Post by: K Frame on September 08, 2008, 06:32:58 AM
http://www.marshallnewsmessenger.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/08/090608_web_guns.html
This is buried in the middle of the article, and it really makes one pause...
"Patrick Franklin, a spokesman for the Gregg County Democratic Party, said Obama is not going to take away a person's right to bear arms, and calls the claim a typical Republican tactic to scare gun owners.
"Republicans used the same tactic in 1992 when Bill Clinton ran for office," Franklin said. "Barack Obama is not going to take people's gun rights away. That's not his intention."
I seem to recall that Bill Clinton also issued muted platitudes about respecting the Second Amendment in the run up to his 1992 election...
Funny how we got the Brady Law and the "Assault Weapons" ban in his first term, isn't it?
Post by: wmenorr67 on September 08, 2008, 06:34:21 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 08, 2008, 06:38:02 AM
Quote
"We call it the Obama factor. People are very concerned that if a Democrat is elected they will see more restrictions on handguns and assault rifles." Godell said. "I think as a result of that we have seen steady handgun sales, and there's been an increase in the sale of assault rifles like AK-47s, as well."
IS NOT AK-47. IS NOT ASSAULT RIFLE. DOES NOT HAVE SWITCH.
AAARRGG!
Though the Democrat:
Quote
Patrick Franklin, a spokesman for the Gregg County Democratic Party, said Obama is not going to take away a person's right to bear arms, and calls the claim a typical Republican tactic to scare gun owners.
"Republicans used the same tactic in 1992 when Bill Clinton ran for office," Franklin said. "Barack Obama is not going to take people's gun rights away. That's not his intention."
Franklin supports Obama's position on assault-style rifles.
"There's soon going to be a discussion in this country about automatic weapons," Franklin said. "I think people would agree having an AK-47 on the streets is something that needs to be regulated."
"Republicans used the same tactic in 1992 when Bill Clinton ran for office," Franklin said. "Barack Obama is not going to take people's gun rights away. That's not his intention."
Franklin supports Obama's position on assault-style rifles.
"There's soon going to be a discussion in this country about automatic weapons," Franklin said. "I think people would agree having an AK-47 on the streets is something that needs to be regulated."
That was already done in 1934, idiot.
Post by: Boomhauer on September 08, 2008, 06:48:51 AM
And, you bet the specter of Obama has been influencing gun sales. I've bought an AR-15, and I have a WASR on layaway, pending a consignment sale. Especially since he picked Biden as his VP.
My dealer can barely keep WASRs on the shelf. AR sales have also been brisk. He's also taking the opportunity to order some of the more diverse EBRs for his personal collection, such as PSLs, a Sig 556, and a couple of others.
Post by: MicroBalrog on September 08, 2008, 06:52:41 AM
Quote
"I think people would agree having an AK-47 on the streets is something that needs to be regulated."
I wouldn't.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 08, 2008, 06:59:31 AM
So it certainly would not be unwise to put away some FAL receivers, AR lowers and such, whatever it is that you are into, since that is the part that would be no longer available. Stamped AK derivative receivers are cheap.
Mags as well, but that goes without saying. At least ten for every rifle.
Post by: Monkeyleg on September 08, 2008, 01:18:49 PM
Obama's handlers can talk all they want, but there's a lot of people who don't believe them.
Post by: French G. on September 08, 2008, 03:39:21 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 08, 2008, 05:46:17 PM
If a gun bill hits the floor of either house I'll buy everything I may ever need whether or not i can afford it, it's only a credit rating.
The problem is that prices will spike, too.
I don't even like ARs much, but I have several Stag lowers stashed. Also another DSA FAL receiver, and there are four high quality AK derivatives in the safe (two x39, one 5.56, one .308), as I figure those are the most likely to keep working forever no matter if they ban parts, even.
Interesting trivia note, the bans keep missing strange and rare rifles like the Czech VZ-52/57 rifle, which is a wood-stocked 7.62x39 semiauto with a folding-flush blade bayonet. The original 52 is 7.62x45 and finding ammo is nearly impossible, plus it's highly corrosive.
