Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Did I hear correctly what that official said the ATF now labels multiple purchasers as?
I hope I didn't hear that right. That, and the inherent suspicion caused by the fact that they "found food and water" in the man's home.
Is that bad, now?
But really, did the mayor of Jersey City just say what I thought I heard him say?
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Which is why I hate Yahoo News, or threads with links to non-mainstream video feeds.
How about a text summary with credits, instead. You can cut and paste. Honestly, the technology's there, and if properly attributed, all is good.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to really dislike posts with "Look at this!" and nothing more than a link.
We've seen them, it's usually a link to www.youtube.something followed by "discuss".
Umm, no. Why do we want to discuss it if you're too lazy to do so yourself?
So I've gotten into the habit of just plain killing them.
What's the overused Generation-Y term I'm looking for?
Oh, yeah - Epic Fail.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
I wanted to see if other people heard what he said the same as I heard it, and didn't want to relate what I heard, first.
If the link didn't work, letting me know that would inform me to find another that does work for all people. It worked for me on two machines, so I assumed it would.
Post by: Dntsycnt on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
That is crazy.
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
JERSEY CITY, N.J. - (WABC) -- Police have seized dozens of weapons from a home in Jersey City.
It is awesome firepower. Weapons that could fire rounds to pierce bullet proof vests and do considerable damage.
Jersey City police discovered the weapons on Friday after responding to a call of a man threatening another man with a handgun.
According to investigators, the victim was repairing his Ford Windstar in the driveway of 89 Dwight Street. When he went to the rear of 87 Dwight Street to retrieve a part for his van, the suspect, 55-year-old Edwin Wise, came out of 87 Dwight Street, approached him and said, "get off of my property." Mr. Wise then removed what appeared to be a black handgun from the small of his back and placed the gun to the victim's head and threatened him, police said. The victim then ran for safety and called for help.
Police recovered 28 firearms from Wise's home - 20 handguns, 3 shotguns, 3 rifles and 2 assault rifles - including the .380 semi-automatic handgun that was used against the victim.
Police said the weapons were strategically placed in the house near windows, fully loaded and ready for battle.
Wise has been called a survivalist because the house was stocked with food, water and weapons. Police say Wise hasn't been allowed to LEGALLY buy any guns since 1975.
Authorities say the guns were purchased in North and South Carolina where Wise simply altered his name and social security number to buy high powered assault weapons and ten thousand rounds of ammunition.
"This is a classic example of someone who was rejected by the State of New Jersey to own and possess firearms, but who used alternative routes to purchase more than two dozen deadly weapons in a gun-liberal 2 southern state," said Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy.
Investigators believe if the guns had gotten into the hands of criminals, the carnage would have been incredible because they are weapons for war.
It is awesome firepower. Weapons that could fire rounds to pierce bullet proof vests and do considerable damage.
Jersey City police discovered the weapons on Friday after responding to a call of a man threatening another man with a handgun.
According to investigators, the victim was repairing his Ford Windstar in the driveway of 89 Dwight Street. When he went to the rear of 87 Dwight Street to retrieve a part for his van, the suspect, 55-year-old Edwin Wise, came out of 87 Dwight Street, approached him and said, "get off of my property." Mr. Wise then removed what appeared to be a black handgun from the small of his back and placed the gun to the victim's head and threatened him, police said. The victim then ran for safety and called for help.
Police recovered 28 firearms from Wise's home - 20 handguns, 3 shotguns, 3 rifles and 2 assault rifles - including the .380 semi-automatic handgun that was used against the victim.
Police said the weapons were strategically placed in the house near windows, fully loaded and ready for battle.
Wise has been called a survivalist because the house was stocked with food, water and weapons. Police say Wise hasn't been allowed to LEGALLY buy any guns since 1975.
Authorities say the guns were purchased in North and South Carolina where Wise simply altered his name and social security number to buy high powered assault weapons and ten thousand rounds of ammunition.
