Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on October 17, 2008, 09:32:34 PM
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Courtesy of the almighty wiki, which is as always a faithful provider of odd things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident
More detail:
http://www.sptimes.ru/story/25093
Discussion:
http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/03/08/the-dyatlov-pass-accident-and-the-fatal-unknown-compelling-force/
Russian students go into the mountains. One turns back early because he's sick. The other nine die.
The Soviets blame it on an "unknown compelling force." :rolleyes:
Now, you would see it spun as a 'tragic skiing accident' in this country. And everything makes sense that way. I would think the Soviets would do the same thing - make sure to allay fears, don't scare people with some wacky talk about unknown compelling forces.
Then again, that u.c. force could've been Fistful.
What say you?
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Creepy stuff. Maybe they'll include it in an episode of Fringe.
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I wonder what kind of photo processes were in use in the Soviet Union then that gave all those photos an orange cast.
And, if there were high levels of radiation on the bodies, I wonder why the film in the cameras wasn't affected...
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Overall, extremely odd. Nothing 'fits'.
Bone damage, but no soft tissue damage. Overpressure, maybe, but there would be massive hemoraging. If blood vessels in their eyes bust or they had massive bruising, I'd say it was some kind of thermobaric weapon. That and secondary effects from such weapons are bloody obvious as they tend to be destructive.
Whatever it was, it was scary enough to send eight Russians running away from prepared shelter into the night with a likely temperature of -10 F and a nasty windchill. That is certain death, and as experienced Ural hikers they knew this. What is more frightening than certain death by hypothermia? Drugs would be the obvious answer, but I would think that they did a tox scan on the corpses. Drugged up college kids wouldn't be a state secret, even in 1950's USSR. Wouldn't explain the radiation, however. Rads, but no obvious source. It had to come from somewhere. Why would it be on the corpses and equipment, but not the surrounding area?
I read the skeptics' page. Their opinion is 'weapons testing' and scoff at the oddity of the situation. Uhm, yea, no weapon exists then or now matches the description of what happened. Any single aspect has a possible answer, but none fit with the rest of the facts. My 'rational guess' would be that something was omitted or removed from official records.
With the details as they are, I'd personally chalk it up as "Weird things happen that are beyond our understanding." There are a lot of strange things out there in the world.
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If blood vessels in their eyes bust or they had massive bruising, I'd say it was some kind of thermobaric weapon.
There is some speculation that their behavior indicated blindness. Although they were out in the wilderness in the middle of the night; may have just been no light to see by.
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http://www.cracked.com/article_16671_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-with-really-obvious-solutions.html
Probably an avalanche.
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If blood vessels in their eyes bust or they had massive bruising, I'd say it was some kind of thermobaric weapon.
1. Not invented at the time.
2. Involve 2000-degree temperatures.
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Probably an avalanche.
An avalanche does not fit, for multiple reasons:
1.Their footprints would have not been visible, as they would have been erased by the snow.
2.They would have all had injuries.
3.Paradoxic undressing does not account for all six people undressing at once, nor does it account for them cutting clothing off the dead to wear.
4.The official report actually mentions very high doses of radiation on the bodies. Not consistent with avalanches AFAIK.
5.The tent was ripped open from within.
As Dr. House would have said – if it were an avalanche, don't you think the original investigators in 1949 would have figured it out?
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As I've gotten older one lesson has really sunk into my poor brain: There's an awful lot of things out there that I know nothing about.
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An avalanche does not fit, for multiple reasons:
1.Their footprints would have not been visible, as they would have been erased by the snow.
2.They would have all had injuries.
3.Paradoxic undressing does not account for all six people undressing at once, nor does it account for them cutting clothing off the dead to wear.
4.The official report actually mentions very high doses of radiation on the bodies. Not consistent with avalanches AFAIK.
5.The tent was ripped open from within.
As Dr. House would have said – if it were an avalanche, don't you think the original investigators in 1949 would have figured it out?
1. They exited the tent in fear of more avalanches, thus footprints after the event thus visible.
2. Not necessarily, some folks survive avalanches unharmed
3. The ones who exited in fear of more avalanches while undressed died first, the survivors lasted longer. Further those dressed in other clothes were the bodies found in the ravine further away, as if those in better mental condition and clothing went for help and got caught in another and died there.
4. I haven't seen the official report and the Cracked article mentions the radiation as being added after.
5. If the tent was in or near an avalanche, they would probably have had to cut their way out. Zippers in canvas freeze easilt.
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4. I haven't seen the official report and the Cracked article mentions the radiation as being added after.
Just from the tone of the article, I'm having trouble taking "Cracked" seriously as a source of info.
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Why would they outright lie about the radiation?
They didn't lie about anything else. They are skeptical sarcastic.
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Lie? Who said anything about lies? Like you said, skeptical sarcastic. All they seem to want is a good laugh. Which isn't much better than a website that only wants a good spook. If that makes sense. :|
That said, it's not a comment on the website as a whole. I don't know nothin' 'bout them.
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Their's is the only place cited that mention the radiation not being in the initial report.
If that was an invention then it was a lie.
That's all I was saying.
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According to that St. Petersburg Times newspaper, the really-high-doses of radiation were in the initial report.
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According to that St. Petersburg Times newspaper, the really-high-doses of radiation were in the initial report.
The problem is we all know how unreliable newspapers can be on the facts. Most reporters do little better than looking at Wiki anymore.
That's really the key. If there was abnormal radiation detected by calibrated equipment it changes the scenario. It also matters just how good the initial investigation was and who performed it. The late 50's weren't the premier era for great work even by the nominally qualified (the whole weather balloon/crashed space craft Rose-whatever site in the US).
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And I'm thinking - I can certainly do better than at least some of these guys - I just finished reading a Russian action pulp that involved a submarine deploying in the Caucasus mountains.
A nuclear submarine?
Holy crap, you've found the tie-in.
That book is disguised as fiction but is really someone "in the know" getting the truth out!
=D
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A nuclear submarine?
Holy crap, you've found the tie-in.
That book is disguised as fiction but is really someone "in the know" getting the truth out!
=D
A miniature cargo sub. Don't even ask.
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A miniature cargo sub. Don't even ask.
Oh, well, not to threadjack, but I can totally see that.
Remembering of course that I am an idiot. =D
As far as this incident goes, I'm not trying to be derisive or anything. That was a weird era for this sort of reporting. It would be interesting to get a translation of the initial report to see how much has been twisted over time through repetition and how much might be CYA by officials who were doing something those skiers stumbled into.
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Understand I'm not saying it's aliens or whatnot. I'm just saying that the 'obvious' answers don't work on this one. Nature is full of some truly outlandish stuff that sometimes happens.
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Hmmm.. don't certain radiation types have more impact on bone due to the calcium content? That would explain the bone degredation without corresponding soft tissue damage.
Brad
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Did this take place near Roswellgrad ???
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Just from the tone of the article, I'm having trouble taking "Cracked" seriously as a source of info.
I don't know if their info is exactly academically credible, but their humorous skepticism is a nice departure from the wild-eyed conspiracy theory nonsense that tends to spring up when somebody writes about "the unexplained" on the internet.
In this case, we know for certain that we have about 4% of the facts. It was a 1959 soviet state investigation. I'd want independent confirmation that there were actually hikers before believing that anything happened at all.
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In this case, we know for certain that we have about 4% of the facts. It was a 1959 soviet state investigation. I'd want independent confirmation that there were actually hikers before believing that anything happened at all.
=D