Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Don't care on November 05, 2008, 06:23:23 AM
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Remember the quote fragment? Actually, the full quotation is:
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it." Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), 1994.
It didn't pass in 1994, but here's the rub: The problems facing Feinstein to pass such a law back then, no longer exist.
The Democrats already are in charge of Congress, as well as picking up more seats last night, and will control the White House in January.
Look for the once Pro-gun Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) and Speaker of the House, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), push through a piece of anti-gun legislation that President Barack "I believe in the second amendment, but Washington D.C.'s gun law is constitutional" Obama will be obligated sign.
This will happen, if not for something that Obama's popularity could just possibly accomplish right now: “The second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.”
Hold onto your seats people. It's going to be a rough.
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Bah,
They are still smarting from the backlash from previous attempts
Brady & VPC were non players in this election
and Russia seems to be pushing a rather serious agenda.
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I don't think Russia has much to do with it. Barack will negotiate, use diplomacy.
God, I hope I'm wrong about this man. About the only good thing I can say is that my little Democratic state once again went Republican.
Stay safe.
Bob
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There are a lot of Dems that realize that the gun issue would lose them their job. So I don't think there is 51 votes in the Senate to bring about another AWB, plus the Dems didn't get to the magic number of 60.
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Who is this Obama? Oh the guy that replaced Bush!! I can't make myself call him Pres...Pr...Presi...nope can't do it.
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I no longer own any firearms.
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I no longer own any firearms.
What!? Why would I own those evil things!
No, those are replicas. You know, so I can see what they look like from Call of Duty?
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I no longer own any firearms.
You'll need to get rid of that one in your avatar before the Department of Hope brings you in for a psych evaluation for displaying such violent tendencies.
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I think you're wrong, Don't Care.
We've got Heller protecting something like that. We've got state Constitutions protecting something like that.
I also think the Dems would suffer horrendous voter backlash if they went down the trail of liberal pipedreams full of weaponless utopias and monolithic health care.
We've got major market issues right now that need fixing. Voters (for whatever reason) got rid of the Stupid Party since they refused to act on the issues. Now, the other Stupid Party gets to try, for better or worse.
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Reid and Pelosi not withstanding, I think many Democrats remember Bill Clinton's admission that the '94 ban cost the Democrats the control of congress.
How that we have many more owners of Evil Black Rifles, the backlash would be even more severe.
That's not to say they won't try a full frontal assault, though.
God, I am really depressed about the elections. Even moving to the south won't help.
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Heller? Heller will be reversed as soon as Obama appoints hardcore liberals to the court, which he definitely will.
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I'm afriad President-elect Obama is going to be a bit busy. As Biden said, someone is going to test him early, on the international stage. Perhaps Bin Laden. They will push, like many bullies do, to look for a reaction. At the same time, the market is still volatile, the housing market still in shambles, and there are great concerns about the credit card situation. Add to that the promises he made about health care and such, and his plate is full. Anyone on that side of teh aisle who decides to suddenly add an issue on the plate, like a gun ban, is probably going to get a visit from the Whip in short order.
And, with Heller still fresh on the books, a complete ban is going to be difficult to push through. Kind of hard to call a complete ban reasonable. If anything, we'll see another attempt at an AWB, mag cap limits, and other "non-Heller" issues. They'll push the envelope, to see how far it can go.
But, what we need to keep in mind is this...2 years. Obama has two years to prove himself and his goals and policies, or the make-up of the house can, and likely will, swing back the other way. Not a lot of time to waste on something like gun control.
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Heller? Heller will be reversed as soon as Obama appoints hardcore liberals to the court, which he definitely will.
Nice thing about the Supreme Court is that the justices have lifetime appointments. Unless someone starts assassinating justices, it may be a while before there's an opening to fill... Scalia wont retire with Obama at the helm.
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"They have made their decision, now let them enforce it."
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Nice thing about the Supreme Court is that the justices have lifetime appointments. Unless someone starts assassinating justices, it may be a while before there's an opening to fill... Scalia wont retire with Obama at the helm.
Not only that, but they can't just order the SC to reverse a ruling. Someone who can claim real damages has to bring the case to the SC.
