Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on January 12, 2009, 04:48:38 AM
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMvjaSVrpk4FwqVzz1qByd_Txs2QD95KIKNO3
they thought it was a routine auto theft, ID and house keys were in the car, deranged criminal
told himself he was only going to take "stuff"
Man shot my mommy': Ohio woman slain, son taken
(01-11) 07:32 PST Dayton, Ohio (AP) --
The 4-year-old boy's explanation was even more startling than the sight of him, barefoot and clad in pajamas, standing alone in the lobby of a highway rest stop.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.sfgate.com%2Fc%2Fpictures%2F2009%2F01%2F10%2Fba-mother_s_slay_0499642913_part1.jpg&hash=3d654e48e7400db35683623e19e880505aa2420d)
Judith McConnell and her husband, Michael, had pulled into the rest stop on Interstate 70 about 50 miles outside of Dayton just after 9 p.m. on Jan. 2.
The boy was by himself, staring out a window. Judith McConnell waved at him as they walked in. What he said next was chilling: "A man came into my house without knocking and shot my mommy."
The man then left him alone at the rest stop, the boy said.
The couple, driving home to Maryland after Christmas in Colorado, took the boy into their car to warm up and called police.
"He's been abandoned here by a man with a gun," Michael McConnell told police. "He's quite disturbed."
As they waited for deputies to arrive, the boy recited the information his mother had drilled into him — his address, his parents' names, two phone numbers.
When Montgomery County sheriff's deputies arrived at his family's small white bungalow in Dayton later that night, they found the body of his 29-year-old mother, shot to death.
The woman died after struggling with her attacker, said Sheriff Phil Plummer. The killer also sexually assaulted the boy before taking him to the rest stop and abandoning him, police said.
The Associated Press is not naming the family so as not to identify the victim of an alleged sexual offense.
Police say a man under arrest has confessed to the crimes. Montgomery County Prosecutor Mathias Heck is considering whether to seek the death penalty.
The chilling story began about a week before Christmas, when the 4-year-old's parents' car was stolen while they celebrated their fourth wedding anniversary at a rock concert in Columbus.
Police say the car, and the information inside it, led the killer directly to the family's home, about 75 miles away.
The young couple were struggling to make ends meet in a working-class Dayton neighborhood. She had left her job at a grocery store to stay home with her son. Her husband held down assorted jobs to support the family, working as an exterminator, a grocery store manager and a trainee at a bar-restaurant.
Neighbor Steve Hopkins, 41, described the boy as a precocious kid quick to make friends, even with adults.
"When he met you, he knew you," Hopkins said, saying the boy greeted him on the street with "How you doing, Steve?"
On Dec. 16, 10 days after their fourth anniversary, the couple drove to Columbus to see the band Duran Duran, Hopkins said.
Their Honda was reported stolen from an Ohio State parking garage on Dec. 17. The husband told police the car was unlocked and the keys had been left inside along with his wallet, which contained three credit cards and his Social Security card, according to a police report.
On the night of Jan. 2, he was working at a bar near their home. Police say his wife was home with their son, running a bath before bed.
The McConnells said the boy told them he was playing with his Ninja Turtle toys when a man carrying a shotgun walked up the sidewalk and broke into the house — "without knocking."
The Dayton Daily News, citing investigators, reported that the woman broke free, grabbed a knife, stabbed the intruder in the back and was shot twice in the abdomen during a struggle. She was found lying on a hallway floor.
Two days later, police arrested Charlie Myers, 22, of Columbus, who investigators say confessed to the crime.
FBI agents found that the woman's cell phone was used twice in Columbus after her death, including a call made to Myers' phone, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in Franklin County Municipal Court.
Investigators also found written directions to the woman's home in Myers' apartment, along with a computer, a Playstation 2 video game console and a cell phone, all consistent with items taken from the couple's house.
Police say Myers used information found in the unlocked vehicle to track down the couple.
Myers is charged with aggravated murder, kidnapping and gross sexual imposition involving a child under 13. He is being held in Montgomery County Jail in lieu of $5 million bail. No plea was entered, and Myers said he had no attorney.
