Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: ilbob on October 24, 2008, 10:12:05 AM
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http://www.webscription.net/p-930-the-pournelle-continuum.aspx
Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer are both good SHTF and good SciFi.
Part of an eleven e-book Pournelle bundle for $20. Can't get much of a better deal than that. And no DRM!
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I thought the latter was silly. CA would be the FIRST place destroyed in a global upheaval due to the tectonic instabilities...not the only place surviving!
But then, Niven lived there, so he was projecting in his work. He also had it be the only place surviving a solar flare in Inconstant Moon. It got a bit ridiculous.
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It made a certian amount of sense.
CA is one of the few places in the continental US where large urban areas have quick acces to higher elivations/wilderness. Especially back in the 60's/70's when there was a more "western: land-useage pattern.
The Appalacian mountains are smaller, and on the "older end" of the U.S. with greater distributed population etc. And the San Joaquin valley is protected and largely surrounded by mountains on all sides.
I understand the criticisims of the location/setting, but it's not one that completely insults the reader's intelligence either.
Who else would love to read Pournelle/Niven sequels to Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer set in the "now" of the sort of alternate time-line early 21st century? Where humanity and the surrendered/integrated Fithp face another ship from the Fithp homeworld, or stage thier own Bussard ramscoop military/diplomatic/exploration expedition to Tau Ceti etc. Or perhaps even have the predecessor species that left teh Thuktunthp stones to jump-start any later evolved race's technology make a comeback appearance...
And one set in 2008 of Lucifer's Hammer where the San Joaquin valley with it's food and nuclear power starts making contact with other enclaves of survivors, or exploring the world.
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I liked them both, but the 1970s "bawmp, ditty, bawmp-baaaawmp" setting was a chuckle-inducing in Lucifer's Hammer.
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I enjoyed Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling. If you get past the unexplained and potentially-supernatural reason for the S hitting the F, it's a good aftermath story, and not really SF/Fantasy at all; there's nothing in it that doesn't make sense in a "real world" way.
Getting ready to read the second in the series.
-BP
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I thought the latter was silly. CA would be the FIRST place destroyed in a global upheaval due to the tectonic instabilities...not the only place surviving!
Much of it didn't. I seem to recall a brand new topographic feature called the "San Juaquin Sea" (or was that a different disaster book -- it's been half a human lifetime since I've read Lucifer's Hammer.)
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Its all fiction.
Its not intended to be realistic so much as to tell a story.
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Alas Babylon by Pat Frank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alas_Babylon
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Much of it didn't. I seem to recall a brand new topographic feature called the "San Juaquin Sea" (or was that a different disaster book -- it's been half a human lifetime since I've read Lucifer's Hammer.)
Yep, the weeks of salt rain from the comet impact in the ocean created the inland sea.
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Yep, the weeks of salt rain from the comet impact in the ocean created the inland sea.
And would have brought down all the hillsides they were on in massive mudslides, but hey.
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I enjoyed Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling. If you get past the unexplained and potentially-supernatural reason for the S hitting the F, it's a good aftermath story, and not really SF/Fantasy at all; there's nothing in it that doesn't make sense in a "real world" way.
Getting ready to read the second in the series.
-BP
A very good book. The pagan priestess chick reminded me of you BP (but in a good way).
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A very good book. The pagan priestess chick reminded me of you BP (but in a good way).
Thanks. =)
The community that she and her followers were aiming to build is not unlike some ideas that I have had for my Grove. One thing I will say about the way she was portrayed (and this is something that is tragically prevalent in all manner of SF/Fantasy, as an effort to try to convey that these people are "different", spiritually) is that she used exclamations that were way the heck too long.
When I watch a plane fall out of the sky and crash, chances are, my swearing is going to be short and to the point, along the lines of "Damn!" or "Holy s*&^!". Not (as in the book) "Great Goddess, Mother of all, protect us!" That sort of stuff pervades most fiction that depicts people who aren't "everyday folk", and I'll tell you right now, a "Great Good Goddess!" exclamation comes nowhere near the handy utility of a "F&*%!"
Often people are surprised to find out I'm a preacher, when they meet me in person. =D Can't wait for my next high-school reunion.
-BP
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That reply is full of win BP. =D
I thought it was a bit odd that he isn't pagan. He certainly portrays the priestess (what was her name?) as having some kind of supernaturalish powers during the big fight scene.
