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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: roo_ster on February 09, 2009, 06:21:40 PM

Title: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: roo_ster on February 09, 2009, 06:21:40 PM: This jibes with the information I have gleaned from some long-term Walmart employees I have known.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/fly_on_the_wal_154007.htm?page=0

Some people, usually community activists, loath Wal-Mart. Others, like the family of four struggling to make ends meet, are in love with the chain. I, meanwhile, am in awe of it.

With more than 7,000 facilities worldwide, coordinating more than 2 million employees in its fanatical mission to maintain an inventory from more than 60,000 American suppliers, it has become a system containing more components than the Space Shuttle - yet it runs as reliably as a Timex watch.

Sheltered by rabble rousers who forced Wal-Mart's CEO to admit it "wasn't worth the effort" to try to open in Queens or anywhere else in the city, New Yorkers may not fully realize the unique, irreplaceable status of the World's Largest Retailer in rural and suburban America. Merchandise from Wal-Mart has become as ubiquitous as the water supply. Yet still the company is rebuked and reviled by anyone claiming a social conscience, and is lambasted by legislators as if its bad behavior places it somewhere between investment bankers and the Taliban.

Considering this is a company that is helping families ride out the economic downturn, which is providing jobs and stimulus while Congress bickers, which had sales growth of 2% this last quarter while other companies struggled, you have to wonder why. At least, I wondered why. And in that spirit of curiosity, I applied for an entry-level position at my local Wal-Mart.

*

Getting hired turned out to be a challenge. The personnel manager told me she had received more than 100 applications during that month alone, chasing just a handful of jobs. Thus the mystery deepened. If Wal-Mart was such an exploiter of the working poor, why were the working poor so eager to be exploited? And after they were hired, why did they seem so happy to be there? Anytime I shopped at the store, blue-clad Walmartians encouraged me to "Have a nice day" with the sincerity of the pope issuing a benediction.

I found my first clue in the application screening process. A diabolically ingenious quiz probed for my slightest hesitation or uncertainty regarding four big no-nos of retailing: theft, insubordination, poor timekeeping and substance abuse. (The quiz also tried to make sure that I wasn't accident-prone.) After I cleared that hurdle, I was called in for an interview. At the Flagstaff, Ariz., store where I applied, this took place in a vinyl-floored, gray-walled, windowless room, tucked away at the back of the store and crowded with people sitting on cheap folding chairs at cheap folding tables. Some of these people were talking on phones, some were doing job interviews, some were typing on computer terminals, and some seemed to be eating lunch.

I sat at a table that was covered in untrimmed fabric under a protective layer of sticky transparent vinyl, like a couch cover. I'd seen better-looking decor at firehouse bingo evenings. Was Wal-Mart going out of its way to emphasize its commitment to cost-cutting? I guessed that the utilitarian ethic was so deeply embedded, it was just taken for granted.

A friendly lady in her 50s, wearing the Wal-Mart Smile, sat opposite me and started asking questions from a printed form. Meanwhile another job applicant was going through his interview right behind me. Privacy, apparently, was as unaffordable here as tasteful decor.

"Are you easy to work with?" the lady asked. Since I couldn't imagine anyone being dumb enough to say "No," I concluded that the content of my answer must be irrelevant, and the way I answered must be the real issue. To judge from my interviewer's sunny demeanor, enthusiasm and sincerity were key. Fortunately, I had no problem reflecting her positivism, because I was becoming so fascinated with the Wal-Mart phenomenon, I really did want to work there.

I managed to satisfy her expectations, and then went through two additional interviews, followed by a drug test, before I received formal approval. It may have been one of the most intense hiring processes I've been through; hardly the schedule of a company that didn't care who it hired, or employees who didn't care about getting a job.

*

A week later, I found myself in an elite group of 10 successful applicants convening for two (paid) days of training in the same claustrophobic, windowless room. As we introduced ourselves, I discovered that more than half had already worked at other Wal-Marts. Having relocated to this area, they were eager for more of the same.

Why? Gradually the answer became clear. Imagine that you are young and relatively unskilled, lacking academic qualifications. Which would you prefer: standing behind the register at a local gas station, or doing the same thing in the most aggressively successful retailer in the world, where ruthless expansion is a way of life, creating a constant demand for people to fill low-level managerial positions? A future at Wal-Mart may sound a less-than-stellar prospect, but it's a whole lot better than no future at all.

In addition, despite its huge size, the corporation turned out to have an eerie resemblance to a Silicon Valley startup. There was the same gung-ho spirit, same lack of dogma, same lax dress code, same informality - and same interest in owning a piece of the company. All of my coworkers accepted the offer to buy Wal-Mart stock by setting aside $2 of every paycheck.

They were less enthused about health benefits, which offered minimal coverage during our first six months. The full corporate plan would kick in after that, but seemed to require significant employee contributions. Still, my fellow trainees assured me that health plans at other retail chains were even worse, and since the federal government had raised the limits for Medicaid eligibility, that was an option for people with children. (In the time since my experience at Wal-Mart, the company has improved its health plans significantly.) The assistant manager who served as our trainer was still in her 20s, highly motivated, friendly, smart, and perceptive. Naturally she overflowed with Wal-Mart positivism. In fact she projected the feel-good sincerity of a Baptist running a bake sale.

Still, she wasn't afraid to tackle the topic of termination. During our initial six months on the job, we would be on probation on a "three strikes" basis. One major screw-up would trigger a session of "verbal coaching." (Since positivism is endemic in Wal-Mart, words such as "discipline" are seldom used. The goal is self-improvement.) A second offense would trigger some written coaching. On the third offense, the employee would be sent home to think long and hard about what happened, and would have to come back the next day with a good argument for not being fired. In effect, Wal-Mart would say, "You seem to be a hopeless case. Now tell us why we're wrong." We were given only a handful of outright prohibitions. No swearing in the store, for instance - not even the word "damn," because some people might be offended. No funny-colored hair or blatant skin piercings, because some people might be offended. In fact almost all the rules devolved to the sacred principle of never, ever offending a customer - or "guest," in Wal-Mart terminology.

The reason was clearly articulated. On average, anyone walking into Wal-Mart is likely to spend more than $200,000 at the store during the rest of his life. Therefore, any clueless employee who alienates that customer will cost the store around a quarter-million dollars. "If we don't remember that our customers are in charge," our trainer warned us, "we turn into Kmart." She made that sound like devolving into some lesser being - a toad, maybe, or an ameba.

And so we came to the Wal-Mart Pledge. Solemnly, each of us raised one hand and intoned: "If a customer comes within 10 feet of me, I'm going to look him in the eye, smile and greet him." Having pledged ourselves, we encountered the aspect of Wal-Mart employment that impressed me most: The Telxon, pronounced "Telzon," a hand-held bar-code scanner with a wireless connection to the store's computer. When pointed at any product, the Telxon would reveal astonishing amounts of information: the quantity that should be on the shelf, the availability from the nearest warehouse, the retail price, and (most amazing of all) the markup.

All of us were given access to this information, because - in theory, at least - anyone in the store could order a couple extra pallets of anything, and could discount it heavily as a Volume Producing Item (known as a VPI), competing with other departments to rack up the most profitable sales each month. Floor clerks even had portable equipment to print their own price stickers. This was how Wal-Mart detected demand and responded to it: by distributing decision-making power to grass-roots level. It was as simple yet as radical as that.

We received an inspirational talk on this subject, from an employee who reacted after the store test-marketed tents that could protect cars for people who didn't have enough garage space. They sold out quickly, and several customers came in asking for more. Clearly this was a singular, exceptional case of word-of-mouth, so he ordered literally a truckload of tent-garages, "Which I shouldn't have done really without asking someone," he said with a shrug, "because I hadn't been working at the store for long." But the item was a huge success. His VPI was the biggest in store history - and that kind of thing doesn't go unnoticed in Arkansas.

He was invited to corporate HQ as a guest at a management conference. "It was totally different from what I expected," he told us. "I thought it would be these fatcats talking about money, but no one even mentioned money. All they cared about was finding new ways to satisfy customers. I met everyone including the chairman of the company."

*

After my two days of instruction I returned for the first real day of work. Inevitably, it was anticlimactic. The essence of life on the sales floor should be obvious to anyone: It is extremely boring.

I had chosen the pet department, which sells goldfish, cat food, dog food and accessories. As I patrolled the aisles, repositioning misplaced items and filling gaps in the shelves, I realized that Wal-Mart "guests" really are like guests. They are visitors who move things around and create a mess before they go home. Cleaning up after them was not very different from doing housework.

My amiable, laid-back department supervisor had been doing this kind of thing for 15 years. When I asked him why, he took a moment to process the question. He had to think back to other employers he'd worked for in the distant past. None of them, he said, had treated him so well.

What exactly did he mean by that?

His answer lay in the structure of the store. "It's deceptive, because Wal-Mart isn't divided into separate stores like a mall," he said. "But really, that's how it works. Each section is separate. This is - my pet store! No one comes here and tells me how to run it. I could go for weeks without a supervisor asking any questions." Here was the unseen, unreported side of the corporate behemoth. Big as it was, it was smart enough to give employees a feeling of autonomy.

During my few subsequent days as a Walmartian, everyone at every level was friendly and decent toward me. No one had the slightest clue that I might write about my experiences; no one even knew that I had a former career as a journalist. Still, they behaved like poster children for enlightened capitalism.

My supervisor reminded me unfailingly to take my mandatory two (paid) quarter-hour breaks during each eight hours of working time. I was cautioned never to abbreviate my lunch hour. Most of all I was encouraged to educate myself using instructional videos on computer terminals at the back of the store.

These videos served Wal-Mart's self-interest by teaching skills ranging from customer service to the art of lifting heavy boxes without hurting your back. I was paid to view them, and was rewarded with an increased hourly rate when I finished the course.

My starting wage was so low (around $7 per hour), a modest increment still didn't leave me with enough to live on comfortably, but when I looked at the alternatives, many of them were worse. Coworkers assured me that the nearest Target paid its hourly full-timers less than Wal-Mart, while fast-food franchises were at the bottom of everyone's list.

I found myself reaching an inescapable conclusion. Low wages are not a Wal-Mart problem. They are an industry-wide problem, afflicting all unskilled entry-level jobs, and the reason should be obvious.

In our free-enterprise system, employees are valued largely in terms of what they can do. This is why teenagers fresh out of high school often go to vocational training institutes to become auto mechanics or electricians. They understand a basic principle that seems to elude social commentators, politicians and union organizers. If you want better pay, you need to learn skills that are in demand.

The blunt tools of legislation or union power can force a corporation to pay higher wages, but if employees don't create an equal amount of additional value, there's no net gain. All other factors remaining equal, the store will have to charge higher prices for its merchandise, and its competitive position will suffer.

This is Economics 101, but no one wants to believe it, because it tells us that a legislative or unionized quick-fix is not going to work in the long term. If you want people to be wealthier, they have to create additional wealth.

To my mind, the real scandal is not that a large corporation doesn't pay people more. The scandal is that so many people have so little economic value. Despite (or because of) a free public school system, millions of teenagers enter the work force without marketable skills. So why would anyone expect them to be well paid?

In fact, the deal at Wal-Mart is better than at many other employers. The company states that its regular full-time hourly associates in the US average $10.86 per hour, while the mean hourly wage for retail sales associates in department stores generally is $8.67. The federal minimum wage is $6.55 per hour. Also every Wal-Mart employee gets a 10% store discount, while an additional 4% of wages go into profit-sharing and 401(k) plans.

*

As for the horror stories: Let's take a couple of random examples. Unpaid overtime? Maybe it happened at some stores in the past, but an instructional video warned me that if anyone in management ever encouraged such a heinous transgression, I should report him to his superiors immediately. Illegal aliens? That particular news story really referred to a cleaning company retained by Wal-Mart. The cleaning company hired the illegals.

You have to wonder, then, why the store has such a terrible reputation, and I have to tell you that so far as I can determine, trade unions have done most of the mudslinging. Web sites that serve as a source for negative stories are often affiliated with unions. Walmartwatch.com, for instance, is partnered with the Service Employees International Union; Wakeupwalmart.com is entirely owned by United Food and Commercial Workers International Union. For years, now, they've campaigned against Wal-Mart, for reasons that may have more to do with money than compassion for the working poor. If more than one million Wal-Mart employees in the United States could be induced to join a union, by my calculation they'd be compelled to pay more than half-billion dollars each year in dues.

Anti-growth activists are the other primary source of anti-Wal-Mart sentiment. In the town where I worked, I was told that activists even opposed a new Barnes & Noble because it was "too big." If they're offended by a large bookstore, you can imagine how they feel about a discount retailer.

The argument, of course, is that smaller enterprises cannot compete. My outlook on this is hardcore: I think that many of the "mom-and-pop" stores so beloved by activists don't deserve to remain in business.

When I first ventured from New York City to the American heartland, I did my best to patronize quaint little places on Main Street and quickly discovered the penalties for doing so. At a small appliance store, I wasn't allowed to buy a microwave oven on display. I had to place an order and wait a couple of weeks for delivery. At a stationery store where I tried to buy a file cabinet, I found the same problem. Think back, if you are old enough to do so, and you may recall that this is how small-town retailing used to function in the 1960s.

