Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: zahc on April 07, 2009, 06:08:28 PM

Title: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: zahc on April 07, 2009, 06:08:28 PM

Quote
"Militia members most commonly associate with third-party political groups, said the report, issued Feb. 20 by the Missouri Information Analysis Center"

I knew I took that Ron Paul bumper sticker off for a reason. No telling how much trouble it may have saved me.

1. Is it time to be paranoid yet

2. How much of the first ammendment is suspended by the TSA? I know that the TSA is a magical organization with special powers, but one of the detainee's questions was "Am I legally required to answer the questions" and I would be asking the same thing (or at least wondering).

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/06/tsa-detains-official-from-ron-paul-group/
blog post with video:
http://whowhatwerewolf.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/am-i-legally-required-to-answer-this-question/
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 07, 2009, 06:11:07 PM
So a Paulian and a TSA goon butted heads.  And the Paulian lost.

Hmm... 
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Standing Wolf on April 07, 2009, 06:32:33 PM
Quote
Is it time to be paranoid yet

Yes. It has been quite some while now.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 07, 2009, 06:40:36 PM
How dare he not answer the questions he was "axed."

Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.

And... the legal travel limit for undeclared cash has been $10K for-ever... In spite of inflation.

This is malicious intent to intimidate and control where no control is authorized.

The entire exchange is laughable... stupid/ign'ant TSA agents bullying this guy, and the guy not giving a simple answer.  Though... the money is campaign and activism contributions from folks that hate stupid/ign'ant TSA agent-types and he was representing the people that put the cash into his possession.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Nitrogen on April 07, 2009, 06:49:29 PM
How dare he not answer the questions he was "axed."

Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.

And... the legal travel limit for undeclared cash has been $10K for-ever... In spite of inflation.

This is malicious intent to intimidate and control where no control is authorized.

The entire exchange is laughable... stupid/ign'ant TSA agents bullying this guy, and the guy not giving a simple answer.  Though... the money is campaign and activism contributions from folks that hate stupid/ign'ant TSA agent-types and he was representing the people that put the cash into his possession.

Hey man, if you're in the position to fight, by all means, fight!

I'm glad someone does, and someone can.

EDIT:
What IS the TSA's legal authority, anyway?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: El Tejon on April 07, 2009, 06:57:10 PM
Thank goodness TSA is finally doing some good! =D

Quote
So a Paulian and a TSA goon butted heads.  And the Paulian lost.

Hmm...

Yeah, but the Paulian was lost without his mommie and his lava lamp!  At least I'm certain the Paulian was wearing his Star Wars underwear. =D
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 07, 2009, 07:12:20 PM
Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.



what limit is that? internal travel has no limits i'm aware of  you are wise to be able to demonstrate source of funds though. i keep copy of withdrawal slip. claim it as gambling winnings figure to talk to the irs

Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: zahc on April 07, 2009, 07:21:13 PM
Ok I know everyone here hates Ron Paul, hates his supporters, and thinks they all deserve anything they get. But the really remarkable fact, to me, is the bit about suspecting third-party canditate supporters of being radical militia. Even if you hate RP and love denigrating his followers, perhaps one day there will be a third party candidate that you do support.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: gunsmith on April 07, 2009, 07:28:18 PM
I heard the tape on the radio the other day, the "paulian" was being cooperative but asking what
law are they accusing him of breaking, asking if he is being detained.
TSA and LE were being very obtuse.
its as if they had less training and understanding of the law then the stupidest mall ninja.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaWUBgpA5WM

He asked something like "I don't understand why I'm being detained" and the cop said "we'll make you understand"  it was clearly a threat, to top it off, they never charged him with anything because he was not in violation of any laws.
the recording I heard was enough to make your blood boil.

Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 07, 2009, 07:31:22 PM
C&SD:  Undeclared means undeclared.

Just because some $12/hr flunky at TSA is astounded that I might choose to carry $5000 in cash on my person doesn't give him any grounds to consider it suspicious.