Chris
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Not only that, but they can't just order the SC to reverse a ruling. Someone who can claim real damages has to bring the case to the SC.
Chris
Ah, but they can "clarify" it. And someone whose "good boy turning their life around" was shot by a fellow gangsta with a WASR will certainly "bring the necessity of an AWB" to the court, I think.
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You still need a case to go through the process. You need someone to start an action from the beginning and chase it all the way to teh Supreme Court. that can take a decade, it started in a local state court. One thing about the process is that it does take time. Can't just run to DC and file a lawsuit with SCOTUS.
Asking for clarification? Haven't heard of that one... I'll look into it.
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Who is this Obama? Oh the guy that replaced Bush!! I can't make myself call him Pres...Pr...Presi...nope can't do it.
You know we have heard the word "Shrub" and its Bush's fault for the last 8 years.
I'm going to start by blaming Barry for everything wrong in my life. Maybe if we say enough people will see it as truth.
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Wow.
There are some TRULY "gracious" winners here at the office today.
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Wow.
There are some TRULY "gracious" winners here at the office today.
In this I am fortunate.
I don't have to work with people like that. :)
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Wow.
There are some TRULY "gracious" winners here at the office today.
Hopefully they'll be so "gracious" in the face of someone who will be responsible for their promotion, or their rounding-off in the coming economic mess.
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The reason we didn't hear much from Brady/VPC in this campaign is that they didn't need to spend any money on publicity.
They Didn't Need To.
Why?
The gun community essentially negated itself as a power voting block. Enough people voted on the Hate Bush side, enough people drank the Paul Juice, and enough people wigged out in general.
We were fragmented. Some of it was done to us, but they didn't need a whole lot of help. We did it to ourselves. I wonder how many geniuses were still voting for Fred Thompson, instead of against Obama.
Well, you've got your wish.
They can pass the laws. And they think they've got the next election tied up too - because people Hate The Bush, and everything, even for Obama's first two years, is going to be Bush's fault... "This moderate approach didn't unscrew Bush's doings, so we're going to nationalize this industry." We're going to see that.
Remember: The first six years, the Republican stuff worked. Then we got a bunch of democrats in, and suddenly things start going south. Obama's "give anyone a loan" policies started to have repercussions. But that's not the dems' fault... No sir...
Reeducation? Come get me. I'm the country.
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Wow.
There are some TRULY "gracious" winners here at the office today.
I ended up choosing to leave the office rather than actually speak my mind. My department head actually requested we refrain from talking about politics but I seem to be the only one who complies with that request. =\
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Speaking for Montana, our two D senators know they would be toast if they went along with anything like that. I'm less pessimistic about the gun issue because of that.
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One of my coworkers, a Brit ex-pat and naturalized citizen, is absolutely shocked that the stock market isn't skyrocketing today in response to Obamamania. Stupid cow apparently actually believes that the only problem with the markets is the fact that the Republicans are in power, and once they're out things will right themselves quickly and on their own just because the Democrats are in power.
It's going to be a LOT of fun watching her brain melt over the next couple of months.
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One of my coworkers, a Brit ex-pat and naturalized citizen, is absolutely shocked that the stock market isn't skyrocketing today in response to Obamamania. Stupid cow apparently actually believes that the only problem with the markets is the fact that the Republicans are in power, and once they're out things will right themselves quickly and on their own just because the Democrats are in power.
It's going to be a LOT of fun watching her brain melt over the next couple of months.
PLEASE document it for us.
I'm putting money on this: her mind will refuse to let go of "It's all Bush's fault!"
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"Obama has tried to reach across the aisle with these wealth redistribution efforts to the middle class, but the damage done by Bush is too severe...businesses are attempting to move their operations overseas. Therefore, we need to nationalize X."
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Wow.
There are some TRULY "gracious" winners here at the office today.
One of the plant operators here told me that one of the "gracious" winners was running off at the mouth about the rich white people finally getting their due. This from someone who pulled down >$100k last year.
So much for a friendly workplace.
Anygunanywhere
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One of my coworkers, a Brit ex-pat and naturalized citizen, is absolutely shocked that the stock market isn't skyrocketing today in response to Obamamania.
