Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Manedwolf on February 11, 2009, 12:02:31 PM
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I know enough about that if anyone gets ANY on them, they might have to remove the tissue right down to the bone.
What.
Acid attack sends eleven to hospital
Published: 11 Feb 09 11:48 CET
Fumes from what police believe to be acid thrown into an apartment near Jönköping in central Sweden have sent 11 people to hospital.
In addition to the two people in the apartment at the time of the attack, two police officers and seven emergency workers also sought treatment for exposure to the substance, which authorities initially suspected to be hydrofluoric acid, according to Sveriges Television (SVT).
Initial reports had put the number of victims at 13, but the figure was adjusted downward to 11 later in the day on Wednesday.
Police are also less certain about the exact nature of the substance, admitting that they have no idea what the substance could be.
“They’re on their way here from emergency services in Gothenburg to do a quick test,” police inspector Lennart Wennblom told the TT news agency at lunchtime on Wednesday.
The attack took place around 2am in a the Öxnehaga residential area of Husqvarna outside of Jönköping.
According to police, five windows were broken and and the liquid was thrown into the apartment, but exactly how remains unclear.
The two people in the apartment at the time, both in their twenties, were awakened by the sound of breaking glass.
“When police and emergency services arrived on the scene they said it was a brownish liquid which immediately caused severe throat irritation,” said Jönköping police spokesperson Nils-Erik Eriksson to the TT news agency.
Everyone present in the apartment has been admitted to hospital for observation for the next 48 hours.
According to Wennblom, all the victims feel well and police continue to work on uncovering a motive for the attack.
Hydrofluoric acid is highly corrosive and can quickly penetrate skin, sometimes weakening bones underneath. It can also interfere with nerve functioning, sometimes delaying awareness of any developing chemical burns.
If it penetrates the blood stream, hydrofluoric acid can also cause cardiac arrest.
http://www.thelocal.se/17508.html (http://www.thelocal.se/17508.html)
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"I know enough about that if anyone gets ANY on them, they might have to remove the tissue right down to the bone."
That's what happened to my brother some years ago.
He got HFA on him and ended up having to have a core of flesh and bone removed from his hand.
REALLY gross.
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What molarity HF?
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Eww... HF is NASTY stuff.
It's well on the list of chemicals I won't work with for any reason.
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I have experience with HF. NASTY stuff. You get that stuff on you, you don't even know it for ~12 hours. Then you realize it when your bones start decalcifying and you're in excruciating pain. I'd rather play with HCl than HF, at least with HCl, you know you're being burned.
In industry, if you spill HF on yourself, you can pretty much guarantee that the next number of hours will be spent getting said area rubbed with special cream by a safety officer. And no, the safety officers are not beautiful women, in general.
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Is that even available to the general public? Sounds like vicious stuff.
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In addition, the results of HF reacting with your bone matter are acutely toxic.
Nasty stuff. Available in low concentrations in some cleaning products, e.g. "Whink" clothing rust stain remover.
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Is that even available to the general public? Sounds like vicious stuff.
Yes, rust stain remover.
My dad damn near lost all his fingers after using it to clean acid stains off a couch. No pain at first, but then at 0dark:30 he woke and his fingers felt like he slammed them in a car door.
At the ER he had his hands in rubber gloves with all that funky cream and had injections of some acid neutralizer into each and every part of his finger every hour or so. For 24 hours.
My dad is not a good patient to begin with...so me & the step-mom went to Denny's.
Needless to say, I take care around acids & other household chemicals.
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sounds like bromine to me.
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Yeah, HF isn't brown, and if they got enough fumes to have irritation they'd be dead already.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpicture.vzw.com%2Fmi%2F365456312_1259318604_0.jpeg%3Flimitsize%3D345%2C345%26amp%3Boutquality%3D56%26amp%3Bext%3D.jpg%26amp%3Bborder%3D2%2C0%2C0%2C0&hash=f73d4ec7717f224e74d6bf9b70ced9829878b172)
Getup I wore while doing HF etching. Aww, the smell of a cleanroom. =D
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpicture.vzw.com%2Fmi%2F365456312_1259318604_0.jpeg%3Flimitsize%3D345%2C345%26amp%3Boutquality%3D56%26amp%3Bext%3D.jpg%26amp%3Bborder%3D2%2C0%2C0%2C0&hash=f73d4ec7717f224e74d6bf9b70ced9829878b172)
Getup I wore while doing HF etching. Aww, the smell of a cleanroom. =D
Just where did you wear your red "x"?..... :laugh:
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I've looked around a bit, and there's not much in the way of information about this. Heck, the article from The Local is one of the longer ones.