Myers made an impromptu statement to reporters as he was being led into jail Wednesday, offering an apology and saying he had made a mistake and only wanted the family's "stuff."
He also gave an odd explanation for why the boy was taken: "I want to make sure the child could stay away from their parent because the parent had passed away."
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Myers had it rough from an early age, when his mother died of a drug-related heart attack when he was just 4. He lived in homeless shelters with his father, who beat him with a belt, and struggled with a hearing impairment that wasn't addressed until he was 6 years old. He spent most of his childhood being shuttled between more than 20 foster homes in the Columbus area, according to court documents filed in Union and Franklin counties.
Myers started smoking marijuana at age 7, drank alcohol at age 8, and when he turned 11 he attempted suicide while living in a home for troubled boys, court documents show.
At age 17, living with an aunt in Marysville, Ohio, he broke into the empty house of elderly neighbors, stole valuables and set the house on fire. A juvenile court judge declined to transfer Myers' case to adult court, saying he was emotionally and psychologically damaged because treatment for his disability had been so delayed.
"I don't want you to hurt anyone else and I don't want you to hurt yourself," said Judge Charlotte Coleman Eufinger of Union County Juvenile Court. "I believe you can be a productive citizen."
Myers served three years in a juvenile detention center and was released on July 4, 2007, his 21st birthday.
Later that year, he stole a woman's car in Columbus, then showed up at her door a day or so later.
Sky Cunningham, 25, said Myers came to her apartment in December 2007 saying he had information about the missing vehicle. She was gone at the time and a roommate told Myers she wasn't home.
Myers later pleaded guilty to stealing the car, along with another belonging to Cunningham's roommate. She said the memory of the hassle had faded until she heard of the young mother's slaying.
"That could have been me," Cunningham told The Associated Press Thursday. "I got lucky. The timing was good that I was at my other job."
The little boy found in the highway waiting area turned 5 on Saturday and is staying with relatives.
His father returned to the house once last week to put the garbage on the curb, and says he won't ever allow his son back inside.
He told NBC's "Today" that he's grateful that his wife insisted they teach the boy his address and phone numbers. He admires his son for the bravery he showed through the ordeal.
"My focus is on him," he said. "I'm doing everything I can to bring a little bit of home to him."
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And the reporter ends with the all-too-common "the poor criminal is the real victim" attitude. Disgusting.
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And the reporter ends with the all-too-common "the poor criminal is the real victim" attitude. Disgusting.
Part of me is inclined to agree. The other part of me sees this same response to an article 20 years in the future about the atrocity committed by a young man who saw his mother shot to death when he was 4 years old.
Terrible things happened to Myers, and he has now done terrible things. It's not being overly bleeding heart-y to wonder if those two things are related. He now needs to be punished, he's wrong in the head, but did it need to get this far?
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Where was the husband before during and after the shooting?
Did the reporter miss these details?
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Where was the husband before during and after the shooting?
He was apparentlly at work.
On the night of Jan. 2, he was working at a bar near their home. Police say his wife was home with their son, running a bath before bed.
Terrible things happened to Myers, and he has now done terrible things. It's not being overly bleeding heart-y to wonder if those two things are related. He now needs to be punished, he's wrong in the head, but did it need to get this far?
No it absolutly didn't. Someone could have taught him personal responsability whaen he was younger. Like a parent, or failing that, the justice system. Instead we have:
At age 17, living with an aunt in Marysville, Ohio, he broke into the empty house of elderly neighbors, stole valuables and set the house on fire. A juvenile court judge declined to transfer Myers' case to adult court, saying he was emotionally and psychologically damaged because treatment for his disability had been so delayed.
"I don't want you to hurt anyone else and I don't want you to hurt yourself," said Judge Charlotte Coleman Eufinger of Union County Juvenile Court. "I believe you can be a productive citizen."
The bolded part seems like a pretty clear sign that he was capable of violence. I'd like to see Judge Eufinger explain to the husband how emotionally damaged Meyers was, and how not going to jail for his crime was better for society.
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Montgomery County Prosecutor Mathias Heck is considering whether to seek the death penalty.
"Considering." Yeah. Right.
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link?
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link????
shoooooooot!!!
I forgot!
