Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: RadioFreeSeaLab on December 07, 2008, 12:40:18 AM
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Tonight we stopped at a gun shop so I could get my fix. They had some really good prices on Para guns. I looked at one, liked it a lot, but decided to pass, even though the price was good. We left. We weren't three miles away before she had convinced me to go back and get it.
http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol_large.php?id=4
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That's the LTC? I've been lusting for one ever since they came out (but I want the steely version.)
Tell us how it works for ya.
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Yep, LTC Alloy version. It's nice and light.
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But it's a 1911.
*runs*
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Which makes it the AWESOME! :police:
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Totally awesome!
A Commander clone, sans the silly Para LDA/no hammer shenanigans, carried Cocked and Locked like John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended.
Good on ya!
Pay no attention to Manedwolf - he wouldn't know the value or utility of a 1911 if it bit him in the posterior. ;)
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Is that a real 1911 and not a fatbody?
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It probably wouldn't be politically correct to suggest shooting a posterior...
So I won't... much...
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Totally awesome!
A Commander clone, sans the silly Para LDA/no hammer shenanigans, carried Cocked and Locked like John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended.
Good on ya!
Pay no attention to Manedwolf - he wouldn't know the value or utility of a 1911 if it bit him in the posterior. ;)
I've fired 1911s. They felt..outdated, and the idea of cocked and locked seemed downright archaic. Like I might as well be carrying around a Webley Mk VI or something.
Sorry, I just don't get the enthusiasm for such an old design, when there's been so many advances. I'll take my SIG P220 anyday.
To each their own. :)
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I've fired 1911s. They felt..outdated, and the idea of cocked and locked seemed downright archaic. Like I might as well be carrying around a Webley Mk VI or something.
Sorry, I just don't get the enthusiasm for such an old design, when there's been so many advances. I'll take my SIG P220 anyday.
To each their own. :)
Sometimes what passes for advancement is just a step backwards. When it comes to trigger pulls, that's definitely the case. The "archaic" cocked and locked system is far easier to shoot than any of the "advanced" DAO and DA/SA systems they use on "modern" handguns.
Newer != better.
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Like I might as well be carrying around a Webley Mk VI or something.
As long as it's one of the .45 Webley's, I wouldn't mind at all. I think they're cool.
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One day I hope to find another Norinco 1911 for $350 like I did in 2000 but didn't buy. :(
Chris
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Tamara really likes hers...
http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2008/08/parausa-ltc-9-after-action-report.html (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2008/08/parausa-ltc-9-after-action-report.html)
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One day I hope to find another Norinco 1911 for $350 like I did in 2000 but didn't buy. :(
The Rock Island Armory GI model is only a little bit more expensive, and they seem pretty good for the price.
Is that a real 1911 and not a fatbody?
Single stack, 7-8 rounds. The LTC is pretty much like any other modernized 1911, other than its Power Extractor. It has a ramped barrel, and I think a full-length guide rod, also.
I've fired 1911s. They felt..outdated, and the idea of cocked and locked seemed downright archaic. Like I might as well be carrying around a Webley Mk VI or something.
Sorry, I just don't get the enthusiasm for such an old design, when there's been so many advances.
Then why all the enthusiasm for FALs and 1911 rifles, and such? ??? But then, I guess I just don't get it, because I don't know what "outdated" feels like. :lol:
How can cocked and locked carry be "archaic"? Revolvers aren't carried cocked and locked. =| "Archaic" and "out-dated" are matters of opinion in this case.
Single action has always seemed simpler and more intuitive to me, for an auto-pistol, any-hoo. Like you said, we each have our preferences.
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Then why all the enthusiasm for FALs and 1911 rifles, and such? ??? But then, I guess I just don't get it, because I don't know what "outdated" feels like. :lol:
Not for carry! I have Tokarevs as well, but I wouldn't carry them! They're curiosities. I've also got a Detonics Combat Master, don't carry that either. I just see a single-action pistol as very dated for carry, and cocked and locked still seems like it's an accident waiting to happen, dunno. Yes, I know there's a grip safety, but still. (The Detonics does not have one, which is why I would never, EVER carry it.)
Yeah, yeah, I know, single action is more accurate than a DA first, that's why I carry what I carry, which is SA for every shot without being SA.
I just don't understand the enthusiasm for them, that's all.
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The Rock Island Armory GI model is only a little bit more expensive, and they seem pretty good for the price.
Based on what I've read, the Norinco is made of unusually good steel considering it's origins, which is why it was such a good deal when they were cheap and available.
Chris
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Based on what I've read, the Norinco is made of unusually good steel considering it's origins, which is why it was such a good deal when they were cheap and available.
Chris
I have heard that at well, which is ironic, since the Norinco Tokarev clones were very soft steel that peened quickly.