As a customer, I don't see why I should protect a business from the harsh realities of commerce if it can't maintain a good inventory at a competitive price. And as an employee, I see no advantage in working at a small place where I am subject to the quixotic moods of a sole proprietor, and can never appeal to his superior, because there isn't one.

By the same logic, I see no reason for legislators to protect Safeway supermarkets with ploys such as zoning restrictions, which just happen to allow a supermarket-sized building while outlawing a Wal-Mart SuperCenter that's a few thousand square feet bigger.

Based on my experience (admittedly, only at one location) I reached a conclusion which is utterly opposed to almost everything ever written about Wal-Mart. I came to regard it as one of the all-time enlightened American employers, right up there with IBM in the 1960s. Wal-Mart is not the enemy. It's the best friend we could ask for.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 09, 2009, 06:34:54 PM: Interesting read, thanks.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 06:47:34 PM: I get pounded when I point things out that are stated so well in this article. The wife's been with them for about 18 years now. She makes almost as much as I do, and I have a degree.

The 10% off ammo and long guns ain't bad, either.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:02:19 PM: Quote
Anytime I shopped at the store, blue-clad Walmartians encouraged me to "Have a nice day" with the sincerity of the pope issuing a benediction.

I kinda lost interest after this. I don't hate Walmart, but this sort of obviously hyperbolic claim is a clue that the article is more entertainment than information.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: HankB on February 09, 2009, 07:23:45 PM: Some locals in & around the Austin, TX area, have a clear, knee-jerk hatred for WalMart; this came out when WalMart announced plans to build a new store on the site of a dying, nearly-vacant, mall.

Much hilarity ensued. ;/

As for myself . . . OK, I sometimes shop WalMart. Ammo . . . yes. Some food - bread, canned goods and such - yes. But I'm not a real big fan, since I'm old enough to remember when WalMart advertising emphasized the "Made in USA" labels on much of their merchandise.

No more . . . too much stuff from Red China.

(BTW, I found "Sam's Choice" apple juice is a product of USA - an exception, to be sure. Take a close look at Mott's or TreeTop apple juice bottles next time you go shopping.)
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 07:24:01 PM: Quote from: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:02:19 PM
I kinda lost interest after this. I don't hate Walmart, but this sort of obviously hyperbolic claim is a clue that the article is more entertainment than information.

Around here we get the "head nod", or asked if we need anything. The backwoods of Kentucky being what it is, it's more likely to be "Kin ah hep ye?" I think it depends on the area you're in. I seldom get ignored like I do in Target or K-Mart, though.

I guess if they had a store in New York, it would be "Pi$$ off!" Kind of like Ed Debevic's, if you've been to one.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 07:27:13 PM: A lot of the "Made in America" stuff left with Sam. That and the problem of finding things actually MADE here anymore. Look around, it ain't easy to find much of anything made in the U.S.A. anymore. I know I've tried and it's the same everywhere. Even the stuff that used to be made here isn't anymore.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:34:23 PM: It's not about Wal-mart; stating categorically that any low level retail store is largely staffed by really friendly, constantly smiling people fails the laugh test.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 09, 2009, 07:35:58 PM: walmart just cleared 26 acres near here for an uber walmart. i can get to it without hitting a traffic light. looking forward to it. walmart treated the kid brother good and the insurance wasn't bad
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 07:38:59 PM: Quote from: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:34:23 PM
It's not about Wal-mart; stating categorically that any low level retail store is largely staffed by really friendly, constantly smiling people fails the laugh test.

They're faking it, of course. Much like I do when conversing with a known butthead customer that I detest with a passion. Happens at least once a week, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody could possibly put up with the daily anal-retentive representatives from the general public on a daily basis and be happy about it.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:44:03 PM: Quote from: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 07:38:59 PM
They're faking it, of course. Much like I do when conversing with a known butthead customer that I detest with a passion. Happens at least once a week, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody could possibly put up with the daily anal-retentive representatives from the general public on a daily basis and be happy about it.

I know they would be faking it; I'm saying the low level retail stores I've been to the workers don't even pretend.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 07:52:04 PM: Quote from: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:44:03 PM
I know they would be faking it; I'm saying the low level retail stores I've been to the workers don't even pretend.

The only place I see the attempt is Wally-World and the smaller places. I imagine in a lot of areas you would see it even less. The people at K-Mart here run the other way if you even look like you might ask them something. Usually only one lane open, too. There isn't ever a problem finding a good parking place though. I wonder why?

Oddly enough, the rudest people I've ever seen working at a retail store were in Chicago (Magnificent mile). Saks and MAcy's
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: grislyatoms on February 09, 2009, 08:55:34 PM: I won't go in a Walmart standard or Super store. There's just too many damned people.

Walmart Neighborhood Market, on the other hand, I frequent often.

I can get everything there I can get at the other grocers, at 30-50% less. No joke. Meat prices are too high there, though. If I go right after I drop kiddo off at school, it's a ghost town.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: RevDisk on February 09, 2009, 09:25:14 PM: 'bout what I expected. Knew folks that are my age that bounce around the unskilled labor market. Walmart isn't that bad, all and all.

I prefer Target, but that's because I have a store 2 minutes away. Only compliant I have about Walmart is the meat. I wouldn't buy it, and I don't recommend others to do so. If I go to a walmart, I'll buy canned name brand stuff or whatnot. Produce and meats I prefer to buy from the Amish.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 09, 2009, 09:32:05 PM: Quote from: Balog on February 09, 2009, 07:02:19 PM
I kinda lost interest after this. I don't hate Walmart, but this sort of obviously hyperbolic claim is a clue that the article is more entertainment than information.
You might try re3ading the article before concluding it's nothing but hyperbole.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: roo_ster on February 09, 2009, 09:37:49 PM: Quote from: RevDisk on February 09, 2009, 09:25:14 PM
Produce and meats I prefer to buy from the Amish.

Amish are mighty thin on the ground in DFW.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Manedwolf on February 09, 2009, 09:49:56 PM: I still prefer Target just for the floor layout skills, though.

Yes, they both sell a lot of the same Chinese junk. I know.

But Target's store design manages to make it quieter and feel more upscale even with the same amount of people in the store. The lights are less harsh, the aisles seem to absorb sound instead of magnifying it, and there isn't the "storefront flea market" feel inherent in so many Wal-Marts.

Also, Target is still way better at opening enough cashier lines than Wal-Mart. I'm not sure what it is about the company, but they just aren't very good especially at express lines. Costco vs. Sam's Club is the exact same. In one, you're only in line briefly even if they look long, in the other, it feels like you're standing there for hours.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: K Frame on February 09, 2009, 09:51:27 PM: Interesting article.

The town where my parents grew up, and where Mom now lives, was hit VERY hard by the economic issues of the 1970s.

I worked there in the late 1980s, and the only thing really keeping that town going was the fact that it was within driving distance of State College, PA, and Harrisburg, PA. Most people earned their incomes, and did the lion's share of their shopping, outside of the area.

K Mart closed, and Jamesway (think K Mart, but several levels UNDER K Mart) also shut down. Essentially, the town had virtually nothing. Few jobs, few shopping opportunities other than small local shops.

Then WalMart came in. Lots of crying about how bad it would be by a very FEW people. Most people were looking forward to it. Wal Mart helped set off something of a renaissance in the community.

When Wal Mart came in, K Mart took one look and said "WE HAVE TO GET BACK THERE!" Several other smaller retailers also opened. More than 1,000 jobs were added to the community.

Then, about 3 years ago, Lowes came in and there was another flurry of corporate investment in the area.

Despite all the people saying that Wal Mart would kill the downtown shopping district, that's not been the case. Yes, a few of the smaller shops went out of business. Oddly enough, in many cases, you'd see the owners of those shops employed as department managers at Wal Mart. Wal Mart came in and offered them jobs because they had years of experience in running stores.

Bossert's Hardware Store is still there even though Lowe's, K Mart, and Wal Mart compete with it. So is Glick's shoes. Giant and Weis supermarkets are still doing well even though the Wal Mart is a super food center, too.

Virtually none of what the doomsayers were predicting for Wal Mart came true in the case of Lewistown. The area is a LOT healthier for them having come in.

"Produce and meats I prefer to buy from the Amish."

Oddly enough, Lewistown is the heart of TRUE Pennsylvania Amish Country, not that over hyped, over exposed, and over exploited mess in Lancaster.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Manedwolf on February 09, 2009, 10:06:55 PM: Lancaster seems to have a lot of faux Amish stuff, though. It reminded me of old ads where a town had "Indian" stuff for tourists, while the actual Native Americans were a distance away and mostly just wanted to be left alone, they'd just sell them pots and blankets for the shops.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: RevDisk on February 09, 2009, 11:36:22 PM: Quote from: jfruser on February 09, 2009, 09:37:49 PM
Amish are mighty thin on the ground in DFW.

So import a bunch. =D Seriously, produce picked that day or meat slaughtered a couple hours ago? You just can't explain that kind of freshness to folks that only shop at regular supermarkets. I'm pretty sure DFW has some farmers markets within a couple hours drive. Make it a day trip some weekend.

Anyways, I have to agree with Manedwolf. I like Target. The layout of the store is nice and it is a more pleasant shopping experience. It also helps that I'm not a fan of large groups of people and the design tends to minimize the crowded feeling.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: jackdanson on February 09, 2009, 11:49:05 PM: Quote
Oddly enough, the rudest people I've ever seen working at a retail store were in Chicago (Magnificent mile). Saks and MAcy's

Don't know what's surprising about that.. went there on my honeymoon.. a city full of jerks. (no offense to anyone here) Even the waiters and waitresses were rude. The way they acted would get your head stomped in where I live.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Strings on February 10, 2009, 12:06:48 AM: OK... I have some personal issues with the general manager of the local store. But overall, Sprawlmart has one thing going for it over all other stores up this way:

I can get a wild hair at any time of the night, and go pick something up.

2300 hrs: "Oh damn... forgot that Spoon needs a new headlight!" - got it
0035 hrs: "Damn... router died" - got it
0345 hrs: "I'm suddenly awake and feel the urge for fresh fruit" - got it

There ARE no other stores in the area that can compete with that...
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Nitrogen on February 10, 2009, 12:22:58 AM: My wife is a special education teacher and when I read this to her, she pretty much gets it.

"If you expect a lot, you'll usually get it"
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: K Frame on February 10, 2009, 01:30:24 AM: Ditto the rude people at Macy's.

Some years ago a friend and his wife were at Macy's (IIRC) in the DC Metro area. Two of the sales clerks started talking smack about his wife -- in Senegalese French.

They had no clue that my friend has a pretty good grasp of Moroccan French. Until he lit into them. In French.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Antibubba on February 10, 2009, 02:57:43 AM: Quote
i can get to it without hitting a traffic light. looking forward to it.

Sure, now. 4 months later it'll take you 15 minutes to travel that last mile. I've seen it happen.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: BryanP on February 10, 2009, 06:43:31 AM: Interesting read. A bit over the top with "ra ra, aren't they great", but still, a good read.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 10, 2009, 07:11:49 AM: Quote from: Antibubba on February 10, 2009, 02:57:43 AM
Sure, now. 4 months later it'll take you 15 minutes to travel that last mile. I've seen it happen.

you trying to say it'll bring that much development in 4 months? our economy could use it
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: 41magsnub on February 10, 2009, 11:11:27 AM: I don't have a problem with Wallmart. They provide a lot of jobs to folks that IMHO are pretty much otherwise unemployable due to not having marketable skills.

I personally dislike shopping there as my faith in humanity is somewhat shaken each time by a large number of the shoppers.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Manedwolf on February 10, 2009, 11:16:17 AM: Quote from: 41magsnub on February 10, 2009, 11:11:27 AM
I personally dislike shopping there as my faith in humanity is somewhat shaken each time by a large number of the shoppers.

Yes.

For goodness sake, I don't care how little money you have, especially if you're covered in bling, you can make your towed-along assemblage of kids look better than third-world refugees with filthy faces.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Marnoot on February 10, 2009, 11:45:28 AM: Quote from: Teknoid on February 09, 2009, 07:38:59 PM
Happens at least once a week, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee34%2Fmarnoot%2F001_you-gotta-do-what-ugd.jpg&hash=507a25ad9f88e42492fefb4fb478a30e53178635)
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: makattak on February 10, 2009, 11:49:02 AM: I have no problems with Walmart.

In fact, as an economist, I love Walmart: the force of competition unleashed.

However, this is the most salient part of the article:

Quote
I found myself reaching an inescapable conclusion. Low wages are not a Wal-Mart problem. They are an industry-wide problem, afflicting all unskilled entry-level jobs, and the reason should be obvious.

In our free-enterprise system, employees are valued largely in terms of what they can do. This is why teenagers fresh out of high school often go to vocational training institutes to become auto mechanics or electricians. They understand a basic principle that seems to elude social commentators, politicians and union organizers. If you want better pay, you need to learn skills that are in demand.

The blunt tools of legislation or union power can force a corporation to pay higher wages, but if employees don't create an equal amount of additional value, there's no net gain. All other factors remaining equal, the store will have to charge higher prices for its merchandise, and its competitive position will suffer.

This is Economics 101, but no one wants to believe it, because it tells us that a legislative or unionized quick-fix is not going to work in the long term. If you want people to be wealthier, they have to create additional wealth.

To my mind, the real scandal is not that a large corporation doesn't pay people more. The scandal is that so many people have so little economic value. Despite (or because of) a free public school system, millions of teenagers enter the work force without marketable skills. So why would anyone expect them to be well paid?

Some people need to be beaten over the head with this until they understand it.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Scout26 on February 10, 2009, 11:54:37 AM: Quote from: makattak on February 10, 2009, 11:49:02 AM
I have no problems with Walmart.

In fact, as an economist, I love Walmart: the force of competition unleashed.

However, this is the most salient part of the article:

Quote
I found myself reaching an inescapable conclusion. Low wages are not a Wal-Mart problem. They are an industry-wide problem, afflicting all unskilled entry-level jobs, and the reason should be obvious.

In our free-enterprise system, employees are valued largely in terms of what they can do. This is why teenagers fresh out of high school often go to vocational training institutes to become auto mechanics or electricians. They understand a basic principle that seems to elude social commentators, politicians and union organizers. If you want better pay, you need to learn skills that are in demand.

The blunt tools of legislation or union power can force a corporation to pay higher wages, but if employees don't create an equal amount of additional value, there's no net gain. All other factors remaining equal, the store will have to charge higher prices for its merchandise, and its competitive position will suffer.

This is Economics 101, but no one wants to believe it, because it tells us that a legislative or unionized quick-fix is not going to work in the long term. If you want people to be wealthier, they have to create additional wealth.

To my mind, the real scandal is not that a large corporation doesn't pay people more. The scandal is that so many people have so little economic value. Despite (or because of) a free public school system.

Some people need to be beaten over the head with this until they understand it.

Perxactly, you won't make Wall St. CEO wages if you drop out of hih skrwel.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Racehorse on February 10, 2009, 12:00:58 PM: Quote from: Manedwolf on February 09, 2009, 09:49:56 PM
Also, Target is still way better at opening enough cashier lines than Wal-Mart. I'm not sure what it is about the company, but they just aren't very good especially at express lines. Costco vs. Sam's Club is the exact same. In one, you're only in line briefly even if they look long, in the other, it feels like you're standing there for hours.

I think the issue here is mainly one of training. The cashiers at Walmart are not trained very well. Sometimes I have to tell them how to work their registers. They just don't know what they're doing. At Target and Costco, the lines are usually just as long or longer, in my experience, but the cashiers at least know enough to ring up a sale without having to call a manager, so the lines move a lot faster. At Walmart any variation from the norm, even an unfamiliar vegetable, can result in a 5-10 minute wait.

Maybe turnover is higher at Walmart, which exacerbates the training issue. I don't know. But there's definitely a difference.

That said, I still go to Walmart, primarily because it's cheaper and it's closer to my house. I can deal with the annoyances if it saves me some money.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: coppertales on February 10, 2009, 12:19:18 PM: Walmart is like any other store to me. I go there for specific items that I know are a little cheaper. I probably would shop there more if they would fix their checkout problem. It seems the checkers in the express lanes cannot count as there are usually full carts checking out there. In their defense, most of the idiots with the full carts are, most likely, illegals, who can't read english so they don't know any better. There is a Walmart in the town I am going to retire to so I may get a job as a greeter or something. I can't sit on the porch drinking martinis every day.....chris3
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: 41magsnub on February 10, 2009, 12:48:22 PM: Quote from: coppertales on February 10, 2009, 12:19:18 PM
Walmart is like any other store to me. I go there for specific items that I know are a little cheaper. I probably would shop there more if they would fix their checkout problem. It seems the checkers in the express lanes cannot count as there are usually full carts checking out there. In their defense, most of the idiots with the full carts are, most likely, illegals, who can't read english so they don't know any better. There is a Walmart in the town I am going to retire to so I may get a job as a greeter or something. I can't sit on the porch drinking martinis every day.....chris3

Coppertales future picture:

Warning... mildly NSFW or lunch
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=103917
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Gewehr98 on February 10, 2009, 01:16:37 PM: WalMart provides a service few others can, at prices few others can.

YMMV, of course, but the cashiers and sales associates at my local Wally World are courteous and professional. They run the gamut from kids out of high school to retirees like myself.

I shop there frequently, and am under no illusions that what I'm buying didn't come from China.

Fact is, the computers that folks like to bash Chinese goods on via forums like APS have a plethora of Chinese parts inside.

It would do good to remember that the next time you go, "China? Icky-poo!" It makes you look, well...

In the meantime, Walmart's stock is climbing, while nearly everything else, save for McDonald's, is dropping as the economy tanks.

I'm not too sure about this, either:

Quote
Perxactly, you won't make Wall St. CEO wages if you drop out of hih skrwel.

I'd wager there aren't going to be as many exorbitant Wall St. CEO wages and golden parachutes now that the cat is out of the bag.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: makattak on February 10, 2009, 01:26:43 PM: Quote from: Gewehr98 on February 10, 2009, 01:16:37 PM

In the meantime, Walmart's stock is climbing, while nearly everything else, save for McDonald's, is dropping as the economy tanks.

Are there two more quintessentially modern American companies than Wal-Mart and McDonald's?

Perhaps the other companies should look at their business model: give the people what they want but, most importantly, give it to them cheap. (This was Rockefeller's model as well.)

Also note- I dislike most McDonald's food, but I recognize its value. No matter where I go, I know I can go to a McDonald's and get some safe sustenance. They also recognize market trends and react (see McDonald's response to the "gourmet coffee" trend).

Add to it that McDonald's is different when you go to other nations: they change to satisfy the demand there (a McDonald's in Japan would be familiar to Americans, but still have many different attributes- not to mention many different foods).
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Werewolf on February 10, 2009, 01:59:30 PM: Walmart! You just plain can't argue with SUCCESS!

Walmart is the 800Lb gorrila that most retailers can only dream about becoming. It is the largest revenue generating retailer in the world with revenues that exceed 2/3 of the national GDP's on the planet.

That said:

Walmart! The land of temptation and evil!

:lol: =D :lol:

My wife cannot go there without spending twice what she planned. I used to get on her about that until I went one day with plans to just pickup an air conditioning filter. Walked out of there having spent $180 on this that and the other thing.