Interestingly, the AP National news had "Stock Markets Relatively Stable After Obama Election" while the Reuters Financial News had, "Stock Market Tumbles on Economic Fears".
I think there are very few analysts who believe Obama's stated policies will be good for the market. Reporters and "believers" are another matter...
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Interestingly, the AP National news had "Stock Markets Relatively Stable After Obama Election" while the Reuters Financial News had, "Stock Market Tumbles on Economic Fears".
I think there are very few analysts who believe Obama's stated policies will be good for the market. Reporters and "believers" are another matter...
The dow is down 321 and falling! But but but but but picking Obama was supposed to cue the Good Ending with the rainbows and happy music and the sun was supposed to shine and and and...
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I'd just remind them how well gun confiscations/control has worked in Northern Ireland...
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I ended up choosing to leave the office rather than actually speak my mind. My department head actually requested we refrain from talking about politics but I seem to be the only one who complies with that request. =\
Same here...
1st thing the Director walked out onto the floor and told everyone from us managers, to supervisors to worker bees:
NO DISCUSSION OF POLITICS EXCEPT ON BREAK OR WHILE AT LUNCH!
It is possible that he was overtly influenced to make his pronouncement by my having addressed him as Comrade Boss and suggesting that I'd be petitioning the great one to redistribute some of his wealth into my coffers based on his abilities and my needs.
He was mildly amused but not for long as one of the supervisors present asked if he could be addressed as comrade LITTLE Boss since the director was comrade Boss. One of the managers decided he should be addressed as comrade Boss if the supervisors were to be Little Boss and that the director should be Big Boss. About that time we could see his eyes rolling back in his head. A half hour later when the proles showed up he made his announcement. :D
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One of my coworkers, a Brit ex-pat and naturalized citizen, is absolutely shocked that the stock market isn't skyrocketing today in response to Obamamania.
Explain this to her: the current capital gains tax rate is 15%.
Obama wants to raise it to 30%.
Selling stock under Bush would let you keep 85% of the profits; sell it under Obama, and you'll only keep 70% of the profits.
So the stock is less valuable.
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I ended up choosing to leave the office rather than actually speak my mind. My department head actually requested we refrain from talking about politics but I seem to be the only one who complies with that request. =\
I'm about ready to do the same. Everyone is gloating like there's no tomorrow and the boss is prancing around saying, "I don't have to move to Canada now!" They are sore losers AND sore winners. Typical "I'll hold my breath till I get what I want" kids.
I managed to keep my mouth shut from complaining through the Clinton administration and saying anything positive through the first 4 years of Bush, which I found adequate. There are actually rather strict rules about talking politics in Federal offices, but somehow they don't apply when it's positive talk about Democrats and negative talk about Republicans.
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I'm about ready to do the same. Everyone is gloating like there's no tomorrow and the boss is prancing around saying, "I don't have to move to Canada now!" They are sore losers AND sore winners. Typical "I'll hold my breath till I get what I want" kids.
I managed to keep my mouth shut from complaining through the Clinton administration and saying anything positive through the first 4 years of Bush, which I found adequate. There are actually rather strict rules about talking politics in Federal offices, but somehow they don't apply when it's positive talk about Democrats and negative talk about Republicans.
Report em. Document the hell out of it and narc on em to HR.
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Report em. Document the hell out of it and narc on em to HR.
Unfortunately I would only punish myself. The worst HR would do is send out an email, and they would then report up through my boss' boss' boss that I reported them. And guess who those guys voted for.
Our network got hit by a power outage from a blown transformer yesterday, and I spent all day not doing my regular job to fix stuff. I was thinking of non-chalantly announcing today that it's good to see them all surfing their left wing blogs reading up on Obama, especially since it took a conservative with useful skills to fix things for them to be able to do that, since they have no useful skills.
This is all so Ayn Rand......
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Just don't fix it. They want to take charge and run things, let them have at it. As for me, I'm gonna sit back and watch them burn themselves to the ground.
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I'm at home right now; I came home at 11 for early lunch so that I didn't choke someone.