Hell, I could blow $5000 getting a new apartment set up somewhere.  I could be traveling to buy a piece of art.  It could be a wedding gift for a very good friend.  

Simple fact is:  It's below the declared legal limit and as such, none of his effing business.

Also:  Checks aren't money.  They are private financial instruments.  Going through them and counting them as part of the $4300 in this situation is an unwarranted invasion of ones' papers and effects.  

This man gets more and more respect from me the more I think about this.  He made these low paid, low skill drones with way too much authority actually THINK about what they were empowered to do in the line of work.

This hits close to home for me.  I never travel with less than $500 cash on me.  I don't like depending upon the promise of a credit card to be available when I'm trying to eat or put a roof over my head hundreds of miles from home.  Relying upon the personal discretion of a TSA-tard on what is an "acceptable" amount of money to have on your person is in direct conflict with the letter of the law.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 07, 2009, 07:33:04 PM
they get right nosey about anyone with lots of cash  his status politically probably elicited less suspicion than a wad of presumably small bills  5 k makes a pretty good knot.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 07, 2009, 07:34:41 PM
the cop said "we'll make you understand"  it was clearly a threat,


tsa does not equal cop   cops showing up equaled him going on his way  did he miss his flight?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 07, 2009, 07:37:39 PM
there is no declared limit within the usa   and large sums of cash have always got you extra attention from the cops  even in the 70's  i spent a couple days in pw county while they tried to figure what to do to me about the cash they caught me with. they hada settle for bringing it to the irs's attention
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: gunsmith on April 07, 2009, 07:41:38 PM
what the cops/tsa did was outrageous!
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: gunsmith on April 07, 2009, 07:44:41 PM
C&SD:  Undeclared means undeclared.

Just because some $12/hr flunky at TSA is astounded that I might choose to carry $5000 in cash on my person doesn't give him any grounds to consider it suspicious.

Hell, I could blow $5000 getting a new apartment set up somewhere.  I could be traveling to buy a piece of art.  It could be a wedding gift for a very good friend.  

Simple fact is:  It's below the declared legal limit and as such, none of his effing business.

Also:  Checks aren't money.  They are private financial instruments.  Going through them and counting them as part of the $4300 in this situation is an unwarranted invasion of ones' papers and effects.  

This man gets more and more respect from me the more I think about this.  He made these low paid, low skill drones with way too much authority actually THINK about what they were empowered to do in the line of work.

This hits close to home for me.  I never travel with less than $500 cash on me.  I don't like depending upon the promise of a credit card to be available when I'm trying to eat or put a roof over my head hundreds of miles from home.  Relying upon the personal discretion of a TSA-tard on what is an "acceptable" amount of money to have on your person is in direct conflict with the letter of the law.

100% correct afaik, this tape is really disturbing and is a clear abuse of authority under color of law
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 07, 2009, 07:46:25 PM
what the cops/tsa did was outrageous!


what did the cops do?  besides release him in time to catch his flight
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 07, 2009, 07:49:32 PM
what did the cops do?  besides release him in time to catch his flight

They threatened to arrest him and were in the process of doing so right up until it became apparent that the man had "connections" with a US Representative and a (somewhat) well organized campaign machine.  Then they backed off after they had that information.

Were it just plain old me pulling the exact same thing?  Probably different outcome.

The cops/TSA/whatever overreached their authority.  That's what is outrageous.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: gunsmith on April 07, 2009, 07:57:36 PM
what did the cops do?  besides release him in time to catch his flight

They detained him, berated him and when he wouldn't play along with their fascist power play they threatened him.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 07, 2009, 08:15:34 PM
are tsa cops now? i listened to the tape and they told him they had sent for the cops.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: MicroBalrog on April 07, 2009, 08:42:26 PM
Guys. Let's take stuff in proportion, shall we?

I mean. I don't think these guys should have acted in this manner.