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That reply is full of win BP. =D
I thought it was a bit odd that he isn't pagan. He certainly portrays the priestess (what was her name?) as having some kind of supernaturalish powers during the big fight scene.
Isn't he? I had him figured for one, based largely upon the actively-positive treatment he gave the coven in the book.
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In the intro he says something about not being a pagan, but respecting them, spent a lot of time in a coven researching etc.
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In the intro he says something about not being a pagan, but respecting them, spent a lot of time in a coven researching etc.
Ah, so. Well. It's good of him to spend the time observing a religion (any religion) in order to depict it well instead of stereotypically.
I have a heck of a lot of research in front of me, because one of the books I'm currently working on is going to involve clergy from as many different religions as I can manage to get hold of, and it's my goal to depict them all with as much care as Stirling did.
-BP
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As many times as it has been invoked, I'm sure there is some Holy _____ somewhere...
On a business networking site I've been looking at recently, there's some doof hypothesizing "what would happen if 1000 random people were dropped on an island?"
They don't take kindly to questions like "What kind of island? Is it capable of feeding a thousand people?"
"What about people with pre-existing medical conditions, like diabetes - they're gonna croak pretty fast. And there's going to be at least a percent or so who are pretty old. And at least one percent will will be violent criminals..."
And he doesn't like cops - his hypothesis was that they'd end up running a protection racket.
And he thinks that salesmen and recruiters will end up in charge, having negotiated a way for other people to work for them.
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Alas Babylon by Pat Frank
Earth Abides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Abides) by George R. Stewart. Best disaster book, ever, even though all the SHTF action happens offstage in the first chapter.
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As many times as it has been invoked, I'm sure there is some Holy _____ somewhere...
On a business networking site I've been looking at recently, there's some doof hypothesizing "what would happen if 1000 random people were dropped on an island?"
They don't take kindly to questions like "What kind of island? Is it capable of feeding a thousand people?"
"What about people with pre-existing medical conditions, like diabetes - they're gonna croak pretty fast. And there's going to be at least a percent or so who are pretty old. And at least one percent will will be violent criminals..."
And he doesn't like cops - his hypothesis was that they'd end up running a protection racket.
And he thinks that salesmen and recruiters will end up in charge, having negotiated a way for other people to work for them.
I bet he read "Lord of the Flies" in school.
Remind him of that and ask why that isn't the more likely scenario.
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I remembered "Lucifer's Hammer" as my all-time favorite SHTF book. Pro'ly read it 3-4 times before ~ 1985. Picked up a copy to read again just a few months ago, and it has sorta lost it's punch. There was a lot of context in the book that demanded currency for things that are just dead. Black power, Women's Lib, etc. Just doesn't have the same ju-ju for me. Sigh.
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http://www.webscription.net/p-930-the-pournelle-continuum.aspx
Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer are both good SHTF and good SciFi.
Part of an eleven e-book Pournelle bundle for $20. Can't get much of a better deal than that. And no DRM!
Just picked up that bundle last week, a couple of days after getting their email. According to Toni's Table (Toni Weisskopf's section on the Baen's Bar forums), they're trying to get Heinlein's 'Take Back Your Government', which last I looked (a couple of years ago, IIRC) couldn't be had for under 3 digits in used form and obviously not at any price new. I like that they're putting out some of the older books that people might have read a while back, or just heard of "once upon a time" and can't get hold of in other ways.
I have both 'Lucifer's Hammer' and 'Footfall' in dead-tree form on my bookshelves. Looking forward to reading the other books in the collection.
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I remembered "Lucifer's Hammer" as my all-time favorite SHTF book. Pro'ly read it 3-4 times before ~ 1985. Picked up a copy to read again just a few months ago, and it has sorta lost it's punch. There was a lot of context in the book that demanded currency for things that are just dead. Black power, Women's Lib, etc. Just doesn't have the same ju-ju for me. Sigh.
I'd heard a lot about it, so I was very excited when I picked up a cheap reprint copy. I couldn't make it more than a couple chapters in. Terribly disappointing book.
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I'd heard a lot about it, so I was very excited when I picked up a cheap reprint copy. I couldn't make it more than a couple chapters in. Terribly disappointing book.
That was my reaction. That it was written like the adaptation of a bad 60's disaster movie, right down to all the cliches. Characters were one-dimensional cliches as well.
Alas, Babylon was a much better period work, I thought...right down to the people finding the old windup record player in the attic and being overjoyed to hear music again.