As a graduate student I'm surrounded by Koreans, Indians, Israelis, and French. The American citizens that exist, of course, tend to lean left anyway. They are all ecstatic that Obama won. I was truly disgusted to the point of feeling physically ill.
I probably won't be spending much time at the office this week.
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One of my coworkers, a Brit ex-pat and naturalized citizen, is absolutely shocked that the stock market isn't skyrocketing today in response to Obamamania. Stupid cow apparently actually believes that the only problem with the markets is the fact that the Republicans are in power, and once they're out things will right themselves quickly and on their own just because the Democrats are in power.
It's going to be a LOT of fun watching her brain melt over the next couple of months.
Last night I told my girlfriend to watch the stock today because I said they would drop, dramatically. They've dropped some 300 point so far today. That's not quite as dramatic as I had expected, but I think it will continue to drop.
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Last night I told my girlfriend to watch the stock today because I said they would drop, dramatically. They've dropped some 300 point so far today. That's not quite as dramatic as I had expected, but I think it will continue to drop.
-400. The fundamentals SUCK. And Obama did not have a magic wand!
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Obama did not have a magic wand!
Oh he has a wand, all right - just watch out where he is going to stick it :O
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Days like today sure make me glad I currently telecommute. =D
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Actually, I had to sell all of mine to keep paying my mortage. Each and every one of them. Economy is in the toilet, in case you haven't heard.
No, no paper trail.
I live in New Hampshire, and sold them all legally with cash and a handshake.
It was tough to see them go, but between the economy and the fact I have a yound child, I did it for the children, too.
What!? Why would I own those evil things!
No, those are replicas. You know, so I can see what they look like from Call of Duty?
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One of the plant operators here told me that one of the "gracious" winners was running off at the mouth about the rich white people finally getting their due. This from someone who pulled down >$100k last year.
So much for a friendly workplace.
Anygunanywhere
Know the Feeling.
was installing $10,000 worth of draperies etc today & had the customer say much the same.
What planet are people like that Living on???
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Both of my sisters voted for The One. When I talked with the oldest (a former honest-to-God hippie), she said that "Things have been pretty hard for me. Hopefully it will get better."
Out of politeness and a desire not to hack off my elderly mother with intra-family warfare, I did not point out that her neverending economic woes are a direct result of a multiple decades long string of poor choices and lack of willingness to accept many offers of assistance (i.e. free college education from my folks -- offered annually from age 18 through about 45). Nope, it's all George Bush's fault and dreamy Obama will fix it all.
The other sister is in even worse financial shape, but that's due to a series of truly moronic steps taken over the past 8 years.
Both of them created their own mess. Both of them view my wife and I as "fortunate" or "lucky", because we're doing well (let's just forget about the extremely hard work and making appropriate decisions along the way).
Morons. :rolleyes:
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No sense getting huffy with O'Bamasupporters. Reality will rudely impose itself, fairly quickly in my view. O will fail to meet his acolytes' expectations. He will fail to correct the dangerous trends in the economy. He will at best get the appearance of progress in foreign policy away from Bush doctrine. He will be suitably tested internationally. All this reality and a lot more will continue to continue. O will rapidly assume the outlines of Carter's and we know historically how well it worked out. What O said he would do has no chance of success even if perchance some of it is implemented. The man's campaign was disconnected from economic reality and that economic reality will largely determine what in his program is implemented.
Attempting an overt assault on gun rights will merely stir up a nest of hornets he'd best leave alone. I think an attack on gun rights will come through international agreements bypassing the messy process of political debate here in the US.
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This is all so Ayn Rand
Yes, the looters are on their way! =D
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Attempting an overt assault on gun rights will merely stir up a nest of hornets he'd best leave alone. I think an attack on gun rights will come through international agreements bypassing the messy process of political debate here in the US.
Shouldn't this stir up the same hornet's nest? Treaties must be ratified by congress. Whether by treaty or law any further infringements should not be tolerated.
Anygunanywhere
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In this I am fortunate.
I don't have to work with people like that. :)
Me neither. I'm surrounded by religious fanatics in my office.
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Me neither. I'm surrounded by religious fanatics in my office.