Evil!
EEEVILLLLL! I say! =D
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Uncle Bubba on February 10, 2009, 02:00:06 PM: Quote from: makattak on February 10, 2009, 01:26:43 PM

Add to it that McDonald's is different when you go to other nations: they change to satisfy the demand there...

When I was sent to West Germany to labor for Uncle's Army in '81 it was a good but strange feeling to be able to go into the McDonald's in Bamberg and get a burger and a beer. Definitely different for this country boy, whose home county'd been dry until his senior year of high school.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Balog on February 10, 2009, 02:08:44 PM: Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 09, 2009, 09:32:05 PM
You might try re3ading the article before concluding it's nothing but hyperbole.

I read the article, and it had some good points. But it's obviously a highly biased and inaccurate portrayal. I felt the same way towards it as I do to articles claiming all military personnel are glorious heroes. Doesn't mean I hate vets, but we're just people like anyone else; some good, some bad. Saying "Walmart employees are all super friendly and competent and cheerful" is foolish because you're making a huge generalization about a LOT of people.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: roo_ster on February 10, 2009, 02:17:06 PM: Quote from: Balog on February 10, 2009, 02:08:44 PM
...Saying "Walmart employees are all super friendly and competent and cheerful" is foolish because you're making a huge generalization about a LOT of people.

Well, if he said that, you would be correct in your conclusion. Thing is, he wrote something a bit different:
Quote
During my few subsequent days as a Walmartian, everyone at every level was friendly and decent toward me.

That dependent clause at the beginning of the sentence modifies the clause at the end.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Gewehr98 on February 10, 2009, 02:18:17 PM: I haven't done McDonald's in over 15 years, after a particularly nasty bout of food poisoning that would probably make Jack in the Box diners envious.

Doesn't mean they're not successful, just that I have no desire to eat there anymore.

As for varying menu items at different regional McDonald's franchises, I discovered quite by accident that the McDonald's in Songtan, Korea puts a fried egg on their Big Macs.

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmauser98.com%2F3141608.jpg&hash=53877bacab8fb556009f2b088f0a556ec91a7675)
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 10, 2009, 02:20:08 PM: Quote from: Balog on February 10, 2009, 02:08:44 PM
I read the article, and it had some good points. But it's obviously a highly biased and inaccurate portrayal. I felt the same way towards it as I do to articles claiming all military personnel are glorious heroes. Doesn't mean I hate vets, but we're just people like anyone else; some good, some bad. Saying "Walmart employees are all super friendly and competent and cheerful" is foolish because you're making a huge generalization about a LOT of people.
Then perhaps I misread the article. To me it sounded like he was describing his experience with Walmart, and the specif people and policies and events he saw at that particular store. He makes inferences about what he saw and what it might mean.

His writing style is a bit lacking, but it's an interesting and informative read nonetheless.
Title: deleted
Post by: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 02:20:16 PM: .
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: makattak on February 10, 2009, 02:24:28 PM: Quote from: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 02:20:16 PM
Wal-Mart has it's strengths, as well as it's flaws.

It's cost control, vendor, inventory, and distribution capabilities, are second to none.

However, a number of instances of corporate malfeasance have been legitimately documented and reported in respectable media sources.
Lawful, but unethical matters of closing stores that the employees chose to unionize, obtaining products from sweat shops overseas, or change locations to avoid paying local property taxes, after tax abatements expire, is bad enough; but clearly unlawful matters of wage and position discrimination cases based upon gender, unpaid employee hours for work performed under the guise of saving overtime, stores changing locations to avoid paying local property taxes, clearly show that the corruption is not isolated and in most cases, directed from corporate executive management.

Profit is king at Wal-Mart. If it's not careful, legislation under this country's current mood to penalize irresponsible corporate entities, will worsen the problem for not only the corporation and employees, but the consumer as well.

Wow, nearly your entire list of infractions has to do with wise choices AVOIDING taxes...

Soooo... a good business is the one that looks for as many taxes as it can pay?

I suppose that's "patriotic"?
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 10, 2009, 02:26:43 PM: Quote from: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 02:20:16 PM
Lawful, but unethical matters of closing stores that the employees chose to unionize, obtaining products from sweat shops overseas, or change locations to avoid paying local property taxes, after tax abatements expire, is bad enough; but clearly unlawful matters of wage and position discrimination cases based upon gender, unpaid employee hours for work performed under the guise of saving overtime, stores changing locations to avoid paying local property taxes, clearly show that the corruption is not isolated and in most cases, directed from corporate executive management.

I'm not sure how unethical a lot of that is. Discrimination and withholding earned wages ain't cool, but stuff like trying to avoid unions or taxes sounds reasonable and prudent to me. I want the companies I invest in to do that kind of thing. I want the stores I shop in to keep their costs down and sell me the goods I want cheaper.

And what's so gawdawful about profit? I like profit, personally. I have a certain respect for others that know how to achieve it reliably and consistently.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Manedwolf on February 10, 2009, 02:38:15 PM: Quote from: makattak on February 10, 2009, 01:26:43 PM
Also note- I dislike most McDonald's food, but I recognize its value. No matter where I go, I know I can go to a McDonald's and get some safe sustenance.

Heh. Check your local health department reports. You might be a bit surprised.

I think the worst violation to date was the McDonalds at the Field Museum in Chicago. The fail report included employees changing the expiration dates on milk, and "raw sewage in the food preparation area".
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Stetson on February 10, 2009, 02:46:02 PM: Quote from: jfruser on February 09, 2009, 09:37:49 PM
Amish are mighty thin on the ground in DFW.

Not germaine to the topic but the farmers market downtown is best for fresh fruits and vegetables. Will be exploring butchter shops this next weekend.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: makattak on February 10, 2009, 02:47:25 PM: Quote from: Manedwolf on February 10, 2009, 02:38:15 PM
Heh. Check your local health department reports. You might be a bit surprised.

I think the worst violation to date was the McDonalds at the Field Museum in Chicago. The fail report included employees changing the expiration dates on milk, and "raw sewage in the food preparation area".

Alright, perhaps I should have said: I know I have a better chance of safe food than some other random restuarant. I'm aware there are always exceptions. Even to the preceeding statement.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 10, 2009, 02:53:14 PM: raw sewage in food areas means a backed up sink
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Manedwolf on February 10, 2009, 02:56:33 PM: Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 10, 2009, 02:53:14 PM
raw sewage in food areas means a backed up sink

Not when they order an immediate closure, it doesn't. Backed up floor drain that has been ignored, possibly.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 10, 2009, 03:00:17 PM: There was a problem in my neighborhood a few years ago with backed up sewer lines. Occasionally, and seemingly at random, peoples' basements would just fill up with raw sewage.

