Post by: zahc on November 29, 2005, 10:59:31 AM
The typical adult human has about 5L=5000cc of blood, so if you injected 5cc of 100% ethanol (good luck finding it), would that just give you a BAC of about .01%? Or would it like, kill you or something? In other words is there a difference between drinking to a BAC of .01% or injecting .01% alcohol?
And would you fail a breathalyzer test?
DO NOT try this, I was just wondering.
Post by: 280plus on November 29, 2005, 11:05:29 AM
Something tells me if you could do it and live a lot of people would be doing it.
People are like that.
Post by: Azrael256 on November 29, 2005, 11:10:33 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on November 29, 2005, 11:13:15 AM
The alcohol in a drink is absorbed directly through the stomach lining and intestinal wall in it's unaltered form (i.e. it enters the bloodstream without being digested or otherwise "processed" by enzymes, bacteria, or other digestive 'stuff'). I don't see why an injection of an equivalent amount of ethyl alcohol would not serve the same purpose as drinking it, although I would rather have mine in the form of a good, smooth amber or well-prepared bourbon and Coke.
Brad
Post by: Robert Sears on November 29, 2005, 01:15:33 PM
I have to partially disagree with you. When I 1st found out I was diabetic the doctor and nutritionist(sp?) told me to limit my intake of alcohol because it breaks down straight in to sugar. So alcohol does get digested but also absorbed directly.
Bob
Post by: Brad Johnson on November 29, 2005, 02:28:52 PM
Some does indeed get converted into glucose, which is why pure ethyl alcohol has appx 160 calories per oz, or about 95 calories per 1.5 oz (shot) of 80 proof spirits. Although the body can process only so much alcohol per hour into glucose, the conversion is rapid and direct. So rapid, in fact, that it is second only to ingestion of raw sugar in terms of rapidity of effects on blood glucose levels.
Brad
Post by: Fatcat on November 29, 2005, 03:01:39 PM
Post by: MillCreek on November 29, 2005, 07:04:25 PM
Post by: Sindawe on November 29, 2005, 09:30:25 PM
Quote
The reagent grade was about as chemically pure as it could possibly be made, and was very, very expensive.
Yeppers. When I toiled in the Bloodmines of Boulder in the '90s, we used to buy the reagent grade stuff. First in the one gallon volumes, then in five gallon jugs since we went through so much of it in a week. The bean counters used to cry about the expense. You should have heard them scream when one of the experimental processes required 55 gallon drums of it. 
Shooting up EtOH? No thanks, I'll pass. I prefer to consume my EtOH in a more "natural" form. As yeast poop, aka beer or mead.
Post by: brimic on November 29, 2005, 09:39:53 PM
The 200 proof 'absolute grade' ethanol that we use at work is pretty expensive- most of it is in taxes- about $28/gallon, we have processes that use 1000 gallons or more of it- heaven
I would think that it would have to be very dilute to put in an IV. If put in straight, it would no doubt burn like an SOB and it might cause shock or cardiac arrest. I've been shot up with morphine once after sitting in the ER for about 6 hours after a car accident- After they injected it, I could feel it travel up my arm- kind of a warm pleasant feeling, I would imagine pure ethanol would be like fire.
Post by: MillCreek on November 30, 2005, 07:41:31 AM
Post by: Gewehr98 on November 30, 2005, 09:10:59 AM
That stuff is wicked. I sent a couple of my airmen back into one of the rooms to turn it around for incoming samples, and they got the bright idea to turn off the air cabinets in the fume hoods, so they could scrub them down longer before everything evaporated.
That was around 0800. By 1130 I was starting to wonder how they were doing, because they hadn't called me to let me know they were done. By 1200, I donned my Tyvek bunny suit, overbooties, hair net, and mask, and progressed through the air showers towards the clean room in question.
I couldn't see the two guys inside the room as I stood outside the door, they weren't visible through the window!
I burst into the room, and there they were, lying on the floor, propped up against the fume hood legs, laughing their butts off. Each of them looked like a piece of railroad rolling stock graffiti. They had taken the black Sharpie markers we used to label sample bags, and scribbled artwork and verbage all over each other, including their faces, eyeglasses, Tyvek bunny suits, and so forth. Each had a nicely-drawn moustache and goatee on their faces, extra eyes drawn on their Tyvek hats, you name it.
They had cleaned the rooms, alright. When they rinsed out the fume hoods with the 200 proof ethanol, they stuck their heads inside the fume hoods to see where they were rinsing. Without the air cabinets operating and pulling air through the hoods, my two airmen were inhaling ethanol fumes without benefit of dilution.
I had to get them on their feet, out of their clean room garb, and escort them to the break room, where they spent a couple hours drying out before I sent them home for the day.
When we decommissioned the lab in 1999, several gallons of that 200 proof ethanol made its way into the 55 gallon drum of jungle juice we mixed up for the final closing party. Wow!!!
The rest went to the PRK state crime lab for use in their own lab processes.
Post by: K Frame on November 30, 2005, 09:19:48 AM
It would need to be heavily diluted.
Post by: Azrael256 on November 30, 2005, 09:45:09 AM
Quote
it would do a lot of localized damage to tissue and cells
I was thinking the same thing. While your total BAC wouldn't get that high from the 5cc dose, it wouldn't be distributed around the body like it would if you had swallowed it, so whatever was near the injection site would get a hefty direct hit.
Post by: 280plus on November 30, 2005, 10:06:23 AM
Now THAT'S PRICELESS...
LMAO...
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on November 30, 2005, 10:41:47 AM
Anyway, there was a truck strike back in the '70s, and their shipment got stuck somewhere in Minnesota during the winter. The Teamsters just parked their trucks and waited.
