Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: GeoJAP on March 16, 2009, 01:47:36 PM
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I'm sorry the other thread about this was locked. Please don't put any illegal or treasonous speech into this thread, I don't want it to be locked. Some people questioned the report's authenticity which I posted. Well, here you go. The AP seems to think it's real. And Lt. Hotz, who I recommended that you call to verify its authenticity, is quoted all over this article.
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1086524.html
Missouri report on militias, terrorists draws criticism
The Associated Press
More News
COLUMBIA, Mo. | A new document meant to help Missouri law enforcement agencies identify militia members or domestic terrorists has drawn criticism for some of the warning signs mentioned.
The Feb. 20 report called "The Modern Militia Movement" mentions such red flags as political bumper stickers for third-party candidates, such as U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, who ran for president last year; talk of conspiracy theories, such as the plan for a superhighway linking Canada to Mexico; and possession of subversive literature.
"It seems like they want to stifle political thought," said Roger Webb, president of the University of Missouri campus Libertarians. "There are a lot of third parties out there, and none of them express any violence. In fact, if you join the Libertarian Party, one of the things you sign in your membership application is that you don't support violence as a means to any ends."
But state law enforcement officials said the report is being misinterpreted.
Lt. John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol said the report comes from publicly available, trend data on militias. It was compiled by the Missouri Information Analysis Center, a "fusion center" in Jefferson City that combines resources from the federal Department of Homeland Security and other agencies. The center, which opened in 2005, was set up to collect local intelligence to better combat terrorism and other criminal activity, he said.
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The ubiquitous Lt. Holz isn't doing much to allay public fears of his agency's use of the data, is he?
IOW, he defends the data as being publicly available, but doesn't explain why it's so evil to him and his fellow troopers, or that they made a grossly over-simplified boogeyman out of perfectly legal symbology.
(The Gadsden Flag? C'mon...)
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Give them money, and they will squander it. That takes a high school education to figure out?
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have you guys read the document? what part is so offensive/wrong?
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have you guys read the document? what part is so offensive/wrong?
The original can be seen in another thread started by GeoJap.
Quite interesting - I thought it to be a fake but was wrong it seems.
From reading it many of us here on APS would probably be profiled as potential terrorists by MO law enforcement.
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Werewolf hit the nail on the head.
I wouldn't consider folks owning/displaying a Gadsden flag as some sort of subversive/terrorist organization.
I'm thinking that in lieu of teabags being sent to D.C., perhaps we can send Gadsden flags to the Missouri State Highway Patrol? =D
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my read of it gets that they say that members of certain groups might display certain signs and insignia not that anyone who flies a flag is a member of a terrorist group.
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From reading it many of us here on APS would probably be profiled as potential terrorists by MO law enforcement.
Bingo!
<insert patriot act here>
Who wants to be my cellmate at Gitmo?!?
my read of it gets that they say that members of certain groups might display certain signs and insignia not that anyone who flies a flag is a member of a terrorist group.
My read is that they are profiling certain groups. Except, unlike profiling common criminals and gang members, the have attached the "Terrorist" word to the "Suspect" word.
"Suspect" gets you questioned.
"Suspected Terrorist" gets you held indefintely.
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Well, I live in Missouri, so you can blame it on me.
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Here is the original thread with all the scanned pages of the report.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=18559.0
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Well, I live in Missouri, so you can blame it on me.
Nah. It's Bush's fault.
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Well... considering that the police can pull you over for pretty much anything, anyway...not a huge deal to me. But the Internet is rocking with stories about this. I understand that Libertarian stickers gets you the same attention from the MSP.
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I live in missouri and I have a criminal law degree. While getting my degree I took many classes with current/former missouri highway patrol officers. I had more than one go on rants about "redneck right-wing" militia groups. They seemed to be quite certain that those groups posed more of a threat than Islamic terrorists. I think they really drill this into them for some reason. This document coming out is less than thrilling to me. Nowhere in the report do they state anything that any specific group in missouri has done to require such attention.
That being said, every one of the MSHP guys that I have interacted with (in the classroom and on the side of the highway) has been very professional, intelligent, and responsible with their power.. much moreso than the local cops or county deputies I've had interactions with.
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I wonder how long it will be before stickers referencing the NRA, Glock, Sig, S&W, etc. fall within these same categories.
Nothing like using legitimate political speech to target individuals.
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From reading it many of us here on APS would probably be profiled as potential terrorists by MO law enforcement.
It's a mindset that goes beyond law enforcement. I was watching "The Unit" last Sunday, and the episode entailed the characters responding to a chlorine gas attack in their neighborhood. The main characters were doing stuff like taping up doors, closing air conditioning vents, and turning on heaters. When one of the "run of the mill" neighbor characters asked why they were doing that, they explained the properties of chlorine. The neighbor responded, "How do you know this? Are you guys some kind of survivalist nuts?" Of course to balance things out, the bad guys who started the chlorine attack were right wing extremist neo-nazis.
I realized that the neighbor character actually portrayed a mindset I've seen myself. There's been more than one occasion where some kind of practical "what would you do" question in conversations with friends and coworkers has come up, and when I've given a practical answer, someone has always been bound to say, "Oh yeah, NRA gun nut survivalist Ben". Nevermind that it's information anyone would learn in Elementary school, the Boy Scouts, the military, or even Federal government "ready.gov" type preparedness websites. Somehow the knowledge of practical skills or basic science, when combined with their application in an emergency, makes one a suspect fringe element unless they're wearing a uniform or somehow representing the government. Actually to be specific, it makes one a wacko in discussion of emergency scenarios. If it's an actual emergency, then the unprepared people are generally more than happy to "rally round the wacko".
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I despise the pathetic cowards who sneer at those who prepare then beg for help. :mad:
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My read is that they are profiling certain groups. Except, unlike profiling common criminals and gang members, the have attached the "Terrorist" word to the "Suspect" word.
"Suspect" gets you questioned.
"Suspected Terrorist" gets you held indefintely.
Bingo. "Terrorism" is the new law enforcement buzz word, the key to the exchequer. Anything they want to do that might otherwise be indefensible, they now stick "Terroristic" or "Terrorist" in front of it and, voila! -- instant acceptance by the huddled masses. Do y'all read the news much? Ever notice how in the last couple of years nobody ever seems to get charged with "threatening" any more? Nope, if a 7th grader tells the playground bully to back off or he'll get his lights punched out, the kid now gets cuffed and stuffed, and chrged with "terroristic" threatening.
I always felt that terrorism and things related more or less implied a wide-spread threat to society at large, or at least to significant subsets of society. The way some state's laws have been crafted post-9/11, though, in some jurisdictions it is legally possible to be charged with "terroristic" threatening if the incident only involves you and one other person.
And that's just not right.
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I've been predicting the misuse of all the "anti-terrorist" stuff Bush passed since the Patriot Act first came to town. Other than the fact I thought it would be Hillary at the reins, those are coming true.
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It's a mindset that goes beyond law enforcement. I was watching "The Unit" last Sunday, and the episode entailed the characters responding to a chlorine gas attack in their neighborhood. The main characters were doing stuff like taping up doors, closing air conditioning vents, and turning on heaters. When one of the "run of the mill" neighbor characters asked why they were doing that, they explained the properties of chlorine. The neighbor responded, "How do you know this? Are you guys some kind of survivalist nuts?" Of course to balance things out, the bad guys who started the chlorine attack were right wing extremist neo-nazis.
One of my favorite shows. In defense of the show, they happily show islamic terrorists, alot.
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<snip> Somehow the knowledge of practical skills or basic science, when combined with their application in an emergency, makes one a suspect fringe element unless they're wearing a uniform or somehow representing the government. Actually to be specific, it makes one a wacko in discussion of emergency scenarios. If it's an actual emergency, then the unprepared people are generally more than happy to "rally round the wacko".
Reminds me of last weekend at my youngest son's Little League game. I was standing on the sideline watching the game, and the father of one of the other players was standing next to me. After a couple of innings, my oldest son came up to me and told me he had been stung by a bee on his hand.
Sure enough, there was the stinger and poison sac. Of course, one does not remove a bee stinger be grabbing the end with fingers, as this will squeeze the poison sac thus dispensing the poison into the victim.
So, I whip-out my Benchmade Griptillion and scrape the stinger out. Out of the corner of my eye, I see the eye's of the other father go to saucer-size upon seeing the knife. Needless to say, he didn't come any where near me the rest of the game and made it a point to keep his distance if I came near him.
He probably would have filled his pants if he knew of the pistol in my pocket.
Sawdust
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It saddens me that grown men can be so afraid of a pocket knife. Sometimes I wonder how people like that manage to make it through the day. Probably starbucks and pills.
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I understand that Libertarian stickers gets you the same attention from the MSP.
That's news to me. ??? Not sayin' it ain't true, but I've just never seen or heard of that attitude anywhere in the state. Then again, I don't know any Libertarians (locally) and I don't rock bumper stickers anymore.
And here my state got such bad ratings from the Brady Campaign, and such a good rating from that "Which states are free-est" list a little while ago. =)
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I'm with dasmi. What kind of pathetic excuse for a man is terrified of a freaking pocket knife, and how can they make it through life? I just don't get it....
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I despise the pathetic cowards who sneer at those who prepare then beg for help. :mad:
Rorschach’s Journal: October 12th 1985. Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout ‘Save us!’ And I’ll whisper ‘no’.
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Oh, my. :O
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It's from "Watchmen" (the graphic novel, they changed the quote for the movie).
"...all the whores and politicians" became "the whole world".
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Who wants to be my cellmate at Gitmo?!?
Do you snuggle?
"...all the whores and politicians" became "the whole world".
Sadly enough its probably an appropriate change.
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That's news to me. ??? Not sayin' it ain't true, but I've just never seen or heard of that attitude anywhere in the state. Then again, I don't know any Libertarians (locally) and I don't rock bumper stickers anymore.
And here my state got such bad ratings from the Brady Campaign, and such a good rating from that "Which states are free-est" list a little while ago. =)
I'm guessing that there's one high-ranked individual within the MO.gov chain of command that has a bug up their arse about militias and "right-wing terrah", and an institutional culture of appeasing that person has grown up around them. Then you get these make-work briefings like this to patronize them. Perhaps it's someone on who the neighboring OKC bombing made a big impression. And despite Tim McVeighs quasi lone-wolf status, they never let go of the attempt to paint the entire RKBA/Right/Libertarian/Militia/Constitutional community with the OKC brush because it fits neatly with their particular world view.
That's my guess at any rate, I'd lay $100 on being right. =)
Honestly, I'm more puzzled about this report/briefing than I am insulted. The MSM is a pretty good barometer of any untwoard right-wing activity here in the U.S. Simply because they're still very eager to find any example of "domestic terror" they can, to help prop up their own biased view that "Terror isn't just an Islamist problem." etc. And their natural desire to downplay as best that they can that Western Civilization is indeed in an ill-defined, yet protracted struggle for well.... something.
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Western Civilization is indeed in an ill-defined, yet protracted struggle for well.... something.
That would be the remote control.
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That would be the remote control.
No... I think it's the freedom to struggle for the remote control. :lol:
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It's from "Watchmen" (the graphic novel, they changed the quote for the movie).
"...all the whores and politicians" became "the whole world".
Hey, no need to put whores in the same category as politicians, that is just irresponsible and mean. (to the whores)
Wait, how did this thread come to this?
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if I had a choice as to who to share a cell with, I would take a working girl over a politician anyday.
BTW, the story is now on drudge.
http://www.kansascity.com/116/story/1086524.html
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Rorschach’s Journal: October 12th 1985. Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout ‘Save us!’ And I’ll whisper ‘no’.
Great movie. Ozmandius is a NWO poster child, though.
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According to the following libertarians and a host of other are threats
http://www.augustreview.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=31
© 2009 The August Review
The Radical Polarization of Law Enforcement Print
by Patrick Wood, Editor
March 18, 2009
Patriots, Christians and concerned citizens are increasingly in the cross hairs of the U.S. intelligence community, and battle lines are being quietly drawn that could soon pit our own law enforcement and military forces against us.
A February 20 report entitled "The Modern Militia Movement" was issued by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) that paints mainstream patriotic Americans as dangerous threats to law enforcement and to the country. Operating under the Missouri State Highway Patrol, the MIAC is listed as a Fusion Center that was established in cooperation with the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice.
Because authenticity of the report was questioned by some, this writer contacted Missouri state Representative Jim Guest (R-King City) who had personally verified that the report had indeed been issued. Rep. Guest is chairman of the Personal Privacy Committee and is a prominent leader in the national Blowback against the Real ID Act of 2005 that requires states to issue uniform driver's licenses containing personal biometric data. (See Guest warns against Big Brother, Real ID)
Rep. Guest stated that he was "shocked and outraged" at the report, which clearly paints him and many other elected state leaders, as a potential threats to law enforcement.
Instead of focusing on actual criminal incidents of "home-grown" terrorism, the MAIC report instead lists issues that it believes are common to the threats it perceives. Thus, Americans involved with the following issues are highly suspect:
-- "Ammunition Accountability Act" - requiring each bullet to to be serialized and registered to the purchaser.
-- "Anticipation of the economic collapse of the US Government" - Prominent scholars and economists are openly debating the bankruptcy and insolvency of the United States government.
-- "Possible Constitutional Convention (Con Con)" - 32 states have called for a Constitutional Convention to force Congress and the Executive Branch into a balanced budget, but many are concerned that if called, Con Con would be taken over by hostile interests who would introduce Amendments that are harmful to national Sovereignty.
-- "North American Union" - MIAC states that "Conspiracy theorists claim that this union would link Canada, the United States, and Mexico. The NAU would unify its monetary system and trade the dollar for the AMERO. Associated with this theory is concern over a NAFTA Superhighway, which would Fast Track trade between the three nations. There is additional concern that the NAU would open up the border causing security risks and free movement for immigrants."
-- "Universal Service Program" - "Statements made by President Elect Obama and his chief of staff have led extremists to fear the creation of a Civilian Defense Force. This theory requires all citizens between the age of 18 and 25 to be forced to attend three months of mandatory training." (This is exactly what Obama and Rahm Emmanuel have repeatedly stated on national TV, and thus is hardly a theory.)
-- "Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)" - This includes human implantation, but the larger concern is universal id cards and personal property identification that can be read electronically without the bearer's knowledge.
Citizens who are concerned about the above issues are then lumped into radical ideologies such as Christian Identity, White Nationalists (e.g., neo-Nazi, Skinheads, etc.) and anti-Semites. Tax Resisters and Anti-Immigration advocates are thrown into the same category.
The MIAC report then sternly warns law enforcement personnel,
"You are the Enemy: The militia subscribes to an antigovernment and NWO mind set, which creates a threat to law enforcement officers. They view the military, National Guard, and law enforcement as a force that will confiscate their firearms and place them in FEMA concentration camps." [Bold emphasis appears in original]
On the last page of the MIAC report, a section listing Political Paraphernalia (flags and symbols) states,
"Militia members most commonly associate with 3rd party political groups. It is not uncommon for militia members to display Constitutional Party, Campaign for Liberty, or Libertarian material. These members are usually supporters of former Presidential Candidate: Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr.
Militia members commonly display picture, cartoons, bumper stickers that contain anti-government rhetoric. Most of this material will depict the FRS, IRS, FBI, ATF, CIA, UN, Law Enforcement, and the 'New World Order' in a derogatory manor (sic). Additionally, Racial, anti-immigration, and anti-abortion, material may be displayed by militia members."
What was the ostensible genesis of all these "threats" to law enforcement? The report explains it this way...
"Academics contend that female and minority empowerment in the 1970s and 1960s caused a blow to white male's sense of empowerment. This, combined with a sense of defeat from the Vietnam War, increased levels of immigration, and unemployment, spawned a paramilitary culture. This caught on in the 1980's with injects such as Tom Clancy novels, Solder of Fortune Magazine, and movies such as Rambo that glorified combat. This culture glorified white males and portrayed them as morally upright heroes who were mentally and physically tough.
"It was during this timeframe that many individuals and organizations began to concoct conspiracy theories to explain their misfortunes. These theories varied but almost always involved a globalist dictatorship the"New World Order (NWO), which conspired to exploit the working class citizens."
In other words, these "ridiculous NWO theories" were created by psychological deviants who were trying to justify their own self-induced misfortunes.
Fear ye, all troopers
For unsuspecting law enforcement personnel, this MIAC training document polarizes unsuspecting officers to fear peaceful, law-abiding citizens and greatly increases the risk of armed confrontation. For instance, a routine traffic stop would be escalated if the officer observes a Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin bumper sticker on the rear bumper of the car. The mere possession of printed material such as the U.S. Constitution or Bill of Rights would be viewed as subversive, even though most officers are required to take an oath to "defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States" as a condition of their employment.
Additionally, troopers are indoctrinated that all such topics are pure fantasy and without any factual basis. Even if they had their own concerns, they would be ridiculed into accepting the position that all criticism of the New World Order is dangerous to their well being.
The Columbia Daily Tribune (Columbia, Missouri) reports this concern from local resident Tim Neal, who apparently fits the MIAC's "Modern Militia" profile:
“If a police officer is pulling me over with my family in the car and he sees a bumper sticker on my vehicle that has been specifically identified as one that an extremist would have in their vehicle, the guy is probably going to be pretty apprehensive and not thinking in a rational manner, and this guy’s walking up to my vehicle with a gun.” [see 'Fusion Center' draws fire over assertions]
MIAC is a Fusion Center
As mentioned above, the Missouri Information Analysis Center is one of a network of over 50 Fusion Centers around the country.
According to the National Criminal Intelligence Resource Center (NCIRC), a Fusion Center is "a collaborative effort of two or more agencies that provide resources, expertise, and/or information to the center with the goal of maximizing the ability to detect, prevent, apprehend, and respond to criminal and terrorist activity."
As of 2006, the NCIRC listed 50 Fusion Centers in various states.
Most importantly, the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security are the driving forces behind Fusion Centers, having published "Fusion Center Guidelines: Developing and Sharing Information and Intelligence in a New World." This report headlines "Fusion" as "Turning Information and Intelligence Into Actionable Knowledge."
Fusion Centers are one of five areas of information sharing under the Information Sharing Environment (ISE) that was established by the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.
ISE membership includes the Department of Commerce, CIA, Department of Defense, Director of National Intelligence, Department of Energy, FBI, Health and Human Services, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Department of Homeland Security, National Counter-Terrorism Center, Department of Interior, Office of Management and Budget, Department of Justice, Department of State, Department of Transportation and the Department of Treasury.
According to one white paper (on the ISE web site) entitled The Intelligence Fusion Process for State, Local and Tribal Law Enforcement, "The most important output of the intelligence Fusion Center is actionable intelligence. This means that the intelligence produced by the center will drive operational responses and strategic awareness of threats." Accordingly,
"The heart of good intelligence analysis is to have a diverse array of valid and reliable raw information for analysis. The more robust the raw information, the more accurate the analytic output (i.e., intelligence) will be."
The above mentioned MIAC report, issued by an official Fusion Center, is apparently part of this "diverse array of valid and reliable raw information."
However, ISE's understanding of intelligence is foolish. Any intelligence analyst knows that so-called raw information is treated as garbage until verified from multiple sources to validate accuracy, completeness and freedom from bias. Secondly, analytic output depends upon trained and experienced human reasoning and judgment, not on the "robustness" of the raw information itself.
Where do Fusion Centers get inputs?
According to their own documents, Fusion Centers are "seeded" with ideas for analysis by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. Although this is problematic in itself, attention is better directed to the left-wing nonprofit organization, Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).
Upon careful word and theme comparison between the MIAC report and SPLC literature, it is apparent that there is a significant link between the two. Either MIAC received training or training material from SPLC or some of its personnel had some previous exposure to it.
The SPLC aggressively offers training to local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. According to the SPLC web site, "We focus on the history, background, leaders and activities of far-right extremists in the U.S." and states that it "is internationally known for its tolerance education programs, its legal victories against white supremacists and its tracking of hate groups."
Hate crimes are essentially acts of vilification of a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, such as racial, religious, sexual orientation, nationality, gender, etc. While hate crimes are wrong under any circumstance, the SPLC sees no conflict in profiling conservative whites, Christians, Constitutionalists, and patriots as being associated with, if not responsible for, hate crimes in America. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
For instance, consider the SPLC statement, "...a basic fact about all three movements: Patriots, white supremacists and anti-abortion militants are all fueled by interpretations of religion."
Aside from the fact that this sweeping generalization is plainly not true, it is mud-slinging at its best: Patriots are lumped in with white supremacists, anti-abortionists are militants, and all are driven by an obviously irrational and fanatical application of religion.
In another SPLC article about a tragic killing in South Carolina, entitled "The Abbeville Horror", the writer goes well beyond just the facts of the story and is careful to sprinkle in words and phrases such as:
Patriots, tax protestors, sovereign citizens, antigovernment extremists, New World Order paranoia, Disarming U.S. Citizens, hard-line Christian Right, constitutional rights, antigovernment "Patriot" literature, anti-Semitic conspiracy, "Live Free or Die," Ruby Ridge and Waco, Second Amendment, extremist organizing, "closet extremists," paranoid beliefs, "Give me liberty or give me death." [quotes appear in original text]
These are the same kinds of words and themes that are seen in The Modern Militia Movement article, where distinctions between good and bad people are blurred and confused: All are guilty by association, if nothing else.
Should a private organization like SPLC be allowed to provide official training to public-entrusted law enforcement agencies? Most would say, "No." Even if the training was free, the agency should reject influence from the public sector, and even more so if it presents biased and one-sided information that is claimed to be factual.
Conclusion
It is critical to understand that the legitimate law enforcement agencies of cities, counties and states are not adversaries of the people. They are greatly needed for protection against crime and for keeping order in our communities.
They are, however, being methodically seeded with very wrongheaded and dangerous information, the specific intent of which is to polarize law enforcement against peaceful citizens who simply care about the downfall of their country.
This writer interviewed Chuck Baldwin and asked about how he felt when he first saw his good name associated with those who would threaten bodily harm to law enforcement agencies. "Personally, I was stunned," he said, "but my family has taken this very personally as well. This is more than disturbing."
When asked about the possible affect of the report on the Constitution Party, of which he was the 2008 presidential candidate, he replied, "I think it will galvanize people and help them to understand the nature of the battle we are in. Freedom must be defended."
In fact, the MIAC report has created a firestorm all over America. Tens of thousands of protests are being called, written, emailed and faxed to authorities and legislators in Missouri. It would not be surprising to see the report rescinded and an apology given.
Even so, behind-the-scene groups like the SPLC will continue unabated and undeterred in their effort to misinform and disrupt healthy community relations with worthy law enforcement agencies and personnel.
The message to every jurisdiction: Don't let it happen!
Final thought
Locate the Fusion Center in your state and keep a close eye on the information they are releasing. Stay close to as many law enforcement personnel as you can, asking them to keep their eyes open for reports similar to the Missouri report. Petition your state legislators to ban law enforcement training by private organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center.
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According to the following libertarians and a host of other are threats
Already being discussed here:
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=18608.0
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I wonder what is in the water in Missouri. First, you have prosecutors using their office (or at least, giving the clear impression they will do so) to "enforce the truth" about Obama. Now, you have law enforcement using political speech as a profiling method.
The "Show Me" state seems to have a bit of the "We'll Show You" going on right now.
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Yup.
And now it's merged.
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IMO This whole thing boils down to:
Politicians have for a very long time been free to do what ever they wish based on a reasonable belief that voters are either stupid or have very short memories.
The Voting public is slowly waking up and starting to become aware of that attitude and they are not happy about it.
Politicians are waking up to the notion that some citizens are not terribly happy with them. From the politician's POV it is important that those citizens be taught that the goobermint is not to be trifled with. What better way to do that than to sic their armed agents on them.
Thus some states are indoctrinating their LEO's with mantras like the one that came out of MO.
Are LEO's to be faulted for willingly absorbing and going along with the mantra? My heart says yes but my brain says no. They're just your every day average Joe Sixpack doing his job the best he can and exhibiting the laudable trait of loyalty to his employer. So he absorbs the training as presented and performs his duties accordingly.
Kind of a conundrum one might say...
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I wonder what is in the water in Missouri. First, you have prosecutors using their office (or at least, giving the clear impression they will do so) to "enforce the truth" about Obama. Now, you have law enforcement using political speech as a profiling method.