But come on. It's not an act of terrible, evil oppression. This guy was held up for 30 minutes. There are far more disgusting things you can pin on the government without blowing every tiny incident out of proportion.

I love the CFL, God bless their radical hearts, but that sounds like they're pulling for donations.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: K Frame on April 07, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
Ok I know everyone here hates Ron Paul, hates his supporters, and thinks they all deserve anything they get.

Having a whiny little girl moment or something? Jesus...
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on April 07, 2009, 08:57:57 PM
When two fools get in a pissing contest they all deserve anything they get.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: RevDisk on April 07, 2009, 09:17:09 PM
I knew I took that Ron Paul bumper sticker off for a reason. No telling how much trouble it may have saved me.

1. Is it time to be paranoid yet

2. How much of the first ammendment is suspended by the TSA? I know that the TSA is a magical organization with special powers, but one of the detainee's questions was "Am I legally required to answer the questions" and I would be asking the same thing (or at least wondering).

1.  Has been for a while.
2.  Not much, but the TSA doesn't think so.   They really do think they're a magical group with special abilities.  Hell, I was 'detained' because I told them that no, they could not make me power on my laptop and show them what was on it.  Actually, I'd really prefer not letting my laptop out of my line of sight.  Course, it did take me a while to explain to them that the laptop in question was property of the US government and actively had classified information on it (OIF info, dealing with troop and equipment movements).  After they finally understood that I was very willing to call the FBI to have THEM detained, they settled for giving me the full treatment.  But my friggin laptop remained in my line of sight the entire time. 

Apparently folks with govt ID, on govt orders, with the ticket paid by the govt and in possession of classified material are a high terrorist risk.  =D
 
I think they do have a "smart***" database, as I've been flagged for a random search each and every time I've flown since. 



Only other good TSA story I have is an old one.  Remember back when Guard guys were still guarding airports?  After the TSA came online, they started phasing it out.  Anyways, shortly after TSA took over at an unspecified airport, the NG guys were still there.  Some of the brighter scumbags figured out if you kicked the metal detector or whatever, you could make it go off.  Sure enough, there after, whenever a very attractive young lady would walk through, it would go off like clockwork. 

This one time, a very well endowed young lady was positively beaming just prior to getting through the metal detector.  Why?  Her boyfriend was in a local NG unit and was on shift.  Naturally, the soldiers keeping on eye on the gate radio'd him that his lady friend was coming through.  Some other soldiers that knew her also started wandering over.  Well, metal detector went off, and the TSA guy decides to give her a very thorough, very hands on search.  She was in tears and highly upset, and he was very focused on his hands on search.  Neither noticed a very large, angry, and well armed soldier walking up until he put the stock end of his M16 into the back of the guy's head.  The crowd cheered, the rest of the soldiers started assuming low ready weapon positions, and the TSA folks tried not to make any sudden movements.

 =D
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Hawkmoon on April 07, 2009, 10:49:35 PM
Hilarious that they're having a kitten over less than $5K, when the legal travel limit is $10K.

And... the legal travel limit for undeclared cash has been $10K for-ever... In spite of inflation.

Legal travel limit? $10,000?

What legal travel limit? He was traveling within the United States. Where is there any law or regulation limiting how much money I can carry with me when traveling between two states? I believe the $10,000 limit applies only to what you have to declare when entering the United States from another country.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: ilbob on April 08, 2009, 09:19:00 AM
Quote
The Homeland Security agency further explained that carrying large amounts of cash through airport checkpoints "may be investigated by law enforcement authorities if criminal activity is suspected."

Since they clearly knew the money was campaign funds, just how can there ever have been any question of criminal activity?

Besides, since when is TSA empowered to investigate crimes?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: roo_ster on April 08, 2009, 10:09:59 AM
Guys. Let's take stuff in proportion, shall we?

I mean. I don't think these guys should have acted in this manner.

But come on. It's not an act of terrible, evil oppression. This guy was held up for 30 minutes. There are far more disgusting things you can pin on the government without blowing every tiny incident out of proportion.