If you can find one that wasn't eaten by corrosive ammo, might not be a bad investment to have an "off ban" rifle like that. It might be the only sort one can sell as a loophole.
As for sales, too? They're EXTREMELY brisk here. Every weekend, Riley's looks like a department store's sale. Crowded with people buying everything.
Post by: French G. on September 08, 2008, 06:58:01 PM
at which point I will weld the mags in my K-31, pry the FN-49 away from pops, get more Garand goodness, and if rich buy a Johnson just because it is a sidefeeder 
!
Post by: Manedwolf on September 08, 2008, 07:02:56 PM
Favorite "off-ban" rifles. Garand, FN-49 which my dad has in the Belgian .30-06 flavor and won't let me near, Browning BLR in .308. The M-1A sneaks by too at least by prior bans except for mag capacity. I'm sure any future ban will reference "bottom feeders" at which point I will weld the mags in my K-31, pry the FN-49 away from pops, get more Garand goodness, and if rich buy a Johnson just because it is a sidefeeder !
at which point I will weld the mags in my K-31, pry the FN-49 away from pops, get more Garand goodness, and if rich buy a Johnson just because it is a sidefeeder ! I just saw an FN-49 for over a thousand in a store. I thought that was a bit crazy. SVT-40's are getting up there, as well.
Post by: Ben on September 08, 2008, 07:22:10 PM
Quote
Well they aren't going to ban the guns they want you to have tolerate you owning.
Fixed it for ya Bill.
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 07:49:01 AM
Ban stick is primed, folks, and you all know I will not hesitate to use it.
Post by: Nick1911 on September 09, 2008, 07:57:37 AM
Going to try this again.
Ban stick is primed, folks, and you all know I will not hesitate to use it.
Ban stick is primed, folks, and you all know I will not hesitate to use it.
On a side note, it's pretty disorienting to click on page 2, and discover that there isn't a page 2 anymore.
Post by: French G. on September 09, 2008, 07:59:21 AM
Looks like someone else was typing while I was...
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 08:03:48 AM
Think of it as a squealing with delight, stomach churning roller coaster ride.
Post by: Regolith on September 09, 2008, 09:37:15 AM
Favorite "off-ban" rifles. Garand, FN-49 which my dad has in the Belgian .30-06 flavor and won't let me near, Browning BLR in .308. The M-1A sneaks by too at least by prior bans except for mag capacity. I'm sure any future ban will reference "bottom feeders" at which point I will weld the mags in my K-31, pry the FN-49 away from pops, get more Garand goodness, and if rich buy a Johnson just because it is a sidefeeder !
at which point I will weld the mags in my K-31, pry the FN-49 away from pops, get more Garand goodness, and if rich buy a Johnson just because it is a sidefeeder ! If the ban is re-instituted, it's unlikely that the M1A and M1 Carbine will squeak by. HR 1022 had them on the list of guns to ban, and I wouldn't be surprised if they recycled it.
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 09:43:48 AM
I think I now have a dozen or more magazines for my AR-15, and I tend to buy one or two more every time I hit the gunshop or make an order.
As far as guns are concerned, I may finally spring for a Beretta XP4 Storm in .45 ACP. I've wanted a DA .45 for a long time, and the Storm has really captured my interest.
The last time I was worried about a gun-hating Democrat taking the White House 4 years ago Mtnbkr and I each ended up with an Evil Black Rifle.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 09:45:59 AM
I think I now have a dozen or more magazines for my AR-15, and I tend to buy one or two more every time I hit the gunshop or make an order.
You could also just pick up bodies and extra springs instead of mags. They can't ban the followers and floorplates, since those are used in nanny-state mags, too, but they can ban "high capacity magazines and/or magazine bodies"
And once AR mags are dinged at the feed lips, that's it, isn't it?
That, or get the Magpul P-mags. They look interesting.
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 10:09:36 AM
Doesn't make much sense as far as I'm concerned, so I just buy magazines and put them away.
I have a half dozen surplus Isralie Orlite magazines that have proven to be very reliable. I use those for range sessions.