(I'll try to find it)
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090111/ap_on_re_us/mother_s_slaying
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Part of me is inclined to agree. The other part of me sees this same response to an article 20 years in the future about the atrocity committed by a young man who saw his mother shot to death when he was 4 years old.
I know a guy who saw his mother shot to death by a boyfriend, I believe it was. He was a young boy at the time. He served in the military, and was a steel-worker for a while, but he has been an alcoholic and jail-bird for the last half of his life, so far. He tried to steal copper wire, and lost an arm in the process, which is only the most dramatic example of his self-destructive behavior.
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I know a guy who saw his mother shot to death by a boyfriend, I believe it was. He was a young boy at the time. He served in the military, and was a steel-worker for a while, but he has been an alcoholic and jail-bird for the last half of his life, so far. He tried to steal copper wire, and lost an arm in the process, which is only the most dramatic example of his self-destructive behavior.
Reinforces the idea that the breakdown of the family system is one of our biggest problems when it comes to crime. Very much reminds me of the B.F. Skinner quote saying:
Give me a dozen healthy infants, well-formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any at random and train him to become any type of specialist I might select--doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant-chief and, yes, even a beggar-man and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations, and race of his ancestors.
Neighbor Steve Hopkins, 41, described the boy as a precocious kid quick to make friends, even with adults.
"When he met you, he knew you," Hopkins said, saying the boy greeted him on the street with "How you doing, Steve?"
It makes me really sad to hear that this kid was such a bright one, hopefully he can get some good counseling and manage to get over this, but I don't think anyone really gets over things like this, ever. I guess the most we can hope is that he learns the correct lessons out of this, and doesn't become the thing that made him.
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Reinforces the idea that the breakdown of the family system is one of our biggest problems when it comes to crime. Very much reminds me of the B.F. Skinner quote saying:
I'm sorry, what does the 'breakdown of the family system' mean here?
People who undergo truly terrible tragedies end up horribly messed up. I don't see how you can hope to fix that by reinforcing 'the family system'. Do you think that this person would have been better off had his mother married this boyfriend before being murdered by him?
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I'm sorry, what does the 'breakdown of the family system' mean here?
People who undergo truly terrible tragedies end up horribly messed up. I don't see how you can hope to fix that by reinforcing 'the family system'. Do you think that this person would have been better off had his mother married this boyfriend before being murdered by him?
Do you think the boyfriend had a good family life? Do you think that his upbringing had any role in his violent tendencies? Do you think that we cannot ascribe any these rises in violent crimes to the fact that more and more children grow up in a single parent household?
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Do you think the boyfriend had a good family life? Do you think that his upbringing had any role in his violent tendencies? Do you think that we cannot ascribe any these rises in violent crime to the fact that more and more children grow up in a single parent household?
Rises in violent crime?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F6%2F6b%2FNcsucr2.gif&hash=2e434d9c30852463e0d49bf5fe835c5c050c7e73)
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Do you think the boyfriend had a good family life? Do you think that his upbringing had any role in his violent tendencies? Do you think that we cannot ascribe any of these rises in violent crimes to the fact that more and more children grow up in a single parent household?
Fixed it for you. Now you can address what I'm actually saying. =)
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Oh Physics, you got me. What the heck did you "fix" in the quoted post? Looks exactly the same to me.....
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Oh Physics, you got me. What the heck did you "fix" in the quoted post? Looks exactly the same to me.....
lol, no I fixed MY post. Fixed the second one for you too... =D
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Fixed it for you. Now you can address what I'm actually saying.
I think the problem with that theory is that had there been a causal connection between the single-parent household and crime, we'd see a rising pattern of crimes with the divorce rate.
I also believe other things are at play - a lot of the time, a single-parent household is one where the parent experiences incredible poverty, has a history of abuse himself/herself, etc. That must also be a factor.
But I think it's a bit misguided to suggest that if Mrs. Johnson the JD with a $200,000 per annum income somehow ends up a single mom (say, Mr. Johnson divorces her before the child is born, or moves out with a younger woman, or dies in a car accident), then the child has a greater chance of ending up a criminal than the son of Mr. and Mrs. Smith who live on welfare and spawn a dozen other children before he hits 18. In fact, I'll be putting my money on Johnson, Jr. against all of the Smith household, combined.
