Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: ilbob on October 16, 2008, 02:55:33 PM
-
Think what Obama's minions can do for you too.
http://freep.com/article/20081014/BUSINESS04/810140340
Metro home sales up, but prices plunge
Foreclosures fuel trend
BY GRETA GUEST • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • October 14, 2008
Driven down by sales of foreclosed homes, median sale prices fell 34% in metro Detroit in September compared with a year ago, dipping below $10,000 in the city of Detroit.
The median price on a house or condo sold in Detroit last month plummeted 57%, to $9,250, from $21,250 a year ago, according to figures released Monday by Realcomp, a multiple listing service based in Farmington Hills.
Foreclosures represented two-thirds of sales in Detroit in September, and they boosted sales by 81% as buyers laid claim to 1,019 homes.
For the wider metro area, the median sale price was down 34%, from $129,000 a year ago to $85,000 last month.
"There's tons of properties out there that investors are snapping up and that skews the numbers," said Joy Santiago, a Southfield-based real estate broker. "You can't say in the city of Detroit that the values are down, because many areas are strong, like Indian Village and Palmer Woods. They are a little bit more stable."
Sales are picking up, she said.
"People have to start realizing there are awesome deals out there, and it is just the time to purchase," Santiago said. "September for me, in the past 10 years, has been slow, but it was my best September ever."
Dan Elsea, president of brokerage services for Real Estate One in Southfield, said the prices are evidence of heavy investor activity in Detroit.
"We are seeing that low end of the market sell quicker. If you have a $75,000 house in the city of Detroit, there are not a lot of buyers for it," Elsea said. "But if you have an $8,500 house, it sells very quickly."
He said that if investor activity is factored out, the true price depreciation in metro Detroit, excluding the city, is at a rate of 1% a month since last September.
Realcomp reported that 5,818 sales of houses and condos in the metro area were concluded during September, up 57% from 3,703 sales in the same month a year ago. The figures consist of closed sales reported by Realtors who subscribe to the service.
More than 37% of the September sales in the metro area were foreclosures, according to Karen Kage, Realcomp president.
But have we hit bottom yet?
"It is near impossible for me to say we are near done," Kage said.
Wayne County sales were up 73%, to 2,278, from 1,320 in September 2007; Oakland County sales rose 51%, from 941 to 1,422; Macomb County sales were up 58%, from 478 to 754, and Livingston County sales were up 45%, from 138 to 200.
And pending sales in September were up 75%, to 7,832 from 4,472 in September 2007. Pending sales are those with signed purchase agreements that have not closed.
With the credit crunch and falling prices, more pending deals are falling apart at the closing table. In September, 1,265 properties went back on the market that were either pending or withdrawn from the market. That compares with 732 properties put back on the market in September 2007, Kage said.
"It's not the best news ever," Kage said of the falling sales prices. "We have said all along that until we weed out some of the inventory, we will not see prices rise."
Realcomp also reported that housing inventory in metro Detroit dropped 16%, to 63,453 homes and condominiums on the market, as compared with 75,932 listings in September 2007. That's a 10.9-month supply at the current sales pace, far above a normal market of a three- to six-month supply.
-
I'm not exactly sure what this has to do with Obama.
MI tied its fortune to the auto industry and lost big. It will be a long time for things to improve there.
-
There was a recent report on how bad it is there now.
Abandoned houses don't just get pipes stolen. People steal the fixtures, the sinks, even the WINDOW FRAMES.
We have our own Mogadishu, thanks to liberal policies.
-
I'm not exactly sure what this has to do with Obama.
Because Detroit is a Democratic stronghold.
-
Detroit's public school book depository.
Yes, those are are the public schools' books. No, there was no disaster.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi138.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq273%2Fpeilo2006%2Fdetroit_bdepoit.jpg&hash=c8fdbdaee2282f67a12313b0deb806dba77f286f)
They just abandoned it.
-
Detroit's public school book depository.
