Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: zahc on April 07, 2009, 06:08:28 PM
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"Militia members most commonly associate with third-party political groups, said the report, issued Feb. 20 by the Missouri Information Analysis Center"
I knew I took that Ron Paul bumper sticker off for a reason. No telling how much trouble it may have saved me.
1. Is it time to be paranoid yet
2. How much of the first ammendment is suspended by the TSA? I know that the TSA is a magical organization with special powers, but one of the detainee's questions was "Am I legally required to answer the questions" and I would be asking the same thing (or at least wondering).
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/06/tsa-detains-official-from-ron-paul-group/
blog post with video:
http://whowhatwerewolf.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/am-i-legally-required-to-answer-this-question/
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So a Paulian and a TSA goon butted heads. And the Paulian lost.
Hmm...
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Is it time to be paranoid yet
Yes. It has been quite some while now.
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How dare he not answer the questions he was "axed."
Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.
And... the legal travel limit for undeclared cash has been $10K for-ever... In spite of inflation.
This is malicious intent to intimidate and control where no control is authorized.
The entire exchange is laughable... stupid/ign'ant TSA agents bullying this guy, and the guy not giving a simple answer. Though... the money is campaign and activism contributions from folks that hate stupid/ign'ant TSA agent-types and he was representing the people that put the cash into his possession.
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How dare he not answer the questions he was "axed."
Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.
And... the legal travel limit for undeclared cash has been $10K for-ever... In spite of inflation.
This is malicious intent to intimidate and control where no control is authorized.
The entire exchange is laughable... stupid/ign'ant TSA agents bullying this guy, and the guy not giving a simple answer. Though... the money is campaign and activism contributions from folks that hate stupid/ign'ant TSA agent-types and he was representing the people that put the cash into his possession.
Hey man, if you're in the position to fight, by all means, fight!
I'm glad someone does, and someone can.
EDIT:
What IS the TSA's legal authority, anyway?
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Thank goodness TSA is finally doing some good! =D
So a Paulian and a TSA goon butted heads. And the Paulian lost.
Hmm...
Yeah, but the Paulian was lost without his mommie and his lava lamp! At least I'm certain the Paulian was wearing his Star Wars underwear. =D
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Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.
what limit is that? internal travel has no limits i'm aware of you are wise to be able to demonstrate source of funds though. i keep copy of withdrawal slip. claim it as gambling winnings figure to talk to the irs
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Ok I know everyone here hates Ron Paul, hates his supporters, and thinks they all deserve anything they get. But the really remarkable fact, to me, is the bit about suspecting third-party canditate supporters of being radical militia. Even if you hate RP and love denigrating his followers, perhaps one day there will be a third party candidate that you do support.
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I heard the tape on the radio the other day, the "paulian" was being cooperative but asking what
law are they accusing him of breaking, asking if he is being detained.
TSA and LE were being very obtuse.
its as if they had less training and understanding of the law then the stupidest mall ninja.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaWUBgpA5WM
He asked something like "I don't understand why I'm being detained" and the cop said "we'll make you understand" it was clearly a threat, to top it off, they never charged him with anything because he was not in violation of any laws.
the recording I heard was enough to make your blood boil.
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C&SD: Undeclared means undeclared.
Just because some $12/hr flunky at TSA is astounded that I might choose to carry $5000 in cash on my person doesn't give him any grounds to consider it suspicious.
Hell, I could blow $5000 getting a new apartment set up somewhere. I could be traveling to buy a piece of art. It could be a wedding gift for a very good friend.
Simple fact is: It's below the declared legal limit and as such, none of his effing business.
Also: Checks aren't money. They are private financial instruments. Going through them and counting them as part of the $4300 in this situation is an unwarranted invasion of ones' papers and effects.
This man gets more and more respect from me the more I think about this. He made these low paid, low skill drones with way too much authority actually THINK about what they were empowered to do in the line of work.
This hits close to home for me. I never travel with less than $500 cash on me. I don't like depending upon the promise of a credit card to be available when I'm trying to eat or put a roof over my head hundreds of miles from home. Relying upon the personal discretion of a TSA-tard on what is an "acceptable" amount of money to have on your person is in direct conflict with the letter of the law.
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they get right nosey about anyone with lots of cash his status politically probably elicited less suspicion than a wad of presumably small bills 5 k makes a pretty good knot.
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the cop said "we'll make you understand" it was clearly a threat,
tsa does not equal cop cops showing up equaled him going on his way did he miss his flight?
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there is no declared limit within the usa and large sums of cash have always got you extra attention from the cops even in the 70's i spent a couple days in pw county while they tried to figure what to do to me about the cash they caught me with. they hada settle for bringing it to the irs's attention
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what the cops/tsa did was outrageous!
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C&SD: Undeclared means undeclared.
Just because some $12/hr flunky at TSA is astounded that I might choose to carry $5000 in cash on my person doesn't give him any grounds to consider it suspicious.
Hell, I could blow $5000 getting a new apartment set up somewhere. I could be traveling to buy a piece of art. It could be a wedding gift for a very good friend.
Simple fact is: It's below the declared legal limit and as such, none of his effing business.
Also: Checks aren't money. They are private financial instruments. Going through them and counting them as part of the $4300 in this situation is an unwarranted invasion of ones' papers and effects.
This man gets more and more respect from me the more I think about this. He made these low paid, low skill drones with way too much authority actually THINK about what they were empowered to do in the line of work.
This hits close to home for me. I never travel with less than $500 cash on me. I don't like depending upon the promise of a credit card to be available when I'm trying to eat or put a roof over my head hundreds of miles from home. Relying upon the personal discretion of a TSA-tard on what is an "acceptable" amount of money to have on your person is in direct conflict with the letter of the law.
100% correct afaik, this tape is really disturbing and is a clear abuse of authority under color of law
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what the cops/tsa did was outrageous!
what did the cops do? besides release him in time to catch his flight
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what did the cops do? besides release him in time to catch his flight
They threatened to arrest him and were in the process of doing so right up until it became apparent that the man had "connections" with a US Representative and a (somewhat) well organized campaign machine. Then they backed off after they had that information.
Were it just plain old me pulling the exact same thing? Probably different outcome.
The cops/TSA/whatever overreached their authority. That's what is outrageous.
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what did the cops do? besides release him in time to catch his flight
They detained him, berated him and when he wouldn't play along with their fascist power play they threatened him.
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are tsa cops now? i listened to the tape and they told him they had sent for the cops.
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Guys. Let's take stuff in proportion, shall we?
I mean. I don't think these guys should have acted in this manner.
But come on. It's not an act of terrible, evil oppression. This guy was held up for 30 minutes. There are far more disgusting things you can pin on the government without blowing every tiny incident out of proportion.
I love the CFL, God bless their radical hearts, but that sounds like they're pulling for donations.
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Ok I know everyone here hates Ron Paul, hates his supporters, and thinks they all deserve anything they get.
Having a whiny little girl moment or something? Jesus...
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When two fools get in a pissing contest they all deserve anything they get.
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I knew I took that Ron Paul bumper sticker off for a reason. No telling how much trouble it may have saved me.
1. Is it time to be paranoid yet
2. How much of the first ammendment is suspended by the TSA? I know that the TSA is a magical organization with special powers, but one of the detainee's questions was "Am I legally required to answer the questions" and I would be asking the same thing (or at least wondering).
1. Has been for a while.
2. Not much, but the TSA doesn't think so. They really do think they're a magical group with special abilities. Hell, I was 'detained' because I told them that no, they could not make me power on my laptop and show them what was on it. Actually, I'd really prefer not letting my laptop out of my line of sight. Course, it did take me a while to explain to them that the laptop in question was property of the US government and actively had classified information on it (OIF info, dealing with troop and equipment movements). After they finally understood that I was very willing to call the FBI to have THEM detained, they settled for giving me the full treatment. But my friggin laptop remained in my line of sight the entire time.
Apparently folks with govt ID, on govt orders, with the ticket paid by the govt and in possession of classified material are a high terrorist risk. =D
I think they do have a "smart***" database, as I've been flagged for a random search each and every time I've flown since.
Only other good TSA story I have is an old one. Remember back when Guard guys were still guarding airports? After the TSA came online, they started phasing it out. Anyways, shortly after TSA took over at an unspecified airport, the NG guys were still there. Some of the brighter scumbags figured out if you kicked the metal detector or whatever, you could make it go off. Sure enough, there after, whenever a very attractive young lady would walk through, it would go off like clockwork.
This one time, a very well endowed young lady was positively beaming just prior to getting through the metal detector. Why? Her boyfriend was in a local NG unit and was on shift. Naturally, the soldiers keeping on eye on the gate radio'd him that his lady friend was coming through. Some other soldiers that knew her also started wandering over. Well, metal detector went off, and the TSA guy decides to give her a very thorough, very hands on search. She was in tears and highly upset, and he was very focused on his hands on search. Neither noticed a very large, angry, and well armed soldier walking up until he put the stock end of his M16 into the back of the guy's head. The crowd cheered, the rest of the soldiers started assuming low ready weapon positions, and the TSA folks tried not to make any sudden movements.
=D
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Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.
And... the legal travel limit for undeclared cash has been $10K for-ever... In spite of inflation.
Legal travel limit? $10,000?
What legal travel limit? He was traveling within the United States. Where is there any law or regulation limiting how much money I can carry with me when traveling between two states? I believe the $10,000 limit applies only to what you have to declare when entering the United States from another country.
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The Homeland Security agency further explained that carrying large amounts of cash through airport checkpoints "may be investigated by law enforcement authorities if criminal activity is suspected."
Since they clearly knew the money was campaign funds, just how can there ever have been any question of criminal activity?
Besides, since when is TSA empowered to investigate crimes?
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Guys. Let's take stuff in proportion, shall we?
I mean. I don't think these guys should have acted in this manner.
But come on. It's not an act of terrible, evil oppression. This guy was held up for 30 minutes. There are far more disgusting things you can pin on the government without blowing every tiny incident out of proportion.
I love the CFL, God bless their radical hearts, but that sounds like they're pulling for donations.
Thirty minutes' delay will cause most folks to miss their flight.
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Since they clearly knew the money was campaign funds, just how can there ever have been any question of criminal activity?
how did they clearly know that? when the young man was asked if they were campaign funds and he deigned to answer he heard "you were free to go". the other tsa jerked his chain 5 mins longer and then he made his flight
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Guys. Let's take stuff in proportion, shall we?
I mean. I don't think these guys should have acted in this manner.
But come on. It's not an act of terrible, evil oppression. This guy was held up for 30 minutes.
He shouldn't have been held up at ALL.
Ok, so imagine:
You're walking down the street, legally concealing your weapon (we'll assume you're licensed or otherwise legally allowed to do so) and you are detained for 30 mins while the cops decide what to do with you.
You have not broken any law. It's obvious after a cursory examination of the situation that you have not broken any law. Any delay other than a few moments is uncalled for, and grounds for "whining" as it were.
If any authorities (fake ones like TSA or real ones like police) have no probable cause for comission of a crime, this shouldn't happen. Period.
I guess infringements are OK as long as they don't last too long, now?
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He shouldn't have been held up at ALL
He was a Ron Paul voter! Not only should he have been hassled, beaten, and then tarred and feathered, TSA should have made him perform a week of community service picking up trash since his own house and yard is a pig pen.
Ok, so imagine:
You're walking down the street, legally concealing your weapon (we'll assume you're licensed or otherwise legally allowed to do so) and you are detained for 30 mins while the cops decide what to do with you.
You have not broken any law. It's obvious after a cursory examination of the situation that you have not broken any law. Any delay other than a few moments is uncalled for, and grounds for "whining" as it were.
Don't have to imagine. Happened to me last October in Indianapolis.
I did not whimper and whine like some Wookie suiter clining to my bong and science fiction novels. I just open carry everytime I'm in Indianapolis. =D
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He was a Ron Paul voter! Not only should he have been hassled, beaten, and then tarred and feathered, TSA should have made him perform a week of community service picking up trash since his own house and yard is a pig pen.
Don't have to imagine. Happened to me last October in Indianapolis.
I did not whimper and whine like some Wookie suiter clining to my bong and science fiction novels. I just open carry everytime I'm in Indianapolis. =D
YGBSM, not this tired old crap again?
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The Great and Noble Crusade to rid this planet of Paulians is never over!
I will not rest until everyone one of them bathes, shaves, gets out of mom's basement and picks up their yard!
I have much work to do.
Paulian Police=> :police:
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The Great and Noble Crusade to rid this planet of Paulians is never over!
I will not rest until everyone one of them bathes, shaves, gets out of mom's basement and picks up their yard!
I have much work to do.
Paulian Police TSA Sturmgoon=> :police:
Fixed..... :P
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He shouldn't have been held up at ALL.
If any authorities (fake ones like TSA or real ones like police) have no probable cause for comission of a crime, this shouldn't happen. Period.
I guess infringements are OK as long as they don't last too long, now?
..you misunderstand me entirely.
Again:
I think the Campaign for Liberty has been the best consequence of this election cycle.
I think Ron Paul his supporters are awesome people. Most specifically I think Ron Paul is awesome.
I don't think protesting in wookie suits, staging giant rallies, and protesting the Fox News headquarters doesn't make these people faily, nor does the fact some of them are nerds. I think it makes them awesome. I think nerds are a superior species to non-nerds, and I'd trade six people in three-piece suits who want to be all conventional and boring and never rock the boat for one CFL precinct captain.
I think Ron Paul was the best political candidate to ever seek any Presidential nomination of the Democrats or the Republicans in the last 44 years.
I think the very existence of the TSA is unconstitutional.
I even think this was a disgusting show of thuggery, and the guy abused should have sued them for every dime he can squeeze out of them.
However, this is just not really newsworthy because worse abuses happen every day. There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database, there are people who are doing 5-year prison terms because they were possessing the wrong sort of item, there are people shot and killed in no-knock raids, and so on, and so forth, et ad nauseam.
Don't you think some guy getting detained for 30 minutes and NOT missing his flight is sort of minor on the scheme of things?
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MB:
Well, yeah, in the long run we're all dead anyways.
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MB:
Well, yeah, in the long run we're all dead anyways.
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I really want to slap people who say things like this.
It's this sort of crap that will cause my children to live in a world worse than the one I was born into.
For that, I am ashamed (even though I've fought it all the way).
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The Great and Noble Crusade to rid this planet of Paulians is never over!
I will not rest until everyone one of them bathes, shaves, gets out of mom's basement and picks up their yard!
I have much work to do.
Paulian Police=> :police:
Would you stow it? There are more important issues than that. Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?
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Would you stow it? There are more important issues than that. Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?
Does the missus drink Tang? :angel:
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Would you stow it? There are more important issues than that. Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?
Namaste Yoga and Cheetos.
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Would you stow it? There are more important issues than that. Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?
Do you usually pick up women at the Orange Julius stand?.... =|
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Jamis, we don't care why your weiner is orange. Not our problem. Go back to your basement, or go below decks, whichever you prefer.
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Weiner is orange?
Vitamin C poisoning? Girlfriend is trying a new look? Cheap orange underwear on sale at Target? You've been highlighting a lot at work?
Trust me, I am a doctor.
And my diagnosis is raving Wookiesuiteritis! The cure: El Tejon berating them for being fat, lazy and Libertarian--all without permit.
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There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database,
there are? who?
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However, this is just not really newsworthy because worse abuses happen every day. There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database, there are people who are doing 5-year prison terms because they were possessing the wrong sort of item, there are people shot and killed in no-knock raids, and so on, and so forth, et ad nauseam.
The difference is simply that this time there's a record of their conduct.
There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database,
there are? who?
No-one knows for sure, because they won't release that information.
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There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database,
there are? who?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_list#False_positives_and_other_controversial_cases
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is there someone who actually can't fly? as opposed to getting subjected to extra searches and checks before flying
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Yes. David Nelson, for one. So who's David Nelson? Who knows? Does it matter to all of the "wrong" David Nelsons?
http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg26610.html (http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg26610.html)
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er no or at least no to the folks in the article you linked to