Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Silver Bullet on November 27, 2008, 04:19:01 PM

Title: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Silver Bullet on November 27, 2008, 04:19:01 PM
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People don't like to be meddled with.

River Tam, Serenity
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 27, 2008, 06:59:26 PM
Tam-Reynolds '12?
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Silver Bullet on November 27, 2008, 07:18:35 PM
Reynolds-Washburne
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: red headed stranger on November 27, 2008, 07:34:22 PM
One that could work for many of our "public servants."

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You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords.
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: S. Williamson on November 27, 2008, 08:28:05 PM
I was thinking

Mal: "Oh! That was bracing. They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself."
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Phyphor on November 27, 2008, 11:44:25 PM
Regarding the above: After President Reynolds met with a president from the middle east whom threatened to destroy all the USA.

Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Nitrogen on November 28, 2008, 10:52:29 AM
How is it different than us keeping a dialog open with the former USSR throughout most of the cold war?

Nikita Khrushchev said, famously at the UN, "WE WILL BURY YOU!"

We would probably have had a nuclear war with Russia in October of 1962 if we didn't have a line of communication with the USSR via U Thant and the UN.

As long as talking to your enemies doesn't preclude beating the tar out of them when appropriate, I don't see the problem.
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 28, 2008, 01:41:30 PM
So, Nitrogen, they fooled you? 

The idea that McCain, Bush or any other Republican wouldn't use diplomacy, talks, negotiation, etc., is a myth invented by Biden, Obama, and their associates.  You know, Biden?  The guy who claimed, in the debate, that McCain refused to hold talks with "Spain, Spainnnnnn."  Never mind that McCain is the guy who returned to Vietnam, to negotiate the return of POWs, or their remains, or whatever it was. 

The old strategy of "if your opponent takes issue with your far-left views, use that as a convenient opportuniy to paint him as a far-right, radical war-monger." 

Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 28, 2008, 01:43:45 PM
Isn't it taken as article of faith on these forums we OMG CAN'T NEGOTIATE with Iran and their ilk?
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on November 28, 2008, 01:53:25 PM
Isn't it taken as article of faith on these forums we OMG CAN'T NEGOTIATE with Iran and their ilk?

There's a false premise in your statement.

Diplomacy is well and fine.

Negotiation means giving something up for nothing.

I've got no problem with the "speak softly but carry a big stick" school of diplomacy.  But I do have a problem with the Clinton and Bush 43 style of diplomacy that just kept kowtowing to the likes of Kim Jong Il, giving foreign aid whenever they threaten to increase nuclear proliferation or the like.

Enemies should be dealt with as enemies.  Using diplomacy just means being polite while you prepare to eviscerate them.

ETA:  Cobb/Reynolds for 2012!
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: MicroBalrog on November 28, 2008, 02:00:11 PM
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Enemies should be dealt with as enemies.  Using diplomacy just means being polite while you prepare to eviscerate them.

Some enemies should never be negotiated with. Others can be made into friends through careful negotiation from a position of strength. It's important to be able to do both.
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: agricola on November 28, 2008, 02:15:42 PM
Negotiating Firefly-style requires a big turbofan engine (or similar space equivalent) and more than one person to negotiate with, as I recall.

 =D
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Silver Bullet on November 28, 2008, 02:40:21 PM
Negotiating Firefly-style requires a big turbofan engine (or similar space equivalent) and more than one person to negotiate with, as I recall.

 =D

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"Now. This is all the money Niska --"

"Oh I get it.  I'm good.  Best for everyone, I'm right there with you."

 =D
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Nitrogen on November 28, 2008, 04:40:41 PM
So, Nitrogen, they fooled you? 

The idea that McCain, Bush or any other Republican wouldn't use diplomacy, talks, negotiation, etc., is a myth invented by Biden, Obama, and their associates.  You know, Biden?  The guy who claimed, in the debate, that McCain refused to hold talks with "Spain, Spainnnnnn."  Never mind that McCain is the guy who returned to Vietnam, to negotiate the return of POWs, or their remains, or whatever it was. 

The old strategy of "if your opponent takes issue with your far-left views, use that as a convenient opportuniy to paint him as a far-right, radical war-monger." 



So George Bush is ready to talk with Iran then?
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: roo_ster on November 28, 2008, 08:46:49 PM
So George Bush is ready to talk with Iran then?

GW has had talks ongoing with Iran for months if not years.

But, they are low-level, under the radar talks and not "no preconditions" POTUS to Iranian pres tlaks that give the mullahs legitimacy.

Thank you for, once again, swallowing the story fed you by the MSM and the Dems.  Maybe they'll give you a cookie?
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: K Frame on November 28, 2008, 09:54:48 PM
"Negotiation means giving something up for nothing."

Where did you ever get that idea?

The Democrats?

The best definition of negotiation I've ever heard was something along the lines of "A successful negotiation is where neither party leaves the table happy."
Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: KD5NRH on November 29, 2008, 06:56:29 AM
Negotiating Firefly-style requires a big turbofan engine (or similar space equivalent) and more than one person to negotiate with, as I recall.

Yeah, some things are just easier Corbin Dallas style.

"Anybody else want to negotiate?"

Title: Re: What barry can learn from Firefly
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 29, 2008, 07:52:09 AM
GW has had talks ongoing with Iran for months if not years.

But, they are low-level, under the radar talks and not "no preconditions" POTUS to Iranian pres tlaks that give the mullahs legitimacy.

Thank you for, once again, swallowing the story fed you by the MSM and the Dems.  Maybe they'll give you a cookie?

Precisely.  McCain, and apparently Kissinger, jumped Obama for saying that he would meet with Ahmadinejad, WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS.  And as I said, the other side took advantage of the fact that most of us wouldn't understand the diplo-speak nuance that was involved.  (And I'm not so sure Obama understood it.)  So, they painted Bush/McCain as Neanderthals whose only foreign policy was brandishing clubs and bashing skulls. 

They also liked to point out that Ahmadinejad is a figurehead, as if that was relevant to the conversation.  But just by saying it, they implied that McCain and Palin didn't know it.