Yes, those are are the public schools' books. No, there was no disaster.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi138.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq273%2Fpeilo2006%2Fdetroit_bdepoit.jpg&hash=c8fdbdaee2282f67a12313b0deb806dba77f286f)
They just abandoned it.
...please elaborate on this notion. I can scarcely believe anybody would abandon a bunch of books in this fashion.
-
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.tmcode.com%2Frote%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fbookrot.png&hash=23777dd793c4259a0b98321054204e0f9ae603dc)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Ftdj%2Fpic%2F001g23st&hash=c05b118ca762ad655eafca9fdcc1f695b9a5226b)
They did.
Pallet after pallet of mid-1980s Houghton-Mifflin textbooks, still unwrapped in their original packaging, seem more telling of our failures than any vacant edifice. The floor is littered with flash cards, workbooks, art paper, pencils, scissors, maps, deflated footballs and frozen tennis balls, reel-to-reel tapes. Almost anything you can think of used in the education of a child during the 1980s is there, much of it charred or rotted beyond recognition. Mushrooms thrive in the damp ashes of workbooks. Ailanthus altissima, the "ghetto palm" grows in a soil made by thousands of books that have burned, and in the pulp of rotted English Textbooks. Everything of any real value has been looted. All that's left is an overwhelming sense of knowledge unlearned and untapped potential.
Detroit is a ruin. Nothing more. I have heard from vets that they'd rather do a patrol in the nastiest parts of Iraq than walk in parts of Detroit.
-
My father in the 1970s called Detroit "America's window to the future".
I'm very glad he was not transferred there. =D
-
So, people reverted to the notion of buying their own textbooks?
Or at least, do people raid the wreckage for free books for their children? I assume some of the books are salvageable, or at least were at some point.
-
1. Kids went without books, and,
2. Books were ordered that were unneeded to derive kickbacks to public school administrators from book companies.
-
So, people reverted to the notion of buying their own textbooks?
Or at least, do people raid the wreckage for free books for their children? I assume some of the books are salvageable, or at least were at some point.
No. The public school system doesn't even have enough books for their kids. They're not even allowed to take them home with them to do homework.
Meanwhile, this Democrat, now going to jail, perhaps:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.debbieschlussel.com%2Farchives%2Fkwamekilpatrickpimpdaddy.jpg&hash=8be17ff115913f220c8157fa13247bf64d0eb68e)
was having parties at the mayoral mansion, complete with strippers, and was sharing city funds with his thug friends.
-
2. Books were ordered that were unneeded to derive kickbacks to public school administrators from book companies.
In America? No. That can't be.
I demand links to a respectable media source of this story. I refuse, refuse, refuse to believe this. This is some form of political allegation by some interest party. It can't be true.
-
As a bibliophile, those images are horrifying.
I get a thrill from ordering classic math books.
That is vile. They could have given them away for free, at the very least.
-
Some more of Detroit. Their idea of a good use for a grand old theater. First, as it was in 1927.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.detnews.com%2Fdn%2Fhistory%2Fmichigan%2Fimages%2F8.jpg&hash=d4a3912e83862f825366be863d267386cc59d70a)(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.detnews.com%2Fdn%2Fhistory%2Fmichigan%2Fimages%2F17.jpg&hash=129c99481a7d6f79eee1517d6fd0059f69e0f0ed)
Smash a hole in a wall:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cogcollective.co.uk%2Furbanresearch%2Fimages%2Fdetroitparklarge.jpg&hash=fba794c6d213087cbcc9df705acea8802c295fcd)
and park cars in the crumbling corpse. Yes, those are still the rotted curtains hanging. They didn't even take them down.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fatdetroit.net%2Fphoto%2F338-MichiganTheater.jpg&hash=652b46737853d97d1f2272cf11198fe390df3d5d)
-
Robocop wasn't a movie; it was a documentary.
-
Wait, wait, wait.
You now tell me that an American official received bribes from book publishers to order hundreds of thousands of unneeded books, that these books were then abandoned en masse with the building they were stored in (because, according to this story, in America even middle-class children do not buy their own schoolbooks), even as the local public school system suffered a shortage of books?
I'm sorry, but that is seriously not very believable. There's just so many ways in which this doesn't make sense.
-
Welcome to America MicroBalrog.
That's how it goes down in larger, more corrupt locales...
Oh, and no, schoolchildren, at least those in public schools, don't buy their books. They might buy paperback copies of novels used in classwork (Tom Sawyer for example), but the regular textbooks are provided. I didn't buy any schoolbooks till I was in college.
Chris
-
I've never heard of any child in public school (or well, their parents, but you get the idea) having to buy their own books. Whether it be text books or novels for class. Aside for course from notebooks and the like.
-
In America? No. That can't be.
I demand links to a respectable media source of this story. I refuse, refuse, refuse to believe this. This is some form of political allegation by some interest party. It can't be true.
not quite as bad but dc is very similar and dc spends more per kid than fairfax
-
Most private schools purchase the kid's schoolbooks, too, IME.
-
Oh, and no, schoolchildren, at least those in public schools, don't buy their books. They might buy paperback copies of novels used in classwork (Tom Sawyer for example), but the regular textbooks are provided. I didn't buy any schoolbooks till I was in college.
In Israel, children in public schools buy their own books. The private school I went to was different, of course.
-
I doubt most American parents would know where to find school books for their kids. (Well, maybe these days, with internet sites like Amazon.) It's just expected that the public school will provide them, because they always do. Except some schools in Detroit or other American ghettos, apparently. And in neighborhoods like that, you're lucky if the parent even knows or cares whether their children have any school books.
-
I doubt most American parents would know where to find school books for their kids. (Well, maybe these days, with internet sites like Amazon.) It's just expected that the public school will provide them, because they always do. Except some schools in Detroit or other American ghettos, apparently. And in neighborhoods like that, you're lucky if the parent even knows or cares whether their children have any school books.
If the school hasn't been burned as well.
-
Wait, wait, wait.
You now tell me that an American official received bribes from book publishers to order hundreds of thousands of unneeded books, that these books were then abandoned en masse with the building they were stored in (because, according to this story, in America even middle-class children do not buy their own schoolbooks), even as the local public school system suffered a shortage of books?
I'm sorry, but that is seriously not very believable. There's just so many ways in which this doesn't make sense.
Your trouble believing widely known facts demonstrates the danger of basing all of one's world view on theoretical concepts and selective reporting. This naivety is also why so many of the people on here tend to point out your youth and inexperience as limiting factors in the validity of your opinions.
-
I have also never heard of any K-12 student buying textbooks. And the idea of that kind of corruption and bribery is totally believable in Detroit.
-
This naivety is also why so many of the people on here tend to point out your youth and inexperience as limiting factors in the validity of your opinions.
Age and experience are only two ways to acquire knowledge about political reality. Getting an education and reading the reports of old, smart, experienced dudes is one such method. Sure, I've not actually lived in the 1940's, but I know about the differences between the Zionist factions that founded Israel (for example), or about the changes in party platforms that occured in the recent past, because I actually read the platforms, not the media renditions of them. I believe that makes me a better voter (for example) than my downstairs neighbor - she maybe very experienced and twice my age, but she is not exactly a clueful user.
But that should be a separate thread.
P.S. You do of course realize I did not really refuse to accept the truth of Manedwolf's post? I admit I thought it was exaggerated in some way, but I was part-humorous in my reply.
-
Wait, wait, wait.
You now tell me that an American official received bribes from book publishers to order hundreds of thousands of unneeded books,
Or hammers or chairs or snow tires or radios or any countless other consumable product needed to operate the gluttonous business that municipal, state and federal governments have become...
that these books were then abandoned en masse with the building they were stored in
Looks that way by the photos. Occasionally, excess durable items like chairs or snow tires or radios are auctioned....
(because, according to this story, in America even middle-class children do not buy their own schoolbooks),
This is true, although some free thinkers will supplement their child's education by buying books. We have (conservatively) over 1000 children's books in our house, mostly used softcover readers and non-fiction (dinosaurs, animals, geography), for my daughters, 4 and 6 years...
even as the local public school system suffered a shortage of books?
The schools are funded (in this state) by a per-student stipend, paid by taxes. There are constant pleas to the parents for pencil sharpeners, tape, construction paper etc while tenured teachers are making in excess of $65,000 per year in schools that cost $1800 per square meter ...
I'm sorry, but that is seriously not very believable.
Please reconsider in light of the testimony you are reading here...
There's just so many ways in which this doesn't make sense.
That's exactly how I feel about big government, It makes no sense in so many ways.
That is why the mantra of small government rings true to many of us.
Thank you, sincerely, for asking such an important question(s).
Steve
-
A friend of mine went to Detroit a few years ago. He said it was in tough shape then.
This is a great site that shows the "Ruins of Detroit". I'm old enough to know that Detroit was not always like it is today.
http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm
-
A colleague of mine was a substitute teacher in Detroit public schools before heading for law school. He taught at a few schools for extended periods of time. Many of his classes simply had no books. They had a half dozen or so worksheets that they were supposed to do over and over again. Forget computers; in some schools there was no chalk, and no chalk board anyway.
Yet my high school English teacher left her post at the private religious school to work for Detroit. Hard jobs to get without the right connections. She teaches in a pretty decent school last I heard. There is plenty of good in Detroit. The bad areas are really bad.
My colleague, btw, is hoping to buy a house there, for himself and his wife and baby. There is a future to be had in Detroit. There was a good mayor for a few years. Maybe Kilpatrick was a wake up call.
-
Maybe Kilpatrick was a wake up call.
I wish I could believe that, but he was re-elected even after the people knew about many of his misdeeds.
-
The school district my kids attend in Indianapolis charges book rental.
-
The public school in my town have a building that is packed with functional old computers, desks, books inter alia. The public schools are out of control and rarely can the public challenge them.
-
Reviewing that detroityes website convinces me they will never run out of the next ready built movie sets for all the TEOTWAWKI movies. Don't tell Hollywood.
-
Reviewing that detroityes website convinces me they will never run out of the next ready built movie sets for all the TEOTWAWKI movies. Don't tell Hollywood.
They know already. The mentioned Michigan Theater was used in The Island as part of a wasteland LA of the future.
-
The Michigan legislature has recently (2007?) passed legislation that makes the state financially attractive to filmmakers.
-
Here's a few pics from AR15.com of the Highland Park Police Dept that was abandoned after the city went bankrupt.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1761-2%2FIMG_4999.JPG&hash=e3ac23a864e06b722def0fe4b3d12b8761b5d410)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1981-2%2F_MG_4987.jpg&hash=2da724424eb06d6a69ba191f863f7938d5880674)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1986-2%2F_MG_4988.jpg&hash=a5671701905b39d386ed69ceac000435d3a7edad)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1766-2%2FIMG_5003.JPG&hash=57ce933030c457f68edc761c21ee3c224638db0e)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1771-2%2FIMG_5004.JPG&hash=95c35640434e2a8f73c66c2e5680e157d8ddecf1)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1791-2%2FIMG_5019.JPG&hash=d43c7c4b9d7e657137ded4f06c5e5214627f8e83)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1786-2%2FIMG_5018.JPG&hash=b89538bc1d97c2ff6b32073253aae0c0d9dc14cb)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1826-2%2FPicture_20012.jpg&hash=31e4cd910640887793341894157726eae4606f3b)