Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: vaskidmark on November 24, 2008, 05:33:31 AM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3496790/Soldiers-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan-to-get-life-saving-anti-sniper-device.html
Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to get life saving anti-sniper device
British and American forces fighting the guerilla insurgence in Iraq and Afghanistan could soon be protected by an anti-sniper device that can pinpoint the position of the shooter within a fraction of a second.
By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 7:58PM GMT 21 Nov 2008
The device uses acoustic technology to calculate the exact position of the sniper fire Photo: CROWN
The palm-sized device designed by Qinetiq, the British defence firm that was once the government research laboratories, is pinned to the uniform and uses acoustic technology to calculate the exact position of the rifle fire.
Then a electronic voice passes on the "bearing and range" to the soldier allowing him to jump to safety and return fire.
The machine has already been purchased by the Americans for deployment in the New Year and the British are looking at a vehicle mounted version.
After roadside bombs, snipers have been the biggest cause of the 301 British fatalities in both wars, and army chiefs are convinced the device could save dozens of lives.
"It is all about saving guys' lives," said Don Steinman, one of the leaders of the project at Qinetiq North America who developed the device called EARS for Early Attack Reaction System.
"Knowing immediately where the shots come from means that it eliminates the confusion and allows soldiers to find cover and return fire.
"It helps to make combat scenarios, especially in urban areas, a lot less confusing. Everybody immediately knows what side of the vehicle or building to jump behind when taking fire."
The device, which costs around £2,500, works by isolating the crack of the sniper rifle thanks to four microphones, a GPS system and a powerful microprocessor.
It takes less than a tenth of a second and provides the results in audio and visual formats. It can even send a grid reference via radio to supporting artillery and aircraft.
The system, which weighs less than 6oz, is so sensitive it can tell the difference between outgoing friendly fire and incoming enemy fire and can distinguish a sniper even in a gun battle.
It also works when the soldier is travelling at up to 50 mph on a vehicle.
The device has already been road tested in Iraq and Afghanistan to claims of great success.
"The soldiers gave us feedback and we acted on it," said Mr Steinman. "The result is a powerful, rugged, and lightweight gunshot localization system that helps the individual warfighter rapidly respond to dangerous situations."
Although the range and accuracy of the device is kept secret for operational reasons Mr Steinman said they were well beyond the capabilities of a sniper.
I'm dubious at best. Sounds too much like snake oil, what with "and then jump to safety ..." and all.
OK, maybe everybody else might be able to jump to safety, but I'm guessing the targetted soldier will not be jumping anywhere.
stay safe.
skismark
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The devices really do exist. But their purpose is different. THe purpose is to allow people to return fire by knowing the direction from which the sniper is operating.
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Micro is correct. The military application is to allow accurate return fire on the position of the sniper, not to warn soldiers that a super-sonic bullet is inbound. Think of it as radar (sonar, really) that tells you where the shot came from.
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Um, if the first shot lands, it will do so before any noise arrives.
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You guys are missing the point. The "jump to safety" comment applies to the surviors, not the victim. The purpose of the device is to make the the job of sniper become a very short career choice.
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Suppressors?
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Suppressors?
Insurgents with PSL/SVD sorts generally do not have suppressors, AFAIK. Nor would they want them.
Did they ever get that "Juba" that was taking single, accurate body-armor-gap shots and only single shots in Baghdad?
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Insurgents with PSL/SVD sorts generally do not have suppressors, AFAIK. Nor would they want them.
Did they ever get that "Juba" that was taking single, accurate body-armor-gap shots and only single shots in Baghdad?
Did he exist? I heard people claiming that Juba was multiple snipers.
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Did he exist? I heard people claiming that Juba was multiple snipers.
It could have been several, in any case, it was effective propaganda by creating a mythical sniper. They even spread the story that he left the empty casing with a note every time he got someone.
Whoever the sniper or snipers were, they were taking very precise shots with 7.62x54R from an SVD pattern, and only one shot. So they were more disciplined than typical insurgents.