Post by: mtnbkr on September 09, 2008, 10:19:48 AM
The last time I was worried about a gun-hating Democrat taking the White House 4 years ago Mtnbkr and I each ended up with an Evil Black Rifle.
That we built ourselves...
FWIW, I'm pretty well stocked on the stuff that's likely to be banned that I'd want to own. My passion is revolvers, I don't even own any semiauto handguns. My only semiauto rifles are the AR and a 10/22.
I've been tempted to pick up another lower receiver, but I don't shoot my AR much as it is. It's far from my favorite gun and I doubt I'll want to own two.
As for AR mags, the parts kits aren't that much less than a complete mag if you shop around. It's just easier to order the mags and be done with it. AIMSurplus has milspec mags for $8.95.
Chris
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 10:26:50 AM
Well, to be honest, you built yours, I assembled mine.
I found a really good deal on an upper (less bolt and gas key) at a gun show and decided to cut to the chase and just get it.
It's funny, too, how different our rifles are.
Mine's a civilian version M16A2. Full stock, long barrel, etc., while Chris went for the bling with a CAR variation...
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 10:28:49 AM
And as for building your own black rifle, that depends what you mean. Snapping together an AR, or building an AK, which involves a jig, metal bending, hammering, and a torch and bucket of water. Building an AK is more like forging a sword.
Then there's building FALs, which I won't even try. I don't have the expertise to get the barrel timing and headspacing right, and you can get a kaboom if you do that wrong.
Only AR I have is likewise an M16A2, but that was just because I found an un-neutered Colt/Martin upper with its bayonet lug and all somewhere for cheap.
Post by: mtnbkr on September 09, 2008, 10:35:24 AM
Mine's a civilian version M16A2. Full stock, long barrel, etc., while Chris went for the bling with a CAR variation...
What bling? Other than the FFT forend, it's as plain as can be. No optics, no lights, etc. I went for something as light as possible. If I'm going to shoot a light cartridge, I want a light (to carry) gun.
Chris
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 10:37:12 AM
Mine's a civilian version M16A2. Full stock, long barrel, etc., while Chris went for the bling with a CAR variation...
What bling? Other than the FFT forend, it's as plain as can be. No optics, no lights, etc. I went for something as light as possible. If I'm going to shoot a light cartridge, I want a light (to carry) gun.
Chris
The arfcom people would call you a heretic. It's not "proper" to some unless the weight of the accessories is more than the weight of the rifle.
I sometimes wonder if some of those people feel naked if they don't carry their ACOG with them and look through it every few minutes.
Post by: Balog on September 09, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 10:38:56 AM
That hoi paloi six position collapsing stock, you effete snob!
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 10:41:44 AM
I'd love to get an FAL, but simply to due cost I'm planning on a couple Saigas in x39 and as many mags and cases of non-corrosive as I can get.
You might want to at least get a parts kit, because what's left is going fast and going up in price. There's a few L1A1s from Australia and some Imbels, but that's about it. Once they're gone, likely no more will be coming in. Already, the barrels are destroyed on new ones.
That law was in force when I got my STG-58 kit. You want to see heartbreaking, see a brand-new, pristine Steyr barrel cut into pieces that was included with it.
Post by: Balog on September 09, 2008, 10:47:00 AM
I'd love to get an FAL, but simply to due cost I'm planning on a couple Saigas in x39 and as many mags and cases of non-corrosive as I can get.
You might want to at least get a parts kit, because what's left is going fast and going up in price. There's a few L1A1s from Australia and some Imbels, but that's about it. Once they're gone, likely no more will be coming in. Already, the barrels are destroyed on new ones.
That law was in force when I got my STG-58 kit. You want to see heartbreaking, see a brand-new, pristine Steyr barrel cut into pieces that was included with it.
It's strictly a budget matter at this point. Getting as much ammo and mags as I feel is prudent will be a stretch; also spending a couple hundred on a parts kit to a rifle that would add another caliber and mag requirement to the stable just isn't practical at the moment. And since the cheap x51 is running out feeding it is getting less practical too......
Post by: mtnbkr on September 09, 2008, 10:57:36 AM
"What's bling?"
That hoi paloi six position collapsing stock, you effete snob!