But then, the Norinco MAK is a very good, well-fitted AK, and the Polytech "386" even moreso. Go fig. :)
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Not a <gunnery sgt. hartman> disgusting fatbody! </gunnery sgt hartman>
I also have an RIA GI 1911. It's about as close as you can get to a basic M1911A1, except for the flat main spring housing. Shoots good, pretty reliable. Chokes on big flat hollow points, but it might just need some breaking in. 100% reliable with 230 gr ball, which is all I shoot anyway.
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At one time, I owned 4 of the Norinco 1911A1 clones, and purchased them for $219.95 each through an Air Force owned FFL, no less. That caused the McClellan AFB MWR to have to fill out the multiple purchase paperwork, but there was no real problem. Obviously, this was before the Clinton-administration push to get rid of kitchen-table FFLs.
I bought them on the advise of the late Armand Swenson, who told me the forged steel used in them was every bit as good as, if not better than, the Colt and Springfield Inc. 1911 variants of the day. That was good enough for me. My own 1911-smith called the steel in the Norinco "hard as the hubs of hell". He went through a few dovetail cutters in the mill when doing Bo-Mar cuts in my guns, and named my IPSC/carry 1911A1 a "Gook Cup", as a jab at the Colt Gold Cup along with damning praise for how the Kart-barreled Norinco performed in competition.
Armand was right (when wasn't he?), and it wasn't too much later than folks like Ed Brown and Jim Clark Sr. started using the Norinco 1911s for full-custom guns. As a matter of fact, a LOT of the custom race and carry guns done by some of the better-known names used the Norinco as the basis for their conversions, because they were that good, and also quite reasonable in price compared to Colt and Springfield Inc.
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I just see a single-action pistol as very dated for carry, and cocked and locked still seems like it's an accident waiting to happen, dunno. Yes, I know there's a grip safety, but still.
I just don't understand the enthusiasm for them, that's all.
No, that's not all. You're also making up silly reasons why they are objectively inferior to something that was invented later. Invented later does not mean better. "Cocked and locked" does not mean "about to go off without warning." (Besides, many of them have new-fangled passive safeties added to the design.)
that's why I carry what I carry, which is SA for every shot without being SA.
You mean DAO? DAO are the furthest thing from SA, I don't care what Jeff Cooper says.
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You mean DAO? DAO are the furthest thing from SA, I don't care what Jeff Cooper says.
Ugh, no. DAO is a nice way to pull your shot off target every time. I do terrible with DAO.
I've mentioned what I carry, the P7. Because it's only cocked when you squeeze the grip, the first shot and every shot are crisp and light trigger SA. The only downside to it is that the gas system makes it very hot after two mags, which only affects practicing.
For a .45, I much prefer the SIG decocker. Rack slide, decock, holster. The hammer is not actually in contact with anything, it's just above it when decocked. When it actually hits, it rebounds to that position. AFAIK, the 1911 is not safe to carry chambered and with the hammer lowered? Plus if you slip while doing that, it would fire, at least that was my impression with models I'd tried?
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I believe on most 1911s, that is correct. Carry it cocked and locked, or with an empty chamber. Lowering the hammer onto a live round seems like a really, really bad idea.
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I picked up that Detonics Combat Master as a collectible because it was priced far too cheap in error, but that one rather scares me.
It's a mini 1911, yes. Supposedly quite reliable. But the grip safety is nonfunctional by design.
So if you have that thing in a holster, if the tiny safety it has gets bumped off safe, it's going to go off quite easily. How did people carry those things? They were supposedly popular with detectives in the early 80's...
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The Hi-Power has no grip safety. I carried my single action CZ-75 a few times, no grip safety. Safety stayed on, no new holes in my body. But yeah, that Detonics is a tiny little gun. Really cool.
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So if you have that thing in a holster, if the tiny safety it has gets bumped off safe, it's going to go off quite easily. How did people carry those things?
What? Guns fire themselves? Perhaps they pull their own triggers, just for spite?
I know your gun education didn't come from the Brady Bunch, so what gives? You know that gun is not going to go off quite easily, not unless you pull the trigger. And you're not going to pull the trigger, because you know how to safely handle a firearm.
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What? Guns fire themselves? Perhaps they pull their own triggers, just for spite?
I know your gun education didn't come from the Brady Bunch, so what gives? You know that gun is not going to go off quite easily, not unless you pull the trigger. And you're not going to pull the trigger, because you know how to safely handle a firearm.
I'd meant if something bumps that trigger. If a coin gets into the holster, if a retention strap slaps against it in the draw, whatever. The Detonics has a very tiny amount of travel from safe to fire, it's very easy to bump it off just by brushing it, which I would expect meant that that could happen in something like a deep concealment holster that didn't quite fit right at that point. There is no grip safety. So you'd have what amounted to a cocked, unlocked 1911 without any grip safety in your holster, with a very light trigger poised to fire from being brushed in a draw, if a strap caught it, or if something fell in the holster.