The "Show Me" state seems to have a bit of the "We'll Show You" going on right now.
Well, hey, at least Missouri has only produced those two bad things. Everything else that comes from Missouri is just wonderful. :angel:
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Okay, so I hang out with a couple dozen other gunnies, we can all easily shoot our .30(.30-06, .30-30, .308Nato/Winchester, and .338) cal and .22 cals(.22lr, .223. .243) out to 150 yards without a single problem. I've gone with a few to a couple Appleseeds. And we share notes on gun kit builds and working on motorcylces(they let me use their machine shops so long as I share my notes, I'm working up a 6.8 Spc for Yugo M70AB2, got a guys notes who did it with the .243). And we are all pretty much fed up with the democratic party, liberals, anti-2nd Amendment scum. So are we terrorists or just southern good ol'boys who like shoot, build, and be pissed off at idiots.
I'm starting to fear SHTF less and less cause of this garbage, a chance to separate the wheat from the chaff, and maybe get some real men running things again.
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This is a serious issue.
SPLC hasn't been elected and probably never could be because they're pretty radical.
Yet they're allowed to influence policy at all levels of govt.
Its like having the KKK run the Negro College Fund because they change their name to "negro college legal fund".
SPLC has dedicated goons at the street level willing to attack people who simply have a different view then they do.
At the Court level they are very well funded from winning a number of lawsuits against numerous people.
They are also good at fundraising because they have gone after real KKK/ nazi types that scare the newyorkers/losageleans.
They don't scare us much ( real KKK/ nazi types) because we know how to shoot back, SPLC is a far left org disguised as a mainstream harmless anti racist group. (edited to add we APS member of all races/creeds/political beliefs are not afraid of KKK/Nazi & their far left allies SPLC)
What their lame idjit supporters fail to realize is that they (SPLC) worship the racist underpinnings of the state!
FACT
Almost all, if not all, gun control in the USA is based on the "Cruikshank decision" which held it was legal for a racist mob
to disarm recently freed slaves/black Civil War vets during reconstruction.
All of the "Cruikshank decision" has been almost totally thrown out except for the guncontrol part.
(I believe) its why we had to fight for incorporation of the Bill Of Rights, all of the first ten , not just the second has been adversely affected by "Cruikshank decision".
SPLC loves gun control and their ignorant idiot supporters think they are fighting racism while filling the prisons with minority & poor people!
Gun control is a racist tool of the fascist, SPLC is for gun control!
They have a lot of power, a lot of money, a lot of fanatic thugs.
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I'm working up a 6.8 Spc for Yugo M70AB2, got a guys notes who did it with the .243).
I'd love to see the design notes on that. Since the .243 is based on a 7.62x51mm, how did that work with a 7.62x39mm receiver? What magazines would work with that?
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They don't scare us much ( real KKK/ nazi types) because we know how to shoot back, SPLC is a far left org disguised as a mainstream liberal harmless anti racist group.
gunsmith, you might want to clarify that statement. It could easily be misunderstood as you labeling us as "real KKK/Nazi types". Most would understand what you meant, but some visitors to this site might not.
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gunsmith, you might want to clarify that statement. It could easily be misunderstood as you labeling us as "real KKK/Nazi types". Most would understand what you meant, but some visitors to this site might not.
I tried, any suggestions?
I know what I mean you know what I mean, liberals may not know what I mean because they're dumb brainwashed idjits...and I'm not the most articulate communicator either, any suggestions taken.
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"We aren't afraid of the real KKK types"
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"Those real KKK/nazi types types don't scare us much..."
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I'd love to see the design notes on that. Since the .243 is based on a 7.62x51mm, how did that work with a 7.62x39mm receiver? What magazines would work with that?
There is a Yugo AK variant, the M-76, which is kind of their own version of the Dragunov, that runs 8x57 (8mm) Mauser. That would be fine for .243 Winchester.
The Yugo M-70 is basically a 7.62x39 AK, so it would probably work ok for 6.8 SPC with a little boltface modification.
There is also a Yugo M-77/M-90 which was originally chambered in 7.62mm NATO (.308 Winchester), and it would be a good choice for any of that family of cartridges, be it a .243 Winchester, .260 Remington, 7mm-08, etc.