I love the CFL, God bless their radical hearts, but that sounds like they're pulling for donations.

Thirty minutes' delay will cause most folks to miss their flight.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 08, 2009, 03:21:58 PM
Since they clearly knew the money was campaign funds, just how can there ever have been any question of criminal activity?


how did they clearly know that?  when the young man was asked if they were campaign funds and he deigned to answer he heard "you were free to go". the other tsa jerked his chain 5 mins longer and then he made his flight
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Nitrogen on April 10, 2009, 05:10:42 AM
Guys. Let's take stuff in proportion, shall we?

I mean. I don't think these guys should have acted in this manner.

But come on. It's not an act of terrible, evil oppression. This guy was held up for 30 minutes.

He shouldn't have been held up at ALL.

Ok, so imagine:
You're walking down the street, legally concealing your weapon (we'll assume you're licensed or otherwise legally allowed to do so) and you are detained for 30 mins while the cops decide what to do with you.

You have not broken any law.  It's obvious after a cursory examination of the situation that you have not broken any law.  Any delay other than a few moments is uncalled for, and grounds for "whining" as it were.

If any authorities (fake ones like TSA or real ones like police) have no probable cause for comission of a crime, this shouldn't happen.  Period.

I guess infringements are OK as long as they don't last too long, now?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: El Tejon on April 10, 2009, 07:31:48 AM
Quote
He shouldn't have been held up at ALL

He was a Ron Paul voter!  Not only should he have been hassled, beaten, and then tarred and feathered, TSA should have made him perform a week of community service picking up trash since his own house and yard is a pig pen.

Quote
Ok, so imagine:
You're walking down the street, legally concealing your weapon (we'll assume you're licensed or otherwise legally allowed to do so) and you are detained for 30 mins while the cops decide what to do with you.

You have not broken any law.  It's obvious after a cursory examination of the situation that you have not broken any law.  Any delay other than a few moments is uncalled for, and grounds for "whining" as it were.


Don't have to imagine.  Happened to me last October in Indianapolis.

I did not whimper and whine like some Wookie suiter clining to my bong and science fiction novels.  I just open carry everytime I'm in Indianapolis. =D

Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 10, 2009, 07:38:24 AM
He was a Ron Paul voter!  Not only should he have been hassled, beaten, and then tarred and feathered, TSA should have made him perform a week of community service picking up trash since his own house and yard is a pig pen.

Don't have to imagine.  Happened to me last October in Indianapolis.

I did not whimper and whine like some Wookie suiter clining to my bong and science fiction novels.  I just open carry everytime I'm in Indianapolis. =D



YGBSM, not this tired old crap again?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: El Tejon on April 10, 2009, 07:48:52 AM
The Great and Noble Crusade to rid this planet of Paulians is never over!

I will not rest until everyone one of them bathes, shaves, gets out of mom's basement and picks up their yard!

I have much work to do.

Paulian Police=> :police:
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: seeker_two on April 10, 2009, 08:22:30 AM
The Great and Noble Crusade to rid this planet of Paulians is never over!

I will not rest until everyone one of them bathes, shaves, gets out of mom's basement and picks up their yard!

I have much work to do.

Paulian Police TSA Sturmgoon=> :police:

Fixed.....  :P
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: MicroBalrog on April 10, 2009, 09:27:05 AM
He shouldn't have been held up at ALL.


If any authorities (fake ones like TSA or real ones like police) have no probable cause for comission of a crime, this shouldn't happen.  Period.

I guess infringements are OK as long as they don't last too long, now?

..you misunderstand me entirely.

Again:

I think the Campaign for Liberty has been the best consequence of this election cycle.

I think Ron Paul  his supporters are awesome people. Most specifically I think Ron Paul is awesome.

