harley may have bought them out, or is just using those gaskets now as standard.
If you'll be taking the pushrods out, be sure to mark them. Maybe you already know that, but I screwed up once on that. Makes the engine run really smooth.
Post by: brimic on August 16, 2008, 02:17:28 PM
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Buy your tires here
Install them yourself
Install them yourself
Thanks. That looks doable.
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If you'll be taking the pushrods out, be sure to mark them.
I'm not sure. I haven't gone through the details in the service manual yet. But I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on August 16, 2008, 05:43:20 PM
Post by: JimMarch on August 16, 2008, 09:57:49 PM
The people who talk about high maintenance costs on a Harley, esp. the Evolution Sportster motors we both have, don't understand these bikes.
Yes, repair/maintenance costs at a Harley dealer are high - you'll hear the term "stealership". The good news: you don't need them.
The motor is stone-axe simple. It has pushrods and hydraulic valves - you won't ever have to adjust the valves, something that's a MAJOR pain in the rump on most other rides. A few of the newer Jap cruisers now do hydraulic valves too, but not many on the used market.
Doing the valve cover gaskets will be no problem at all. Get some ball-end hex keys in SAE and it's a snap.
Another huge advantage is that your transmission oil is a separate pool of goop than your motor oil, plus it's a dry-sump system. Jap rides generally do tranny and motor oil as the same pool, which long-term causes issues.
The 883 motor has more performance potential when modded than any other Sportster-based motor, mine included, if we're not talking about splitting the cases (read: custom crankcase/rods).
You have fairly small pistons that weigh less than those on a stock Harley 1200 (which is how mine came). I've upgraded to a 1250 with Axtell ceramic-lined barrels and forged race pistons. But because my crank is heavier than yours, I had to run heavier pistons than I could have if I'd started with an 883. You can buy kits to swap barrels and pistons to 1200 or beyond from an 883 starting point, with lighter 1200 pistons than normal (forged to boot instead of stock cast).
The reason I had to swap barrels/pistons (and I did serious heads as well while it was apart) was that when I bought mine used, the moron had installed a higher-flow air intake without re-jetting the carb. And then he didn't run it seriously. He had told me it WAS jetted right...not. So I melted a hole in the front piston doing 80mph. Sigh. Didn't hurt the bottom end any thank God. Once I had the new piston/barrel kits in hand it was about a three day job swapping it all across. The hard part was rigging a hoist so I could shake it upside down with the barrels and pistons off to get the loose piston bits out of the crank. Yeah, the whole bike...Buell motormounts are a freakshow, it was just easier than yanking the motor.
Anyways. My point is, Harleys are like Rugers: they respond well to amateur repairs and even modifications
. With 10.5:1 compression, Mikuni 42 carb, KT Engineering pipe and 2004-spec Buell heads with a stage 2 port, I'm pulling 0-60 in about three seconds . Less than $2.5k with new parts would take your motor there 
and could be done in stages as desired.
Post by: brimic on August 17, 2008, 05:07:37 AM
Post by: brimic on August 17, 2008, 08:43:22 PM
Post by: bedlamite on August 18, 2008, 04:20:19 AM
The motor is stone-axe simple. It has pushrods and hydraulic valves - you won't ever have to adjust the valves, something that's a MAJOR pain in the rump on most other rides. A few of the newer Jap cruisers now do hydraulic valves too, but not many on the used market.
Checking and adjusting shim/bucket valves is a 1-2 hour job every 15K miles, and is very simple to do (With the notable exception of Honda's VTEC system, and even that has a reputation of going 50K+ miles without needing shims). I'll gladly do a valve check every year or two to get rid of the power and rpm limiting hydraulic valves. There is nothing "MAJOR pain in the rump" about it on my Suzuki, I've checked them twice so far and haven't had to touch a new shim. My old Virago had solid rockers, and checking them was a 20 minute job, easy enough to do at first oil change of the season.
Another huge advantage is that your transmission oil is a separate pool of goop than your motor oil, plus it's a dry-sump system. Jap rides generally do tranny and motor oil as the same pool, which long-term causes issues.
I'd be interested to find out what issues you think that causes. I know several people that have turned the 6th digit on their odometer with zero problems, and all they did was change the oil every 3K miles.
Post by: charby on August 18, 2008, 06:30:39 AM
When I go home, she peaked in the garage and said OMG what a POS, you can sleep with it tonight.
I would have responded, "Looks no rides for you, ever!"