"This is a classic example of someone who was rejected by the State of New Jersey to own and possess firearms, but who used alternative routes to purchase more than two dozen deadly weapons in a gun-liberal 2 southern state," said Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy.
Investigators believe if the guns had gotten into the hands of criminals, the carnage would have been incredible because they are weapons for war.
Another report:
Quote
Even had bathroom gun
Wednesday, September 10, 2008
By MICHAELANGELO CONTE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
Jersey City officials yesterday displayed 28 deadly and illegal firearms seized at a city man's home last week - and used the bust to underscore Mayor Jerramiah Healy's push for laws to stem the tide of illegal guns coming into the city.
"This rifle is designed to do nothing other than to hunt man," said Police Chief Tom Comey as he picked up an assault rifle from a table covered with the seized firearms.
On Friday, police arrested former Jersey City Auxiliary Police Officer Edwin D. Wise, 55, of Dwight Street, at his home and charged him with aggravated assault and scores of weapons offenses, officials said. Police found at least one gun in every room of his home, including a pistol in the bathroom medicine cabinet, said Sgt. Anthony Musante.
In all, police found 20 handguns, two assault rifles, three shotguns and three rifles, including a handgun that fires rifle rounds capable of penetrating body armor used by police, Comey said.
Every gun was purchased illegally in North Carolina or South Carolina by Wise using fake names and phony Social Security numbers. As many as 10,000 rounds of ammunition were found.
Healy said New Jersey and New York have tough gun laws, but relaxed laws in some Southern states provide a source of illegal guns that find their way to Jersey City streets.
"This is why we have created legislation on the local level to prevent straw purchasers from distributing caches of handguns bought out of state on the streets of Jersey City," Healy said.
Comey said so far this year 348 illegal guns have been seized in Jersey City, a 29 percent increase over the same period last year. The chief said he wanted to make it clear that he and the mayor are not anti-gun, but are against irresponsible gun owners and dealers.
In 2006, Healy proposed and the City Council passed a "one-handgun-a-month" ordinance that would restrict individuals from buying more than 12 handguns a year. The ordinance was overturned by a judge and is currently on appeal. State legislators are poised to adopt a law based on the ordinance, officials said.
The City Council also passed an ordinance that requires gun owners to report a lost or stolen firearm within 48 hours. The state recently passed the same law, and tightened the reporting requirement to 36 hours.
Wednesday, September 10, 2008
By MICHAELANGELO CONTE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
Jersey City officials yesterday displayed 28 deadly and illegal firearms seized at a city man's home last week - and used the bust to underscore Mayor Jerramiah Healy's push for laws to stem the tide of illegal guns coming into the city.
"This rifle is designed to do nothing other than to hunt man," said Police Chief Tom Comey as he picked up an assault rifle from a table covered with the seized firearms.
On Friday, police arrested former Jersey City Auxiliary Police Officer Edwin D. Wise, 55, of Dwight Street, at his home and charged him with aggravated assault and scores of weapons offenses, officials said. Police found at least one gun in every room of his home, including a pistol in the bathroom medicine cabinet, said Sgt. Anthony Musante.
In all, police found 20 handguns, two assault rifles, three shotguns and three rifles, including a handgun that fires rifle rounds capable of penetrating body armor used by police, Comey said.
Every gun was purchased illegally in North Carolina or South Carolina by Wise using fake names and phony Social Security numbers. As many as 10,000 rounds of ammunition were found.
Healy said New Jersey and New York have tough gun laws, but relaxed laws in some Southern states provide a source of illegal guns that find their way to Jersey City streets.
"This is why we have created legislation on the local level to prevent straw purchasers from distributing caches of handguns bought out of state on the streets of Jersey City," Healy said.
Comey said so far this year 348 illegal guns have been seized in Jersey City, a 29 percent increase over the same period last year. The chief said he wanted to make it clear that he and the mayor are not anti-gun, but are against irresponsible gun owners and dealers.