That hoi paloi six position collapsing stock, you effete snob!
That's prudent planning for the day when a rather petite girl decides she wants to shoot it.
Chris
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 11:07:21 AM
I'd love to get an FAL, but simply to due cost I'm planning on a couple Saigas in x39 and as many mags and cases of non-corrosive as I can get.
You might want to at least get a parts kit, because what's left is going fast and going up in price. There's a few L1A1s from Australia and some Imbels, but that's about it. Once they're gone, likely no more will be coming in. Already, the barrels are destroyed on new ones.
That law was in force when I got my STG-58 kit. You want to see heartbreaking, see a brand-new, pristine Steyr barrel cut into pieces that was included with it.
It's strictly a budget matter at this point. Getting as much ammo and mags as I feel is prudent will be a stretch; also spending a couple hundred on a parts kit to a rifle that would add another caliber and mag requirement to the stable just isn't practical at the moment. And since the cheap x51 is running out feeding it is getting less practical too......
Well, that definitely makes sense, yes. Better to have some things that you have something to feed.
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 11:11:21 AM
But you had it to the range and shot it a couple of weeks ago...
Post by: mtnbkr on September 09, 2008, 11:13:23 AM
"That's prudent planning for the day when a rather petite girl decides she wants to shoot it."
But you had it to the range and shot it a couple of weeks ago...
But you had it to the range and shot it a couple of weeks ago...
Huh? No I didn't. Haven't shot it in months.
Chris
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 11:14:13 AM
Post by: mtnbkr on September 09, 2008, 11:15:17 AM
Chris
Post by: K Frame on September 09, 2008, 11:16:56 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on September 09, 2008, 11:31:03 AM
One of those new CZ rifles would be great also if the mags weren't so much.
Post by: Nick1911 on September 09, 2008, 11:33:43 AM
That said, if Obama gets elected, I'm buying some hardware.
Post by: freedom lover on September 09, 2008, 11:37:24 AM
Post by: Boomhauer on September 09, 2008, 12:32:13 PM
I can't really afford it, but I'm selling my LMT AR that I bought a couple of months ago, to a buddy that needs a rifle bad (he doesn't have a single rifle, and got burned badly by a DPMS AR-15). so, I'm going to take a slight loss and sell him a quality rifle. The FAL is $1200. I've also got a Marlin Camp 9 on consignment for some more cash for the FAL.
I have found the rifle of my dreams.
Avenger29
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 09, 2008, 12:59:00 PM
I might try one of DSA's lighter, shorter carbines some time. Next time I hae a spare 2 grand and nothing better to spend it on.
Post by: Boomhauer on September 09, 2008, 01:07:12 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 09, 2008, 01:12:20 PM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 09, 2008, 01:26:02 PM
For some reason, the weight doesn't bother me. I don't notice the difference between your standard AR vs the FAL. And yes, my AR is plain jane.
What kind of FAL did you buy? Was it the STG-58, or was it one of DSA's other models?
Post by: Boomhauer on September 09, 2008, 01:30:32 PM
No need to pay more, IMHO. Looks good. I like it. Still at the store, waiting on me to sell my AR. My dealer would give me $800 for my AR, or I can sell my AR to my buddy, who badly needs it.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 02:03:08 PM
STG-58. Got it for $1150 from my dealer.
No need to pay more, IMHO. Looks good. I like it. Still at the store, waiting on me to sell my AR. My dealer would give me $800 for my AR, or I can sell my AR to my buddy, who badly needs it.
No need to pay more, IMHO. Looks good. I like it. Still at the store, waiting on me to sell my AR. My dealer would give me $800 for my AR, or I can sell my AR to my buddy, who badly needs it.
If you're not familiar with the operating system, you just want to get a good FAL manual first. The gas setting is important for reliable operation with different types of ammo.
Join FALfiles for lots of helpful people who will answer questions on it. You'll be astonished at how mild the recoil is with that rifle. Smoothest .308 there is. Also one of the nicest-looking!