They can be annoying, but tolerable, as long as they evince no plans to saw your head off in front of a video camera.
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Who is this Obama? Oh the guy that replaced Bush!! I can't make myself call him Pres...Pr...Presi...nope can't do it.
He doesn't want to be called President, just call Him "Comrade". And don't forget the red letters while quoting Him.
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Shouldn't this stir up the same hornet's nest? Treaties must be ratified by congress. Whether by treaty or law any further infringements should not be tolerated.
Absolutely.....and we need to be ready to sting if any of this comes about...
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Got em and gonna keep em.
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At this point, I'm not too worried about my "retirement" ;)
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I think you're wrong, Don't Care.
We've got Heller protecting something like that. We've got state Constitutions protecting something like that.
I don't put a lot of faith in state constitutions. Heller will, of necessity, require the Congress to respect it if they try to pass any sweeping new gun laws, but the states? My state's constitution has a 2nd Amendment-type clause in it that's even stronger and more explicit than the 2A ... and yet in my state it is not possible to purchase a handgun without a permission slip from the state, or a carry permit. And it is not legal to carry a handgun -- open OR concealed -- without a permit. The laws are clearly unconstitutional under the state constitution, but the problem is testing it requires that someone be arrested and convicted so they have legal standing to appeal, and who wants to be the test case? Especially with an overwhelmingly liberal state supreme court that would more than likely twist the clear language of the constitution to support the laws rather than the original intent of the constitution.
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Okay, I've about had it with some of you folks :mad:
Just what the hell makes you think that it's all going to stop with gun confiscations ???
You might be going back to your Hot Shower and SUV and fancy Coffee for a little while, but once your guns are gone they will be coming back to take you away for "re-education" or whatever else they will be calling it. :police:
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Okay, I've about had it with some of you folks :mad:
Just what the hell makes you think that it's all going to stop with gun confiscations ???
You might be going back to your Hot Shower and SUV and fancy Coffee for a little while, but once your guns are gone they will be coming back to take you away for "re-education" or whatever else they will be calling it. :police:
Be realistic. People don't eject out of a plane that seems to be flying level, departing a warm cabin violently into a cold storm, unless there's a very good reason to.
People are not going to give up their entire family, property and lives for the contents of a safe.
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Just what the hell makes you think that it's all going to stop with gun confiscations ???
People are not going to give up their entire family, property and lives for the contents of a safe.
Something to think about....only 20-30% of the American colonists actually FOUGHT the British in the Revolutionary War....and fewer than that many Americans participated in the civil rights movement...most stayed in the comfort of their homes...and you know how those turned out....
While not many will fight, the ones that will can make a lot of fuss for the establishment...
...watching what happens could be interesting....
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People are not going to give up their entire family, property and lives for the contents of a safe.
You're going to be giving up all that anyway - sooner or later - once that safe is empty.
Unless, of course, you don't think exercising your First Amendment rights is worth the effort/risk either ... :rolleyes:
It ain't just about chunks of machined metal.
Well, I guess I know now what course others will take ... :(
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I think some people have watched "Red Dawn" too many times. :rolleyes:
Fight in the courts.
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I think some people have watched "Red Dawn" too many times. :rolleyes:
Never even seen it.
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Never even seen it.
Wolveriiiines!
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I think some people have watched "Red Dawn" too many times. :rolleyes:
Fight in the courts.
That's so true. We could never beat a great military power in the long run. And that, my friends, is why we must fight now, through legal activism; before it gets so bad that we have to use guns.
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I watched Red Dawn twice this weekend.
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That's so true. We could never beat a great military power in the long run. And that, my friends, is why we must fight now, through legal activism; before it gets so bad that we have to use guns.
Some people thought that about the Redcoats in 1776.
We should exhaust legal (court) remedies first. I have little hope of it being successful after Obamarx gets his judges in ... but we need to exhaust legal recourse before we turn elsewhere.
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Nobody is advocating going toe to toe with the U.S. Military. Politicians OTOH, would be more than fair game.
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We should exhaust legal (court) remedies first. I have little hope of it being successful after Obamarx gets his judges in ... but we need to exhaust legal recourse before we turn elsewhere.