That doesn't strike me as particularly safe.
And I've seen holsters with serious flaws. Even one of the supposedly best, handmade ones for a tiny Beretta, I had to send it back with a letter that they'd left a rise of leather along the side above where the barrel release tucked into the leather lower down. The effect was that on the draw, it perfectly caught the barrel release, so you'd draw it just as the barrel pinged open and flung the unfired first round out of the chamber and up in the air. Not very effective! :lol:
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I've fired 1911s. They felt..outdated, and the idea of cocked and locked seemed downright archaic. Like I might as well be carrying around a Webley Mk VI or something.
The latter being only one of the best revolvers ever made, yes?
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I apologize for being one of those who allowed the thread to be 'jacked by someone who can apparently claim with a straight face that something can feel outdated. Sorry. =(
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Tonight we stopped at a gun shop so I could get my fix. They had some really good prices on Para guns. I looked at one, liked it a lot, but decided to pass, even though the price was good. We left. We weren't three miles away before she had convinced me to go back and get it.
http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol_large.php?id=4
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.para-usa.com%2Fnew%2Fimages%2Fproduct_photo%2FPCX745Rphoto.gif&hash=14b432121cf31006e970b284d8096d2b514d73b6)
Is she hot, too? Might be time to make an honest woman out of her then....
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The latter being only one of the best revolvers ever made, yes?
The .455 Webley was a good manstopper at close range, but not really any further. It was excellent for trench combat or being surprised by someone popping out of tall grasses with a spear in your face before the advent of small and reliable semiauto carbines, but it's rather underpowered now. On those shaved to take .45 ACP in halfmoons, you have to use low power rounds, it's not strong enough for modern defensive .45 ACP.
It's historically excellent, but would you want to carry one now?
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I, personally, wouldn't want to carry a revolver of any kind. :D
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I, personally, wouldn't want to carry a revolver of any kind. :D
:P That's all I carry. Autos are too limiting and prone to failure.
Chris
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I, personally, wouldn't want to carry a revolver of any kind. :D
I carry one while hiking. A stainless revolver is much better for outdoors stuff than a semiauto.
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I carry one while hiking. A stainless revolver is much better for outdoors stuff than a semiauto.
You must understand my lifestyle. I work from home. I study in a college. I come out to go to lectures and to collect my paychecks. And do shopping.
By the time I'm legally able to carry a firearm of any sort (no earlier than five to six years from now), I will probably have a Ph. D. Which will mean I may go on to teach in a college, which will mean I will not be able to carry a firearm to work anyway.
Regardless, my preferred work/life cycle doesn't involve me getting out that much.
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AFAIK, the 1911 is not safe to carry chambered and with the hammer lowered? Plus if you slip while doing that, it would fire, at least that was my impression with models I'd tried?
How many have you had go off when carrying that way? I've never heard of a single such incident, although I have no doubt it has happened ... somewhere, some time.
It isn't a recommended mode of carry, but only because the only "decocker" is your thumb and forefinger, and any time you are handling the hammer over a live round there is a chance you'll slip and drop the hammer. However, I know several very competent pistoleros who see nothing wrong with lowering the hammer manually. Of course, most of them also tinker with Single Action Armies. I've never quite understood why it's no big deal to manually lower the hammer on a SAA, yet it's a major faux pas if you do the same thing with a 1911.
Once the hammer is down on a 1911, it can't go off. The firing pin is an inertia pin -- it isn't long enough to make any contact with the primer with the hammer resting on it. It needs to be whacked by a falling hammer to shove it into the primer.
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Is she hot, too? Might be time to make an honest woman out of her then....
Yes, she's hot.
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I just don't understand the enthusiasm for them, that's all.
1911s are easier to shoot well (for the majority of those who try them) than any other pistol made. There is a reason why they get segregated out from other pistols in the pistol sports.
1911s also don't require a paw the size of a trash can lid to properly grasp and use.
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1911s are easier to shoot well (for the majority of those who try them) than any other pistol made. There is a reason why they get segregated out from other pistols in the pistol sports.
1911s also don't require a paw the size of a trash can lid to properly grasp and use.
I'd found the opposite personally. 1911 shoots okay. It was the 220 with a thick Hogue grip that was big-grin punching-the-center-out-of-the-target funtime right from go, though. So that's my preferred .45.
I do still like the 1911 better than the Glock, though, which has a weird grip angle that keeps me from shooting anything resembling a reasonable group with the thing.
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I was watching Ronin. The scene where Sean Bean tells De Niro that the 1911 is "an old gun" reminded me of this thread. Watch out for cups of coffee, Manedwolf. :laugh: