Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 280plus on March 23, 2009, 01:43:38 PM
-
happened last week in the Strait of Hormuz. Pic of the sub damage anyways. The Hartford no less. CT can't stay out of the news for anything these days. With our chimps and gators we've been causing quite a stir already. ;/
http://op-for.com/
-
There's a bit of a list to that sail.
It isn't bending over anywhere near as hard as the now-former commander of that U-Boat, though. :O
-
Well, yeah, but did the bender bender lead to a shoot-out? Were many innocent bystanders caught in the cross fire?
-
Between two U.S. ships?
The collision was between the U.S.S. Hartford (attack sub) and U.S.S. New Orleans (Amphibious Assault Ship)
Probably not, although I'd wager the careers of the two skippers involved will be somewhat shortened.
-
Wow, looking at the damage to the sail, this is going to be expensive. Not just pounding out the dents and calling it good. I bet they have to cut off the sail, repair it and the underlying structural frames and remount it. It does not look as if the sub can currently submerge.
-
BTW, did anybody notice that our friend 280 is one post away from 10K? :O
-
Unless they were having a joint exercise and the New Orleans suddenly zigged when they should've zagged, most of the cr@p will land on the sub's skipper.
-
Unless they were having a joint exercise and the New Orleans suddenly zigged when they should've zagged, most of the cr@p will land on the sub's skipper.
Ditto. Why the heck would you be submerged, but still within keel range, in a busy shipping channel? A Nimitz-class carrier only has a 40 foot draft, and I bet this ship had 20-30 feet. They've gotta have better tools than periscope for navigating shipping channels...
-
BTW, did anybody notice that our friend 280 is one post away from 10K? :O
I can fix that.
=D
-
Geez... if a little fender-bender like that gets you hauled in before a board of inquiry and forced into early retirement, how did Captians Kirk and Picard keep their commands for so long and through so much?
=D
-
is it a matter of operational security that no one needs to know a nuke sub is in the confines of the strait?
It seems to me they need a redlight to hold the lane open for stealth boats to be stealthy
The navy has had a difficult winter with their new toys getting nerfed up
Besides damaged propellers and sonar dome, the USS Port Royal suffered other damage after running aground on a reef near Honolulu Airport on Feb. 5:
» Both drive shafts and their support struts suffered heavy pressure and twisting.
» Instruments on the ship's underside were damaged.
» Hatches of the vertical launch cells, which hold missiles, were damaged.
» Sand and coral from the reef clogged the Port Royal's waste-water and sea-water ballast systems.
On 5 February 2009, at 9 p.m. the Port Royal ran aground about a half-mile south of the Honolulu International Airport's Reef Runway. The ship had just come out of a dry dock after undergoing maintenance and was undergoing its first sea trials. No one was injured in the incident and no fuel was spilled.
The cruiser, which has a draft of 33 feet, ran hard aground on a sand and rock ledge in an estimated 17 to 22 feet (5–7 m) of water. The salvage ship USNS Salvor made three unsuccessful efforts to pull the Port Royal off the sandbar (Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 6–7–8 February), despite full-moon high tides and the offloading of 200 tons of fuel and water, 7,000 gallons of raw sewage, and 15 tons of crewmembers.[6][7][8]
According to U.S. Pacific Fleet spokespersons in Honolulu, the ship ran aground on Thursday while moving very slowly as it transferred shore-based officials to a smaller boat to take them to shore. An oil recovery ship, the Clean Islands was behind the ship to clean up oil spills. Rear Admiral Dixon R. Smith, the commander of the Navy Region Hawaii and the Naval Surface Group Middle Pacific, embarked the ship on the morning of 6 February to serve as the on-scene commander. [9][10]
On 9 February 2009, the Port Royal was pulled off the rock and sand shoal at around 2 a.m. after crews removed another 500 tons of water and 100 tons of anchors and other equipment to lighten the vessel, the Navy said in a statement. The removal by a salvage ship and seven tug boats took about 40 minutes. No one was injured during the recovery effort, said Rear Adm. Joe Walsh, the U.S. Pacific Fleet deputy commander. Smith relieved the ship's commanding officer, Captain John Carroll, was temporarily relieved of his duties pending investigation. Carroll had been skipper of the Port Royal since October 2008.[11] Captain John Lauer, an official in Smith's Naval Surface Group Middle Pacific, temporarily assumed command.[12]
The warship suffered heavy damage to the underwater bow sonar dome and to its propellers and propeller shafts and was drydocked for repairs. Captain Neil Parrott was assigned to preside over the investigation into the grounding.[7][13]
Once the raw sewage dumped by the ship had dissipated, divers from the Hawai'i Department of Land and Natural Resources examined the site and discovered that the grounding had damaged the coral reef. The Hawaii divers, with help from Navy divers, began mapping the damage to ascertain the extent of work required to repair the coral. As of 12 February 2009, several of the cruiser's propeller blade tips had yet to be recovered from the ocean floor.[14][15][8]
On February 18, the ship entered Dry Dock Number 4 at Pearl Harbor. The Navy estimated that repairs would cost between $25 and $40 million.[16]
-
Wow, looking at the damage to the sail, this is going to be expensive. Not just pounding out the dents and calling it good. I bet they have to cut off the sail, repair it and the underlying structural frames and remount it. It does not look as if the sub can currently submerge.