When the shipment finally did come in, all the five gallon cans were about 2" low.
Post by: Robert Sears on November 30, 2005, 01:50:51 PM
Why did you have to use the 200 proof. Wouldn't the 99.9% Reagent grade worked just as well"
Bob
Post by: grampster on November 30, 2005, 02:03:23 PM
You are welcome at my house for the 4th of July celebration ANYTIME!
Post by: Gewehr98 on November 30, 2005, 02:38:51 PM
The laboratory was one that did forensics down to the molecular level. The impurities in the 99.9% reagent grade ETOH would cause sample contamination, something we couldn't afford.
All labware used in each clean room was used once, then discarded. Be they pipettes, tripours, centrifuge cones, forceps, scalpels, scissors, glass stir rods, or microscope slides, they were bagged carefully and discarded once that sample set was done. The same thing went for our Tyvek clean room garments. All reagents used and excess reagents not used in processing, to include the ETOH, acetone and bromoform were also discarded after each sample set. The only equipment we re-used were millipore vacuum filter apparatus and petri dishes for low-temperature ashers. These were scrubbed in a strong Radiac Wash solution, rinsed with de-ionized water, and baked dry in a laboratory oven. I also recycled the hexamethyldisiloxane solvent by distilling it through boiling and condensation.
After each sample set was run and each room cleaned, a set of millipore swipes was dragged through all parts of the room and processed as a pay sample. If anything turned up in that swipe, the room was decertified and considered contaminated. It was not certified as clean again until subsequent cleaning and swiping came up with zero content. The cleaning and swiping was not limited to just the processing clean rooms, the exterior microscopy clean rooms were also given the same treatment once sample sets had gone through.
So, yeah, we were serious about cross-contamination and maintaining clean room status. Even to the point of buying 200 proof ethanol, vs. going cheaper with 99.9% stuff.
Post by: Antibubba on November 30, 2005, 04:28:14 PM
(Not that I'd ever consider being involved in such an immoral enterprise
)
Post by: DrAmazon on November 30, 2005, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: Bob41081
Brad,
I have to partially disagree with you. When I 1st found out I was diabetic the doctor and nutritionist(sp?) told me to limit my intake of alcohol because it breaks down straight in to sugar. So alcohol does get digested but also absorbed directly.
Bob
Sorry, but I've got to put on my chemistry teacher hat. Ethanol isn't "broken down into sugar". Ethanol is two carbons, glucose is 6. Ethanol is processed by your body into acetic acid (also two carbons), which you excrete. I have to partially disagree with you. When I 1st found out I was diabetic the doctor and nutritionist(sp?) told me to limit my intake of alcohol because it breaks down straight in to sugar. So alcohol does get digested but also absorbed directly.
Bob
When your body is processing the ethanol, it uses up other necessary chemicals in your body, disrupting other metabolic cycles. This "hijacking" of your other cycles is what throws blood sugar off.
http://www.hscbklyn.edu/SUNY/Biochem/ALCOHOL/alcohol_overview.html
Post by: Brad Johnson on December 01, 2005, 07:08:18 AM
Brad
Post by: Guest on December 01, 2005, 07:17:37 AM
Quote
Homebrewing is one of my hobbies, and use of high-proof ethyl alcohol is commonly used to sanitize various fittings for use in the homebrew process. Everclear is a commonly recommended brand due to the high proof. In Washington state, all hard liquor is sold through state-run liquor stores, and those stores do not sell Everclear.
I know this sounds crazy, but I have it on good authority that you can actually buy Everclear from the state run stores IF you can find a physician to write you a prescription for it, seriously. I think you have to go to one of the big stores in Seattle though.Quote
I was thinking the same thing. While your total BAC wouldn't get that high from the 5cc dose, it wouldn't be distributed around the body like it would if you had swallowed it, so whatever was near the injection site would get a hefty direct hit.
Im thinking off all sorts of nastiness that would happen when that big wad of undiluted alcohol made it to your heart and lungs.I actually remember reading something about some rock star that injected whiskey once. I think he might have been one of the Stones, but im not sure (i dont think it was Jagger though).
Post by: Iain on December 01, 2005, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: Antibubba
You know, Gewehr, that gives me an idea for America's next big bar fad: Adding ethanol fumes into the mix at the Oxygen Bar! Instant drunk.
(Not that I'd ever consider being involved in such an immoral enterprise )
Pretty sure inhaled alcohol bars/clubs already exist.
(Not that I'd ever consider being involved in such an immoral enterprise
)Post by: cordex on December 01, 2005, 07:26:57 AM
Quote
Pretty sure inhaled alcohol bars/clubs already exist.
Order your own Alcohol WithOut Liquid machine here:http://www.awolusa.com/page-3.htm
Single user machine only $299.
Post by: Brad Johnson on December 01, 2005, 09:16:25 AM
Quote
Adding ethanol fumes into the mix at the Oxygen Bar! Instant drunk.
Or instant explosion. Nice recipe for an inhaleable FAB (fuel/air bomb).Brad
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on December 01, 2005, 09:24:49 AM
I recall one of the many stupid things we did in college was to replace water in certain...water cooled smoking devices...with various spirits. Gin, Vodka, Peppermint Schnapps, and various mixes all produced a rather pronounced effect.
Ordinarily, we would partake and then go out for pizza or a big sandwich someplace; once this option was introduced, that rarely happened, because it was questionable whether anyone would actually have the ability to get from point A to point B successfully.
Yep, I was pretty stupid B.C.
Post by: Oleg Volk on December 01, 2005, 02:30:30 PM