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1781-2%2FIMG_5015.JPG&hash=f2d4f22d170602873c2e631fb6a25cbf17662076)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1776-2%2FIMG_5014.JPG&hash=ce93789e8d100f9277900042608ebee91e3f3c77)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1816-2%2FPicture_20010.jpg&hash=66329cc2c3c8a8496053b5c14a880202526942e0)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1966-2%2FPicture_20099.jpg&hash=b5d9015afaf990c219620d0cf4503497bf03d2bd)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1831-2%2FPicture_20019.jpg&hash=95aeb11ad4e288311c50264ab9c46ebec9c5819b)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1836-2%2FPicture_20021.jpg&hash=e2c1bac8b3f84bd0242a8e356c16c3bd25d20b0a)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1856-2%2FPicture_20047.jpg&hash=8c41b35e44fba47a466412376146783d15d4115d)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1861-2%2FPicture_20048.jpg&hash=5525c971d79b3dec6d03a82f5ef307cc715eefc0)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1745-2%2FIMG_4968.JPG&hash=8b62502b51dc4abc4e85d0d2ef6d8382871db685)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforgottenmichigan.com%2Fgallery2%2Fd%2F1751-2%2FIMG_4970.JPG&hash=90eba5077d91d62a790522115e6f449974001f33)
-
Something fishy about that book depository pic. There is visible charring on the books and soot marks on the ceiling and walls. Looks to me like the aftermath of a fire, not a simple abandonment. The quote even mentions something about it...
Pallet after pallet of mid-1980s Houghton-Mifflin textbooks, still unwrapped in their original packaging, seem more telling of our failures than any vacant edifice. The floor is littered with flash cards, workbooks, art paper, pencils, scissors, maps, deflated footballs and frozen tennis balls, reel-to-reel tapes. Almost anything you can think of used in the education of a child during the 1980s is there, much of it charred or rotted beyond recognition. Mushrooms thrive in the damp ashes of workbooks. Ailanthus altissima, the "ghetto palm" grows in a soil made by thousands of books that have burned, and in the pulp of rotted English Textbooks. Everything of any real value has been looted. All that's left is an overwhelming sense of knowledge unlearned and untapped potential.
Methinks the story is long on drama and short on fact.
Brad
-
Something fishy about that book depository pic. There is visible charring on the books and soot marks on the ceiling and walls. Looks to me like the aftermath of a fire, not a simple abandonment. The quote even mentions something about it...
Methinks the story is long on drama and short on fact.
Brad
Because nothing abandoned in Detroit ever gets set on fire by people who have nothing else to do...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.culma.wayne.edu%2Fdirtydozen%2Fsmallpix%2F14061Linnhurst.JPG&hash=179211acbc4a280e4633dc0fc437700e225e9e83)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.culma.wayne.edu%2Fallsaints%2Fpix%2F2002Mullane.jpg&hash=fad8bb48ce6d8b093e55ef48f82b1f58b1c824a6)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.culma.wayne.edu%2Fallsaints%2Fpix%2F8356Gartner.jpg&hash=e8be4a30094c27687e665c13d935d3a3c8c2baef)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.culma.wayne.edu%2Fdirtydozen%2Fsmallpix%2F13977Alma.JPG&hash=d88953c266d0f0a540a508cadfb8a477f00c4c31)
That's what they do there. Every night.
-
That's what they do there. Every night.
Quoted for the truth.
-
Is Detroit worse than other major cities? Why? Too heavily-dependent on a now-sluggish auto industry?
I was just looking at a French map of the Tsushima Strait, and found out what "detroit" actually means. Very fitting. =(
-
No, Fistful, Detroit has good and bad parts, believe it or not. I know, shocking, ain't it?
Manedwolf just likes to focus on a narrow view for the sake of his typical and now-famous posting style here.
It's as if he's totally unaware that other large, old cities in the U.S. don't have their own particular problem areas. Corrupt city government? Say it ain't so...
Urban blight is not the exclusive domain of Detroit. Far from it. You could take those pictures of burned-out residences and abandoned buildings, and attach a different city name like Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, etc.