As a former Sub sailor it is my estimation that it sucks to be that Skipper.
At the very least in addition to the entire superstructure being removed and replaced, most of the hydraulicaly operated masts probably got bent. Both Periscopes tubes penetrate the pressure hull and will need to be replaced as well as the SONAR array on the front of the sail (under the tarp). The boat was commissioned in 1994. With the current admistration I would not be surprised to see her get decommissioned fixing her will be a very expensive job.
-
Yep, that was a CEM* for the skippers and a CLM** for all the officers on duty at the time....
*CEM - Career Ending Move
**CLM - Career Limiting Move
-
As a former Sub sailor it is my estimation that it sucks to be that Skipper.
At the very least in addition to the entire superstructure being removed and replaced, most of the hydraulicaly operated masts probably got bent. Both Periscopes tubes penetrate the pressure hull and will need to be replaced as well as the SONAR array on the front of the sail (under the tarp). The boat was commissioned in 1994. With the current admistration I would not be surprised to see her get decommissioned fixing her will be a very expensive job.
So I suspect that the sub will have to come back to the States for a shipyard that can repair it. If it cannot submerge, I wonder if the Navy will use a lift ship like the Blue or Black Marlin, as they did with the Cole and Roberts.
-
10,000? I guess this would be the one! I hadn't even noticed myself, good thing G caught it or I might have sloughed right through this "momentous" occasion. :cool:
Send me your email addresses and I'll email the champagne. =D
Incidentally, the ship I was once on was later decommisioned due to the damage it's sonar dome received after being grounded, so it's possible this will be the case here as well. That thing is TWEAKED! :laugh:
-
So I suspect that the sub will have to come back to the States for a shipyard that can repair it. If it cannot submerge, I wonder if the Navy will use a lift ship like the Blue or Black Marlin, as they did with the Cole and Roberts.
Not knowing all the details about the damage it is hard to say but I would NOT want to dive that boat in that condition. Towing may be an option. I don't know the capabilities of the lift ships as far as if they are equiped to babysit a shut down reactor.
-
A little bondo and that will buff right out.
What's the navigable depth(ish) of the Strait?
-
A little bondo and that will buff right out.
What's the navigable depth(ish) of the Strait?
Shallow...
Like less than 250' in most places.
Having served on an SSN in the late '70s I am surprised that they operate in the straits of Hormuz at all. When we left port we had to have 600' under the keel to dive. Loosened up the rules for war I guess.
-
Does this mean that the Navy's boat insurance will go up?...or did they get that "accident forgiveness" clause?....
Somebody better call Flo about that.... =D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flo_(Progressive_Insurance) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flo_(Progressive_Insurance))
-
While you are calling Progressive to see if Allstate will forgive you, did anybody bother to check how much Earl Schieb is going to charge to do the paint job on all the rusted sections?
What kind of stuff do they paint those boats with? Cause it does not look to be too thick, but where it got rubbed off the saltwater damage seems to be creeping along at a good clip.
As for careers, I doubt that any of the oficers on either boat have much of one left. Same goes for some of the senior enlisted. It's a shame.
stay safe.
-
Better call MAACO...
-
Popped plates at the base of the sail. Some flooding resulted, no doubt. Must have been a dicey bit afterwards.
-
Yep, that was a CEM* for the skippers and a CLM** for all the officers on duty at the time....
*CEM - Career Ending Move
**CLM - Career Limiting Move
The TR had a collision one fine night with one of our accompanying cruisers (Leyte Gulf, IIRC) just before our winter '96 deployment to the Med. I came off midwatch and racked out, they started drills, including ahead-flank-to-back-emergency-full, and someone on the bridge during that evolution decided to call Leyte Gulf into close-in trailing position, about 1 mile back. Well, that became a REALLY-close-in trailing position, about contact-distance. Seems both ships' lookouts were... tired, let's say, and the phone talkers down in the Control Room said they heard a REALLY excited voice shout something about a "pop-up contact aft!" about 10 seconds beforehand. I remember being woken up by the sound of the Collision alarm, which had been leaned on by mistake by someone a few weeks prior - I thought to myself, "Okay, announce 'Disregard alarm' and let us all get back to-" and the ship shuddered. Leyte Gulf ended up with a 20-foot-long hole in her bow about 3-4 feet above the waterline, and we lost one of our aft CWIS mounts and had one of the poppet-valves for a main engine damaged - the engine I was Throttleman watchstander for our upcoming Operational Safeguards Reactor Exam, in fact, which sucked royally during said exam about a week later. Many MILLIONS of dollars of damage to both ships. Leyte Gulf had to return to port post-haste for repairs, while TR stayed out and completed our pre-Med-deployment shakedown/ORSE cruise. I looked like a chump during low-speed maneuvers during the test, since without that one valve (of 7 in the engine's steam chest), my engine went from 0-50rpm almost instantly, and at a far-different point than the other 3 engines. Fortunately, the examiners knew why that was, and we didn't get dinged for it.
I heard that both ships' OODs got letters of reprimand entered into their records, and although I never did hear what happened to Leyte Gulf's CO, ours (Capt Christenson) had been up for his first star. That went away (too bad - he was a good guy).
-
Geez... if a little fender-bender like that gets you hauled in before a board of inquiry and forced into early retirement, how did Captians Kirk and Picard keep their commands for so long and through so much?
=D
Rule of Cool
-
Popped plates at the base of the sail. Some flooding resulted, no doubt. Must have been a dicey bit afterwards.
The sail is all free-flood superstructure mounted to the pressure hull in that area. You could completly rip the sail off and not necessarily compromise the pressure hull as long as the periscopes tubes were not yanked out.
-
Geez... if a little fender-bender like that gets you hauled in before a board of inquiry and forced into early retirement, how did Captians Kirk and Picard keep their commands for so long and through so much?
=D
They had photos of their respective Starfleet Chief of Operations doing that "Taurian Tango" with a Horta.
-
The sail is all free-flood superstructure mounted to the pressure hull in that area. You could completly rip the sail off and not necessarily compromise the pressure hull as long as the periscopes tubes were not yanked out.
...and what exactly could rip the sail of submarine but leave the periscope tubes intact? =|
That's kinda like saying that the Titanic could take an iceberg gash to the side and survive unless water started coming in..... ;/
-
...and what exactly could rip the sail of submarine but leave the periscope tubes intact? =|
That's kinda like saying that the Titanic could take an iceberg gash to the side and survive unless water started coming in..... ;/
Well, according to what I saw, the Titanic COULD have taken a huge iceberg gash and survive...
The gash had to open only 3 of the airtight compartments for that to work. The iceberg they hit gashed across 5.
One expert theorized that had the Titanic hit the iceberg head on, it should have easily survived.
(No, really, I don't care about the Titanic, but my wife does. And everything I hear stays in my head...)
-
...and what exactly could rip the sail of submarine but leave the periscope tubes intact? =|
That's kinda like saying that the Titanic could take an iceberg gash to the side and survive unless water started coming in..... ;/
Probably nothing, but theoretically, if something did rip off the sail, but leave the periscopes intact, the pressure hull would not be harmed. I think that's what he meant.
-
The TR had a collision one fine night with one of our accompanying cruisers (Leyte Gulf, IIRC) just before our winter '96 deployment to the Med. I came off midwatch and racked out, they started drills, including ahead-flank-to-back-emergency-full, and someone on the bridge during that evolution decided to call Leyte Gulf into close-in trailing position, about 1 mile back. Well, that became a REALLY-close-in trailing position, about contact-distance. Seems both ships' lookouts were... tired, let's say, and the phone talkers down in the Control Room said they heard a REALLY excited voice shout something about a "pop-up contact aft!" about 10 seconds beforehand. I remember being woken up by the sound of the Collision alarm, which had been leaned on by mistake by someone a few weeks prior
Yep, I was sitting in my shop at about 0200 when that collision alarm went off. I had just about finished cussing out the moron that tripped it accidentally when I about got knocked out of my chair. Good times. I'm pretty sure we had no aft look-outs, they had been pulled because the guys in my division were running a TF-30 (F-14 motor) on the fantail test cell. They had just shut down and a couple were setting up for a nap in the test cell booth. The motor got turned around sideways by the hit. I think our CO, Christensen, took most of the blame for not ensuring his officers de-conflicted their plans. I'm pretty sure we were EMCON with no radio contact with the Leyte Gulf, we had just finished flight ops, running the motor on the test cell, and then started the engineering drills. The LG was back there still in its plane guard position from flight ops. So we went dead in the water and collected them. I think Christensen still got his star but it was a desk drive in the Pentagon and he was out. Probably was on his way to at least Vice Admiral before that. The CO and XO of the Leyte Gulf were relieved.
Later on that cruise someone layed on the chemical alarm at about 3am in the gulf. I was sucking rubber rather quickly, took them a few minutes to pass the disregard signal. I was in no mood ever again to assume an alarm was an accident. Much later, as a team leader and locker leader on a boiler ship I learned the general alarms for major fuel oil leaks are not usually accidents. Much fun though, I get to go play fireman and see a whole bunch of hard infantry Marines pretty much panic like little girls. =D Of course I felt bad during work-ups, we were in our engineering certification cycle with multiple drills and GQs for several weeks. It was about a week before I found out that the Marines attached to my division were unaware that the words being passed were drills. They thought the ship really was bursting into flames and trying to sink everyday. ;/
-
...and what exactly could rip the sail of submarine but leave the periscope tubes intact? =|
That's kinda like saying that the Titanic could take an iceberg gash to the side and survive unless water started coming in..... ;/
Kind of hard to explain unless you have an understanding of how they are put together. I undamaged and can't imagine anything that could rip off the sail and leave them undamage but so long as they still at least partially filled the hole. Actually yanking the periscopes out of the bores would be nearly impossible.
-
It was about a week before I found out that the Marines attached to my division were unaware that the words being passed were drills. They thought the ship really was bursting into flames and trying to sink everyday. ;/
Well, they are Marines afterall........
=D =D =D =D =D
-
The sail is all free-flood superstructure mounted to the pressure hull in that area. You could completly rip the sail off and not necessarily compromise the pressure hull as long as the periscopes tubes were not yanked out.
Ah, so that's how it works. Thanks for the clarification, RKL.
-
Well, they are Marines afterall........
=D =D =D =D =D
The Navy does not necessarily inspire confidence. You guys can hardly march properly, that makes it easy to believe you could (almost) lose a ship per day. =D
-
The Navy does not necessarily inspire confidence. You guys can hardly march properly, that makes it easy to believe you could (almost) lose a ship per day. =D
If the Navy could march on water, they wouldn't NEED ships.... :laugh:
-
This guy told me about a Marine he saw on liberty, he had a tee shirt on that said something like, "Marines the roughest toughest fighting force on the planet" and someone had scrawled in marker underneath, "As long as someone gives us a ride" :lol:
The there was the VN vet Marine I knew once. He was getting down on the Navy and then I said, "But you guys loved our gunfire support." he said, "Yea, yea we did." ;)