A nasty situation, for sure. Ultimately it was the fault of the utility provider and there was nothing the homeowners could have done about it. Still sucks, though.

Anyway, I could foresee the same sort of thing happening in a business.
Title: deleted
Post by: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 03:05:46 PM: .
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Firethorn on February 10, 2009, 03:06:35 PM: Quote from: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 02:20:16 PM
Lawful, but unethical matters of closing stores that the employees chose to unionize,

And allowing Unionization has helped Industry, and by extension the workers, how much? How much of the big three's current woes are due to the unions? How many steel factories ended up closing down because of them?

Quote
obtaining products from sweat shops overseas,

Many of those 'sweat shops' overseas aren't so sweat shoppish compared to the OTHER alternatives the local workers have.

Quote
or change locations to avoid paying local property taxes, after tax abatements expire, is bad enough;

Choosing store location on total expenses and profit potentials is bad how? And bad enough to list twice?

Quote
but clearly unlawful matters of wage and position discrimination cases based upon gender, unpaid employee hours for work performed under the guise of saving overtime, stores changing locations to avoid paying local property taxes, clearly show that the corruption is not isolated and in most cases, directed from corporate executive management.

Any proof discrimination happens at more than store level? Not paying employees for hours worked? I've seen that for small businesses, large ones, hospitals, hotels, resorts, restaurants like McD's and BKs.

I believe Walmart ended up winning one higher than store level case brought, and adjusting for things like hours worked, seniority, and such they ended up equal.

To put it another way: If they could really get away with paying women less, wouldn't they be trying to hire as many as possible? Save themselves the payroll?
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Brad Johnson on February 10, 2009, 03:06:55 PM: Quote
Lawful, ... matters of closing stores that the employees chose to unionize, obtaining products from sweat shops overseas, or change locations to avoid paying local property taxes, after tax abatements expire, is bad enough; but clearly unlawful matters of wage and position discrimination cases based upon gender, unpaid employee hours for work performed under the guise of saving overtime, stores changing locations to avoid paying local property taxes, clearly show that the corruption is not isolated and in most cases,

Corruption? Hardly. Successful business model? Definitely.

They make no bones about the fact that they are trying to minimize expenses in order to give consumers the lowest prices on commonly available goods. Like it or not, they are darn good at what they do. Don't like them? Don't shop there. Go ahead and pay more for the same thing somewhere else. But don't demonize WalMart for be THE example of what the American Dream and true competitive capitalism can accomplish.

Brad
Title: deleted
Post by: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 03:11:04 PM: .
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Brad Johnson on February 10, 2009, 03:14:26 PM: Quote from: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 03:11:04 PM
I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices. That fact is not demonizing a business, but is characteristic of how individuals place profit over the law, not to mention placing it over people.

Making generalized assertions without providing examples is nothing but inflammatory rhetoric. Try again.

Brad
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: lupinus on February 10, 2009, 03:19:59 PM: Quote
I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices.
Please do educate us here.

As much as I dislike walmart at times, I always find myself warming right back up to them.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: K Frame on February 10, 2009, 03:40:19 PM: OK, Don't Care, you've levied this accusation:

"I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices."

Start backing it up.

Give specific examples that demonstrate how Wal Mart violates fair employment practices.

Otherwise, your claim is nothing more than useless hyperbole of the kind bandied about by the worst of the 'OH NOES!' crowd.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 10, 2009, 03:45:19 PM: Quote from: Manedwolf on February 10, 2009, 02:56:33 PM
Not when they order an immediate closure, it doesn't. Backed up floor drain that has been ignored, possibly.

sorry to disappoint you but a stopped up drain in a food prep area will, get you closed imediately or at least between 1974 and 2002 it would thats the time i was in that biz. certified from 81 to now. if they walk in and you have dirty water backing up on the floor or into a food sink you are closed
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: gunsmith on February 10, 2009, 05:39:40 PM: I worked at K Mart once, they were the most awful people to work for.
Morale was so low that no employee would bat an eye if "customers" walked out without paying.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Firethorn on February 10, 2009, 09:39:54 PM: Some thoughts reading over the remarks:

1. Walmart wages and healthcare plans are indeed competitive - They may not be paying professional wages, but floor staff isn't professional. Like Ford back in the day, they actually tend to pay a premium to get premium entry-level workers. But they're still entry-level.
2. A populated store means a profitable store, efficient store
3. Different areas, different stores, different results
4. They can't be the closest to everyone.

Personally, our local Walmart never has enough registers open for my taste, - and I think that the checkouts are inappropriate for grocery shopping - too long is spent per item.

Quote
To my mind, the real scandal is not that a large corporation doesn't pay people more. The scandal is that so many people have so little economic value. Despite (or because of) a free public school system, millions of teenagers enter the work force without marketable skills. So why would anyone expect them to be well paid?

Quoted yet again, for a huge amount of sense.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Lee on February 10, 2009, 10:09:07 PM: The true secret of Walmart is that it shares it's success with the employees that make it successful. There are many millionaires around today that spent their entire careers at Walmart. I use to call on them many years ago, as well as K-Mart, Sears and a bunch of chains that no longer exist. I even met Sam and Bud Walton.
Their concept was simple - treat the customer right, make your employees feel involved, and beat the competition on service and price. They always invested in the best technology available and were forward looking. The leadership was/is tireless and believes they are always behind. Ego-maniacs rarely last very long in Walmart Management. Ego maniacs get complacent.
I do think that Walmart has suffered in Urban areas. The quality of those employees (or commitment of those employees) just isn't anything like it is in more rural areas.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Uncle Bubba on February 10, 2009, 10:14:22 PM: Quote from: Don't care on February 10, 2009, 03:11:04 PM
I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices. That fact is not demonizing a business, but is characteristic of how individuals place profit over the law, not to mention placing it over people.

You're operating on outdated information. The transgressions you cite, the very same that every opponent of the company cites, happened in the early- and mid-'90s after Sam Walton died. That's not to say that isolated examples don't still occur, but rather that the institutional attitude that engendered and condoned them doesn't exist anymore. Wal Mart was sued over them, lost, and ever since has been sh*t-scared of being sued over them again and has implemented near-draconian corporate policies to try to ensure that they don't happen anymore.