I doubt anybody could really name them all, there are so many, but even I've seen a bunch of them up close and personal, and I live a fairly sheltered life.
Detroit is just his target du jour in the general OMG, WTF, outrage & superiority scheme of things this week. Stay tuned...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmauser98.com%2Favatar11360_9.gif&hash=7dcac8f973d8cf086b661d1db95dcb29d691933a)
-
bedlamite: link to that topic?
-
Manedwolf just likes to focus on a narrow view for the sake of his typical and now-famous posting style here.
So who is right? Gewehr and Brad, or Balog and Manedwolf?
I have a tendency, personally, to doubt Manedwolf, (which an emotional more than a logical thing and may be a subconscious response to his writing style) and it may be coloring my view of this subject, so I would like to apologize if this question offends him in any way, this is not my intent.
Can any Detroiters explain?
-
I doubt there are any bona fide Detroiters here. Seems we're pretty suburban and rural, and mostly white. I grew up 2 miles north of Detroit. They are both right.
Once, my car broke down at Five Mile. Seemed ok to me, but several black women expressed concern and one sent a guy to wait with me. No place for a white girl was the concensus. My father, for a while, managed apartments for an absentee landlord. One building was in Highland Park. He witnessed some pretty bad stuff. A friend lived downtown in a cool old apartment. No problems.
City services are mostly nonexistent. Drunk drivers are told to go straight home. No resources to maintain a drunk tank. Eh, it goes both ways. The good spots are now very troubled too though.
-
Yes, certainly, Detroit isn't That Bad at all, and when sociologists, doing multi-year studies use the words "beyond help", they're just exaggerating. When they have to level entire abandoned neighborhoods to stop the crackhouses, leaving urban prarie (google urban prarie) with grids of streets among weeds, that's overreacting. When there's articles about "Should Detroit be abandoned?", that's hyperbole as well.
;/
There are few American cities that are THAT bad that many sociologists consider them irrecoverable. Detroit, with what even residents consider a "false facade" area of a stadium and casinos, is one. Camden NJ is another.
There are special cases, where a perfect storm of shifting industry, self-destructive behavior by some residents, and mismanagement by a lousy administration (usually entitlement Democrats) has turned a formerly thriving city into what is mostly a bad, bad place. It is not just the abandoned buildings, it's the CRIME. I think some people need to look up the violent crime stats for Detroit, which are absolutely outside of anything in the US, before accusing me of "Detroit is just his target du jour in the general OMG, WTF, outrage & superiority scheme of things this week. Stay tuned..."
Maybe read some of the interviews with residents, who have had to put barbed wire around their house because the police don't even come.
The place, except for a few isolated and insulated enclaves, is truly horrific.
Fine, then. Detroit is an unfairly maligned paradise, and other cities ought to follow its Democrat example, I am misplaced in warning about what such policies might bring. Obama will solve all problems. The clouds are fluffy and pretty. Whatever. ;/
-
Once, my car broke down at Five Mile. Seemed ok to me, but several black women expressed concern and one sent a guy to wait with me. No place for a white girl was the concensus.
Maybe they're afraid of white girls. :laugh:
I was just looking at a French map of the Tsushima Strait, and found out what "detroit" actually means. Very fitting. =(
Probably too obscure. "Detroit" is French for "strait," meaning a narrow channel between two land-masses. But it has come to mean a tight place or difficult circumstances. As in the phrase "in dire straits," or even "straitened" in the King James Version.
1 archaic : strict , rigorous
2 archaic a: narrow b: limited in space or time c: closely fitting : constricted , tight
3 a: causing distress : difficult b: limited as to means or resources
Perhaps it's fitting that Detroit is on one, named for one, and apparently in one.
-
"Yes, certainly, Detroit isn't That Bad at all, and when sociologists, doing multi-year studies use the words "beyond help""
Numerous cities have been described as being "beyond help" over the years.