Haven't we Already?
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We should exhaust legal (court) remedies first. I have little hope of it being successful after Obamarx gets his judges in ... but we need to exhaust legal recourse before we turn elsewhere.
I agree....but, when you've seen a gov't ignore the law and legal rulings for so long.....hope fades fast.... =(
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Well well WELL...
http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/
"The page you requested is not available right now."
Did someone notice that it spilled the beans?
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Well well WELL...
http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/
"The page you requested is not available right now."
Did someone notice that it spilled the beans?
That's a little odd. If it comes back up without the AWB II section, I'll be officially creeped out. In a "time to buy more hardware" kind of way. Wonder when they will start to try to close the "NFA loophole" and get rid of the NFA toys...
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There's nothing under the "Agenda" section, except these two paragraphs, unless I'm mistaken...
The Agenda
President-Elect Obama and Vice President-Elect Biden have developed innovative approaches to challenge the status quo in Washington and to bring about the kind of change America needs.
The Obama Administration has a comprehensive and detailed agenda to carry out its policies. The principal priorities of the Obama Administration include: a plan to revive the economy, to fix our health care, education, and social security systems, to define a clear path to energy independence, to end the war in Iraq responsibly and finish our mission in Afghanistan, and to work with our allies to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, among many other domestic and foreign policy objective
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There's nothing under the "Agenda" section, except these two paragraphs, unless I'm mistaken...
There was till today!
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Well well WELL...
http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/
"The page you requested is not available right now."
Did someone notice that it spilled the beans?
Here is what it did say.
Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
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Be realistic. People don't eject out of a plane that seems to be flying level, departing a warm cabin violently into a cold storm, unless there's a very good reason to.
Why is it people think there are two alternatives only - only 'going on as before' or 'violent uprising'?
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Probably because human being have a natural aversion to upsets in the status quo, and tend to ignore and discount anything but the most obvious changes. The whole "frog in boiling water." People don't want to feel the water getting hotter.
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Probably because human being have a natural aversion to upsets in the status quo, and tend to ignore and discount anything but the most obvious changes. The whole "frog in boiling water." People don't want to feel the water getting hotter.
Let me put forward to you that it is possible to protest an injustice through various means. It's not true that the options are 'either you work within the system' or 'grab the rifle and start shooting tax agents'. Neither of these are workable solutions. One, because it hasn't worked very well so far, and the other is both counterproductive and obviously immoral.
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Part of the reason people get so upset over the thought of gun confiscation is that the whole foundation of the US Constitution is that it exists to protect people's rights, especially those of minorities.
No one can deny that members of the gun culture are a minority. But who is standing up for our rights? Certainly not the government, especially not now.
Lots of people stand up for homosexuals and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people stand up for baby killers and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people stand up for deadbeats and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people advocate for drug users and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people advocate for the insane and the masters listen and act.
But who with any real power to act, besides the NRA (and they're a bunch of weak sister compromisers), has the power to stand up for us and make a real difference in the face of an overwhelmingly democratically controlled congress and a President who is a marxist socialist.
No ONE! If obama and his cronies want to do another AWB and take them all away they can do it and no one will be able to stop them.
NO ONE!
And that's why a lot of gun owners are scared and angry. Being powerless engenders both feelings.
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Just in case anybody wants to see the original version of Obama's agenda, here is a link to a pdf. A friend with great foresight saved it while it was still there and sent it to me. He may have posted it in the politics forum already, all credit belongs to him.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7852901/Urban-Policy-Change
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How long til your friend is ordered by the People's Savior to take down the pdf of his agenda?
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No one can deny that members of the gun culture are a minority. But who is standing up for our rights? Certainly not the government, especially not now.
Lots of people stand up for homosexuals and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people stand up for baby killers and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people stand up for deadbeats and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people advocate for drug users and the masters listen and act.
Lots of people advocate for the insane and the masters listen and act.
Are you implying that homosexuals, drug users and the mentally ill are anything like baby killers?
More interestingly:
Have you considered that gun owners can stand up for their own rights without waiting for the NRA to do it for them?