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I think the problem with that theory is that had there been a causal connection between the single-parent household and crime, we'd see a rising pattern of crimes with the divorce rate.
I also believe other things are at play - a lot of the time, a single-parent household is one where the parent experiences incredible poverty, has a history of abuse himself/herself, etc. That must also be a factor.
But I think it's a bit misguided to suggest that if Mrs. Johnson the JD with a $200,000 per annum income somehow ends up a single mom (say, Mr. Johnson divorces her before the child is born, or moves out with a younger woman, or dies in a car accident), then the child has a greater chance of ending up a criminal than the son of Mr. and Mrs. Smith who live on welfare and spawn a dozen other children before he hits 18. In fact, I'll be putting my money on Johnson, Jr. against all of the Smith household, combined.
Good points. You are likely correct in the idea that poverty has more of a role, but I do think that a stable family is drastically important for the development of a normal individual. This is, of course, following the idea that environment is the most important factor in your growth as a person. It's hard to be a Jew if you are born a Palestinian, would be one example of what I'm saying.
Taking your example, what if Mr. Smith is a preacher, and teaches his children that they must be good citizens despite their poverty, and Ms. Johnson decides she doesn't care if Johnson Jr. is a thief. I would be more hesitant to place my money on Johnson Jr. at that point.
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Poverty and the unstable family are problems that feed on each other, along with drug abuse, abusive behavior, and other Bad Things.
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Poverty and the unstable family are problems that feed on each other, along with drug abuse, abusive behavior, and other Bad Things.
True. However, a failing family can fail even with both parents firmly in place. I watch this every day with my neighbors.
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Rises in violent crime?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F6%2F6b%2FNcsucr2.gif&hash=2e434d9c30852463e0d49bf5fe835c5c050c7e73)
Your chart needs to include years earlier than 1973.
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Your chart needs to include years earlier than 1973.
Well, yes. But the point is, there are AFAIK more divorces and single-parent households in America than there were in the 1960's. Yet there is far less crime and violence.
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I'll be printing that off as an object lesson for the next CCW class.
Evil POS needs to be fed through a wood chipper. :mad:
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Well, yes. But the point is, there are AFAIK more divorces and single-parent households in America than there were in the 1960's. Yet there is far less crime and violence.
Uh, no.
The broken-family express left the station in the 1960s. 1973 was already in the midst of the violent crime tsunami that hit and crested in the late 1980s. The divorce rate has also tracked with the crime rates, though offset.
IOW, the year 1973 is considered a "high violent crime year" relative to those 10-15 years before 1973.
The last chart shows marriage rate.
It looks like you got that graph from wikipedia.
Here are some other charts showing the relationship. All hot-linked so you can fllow to the sources.
US Violent Crime Rate 1960-2005
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F0%2F06%2FUS_Violent_Crime_Rate.jpg&hash=74163ab29c59e7456db6318b39605aedf3ed42be)
US Property Crime Rates, 1960-2005
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F3%2F33%2FUS_Property_Crime_Rate.jpg&hash=175a7f5127e2d8642d08fb800cf264abfb7ecdf0)
Divorce Rate 1950-2000
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsos.umd.edu%2Fsocy%2Fvanneman%2Fsocy441%2Ftrends%2Fdivorce.jpg&hash=daf1f5d07f617eaae4c890224f834550c3648c39)
Marriage Rate 1950-2000
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsos.umd.edu%2Fsocy%2Fvanneman%2Fsocy441%2Ftrends%2Fmarriage.jpg&hash=db2fb31e79431da7e8049ca7fbb0baa3a5b30ecc)
Female or Male Headed Households 1950-2000
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsos.umd.edu%2Fsocy%2Fvanneman%2Fsocy441%2Ftrends%2Ffemhh.jpg&hash=ed3bf108bcc459795b63d1a55e36d3ff6c84c571)
Fertility Rates for Unmarried Women 1950-2000
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsos.umd.edu%2Fsocy%2Fvanneman%2Fsocy441%2Ftrends%2Ffertunm.jpg&hash=b8c59842b48ac5c22ba953c5fe687732a91127bf)
Fertility Rates for All Women 1950-2000
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsos.umd.edu%2Fsocy%2Fvanneman%2Fsocy441%2Ftrends%2Ffert.gif&hash=81845e3ad24ccb8b91aba7c6ccb0e5398ca0542d)
Family Types 1960-1998
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bsos.umd.edu%2Fsocy%2Fvanneman%2Fsocy441%2Ftrends%2Fhhtype.jpg&hash=1cb1cba0be344c1b46cfef9d309d8ff6bbd80d3d)
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So let me get this right:
1. The property and violent crime rates track almost together. The violent crime rate peaked in 1990, and the property crime rate peaked in 1980, both coming back approximately to their 1968 level.