Once Mr. Sam was gone the MBAs took over his company and made a serious but unintentional attempt to ruin it by assuming that they knew more about how to run a business than he did. The man built a multi-billion-dollar enterprise by doing things a certain way - lowest price possible and excellent customer service - and the college boys didn't even let his body cool before beginning to make changes in the operations and philosophy of the business while telling themselves and each other, "Now the old man's gone, we're gonna turn this place into a real moneymaker!". A classic example of educated fools thinking their classroom endeavors and success trump that resulting from lifelong labor and experience.

They stopped giving merit raises, demanded that work be done off the clock, paid straight time for overtime worked, and made people do work that they weren't supposed to do, among other things. For example, firing or cutting back the hours of the healthy young males who unloaded the trucks and ordering the young and old women who worked the floor to do it, then telling those women that because the work in their departments wasn't done by the end of their shift they would have to clock out and come back to finish it before going home or risk losing their jobs. Or just in general telling floor employees to clock out and return to complete assignments before going home, again under threat of being fired. Never mind that it's been busy and they'd been helping customers, "excuses" weren't accepted. Or, as in another case, "laying off" a long-time employee because of "lack of work available", as it said on the separation notice, but having a punk-ass assistant manager tell said employee that what's actually happening is she's being fired because, "...why should I pay you the money you're making when I can hire some teenage girl for minimum wage to do the same thing?"

While the changes resulting from those days are good, the company's management philosophy still leaves a lot to be desired. Like damn-near all businesses in America today, they don't practice customer service, they practice customer appeasement and call it customer service. IOW, they ignore the customer as much as possible until he gets upset, then they give him something free or at a discount to (hopefully) assuage his vexation. That's management, however. The worker bees, like I was, do their best to treat customers like they want to be treated as a shopper, but if doing for the customer interferes with doing assigned work the managers will quickly tell the worker bees that there are "other concerns" besides helping individual customers.

My mother worked for the company from the mid-'80s to mid-'90s and experienced the changes after Mr. Sam died firsthand (those things I noted from those days, and others, happened to her), and I worked for the company in '06-'07 and experienced the policy and atmosphere changes that resulted from them and the management philosophy that holds sway now.

*edit* Lee's said it well, especially that last part.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: MikePGS on February 11, 2009, 10:21:59 AM: As others have stated, the only issue I have with Wal-Mart really is their abundance of Chinese products. There is one a few miles down the road from us that we head to on occasion. However if we have a good amount of time (the gf and I that is) we much prefer going to Meijers, which is only a couple of miles further. Maybe its just a Michigan thing (i know they have some stores elsewhere to, Ohio and Kentucky I believe) but Meijers just seems to be better to us. Also we like the fact that its a Michigan company and so would like to support them for that reason alone, but its also nice that the quality of the store appears to be nicer. Sure they probably have a ridiculous amount of Chinese products as well, but if even a few dollars more are sent to a good solid Michigan company then its worth it in my estimation.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: digitalandanalog on February 13, 2009, 03:20:22 AM: Quote
OK, Don't Care, you've levied this accusation:

"I guess a successful business model also consists of violating fair employment practices."

Start backing it up.

Give specific examples that demonstrate how Wal Mart violates fair employment practices.

Otherwise, your claim is nothing more than useless hyperbole of the kind bandied about by the worst of the 'OH NOES!' crowd.

I wish I could provide very specific examples, but you just have to go with my generalizations here....sorry.

Here in Northwest Arkansas, Walmart news is always news. It can get pretty ugly from time to time and there have been reports of many class action lawsuits against the company for various reasons...including fair employment practices.

I admit that I shop at Wallyworld because the competion here is pretty MEH, but I see what goes on here and this is hardly the mecca of employment models.

I even dated a girl who works in the Home Office and she has told about some of the dirty deeds that Walmart has done to screw some of their contractors...even to the point of bankrupting them in order to insure the services don't have to be paid for.

Walmart is the All American business. Screw who you can for the best profit. This is a business based in Arkansas and they are not the ones to make up this model...they just made a really good version of it.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 13, 2009, 07:59:47 AM: I wish I could provide very specific examples, but you just have to go with my generalizations here....sorry.

so that would be a "no" when asked for substantiation?
followed by more "generalizations"?
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: K Frame on February 13, 2009, 08:19:21 AM: "you just have to go with my generalizations here"

No, no we don't.

Generalizations are absolute crap; virtually always overblown and not representative of the truth. (and yes, that is a generalization).

Your ex-girlfriend's accounts are also absolute crap. Unsubstantiated ramblings of a dissatisfied and perhaps unacceptable employee? Rumor monger? Or inside employee at the highest corporate levels of power at Wal Mart and thus able to accurately portray the company's business model?

There are fair employment practice lawsuits filed against companies every day. Most go nowhere because they're crap. Yes, Wal Mart has settled I believe two, and several others are languishing in the courts. Given Wal Mart's size, it's actually surprising that there aren't more.
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Bogie on February 13, 2009, 10:01:14 AM: I would work at a wally world, but I'd go at it with the intention of working my way up/into a support function. I'm not particularly a people person, but I can do that... There's more to the store than the floor...
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 13, 2009, 10:37:47 AM: my lil bro made 15 an hour when he moved/quit. he was a night stocker. the benefits were ok. he has medical issues that make benefits a must
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Brad Johnson on February 13, 2009, 12:15:13 PM: $15 an hour is $31,200 per year, plus benefits.

For reference, the gross income break point for the top 50% of wage earners nationally is somewhere in the vicinity of $29k/yr. (source: The Tax Foundation)

Brad
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 13, 2009, 12:38:37 PM: and walmart hired my lil bro who is one of those folks who need to be on their meds to function. and they worked with him . more than any other place hes worked. he could legally qualify for disability but sitting is the kiss of death. his job is a true lifeline for him. they didn't take advantage of him and they coulda. other places have. the unions fear/hate walmart and finance the anti walmart noise. they hate foodlion too. shoot anymore a new hire at a union store is no better off than one at foodlion or walmart. those unions have sold out their members
Title: Re: Fly on the Wal: Undercover at Walmart
Post by: Dntsycnt on February 13, 2009, 12:44:42 PM: I work at WM. As this is a public forum, I'm not going to go into too many details on the negatives of the job, but really there aren't many at all. Just little annoyances. All in all, I love the place. I have a full time job with benefits (and I've only been working full time about a year) including health insurance, sick pay, and vacation time. I make enough to live and save a little, and I'm not even management yet.

Most friction I see in the company, from my lowly floor level, comes from lazy people within the system, and not from any active attempts to screw over the employees. Most gripes I hear stem more from an attitude of excessive entitlement than any coherent wrongs being done.

Not saying they're perfect. But I'm glad to have a job that ensures my health and financial well being (and is fairly insulated from the struggling economy).

Not to mention a system that rewards merit and hard work more than higher degrees.