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Let me put forward to you that it is possible to protest an injustice through various means. It's not true that the options are 'either you work within the system' or 'grab the rifle and start shooting tax agents'. Neither of these are workable solutions. One, because it hasn't worked very well so far, and the other is both counterproductive and obviously immoral illegal.
I am on board with that, save the last bit I "nuanced" closer to what I think correct.
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Just in case anybody wants to see the original version of Obama's agenda, here is a link to a pdf. A friend with great foresight saved it while it was still there and sent it to me. He may have posted it in the politics forum already, all credit belongs to him.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7852901/Urban-Policy-Change
The obamoid blueshirts have gotten int the habot of excising inconvenient data and claiming it did not exist. This fellow's practice of downloading the entirety rather than copying a link is, I suspect, the only way we are going to keep a record of reality the next 4-8 years, rather than an airbrushed version of events.
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The obamoid blueshirts have gotten int the habot of excising inconvenient data and claiming it did not exist. This fellow's practice of downloading the entirety rather than copying a link is, I suspect, the only way we are going to keep a record of reality the next 4-8 years, rather than an airbrushed version of events.
But we've always been at war with EastAsia........
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But we've always been at war with EastAsia......
lol, I was going to say something to that effect but you beat me to it. :lol:... :(
But who with any real power to act, besides the NRA (and they're a bunch of weak sister compromisers), has the power to stand up for us and make a real difference in the face of an overwhelmingly democratically controlled congress and a President who is a marxist socialist.
Funny thing is that to us, real socialists/communists/anarchists, you all are right wing, which includes Obama because he is NOT a socialist.
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I am on board with that, save the last bit I "nuanced" closer to what I think correct.
It is not that I think that an armed uprising is immoral in and of itself, even in a 'democratic' society.
But any major civil war or revolution brings with it the disruption of the mechanisms of civilization. If, God forbid, there is ever a Second american Civil War, it would probably mean that the mechanisms of civilization in America would be disrupted or even shut down for the duration. Further, as with all such engagements, hundreds, nay thousands of the most evil scumbags in society - the klansmen, the gang-bangers, etc. - would do their level best to take advantage of the situation. Further, on both sides there would be some unwilling to act with the restraint you and I possess. Many, many innocents would suffer and even die in the process.
This is the main (but not the only) reason why I think any such action must be averted as much as humanly possible.
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This is the main (but not the only) reason why I think any such action must be averted as much as humanly possible.
Well, it is always "humanly possible" to surrender and submit to being a slave (or worse!). It worked real well during the Holocaust. =|
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Well, it is always "humanly possible" to surrender and submit to being a slave (or worse!). It worked real well during the Holocaust. undecided
Here here.
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Funny thing is that to us, real socialists/communists/anarchists, you all are right wing, which includes Obama because he is NOT a socialist.
Yep, and after my wealth has been re-distributed, my guns confiscated and I'm being frog-marched off to the re-education center to "volunteer" my 100+ hours to "community service", I'l be able to smile and say "Well, at least Obama's not a socialist....."
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Have you considered that gun owners can stand up for their own rights without waiting for the NRA to do it for them?
Yes.
Many of us have considered the idea, then reality sets in. There are several upstarts vying for the NRA's lobbying power, like GOA, etc. None have the political clout in Washington D.C. that is the NRA's 800lb. gorilla. Individual gun owners are down there in the noise floor when it comes to being heard in Congress - "tilting at windmills" would be an apt description. While I don't necessarily agree with all of the NRA maneuvers or priorities (they stayed away from the Heller case until after it was won), and I certainly think Wayne LaPierre has outlived his usefulness, the fact remains that the NRA is the best bang for the buck in the RKBA world, bar none.
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GOA, for many people, blew their credibility out the window when Larry Prattle went off on the foaming and completely incorrect diatribes about the NICS overhaul. He called it the "veterans disarmament act", misleadingly quoted CA law as if were part of the bill, and claimed that any counseling or prescription for antidepressants would disqualify one from buying a gun...which was complete and utter lies.
To me, that group has just become his soapbox for breathless, completely erroneous ranting, all delivered with a hail of tinfoil and spittle.