2. Divorce rates peaked in about 1980s, and has fallen slightly since, but has not dipped past the 1973 level of about 16%. In 1968 the divorce rate was about 12%. I couldn't find a track with crime, but I don't dig charts unless they're obviously screaming in my face, so don't take it as an argument against your point.
3. The marriage rate has been falling, and the amount of single-parent households has been rising since 1950, as well as the fertility rate for unmarried females.
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True. However, a failing family can fail even with both parents firmly in place. I watch this every day with my neighbors.
Oh, knock it off. No one ever said that two parents make a family perfect. The point was that family problems (including a lack of one parent) are a major contributor to other problems, such as crime, etc.
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I'll be printing that off as an object lesson for the next CCW class.
Evil POS needs to be fed through a wood chipper. :mad:
Exactly the lesson I was referring to, not sociozoology.
If yer keys and address are stolen, it may be worse than you think.
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Oh, knock it off. No one ever said that two parents make a family perfect. The point was that family problems (including a lack of one parent) are a major contributor to other problems, such as crime, etc.
What was said, again and again, was that the lack of one parent (and specifically the spread of 'broken' families) was one of the main causes of violent crime.
Families with one parent are not inherently broken
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There is no single cause for why some people become the way they do. Life is always complicated.
I spent 37 years in the insurance business. That put me into close proximity to thousands of families over the years. One thing that I noticed was that good solid families produced monsters sometimes. Miserable, disfunctional families produced some children who turned out to be good, productive people sometimes. Made me scratch my head more than once during those years.
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Micro, this is what I make of the first three graphs.
Divorce increasing since the late fifties, more than quadrupled by 1979, dropping slightly over the next 25 years, but still almost four times more common than in 1957.
Violent crime increasing since the early sixties, more than quadrupled by 1991, then slacking off until it was "only" two and half times more common than in 1960.
Property crimes increasing since the early sixties, until the number tripled in 1981 and again in 1991, then dropping to "only" twice the rate of 1960.
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Bottom line: Does young Mr. Myers know right from wrong? All the dysfunctional family stuff aside, does he know right from wrong?
If he is truly mentally disabled to the point where he cannot make that distinction, then yes, perhaps somewhere along the way the system has failed in that it did not remove him from society (or otherwise deal with the issue so that society was protected).
If he is not mentally disabled to the point where he cannot make that distinction, then spare me the "poor misguided youth" BS.
edited for spelling.
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I'm with Rocket Man
I really don't care why. Meyers has shown a pattern for increasing violence in his crimes, ending with the death of this woman. If he could have been rehabilitated, the time is past. Kill him, or lock him up, but he needs to be removed from society. Say whatever you want about single parent homes, theere's plenty of evidence to show that at this point, Meyers is very likely to do this again if they let him out. So don't.
As a side note, props goes to Mom, who took on a guy holding a shotgun with a kitchen knife. That took guts.
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Crime tracks more closely with poverty than household makeup. Household makeup has a large effect on income and thus tangentally on crime rates via poverty.
It's the poverty, not the "broken homes".
Married poor couples produce more criminals than married better off couples.
Single poor households produce more criminals than single better off households.
What tracks with both as a factor based almost solely on income is family history and local environment.
Grow up in a high crime area and you are statistically more likely to fall into crime.
Grow up with criminal relatives and cohort and the same is true.
Avoid both, even if in poverty, and you have a better chance.
Marital morality is secondary to actual environment, which is most directly related to income criminologically.