That seems to be a rather favorite catchphrase in the urban planning industry for "bulldoze the entire thing and put in an interstate."
It's funny, though, that many of the urban areas that have been described as being "beyond help" have made rather dramatic turnarounds.
Newark, New Jersey, is in the middle of such a transformation.
Philadelphia and Pittsburgh have both been written off in the past, and both have made amazing turn arounds.
-
bedlamite: link to that topic?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=772372 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=772372)
-
I grew up within sight of the Renaissance Center (on a clear day).
In High school, I'd ride my bike through Coleman Gardens - the neighborhoods depicted in the "DetroitYes" link, Between JohnR and Woodward, Between I-75 and Warren. I recognize some of those homes. My senior prom was at the Detroit Boat Club, also depicted on that link. I (like many other of my peers) had a beer can collection. Mine had a brick from the demolished Stroh's brewery.
I was standing in Trumbull smoking street reefer when Kurt Gibson hit one out of Tiger Stadium to win the '84 Series (or was it the pennant?). The DPD mounted division had to run me (and several thousand others) out of the way hours later.
I locked my keys in a friends van before a concert at Grand Circuis Theater in 1984 (Bon Jovi - 4 dollars, sat on the back of the seat in the second row). We came out and asked a beat cop to help us unlock the van... He slim jimmed it, saw the bottle of Tennesse Whiskey on the motor cowling, laughed and said (this is a direct quote) "Jack'll kick your ass" and walked away with a chuckle.
We had a number of bars we went to and drank underage, some were money fronts supporting the IRA, others had back rooms where we could buy anything that the bible warned against... We got mugged at knifepoint, ran red lights, crossed the border...
Had a typical adolescence.
It was as bad as depicted. In most places, it was worse, but not nearly as photogenic.
One of the starkest sights I ever saw was a federal housing project, roughly 5-10 acres, abandoned, vandalized, partially burned surrounded by 8 foot chain link topped with razor wire.
Holes were dug and fabric bent to allow access (for god only knows what purpose). This was late college, 1988-89. In 1990 I moved away.
I took my wife (not from Detroit) back through the 'hood for a Saturday afternoon drive in 1995 or so to check on those grand old architectural ladies. I wasn't scared, Hell, I was a native, I own these streets..
It was worse than I'd remembered, and I've never wanted to go back.
The photographs, the corruption, the waste, the fire...
It's all real.
It's typical.
It's Detroit.
I'll be back tonight to answer questions. I've got to move some firewood around and get groceries.
-
Detroit has a cancer and it's inoperable. Their are no bad "parts" of town, but there are still some good parts where the cancer hasn't metastasized.
-
Detroit has a cancer and it's inoperable. Their are no bad "parts" of town, but there are still some good parts where the cancer hasn't metastasized.
Well put.
-
Watched April Wine at Cobo Hall 1981 I think. Came out to find my friends car stripped right next to the curb. Called home and waited for an hour for my older brother to come get us. It was down right spooky watching people watch us. Watched the baddest drag race on the street ever on gratiot ave. 1969 Buick stage III against a 1967 Plymouth Barracuda. The Cuda had skinnier tires than the Buick and he had to roll off the line. The Buick was smokin fast until the Cuda got rolling. He hit the gas in second gear and it was all over but the crying. Unfortunately the guy in the Cuda couldn't stop and went through the intersection and T-boned a delivery truck. DOA.
Detroit was killing people at a high rate back in the late 70s. According to my relatives that still live around there. It hasn't slowed much. I read somewhere that the cities population has fallen below 1 million as of a few years ago. Democrats didn't kill Detroit. Unions did.
Jim
-
"Yes, certainly, Detroit isn't That Bad at all, and when sociologists, doing multi-year studies use the words "beyond help""
Numerous cities have been described as being "beyond help" over the years.
That seems to be a rather favorite catchphrase in the urban planning industry for "bulldoze the entire thing and put in an interstate."