And likewise, it's just so well-balanced that I just don't notice the weight. On the other hand, I picked up a SIG 556 and found it nose-heavy and hard to handle. It's not the weight, it's the balance. And a good FAL is wonderfully balanced.
Post by: Boomhauer on September 09, 2008, 02:11:18 PM
My dealer is also a FAL owner, and I will get him to show me how to adjust the system, too.
I'm finally feeling....completely satisfied about my choices of fighting rifles.
Post by: Leatherneck on September 09, 2008, 02:23:51 PM
TC
Post by: Nick1911 on September 09, 2008, 02:28:49 PM
You all seem to be assuming that, in an Obama presidency, the rifles you own will be grandfathered. What if they were not?
TC
TC
Then most get turned in, some get reported stolen, and the rest get confiscated. And life goes on.
Post by: BrokenPaw on September 09, 2008, 03:19:46 PM
You all seem to be assuming that, in an Obama presidency, the rifles you own will be grandfathered. What if they were not?
What rifles I own?
Post by: French G. on September 09, 2008, 03:32:04 PM
Quote
You all seem to be assuming that, in an Obama presidency, the rifles you own will be grandfathered. What if they were not?
What rifles? New avant garde sport, rifle fishing for carp. Durn thing swam under the boat and with my perfect follow through I ran half a mag on full auto into the hull. Had all my guns with me, lost everything, sank like a rock.
Seriously I would hope for massive non-compliance. None of our centerfire rifles are safe in a perfect gun grabber's British wet dream but I think that such a ban is immediately unlikely. Politicians lose their seats and anyone charged with enforcing "turn 'em all in" has some serious reservations about their new job being known to the public. I think the first ban if one came would be similar to '94, then there would be a registration push such as California did, then a turn them in or NFA type papering scheme. If you don't have anything prior to the registration or turn in phase you are SOL. If you do you can make decisions about how compliant you want to be. I think Heller helps. By math if you figure there are 80 million gun owners in the country if even 800,000 somewhat resist and 80K really resist it will make any outright ban pretty dicey.
On the ARs I don't like bling either. 20" A2 configuration with ACOG in the carry handle and some spray paint is it for me.
Post by: Scout26 on September 09, 2008, 04:21:53 PM
What rifles I own?
You lose yours in a tragic boating accident also ??
Post by: The Annoyed Man on September 09, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
I don't own a boat.
(EDIT: I really hope it doesn't come to that.)
Post by: MechAg94 on September 09, 2008, 05:01:23 PM
I don't like a lot of bling on the AR, but I do like the flat top. My 20" Armalite is a flattop. I have a carry handle attachment, but I never use it. A red dot with a buis is preferred.
If it gets really bad, I should soon receive a Fulton Armory scout mount for my Garand.
Post by: French G. on September 09, 2008, 06:07:22 PM
Quote
Uhhhhh, an oddball firearm that doesn't have plentiful ammo available is useless. If you think you're gonna stock everything you might need, you might want to re-think your entire 'strategy'
Thought about it pretty hard actually. 4 K-31s, 1200 rounds of ammo, more new reloadable brass, takes .308 projectiles, have press. If I loan a rifle out I can limit the ammo supply handed out and be pretty sure that if allegiances change the loanee will have a club once the two stripper clips are gone. If staying put 1200 rounds and a reloader will take you far. If traveling, 60 rounds better solve your problems or they may be unsolvable. With a hand press and any supply of any other .30 caliber ammunition I can make it go forever. Pull down and recycle. Cheap, accurate and plentiful. The ammo cost is about as cheap as quality .223 is nowadays. Not a primary battery gun but will survive a lot of bans since it is not a self loader.
Post by: French G. on September 09, 2008, 07:14:30 PM
Post by: wmenorr67 on September 09, 2008, 07:45:28 PM
As for me, I already have a mini-14, two 10/22's and my Ruger .45. Have a Para .45 on order that I will pick up when I get home from this two year vacation I have been on. After that I am looking at an AR variant in 6.8 or 7.62.
Any ban that goes into place just maybe the beginning of our next civil war.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 08:12:50 PM
Quote
Interesting trivia note, the bans keep missing strange and rare rifles like the Czech VZ-52/57 rifle, which is a wood-stocked 7.62x39 semiauto with a folding-flush blade bayonet. The original 52 is 7.62x45 and finding ammo is nearly impossible, plus it's highly corrosive.
