Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: mtnbkr on March 16, 2009, 10:54:51 AM
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My front yard is roughly 10x30ft and has a large cherry tree in the center. The tree is roughly 10-12" in diameter at the base and the canopy comes close to covering the entire yard.
The problem I'm having is the tree sucks up so much water during the dry part of the summer (late June through Sept), I'm having a hard time maintaining any grass in the middle third of the yard. Short of removing the tree, is there anything I can do to reduce it's water usage? Would pruning it back significantly help?
I'd prefer not to remove it as it is very pretty when in bloom and provides needed shade during the summer (front yard gets the full brunt of the summer sun).
We've considered landscaping the affected area so the dead grass isn't an issue, but I'm not sure the HOA would be keen on such a large landscaping feature in the front yard.
Any ideas?
Chris
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Run a hose over to it and water the crap out of the area?
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Maybe there just isn't enough sunlight getting through to the grass . . .
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Run a hose over to it and water the crap out of the area?
I do that now, but it's expensive and with our dry summers, I'm watering every day from July to Sept.
Maybe there just isn't enough sunlight getting through to the grass . . .
I've seeded the area multiple times with shade tolerant grass and it only becomes an issue during the dry months. April through July, the grass grows like crazy (tree is fully leafed out by April-May). While the tree is big, it's not a deeply shaded area.
Chris
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I would stop trying to forcibly recreate an english lawn and think logically about the landscape
you might want to plan some shade tolerant flower beds and establish a better base for growing a shaded lawn
The contractor grade hydroseeded lawn has prolly out lived the installed poor soil base
I have also had great success with low flow drip/spray irrigation systems on timers
The soil stays moist and the green growth is really impressive
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/shrug I grew up in AZ so heavy year round water usage seems normal to me. Maybe run your grey water out to that area? We have hippies here who only water their lawn that way, seems to work for them.
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I would stop trying to forcibly recreate an english lawn and think logically about the landscape
Huh? I don't quite understand the reference.
you might want to plan some shade tolerant flower beds
That's what I had in mind. The amount of flower bed I'd have to install is a significant portion of the yard (roughly the middle third lengthwise and entire width of that section).
and establish a better base for growing a shaded lawn
How?
The contractor grade hydroseeded lawn has prolly out lived the installed poor soil base
I put down seed and fertilizer just about every spring. I end up with a beautiful lawn until the dry season hits, then it's a struggle to keep up via sprinklers and such.
It wasn't that bad when we first moved in, but 8 years later, the tree has grown enough to use a significant portion of the available water.
Chris
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have you had the soil tested? county agricultural extension agent can do it. if pwc doesn't have one bring it to stafford we can say sample is from my yard
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What would they be testing for? The backyard grows grass like nothing I've seen before and the front and rear third of my front yard grows very well. It's just the section of yard right over the main part of the tree's roots that is suffering. By August, I can get away just mowing the front and rear of my front yard, not touching the middle portion at all.
It seems pretty clear it's a water issue because if I water daily, the problem goes away, but it's expensive watering enough to keep the grass happy.
Chris
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well, the typical american in england asks about how they get such lovely lawns,
the english response is that they roll them, for 1000 years
;)
the clipped verdant lawn is kind of copypasta of somewhere else's landscape,
getting it to flourish in your front yard make take some demo and rebuild of the underpinnings
Do your neighbors like the smell of horsemanure in the morning?
We had a silver Maple in our MD frontyard
It grew from a 1.5 inch sapling to a 10 inch tree in 15 years
Its shallow roots were buckling the driveway and a tripping hazard.
Mr chainsaw dropped it one winter.
Some trees are just not the proper species for a small yard.
For example the Sycamores that the builder installed in the old neighborhood.
They are more appropriate marking a spring at the edge of a huge pasture.
The flowering cherry is a nice tree, our old streets were lined with them.
Spring was over when the pink snow fell from the blossoming trees.
They are great climbers too, but in the old hood,
they are now getting overly large for the spaces they were planted into.
These are the low flow watering systems that i run:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=191775-1029-MLK-PWK&lpage=none
the timer is a nice add on:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=62056-1029-MLWT-ELEC&lpage=none
Mine ran 4 times a day for 5-10 minutes
My water bill dropped and my dahlias were marvelous
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The Maple used to be where the terra-cotta light is resident
The raised rock beds where the envy of the hood
We had them staged for continuous blooms.
I prolly moved 10,000 pounds of stone into that yard
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I don't need a yard like a putting green, I just want the grass to grow well enough to cover the dirt. :)
I have a feeling the cherry is too big for the yard, which is why I was hoping there was some way to retard it's growth.
The watering system looks good, but I'd have to tunnel it under my sidewalk to avoid having hosing run over it.
Chris
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What would they be testing for? The backyard grows grass like nothing I've seen before and the front and rear third of my front yard grows very well. It's just the section of yard right over the main part of the tree's roots that is suffering. By August, I can get away just mowing the front and rear of my front yard, not touching the middle portion at all.
It seems pretty clear it's a water issue because if I water daily, the problem goes away, but it's expensive watering enough to keep the grass happy.
Chris
Cherry & leaf detritus may be changing the soil to kill off the grass. Not even remotely the same zone, but my family's apple tree, crab-apple tree, and a pear tree all grow grass under them poorly. The grass is weaker under all the fruit trees.
Watering may be washing away or changing pH or something etc. There could also be grubs, or fungus that likes the area under the tree that's not present elsewhere.
Have you actually tested with a simple moisture meter?
The tree's presence may be changing the drainage of the soil in the area, but I can't imagine the tree's drinking it all "first". Since the grass gets all the precipitation first as it falls.
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i'm no tree guy but my oaks change the ph of the soil the grass sprouts up in spring doesn't grow tall then fades
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Good points. I'll check the soil and see what we have.
Chris
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if you need to tunnel under driveway or walk a power washer works
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In this region isn't almost impossible to keep a yard from going dormant starting around July.
If there's too much stress on it prior to that, it won't just go dormant, it will go dead.
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IIRC cherry trees have a very shallow root system. Fruit trees in general are water intensive.
You really only have two choices.
A) Deep-soak the heck out of the yard on a regular basis.
or...
B) Pretend you are George Washington.
Brad
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This isn't a fruiting cherry tree, but an ornamental (like the ones around the DC Tidal Basin, the ones that draw tourists each Spring). Dunno if it makes a difference when comparing to fruit trees or not...
Chris
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Not really. They're still in the family of fruiting trees.
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What caliber for cherry tree?
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In this region isn't almost impossible to keep a yard from going dormant starting around July.
If there's too much stress on it prior to that, it won't just go dormant, it will go dead.
Ee's not dead, ee's merely dormant.
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When I die, Bury Me
Hang my ****s from a cherry tree
Let 'em get ripe, and take a bite,
And if they don't taste right,
Then don't blame me!
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Buy a bunch of paving stone bricks and turn the area into a shaded patio sitting area. :)
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Landscaper here, sorry I'm late to the thread. Trees are water and nutrient hogs, you need to get your grass up away from those shallow roots.
Build up the soil around the affected area 3-4". Plant a grass seed that thrives in the shade.
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I don't need a yard like a putting green, I just want the grass to grow well enough to cover the dirt. :)
I have a feeling the cherry is too big for the yard, which is why I was hoping there was some way to retard it's growth.
The watering system looks good, but I'd have to tunnel it under my sidewalk to avoid having hosing run over it.
Chris
Mulch the tree with wood chips where the bare grass is. You could look into a European style of prunning to keep the tree to managable shape. Depending how large your tree is this would take several seasons to get it pruned down to shape without killing or stressing the tree.
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The last 3 responses are pretty good choices.
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Building up the affected area of the lawn really isn't an option considering the size of the area. It would make the yard look like I had a huge mound in the middle. Creating a patio would probably not work either. Pruning is probably my best choice. I do some pruning each Spring anyway to keep the size down a bit. I should prune more.
Chris
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The last 3 responses are pretty good choices.
Well we can't have that sort of a trend, can we?
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I'd be careful about piling dirt on top of the root zone.
I did this with an ash tree once and killed it.
Sawdust
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I'd be careful about piling dirt on top of the root zone.
I did this with and ash tree once and killed it.
Sawdust
Yep, lots of gas exchange happens at the root level, cut of oxygen or ability to dump waste and you kill the tree.
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this might help in pruning
http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_h/h-156.pdf
I just pruned my crab apple yesterday, removed about 5% of the tree's mass. Had a lot of rubbing branches.
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does asian jasmine thrive in your area? How about english ivy?
AJ is very shade & drought tolerant & sprads. It is very popular here (DFW) under trees that kill of the grass under them.
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How close is the neighbor's water spigot?
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How close is the neighbor's water spigot?
Had a house listed a few years ago where the side yard was dying and the owner couldn't figure out why. One morning he happened to be up when the sprinkler system came one. Turns out his next door neighbor had "helped" by turning all the sprinkler heads to face into his own yard.
Brad
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xeriscaping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeriscaping
bringing the darkside of the moon to your front yard