It's funny, though, that many of the urban areas that have been described as being "beyond help" have made rather dramatic turnarounds.
Newark, New Jersey, is in the middle of such a transformation.
Philadelphia and Pittsburgh have both been written off in the past, and both have made amazing turn arounds.
Right. They are only "beyond help" to the extent that people want their old jobs (which due politicians buying the votes from the union, were forced to pay them way too much) to come back. They don't realize their collective mindset (getting greedy and abusing what their parents/grandparents had set up to battle deplorable conditions) had priced their employers right out of business. Basically, they had a handout job which paid good money for little skill, little production, and mandatory breaks. It is easier to sit around, cry and drink on welfare, than to work hard and get a real job (which will be harder and pay less).
(Before anyone gets on me, I worked union and non-union jobs putting myself through college so I have seen the difference first hand. Getting hired at a union shop requires an in (usually a parent) but no real definable skill set. People with skills are denied because space is limited to people 'in the club'.)
I come from a town in the now called "Rust Belt" and every year politicians (Democrats mostly) come rolling in saying they're going to bring back the old jobs at the old wages. What a bunch of lies. There is hope to turn around a city but little hope to bring back steel/auto jobs. One has to create new jobs and new industry much as Philly and Pittsburgh did.
-
The only non-shiaty parts of Detroit are the parts where truckloads of $$$$ have been poured into them to make it attractive to outsiders who don't intend on spending much time there. Yeah you have the Casinos, the Red Wings and Pistons, the Auto Show, and Super Bowl XL. But these are the only things outsiders see. It's all centered in a small area of Detroit that has been deliberately painted over to make people think Kwame was doing good. Before Super Bowl XL particularly was when it was most obvious where Detroit expected tourists to go, and where they didn't.
So yes there are some "good" parts. But don't pretend that they are naturally good. They would be just like the rest of Detroit if not for the efforts of Kwame and his gang to make things seem better than they really are, for the sake of tricking outsiders into thinking the city isn't ruined. He basically devoted 99% of the cities resources into "fixing up" 1% of the city. The rest is a burned out crime ridden husk. And it's very obvious where one ends and the other starts. You can go from Motor City Casino and all of it's flash to what looks like Somalia in 1 city block. It really is that bad. I only live 20 minutes from Detroit. If it really is that big of a deal to APS, I can grab a battle buddy from my Guard unit who also has a CPL, and go drive around with a video camera to show you what it's like. I won't go there alone though. At least another guy, both of us armed is the minimum. I even go out of my way to drive around Detroit to get to some of the better haunted houses this time of year. It's not hype. Detroit really is like little Mogadishu. And Kwame was pretty much Aidid.
-
C'mon now, Detroit was pretty messed up, and had some ok spots whitewashed over, long before Kilpatrick. Archer was a brief respite.
-
I know. But Kwame is responsible for the most recent, especially all of the Super Bowl XL fiascos.
-
Is Detroit worse than other major cities? Why? Too heavily-dependent on a now-sluggish auto industry?
I was just looking at a French map of the Tsushima Strait, and found out what "detroit" actually means. Very fitting. =(
Just like there are failed countries (Haiti, Somalia, etc.) there are failed cities.
Detroit surely looks like one of them, given the data.
For instance, it has lost half its population since 1950 (1,850,000 to 917,000 today). In that same time, Atlanta has increased its population by 60% and Dallas by 300%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas
I dunno, but if you have to develop terms like "urban prairie" to describe what is occurring when entire neighborhoods have been bulldozed, I think something is more amiss than in your average big city.
http://detnews.com/specialreports/2001/elmhurst/thulead/thulead.htm
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdetnews.com%2Fspecialreports%2F2001%2Felmhurst%2Fthulead%2Fa021elmhurststreet1a.jpg&hash=372b156586e40d8f61dee6beee489e862d79c726)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.landliving.com%2Fimage%2Fddd_7.jpg&hash=96511047c568b7866852d86dc3aa548d1f3aaade)