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When I left a month and a half ago there was still sniper activity in the Baghdad area.
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When I left a month and a half ago there was still sniper activity in the Baghdad area.
I've heard from people that the Baghdad architecture, with all the walled rooftops, external stairs and all is pretty nasty for trying to find a sniper quickly? Though also that other areas are worse. Like this is a part of Mosul.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atlastours.net%2Firaq%2Fmosul_houses.jpg&hash=01591dfd28ec43eb27c96db59d420b75109af460)
If a sniper was in THAT...I mean, holy crap. :O
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It is a sniper's dream.
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That is an amazing picture.
Doubly so if used as suggested.
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I remember reading about this tech a while back. I was like, this is going to make an enemy snipers day real bad.
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They installed a similar technology in Los Angeles and Oakland not too long ago.
Microphones on telephone poles, triangulating the location of a gunshot...
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They installed a similar technology in Los Angeles and Oakland not too long ago.
Microphones on telephone poles, triangulating the location of a gunshot...
AFAIK, it only worked for supersonic rounds, since it detected the crack of the bullet breaking the speed of sound. Which was fine for 9mm, but if someone used heavy 9mm subsonic or .45 ACP, it would not pick it up.
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AFAIK, it only worked for supersonic rounds, since it detected the crack of the bullet breaking the speed of sound. Which was fine for 9mm, but if someone used heavy 9mm subsonic or .45 ACP, it would not pick it up.
Thats good to know! Thanks!
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Actually, it looks like one of the other makers, ShotSpotter, now just brings lots of false positives to sort through:
The sensors, which were placed in a 6.2-mile swath of Dorchester, Mattapan, Roxbury, and the South End, have recorded 642 instances of gunfire this year, roughly three a day, police say.
The Rev. Bruce Wall, pastor of Global Ministries Christian Church in Dorchester, said police appear to be responding faster, cutting gunfire short.
"I will say that people aren't shooting anymore and staying in the area to assassinate people," he said. "They're getting out of the area as fast as they can."
The remaining 29,641 events recorded by the sensors, or 98 percent, have been firecrackers and other loud noises, police say. After spending the first few months dispatching officers to locations where firecrackers were reported, the department has gained enough confidence in the system to ignore most of them.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/08/04/gunshot_detector_finally_on_target/ (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/08/04/gunshot_detector_finally_on_target/)
It was the ones installed in Chicago that the makers boasted that they "detected the supersonic crack of a bullet".
BTW, the three a day in those suburbs of Boston? Handguns are banned without nearly impossible-to-get permits. Shows how well that works!
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they use it in dc with decent results as far as reconstructing what happened
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they use it in dc with decent results as far as reconstructing what happened
Nonsense, there are no guns in D.C. They're illegal there.
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yea well....
you know the best place to buy an illegal gun in dc? a high school
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In the race of arms and armor arms will always win because they act first, innovate to meet armor's advance, killing efficiently in the lapse where armor catches up. Been that way since we started making weapons. Beyond suppressors I can think of a couple of really nasty ruses that would exploit this system and I'm going to keep them right in my little head and not all over the internet.
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Funny... I always make sure to set up well back in a room, or even two rooms from a window. Muffle the shots, eliminate the muzzle flash.
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Any disciplined sniper will make only one shot. Knowing the existance of these devices, except for the haplessly ignorant, they will pick positions with an out of view and sheltered exit, fire their shot and immediately move.
Not useless, but I think gadget mania is going to be the undoing of much of a century of knowledge, judgement and human skills in warfare.
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http://gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
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Funny... I always make sure to set up well back in a room, or even two rooms from a window. Muffle the shots, eliminate the muzzle flash.
You do a lot of sniping in Misery there Bogie?
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You do a lot of sniping in Misery there Bogie?
Careful, Balog.
Do not upset or taunt The Bogie.
He comes from a long line of shooters, including one who was somewhat scorned by a loss in an 1883 shooting match:
http://www.traphof.org/carver-vs-bogardus.htm
It could be fodder for another thread, but Bogie is so tactical... =D