In 2006, Healy proposed and the City Council passed a "one-handgun-a-month" ordinance that would restrict individuals from buying more than 12 handguns a year. The ordinance was overturned by a judge and is currently on appeal. State legislators are poised to adopt a law based on the ordinance, officials said.
The City Council also passed an ordinance that requires gun owners to report a lost or stolen firearm within 48 hours. The state recently passed the same law, and tightened the reporting requirement to 36 hours.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
It's the mayor of Jersey City, saying quite clearly,
"The ATF has designated multiple purchasers as inherently suspicious."
I would like confirmation of that from the ATF.
Also, the "weapons of war" with "armor-piercing bullets" were mostly polymer pistols, a few Berettas, a bull-barrel .22, and one PTR-91 (or CETME, couldn't tell) with a collapsing stock.
I don't doubt that the guy was breaking the law, he most certainly was. It's just the statement about the ATF, and the angle of what was "extreme" about it all that startled me.
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
When I bought 4 each Norinco 1911A1s in 1994, the dealer had to call them in as "multiple purchases", so it's not a new concept, honestly.
The paperwork sent by the selling FFL to the National Tracing center is called a Multiple Sale Form (ATF Form 33104) and has to be completed for the sale of 2 or more hand guns at one time or within 5 Consecutive Business days. Not just 24 hours. One form can hold up to 10 guns.
IMHO, it's Pretty Black & White. It may put one on the ATF radar, it may not. Some FFL holders have received phone calls regarding the circumstances of the sale, while the majority have not. The policy's been in place for at least 15 years that I know of, though. I attributed it to ATF and Clinton Administration efforts to eliminate Kitchen Table FFL holders.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Creepy indeed.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
I did not know that.
I had considered having several purchases shipped to a local kitchen table FFL, leaving them there till they all arrived, then stopping by and doing the transfers at the same time to save time.
But it sounds like it'd be wiser to buy one at a time. And five days apart.
I would not want to be flagged for anything if I found a hot deal on an old but not C&R rifle and a pistol I wanted at a show or something. Bleh.
Post by: MicroBalrog on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Post by: HankB on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
. . . the .380 semi-automatic handgun that was used against the victim.
Firstly, the .380 wasn't used against anyone, no shots fired, nobody was perforated. Secondly, the so-called "victim" sounds like a trespasser. Quote
Police say Wise hasn't been allowed to LEGALLY buy any guns since 1975.
Wise is 55 now . . . what did he do 33 years ago, at about age 22, which banned him from purchasing a gun for life? Presumably some felony . . . wish we knew what he'd done.Quote
Investigators believe if the guns had gotten into the hands of criminals, the carnage would have been incredible because they are weapons for war.
Probably just clumsy sentence structure, but since Wise was peacefully arrested, I guess they didn't consider him a criminal . . . until now.Not going to defend Wise - just not enough info here - but NJ gun laws are, in a word, odious.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
"This is a classic example of someone who was rejected by the State of New Jersey to own and possess firearms, but who used alternative routes to purchase more than two dozen deadly weapons in a gun-liberal 2 southern state," said Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy.
That's the part that shocks me.
Post by: freakazoid on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
Authorities say the guns were purchased in North and South Carolina where Wise simply altered his name and social security number to buy high powered assault weapons and ten thousand rounds of ammunition.
So when he filled out the paper work at the store he just changed his name and SSN? Every time I bought a firearm they called it in. Wouldn't they realize that the SSN is fake?
Post by: Fly320s on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Furthermore, proper ID is required. The guy must have had a decent fake ID. Or he just bought the guns from individuals using the dreaded gunshow loophole.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
SSN is optional on the 4470, but it does help ID an individual with a common name, such as John Smith. I don't use my SSN on the form and I've never had a problem.
I have to. I get a hold if I don't, an instant proceed if I do. Apparently someone with the same name is naughty.