I don't think protesting in wookie suits, staging giant rallies, and protesting the Fox News headquarters doesn't make these people faily, nor does the fact some of them are nerds. I think it makes them awesome. I think nerds are a superior species to non-nerds, and I'd trade six people in three-piece suits who want to be all conventional and boring and never rock the boat for one CFL precinct captain.

I think Ron Paul was the best political candidate to ever seek any Presidential nomination of the Democrats or the Republicans in the last 44 years.

I think the very existence of the TSA is unconstitutional.

I even think this was a disgusting show of thuggery, and the guy abused should have sued them for every dime he can squeeze out of them.

However, this is just not really newsworthy because worse abuses happen every day. There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database, there are people who are doing 5-year prison terms because they were possessing the wrong sort of item, there are people shot and killed in no-knock raids, and so on, and so forth, et ad nauseam.

Don't you think some guy getting detained for 30 minutes and NOT missing his flight is sort of minor on the scheme of things?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: roo_ster on April 10, 2009, 10:01:01 AM
MB:

Well, yeah, in the long run we're all dead anyways.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: makattak on April 10, 2009, 10:07:44 AM
MB:

Well, yeah, in the long run we're all dead anyways.

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I really want to slap people who say things like this.

It's this sort of crap that will cause my children to live in a world worse than the one I was born into.

For that, I am ashamed (even though I've fought it all the way).
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: Jamisjockey on April 10, 2009, 11:25:22 AM
The Great and Noble Crusade to rid this planet of Paulians is never over!

I will not rest until everyone one of them bathes, shaves, gets out of mom's basement and picks up their yard!

I have much work to do.

Paulian Police=> :police:

Would you stow it?  There are more important issues than that.  Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on April 10, 2009, 12:09:08 PM
Would you stow it?  There are more important issues than that.  Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?

Does the missus drink Tang?   :angel:
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: brasshammer on April 10, 2009, 12:09:38 PM
Quote
Would you stow it?  There are more important issues than that.  Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?
 
 

Namaste Yoga and Cheetos.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: seeker_two on April 10, 2009, 03:00:40 PM
Would you stow it?  There are more important issues than that.  Can you tell me why my weiner is orange?

Do you usually pick up women at the Orange Julius stand?....  =|
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: RocketMan on April 10, 2009, 07:14:29 PM
Jamis, we don't care why your weiner is orange.  Not our problem.  Go back to your basement, or go below decks, whichever you prefer.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: El Tejon on April 10, 2009, 07:54:01 PM
Weiner is orange?

Vitamin C poisoning?  Girlfriend is trying a new look?  Cheap orange underwear on sale at Target?  You've been highlighting a lot at work?

Trust me, I am a doctor.

And my diagnosis is raving Wookiesuiteritis!  The cure:  El Tejon berating them for being fat, lazy and Libertarian--all without permit.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 10, 2009, 10:26:25 PM
There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database,


there are? who?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: doczinn on April 10, 2009, 11:06:45 PM
Quote
However, this is just not really newsworthy because worse abuses happen every day. There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database, there are people who are doing 5-year prison terms because they were possessing the wrong sort of item, there are people shot and killed in no-knock raids, and so on, and so forth, et ad nauseam.
The difference is simply that this time there's a record of their conduct.

Quote
There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database,
Quote
there are? who?
No-one knows for sure, because they won't release that information.
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: MicroBalrog on April 10, 2009, 11:20:33 PM
There are people in the US who are not allowed to fly at all because their name lights up on a terrorist database,


there are? who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_list#False_positives_and_other_controversial_cases
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 10, 2009, 11:24:31 PM
is there someone who actually can't fly? as opposed to getting subjected to extra searches and checks before flying
?
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: DJJ on April 11, 2009, 12:02:28 AM
Yes. David Nelson, for one. So who's David Nelson? Who knows? Does it matter to all of the "wrong" David Nelsons?

http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg26610.html (http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg26610.html)
Title: Re: TSA detains Ron Paul organization member as suspected millitia
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on April 11, 2009, 01:52:23 AM
er no or at least no to the folks in the article you linked to