If you can find one that wasn't eaten by corrosive ammo, might not be a bad investment to have an "off ban" rifle like that. It might be the only sort one can sell as a loophole.
If you can find one that wasn't eaten by corrosive ammo, might not be a bad investment to have an "off ban" rifle like that. It might be the only sort one can sell as a loophole.
Uhhhhh, an oddball firearm that doesn't have plentiful ammo available is useless. If you think you're gonna stock everything you might need, you might want to re-think your entire 'strategy'
Read more carefully. As I said, the ORIGINAL 52 is an oddball. However, the transitional 52/57 uses 7.62x39 like any AK derivative. They can still be found, and are never on bans because they're relatively unknown.
Quote
Uhhhhh, an oddball firearm that doesn't have plentiful ammo available is useless. If you think you're gonna stock everything you might need, you might want to re-think your entire 'strategy'
Thought about it pretty hard actually. 4 K-31s, 1200 rounds of ammo, more new reloadable brass, takes .308 projectiles, have press. If I loan a rifle out I can limit the ammo supply handed out and be pretty sure that if allegiances change the loanee will have a club once the two stripper clips are gone. If staying put 1200 rounds and a reloader will take you far. If traveling, 60 rounds better solve your problems or they may be unsolvable. With a hand press and any supply of any other .30 caliber ammunition I can make it go forever. Pull down and recycle. Cheap, accurate and plentiful. The ammo cost is about as cheap as quality .223 is nowadays. Not a primary battery gun but will survive a lot of bans since it is not a self loader.
I am just glad I bought several black lunchboxes of GP-11 when it was cheap, before people realized HEY IT'S MATCH GRADE!!! The stuff is out of control, now. Prvi is about the same as .308 in cost, though.
My K-31 has a Nikon scope on it now, using the St. Marie clamp mount that doesn't hurt the rifle at all. Perfect bolt-action, I think. Though I suppose the Obamaniacs would consider that a "military sniper rifle" or something. And, of course, high powered.
Also, I somehow doubt that hundreds of thousands of veterans, having fought with an M-4 or M-16 for several years, will be okay with being told "Sorry, we know you know the rifle like your own hand and fought for the US with it...you can't have an AR to defend your family with. It's too dangerous."
Post by: French G. on September 09, 2008, 08:41:11 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 09, 2008, 08:47:10 PM
I think $230 for 480 rounds of high quality .30 caliber ammunition is a screaming deal in today's market. I need to stop buying components and buy more GP-11 before it goes away.
When I bought the lunchboxes, it was $79 each. I wish I had bought more. I could have made a decorative wall or something.
Post by: French G. on September 09, 2008, 09:28:04 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on September 10, 2008, 03:54:07 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 10, 2008, 04:01:32 AM
Black soft plasticized card or something, waterproof, with a carry handle. Open that, and there's eight fitted bricks of 60 inside, and a strip to pull the first one out so you don't need to dig it out. Each brick unwraps into six neat boxes of ten, all in the same clean white with black, grey and white labels with helvetica font. And every round is sealed at the bullet and base, with a mirrorlike nickel-coated bullet.
Still doesn't look like something from 1978. Looks kinda like one of those BUY GOLD AND SILVER ads, doesn't it?
Post by: MechAg94 on September 10, 2008, 03:54:52 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 10, 2008, 05:38:11 PM
Guns are never plain jane. They're plain Jayne.
Not all; some are Vera.
Post by: erictank on September 10, 2008, 05:42:40 PM
Guns are never plain jane. They're plain Jayne.
Not all; some are Vera.
Only if they're lucky.
Actually, make that: Only if YOU'RE lucky.
Post by: Silver Bullet on September 10, 2008, 08:05:39 PM
Quote
I'm not worried about gun control legislation, anyway. It's been proven a loser for Democrats.
Doesn't matter; the Dems are still trying. That's the biggest reason I vote Republican, even though my sentiments are more libertarian.