My immediate guess is that it's political. Most likely, a bunch of leftards from Anti Fascist Action who decided to punish what they see as "fascists" (;/). My reasons for believing this is that had there been the slightest hint of nazis throwing acid, the newspapers would've gone on and on about it, non stop.
But, we'll see what comes from this.
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We have lots of HF in the cleanroom, and I'm qualified to use it, not that I want to. Strangely, it's one of the few things that can't be kept in glass containers. It somehow etches through. HF must be kept in special teflon or PE containers.
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We have lots of HF in the cleanroom, and I'm qualified to use it, not that I want to. Strangely, it's one of the few things that can't be kept in glass containers. It somehow etches through. HF must be kept in special teflon or PE containers.
I used it to remove SiO2 from Si wafers. Yeah, glass containers would be bad.
It's rather fun to take 1 drop of HF and put it onto a wafer. As it eats through different layers of oxide, it will show a rainbow of colors. Each color representing a specific thickness of oxide. You can roughly estimate how thick of an oxide you have by counting the colors.
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A guy I used to work with kept the small amount of HF he was using in cleaned-out Cool Whip containers, under the fume hood. =|
Well, it didn't dissolve them, at least.
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polyethylene is HF safe, as is nickel... for a while.
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I captained an ERT for a company in Colorado Springs some years ago. We had a lot of nasty acids and bases, not to mention a large store of cryogenic H2 and O2 at that company, but HF was the only item that really frightened me. We had gallons of the stuff.
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hydroiodic acid or bromic perhaps is the real culprit. HF is nasty stuff IIRC the reason why is the affinity most halogenic acids have for calcium. Also explains the bit about cardiac arrest. HF is the only non-organic acid I know of that reacts strongly with tissue.
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Little update: It turns out that it wasn't hydroflouric acid. "Only" pepper spray, atleast according to the local newspaper.
Also, the same apartment was hit again yesterday. My suspicions seems to have been confirmed as well - AFA (Anti Fascist Action). I am not surprised.
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hydroiodic acid or bromic perhaps is the real culprit. HF is nasty stuff IIRC the reason why is the affinity most halogenic acids have for calcium. Also explains the bit about cardiac arrest. HF is the only non-organic acid I know of that reacts strongly with tissue.
Really? try spilling concentrated sulphuric acid or chromic acid on you. Neither are organic. You will know it real quickly.
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Little update: It turns out that it wasn't hydroflouric acid. "Only" pepper spray, atleast according to the local newspaper.
Also, the same apartment was hit again yesterday. My suspicions seems to have been confirmed as well - AFA (Anti Fascist Action). I am not surprised.
I am not going to comment on the apparent abilities of your crime scene techs there...
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Pepper spray smells like pepper spray.
Then again it coulda been mace, rather than actual pepper spray.
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Really? try spilling concentrated sulphuric acid or chromic acid on you. Neither are organic. You will know it real quickly.
I have. Along with concentrated HCl, concentrated nitric, and concentrated phosphoric.
Nothing close to this (http://www.eatonhand.com/complic/figures/hfl.htm) happened. Not even with concentrated NaOH.
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I have. Along with concentrated HCl, concentrated nitric, and concentrated phosphoric.
Nothing close to this (http://www.eatonhand.com/complic/figures/hfl.htm) happened. Not even with concentrated NaOH.
Damn, you need to be a little more careful with the acid there dude.
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Damn, you need to be a little more careful with the acid there dude.
Yeah it seemed no matter how I tried to avoid it, I always found the nasty stuff. It was all at a former job, their safety lack of precautions didn't help. It's the reason why I avoided the HF like plague. Also avoided the 32% hydrogen peroxide, real nasty stuff. The other crap mostly came from leaking dstorage tanks that maintenance refused to repair. I would end up walking into a contaminated area and getting that crap on my clothes.