Post by: never_retreat on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Do you all think I should put on my tin foil hat now or latter?
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
That means I get a free gun every month, right?
Post by: Antibubba on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
"This rifle is designed to do nothing other than to hunt man," said Police Chief Tom Comey as he picked up an assault rifle from a table covered with the seized firearms.
Does anyone know when the season opens? I've still got to get my tags.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
"This rifle is designed to do nothing other than to hunt man," said Police Chief Tom Comey as he picked up an assault rifle from a table covered with the seized firearms.
So I can assume your men don't have any?
Or if they do, then you admit that man-hunting is sometimes necessary to preserve the peace?
Post by: seeker_two on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
I liked the part where the NJ police chief quoted BATFE "policy", stating that BATFE knows more about "these things" (i.e. firearms) than we do....gotta be pretty dumb to know less than BATFE....
Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Video link worked for me....but then, Yahoo likes me...
I liked the part where the NJ police chief quoted BATFE "policy", stating that BATFE knows more about "these things" (i.e. firearms) than we do....gotta be pretty dumb to know less than BATFE....
I liked the part where the NJ police chief quoted BATFE "policy", stating that BATFE knows more about "these things" (i.e. firearms) than we do....gotta be pretty dumb to know less than BATFE....
Yes. This would be the same agency whose goon had never heard of Sergeant York, and was adamant that a Maxim that he had personally captured, found in a library attic, was not historically significant, and had to be destroyed before it hurt someone. That it was "dangerous".
The library also later found a photo of it being carried in a wagon with a little kid during a parade in WWI. It has full documentation that it was a trophy from York's battle in Argonne, from a German machine-gun nest. Thankfully, the local LEOs declared it "evidence" and locked it up before BATFE could destroy it.
Post by: MicroBalrog on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Video link worked for me....but then, Yahoo likes me...
I liked the part where the NJ police chief quoted BATFE "policy", stating that BATFE knows more about "these things" (i.e. firearms) than we do....gotta be pretty dumb to know less than BATFE....
I liked the part where the NJ police chief quoted BATFE "policy", stating that BATFE knows more about "these things" (i.e. firearms) than we do....gotta be pretty dumb to know less than BATFE....
Yes. This would be the same agency whose goon had never heard of Sergeant York, and was adamant that a Maxim that he had personally captured, found in a library attic, was not historically significant, and had to be destroyed before it hurt someone. That it was "dangerous".
Please tell me this story has a happy ending.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
I'm just glad the local cops (town in MA) thought fast and pre-empted the BATFE goons from destroying it.
http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2007/04/23/news/news01.txt
Post by: MicroBalrog on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
As far as I know, it's still in the town's police evidence lockup. They're trying to get it to a museum, unless the NRA already has, I don't know.
I'm just glad the local cops (town in MA) thought fast and pre-empted the BATFE goons from destroying it.
http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2007/04/23/news/news01.txt
I'm just glad the local cops (town in MA) thought fast and pre-empted the BATFE goons from destroying it.
http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2007/04/23/news/news01.txt
Sounds like a happy ending to me.
Post by: roo_ster on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
As far as I know, it's still in the town's police evidence lockup. They're trying to get it to a museum, unless the NRA already has, I don't know.
I'm just glad the local cops (town in MA) thought fast and pre-empted the BATFE goons from destroying it.
http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2007/04/23/news/news01.txt
I'm just glad the local cops (town in MA) thought fast and pre-empted the BATFE goons from destroying it.
http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2007/04/23/news/news01.txt
Give that cop a pat on the back, a donut, and a raise for bring a quick thinker.
Post by: TF_FH on March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Quote
former Jersey City Auxiliary Police Officer Edwin D. Wise
Heres my question. If he hasn't been allowed to own a gun for 33 years, was he an auxiliary police officer when he was 22? Or was that sometime after? If its after, how was he a police officer? Or is there some sort of special "You're a cop so do whatever you want" exception?