Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on April 29, 2009, 04:39:37 PM
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even though I agree that they are not indigenous, Conservatives would be shooting themselves in the foot by advocating slaughtering them....maybe just have a wild horse season....ok...That was a joke, don't alert PETA.
I've sometimes thought of making a fake video for youtube about hunting Mustangs, then setting up a place for donations for the prevention of Mustang hunting
http://www.rgj.com/article/20090429/NEWS12/90429023/0/SPECIAL04
WASHINGTON - A key House panel approved legislation Wednesday that would bar federal officials from slaughtering healthy wild horses and burros.
Bureau of Land Management officials have raised the possibility of killing as many as 30,000 wild mustangs they can no longer afford to house in holding facilities after removing them from land that cannot sustain the growing herds.
But Democratic leaders of the House Natural Resources Committee said sterilization of herd members and an expanded adoption program are more humane options.
The bill by committee Chairman Nick Rahall, D-W.Va., and Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., would step up fertility control measures, encourage more adoptions of the animals and provide the more than 60,000 wild horses and burros under federal control with as much as 19 million additional acres on which to roam freely.
"While Americans cheer on the thoroughbreds at Churchill Downs (at the Kentucky Derby) this Saturday, I would submit that the plight of the American mustang is not something of which we can be proud," Rahall said. "While the BLM, the agency charged with their safekeeping, has publicly spoken of killing these majestic creatures as a solution to a burgeoning budgetary problem, I know that we can, and must, do better. This legislation would ensure a safe future for thousands of healthy wild mustangs.
Rahall complained that the horses' range land has been slashed from nearly 54 million acres in 1971 to about 34 million acres today in Arizona, Nevada, California, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming and other Western and Midwestern states. The bill would allow the federal government to buy and exchange land and enter into cooperative agreements with private groups that want to establish wild-horse sanctuaries on private land.
Madeleine Pickens, wife of billionaire T. Boone Pickens, has offered to adopt unwanted horses and burros and create a sanctuary for them on a large ranch in Nevada.
Republicans on the Resources Committee unsuccessfully offered amendments to weaken the bill, which they said gives the wild mustangs and burros protection at the expense of other wild animals and plants.
Rep. Cynthia Lummis, R-Wyo., called the wild horses "the bullies of the range" because they sometimes chase away deer from their watering holes.
"They are non-native, invasive species," she said.
Grijalva said the bill provides for federal officials to preserve the health of the entire ecosystem, not just the horses.
Congress has been trying to protect wild horses and burros since 1971, when it passed legislation to preserve them.
Snce then, a lack of funding, shrinking range land and alleged mismanagement by federal officials have undermined those protections, Rahall said.
The bill will now be sent to the full House for a vote. It has not yet been taken up by the Senate.
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We had a group of locals taking pot shots at the mustangs near Lake Pleasant, just north of Phoenix. Several dead horses. BLM and USFS were looking for these guys last I heard. My buddy wanted to go out hunting the guys who shot the horses. He was pretty angry about it.
Me? I don't care one way or another about them, really. It's neat driving through the Kingman/Laughton area and seeing them from time to time, but they're neither "wild" nor "tame." They're an ornery petting zoo that's been known to kick little kids that run out of feed for pictures.
Cutting the population in half isn't such a bad idea. I hate to think what BLM (probably the most inept of the interior dept agencies) would do with the carcasses, though. Leave it to AZGFD to get it done and it will get done humanely, cleanly and safely.
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Meh, we hunt hogs, what's the difference? What caliber would you use to humanely drop a horse? Think .308/30-06 would be enough or would you need a little more oomph?
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1. People are just more emotionally attached to horses. The same people who have no problem eating a cow become disgusted when they hear about people eating horse.
2. Let me get this straight. These horses cannot be released into the wild, because there's not enough food for them there. So the only way to maintain them is to keep feeding them in holding facilities, and keeping up a staff of people who take care of them, and so forth... I wonder whose district this is in.
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Hey, what about Camaros?
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Bureau of Land Management officials have raised the possibility of killing as many as 30,000 wild mustangs they can no longer afford to house in holding facilities after removing them from land that cannot sustain the growing herds.
Why should we pay for the government to house horses in a pen?
TC
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The same reason liberals always have for wasting money: rampant emotionalism divorced from reality.
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Meh, we hunt hogs, what's the difference? What caliber would you use to humanely drop a horse? Think .308/30-06 would be enough or would you need a little more oomph?
A pretty grim question, but one I can accurately answer.
The round is less important than the location.
A 9 mm or .40 will do.
Draw an X from ear to opposite eye. Where they intersect is the correct location.
Or place nuzzle in ear and aim for opposite eye through the skull.
The horse brain is about the size of a fist so placement is crucial.
Sadly, I have humanely destroyed a horse...broken leg.
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I've read about the "draw an imaginary X" method before, it's quite old. I hear it works with a hammer, as well.
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Feral horses, when it comes down to it, are little different than deer, moose, elk, or other large ruminent. Each female will generally drop a foal each spring, resulting in overpopulation if not controlled. Much like deer, we've eliminated so many of the natural predators for animals that size that humans have to take their place.
Feeding them only exasperates the problem. There's only so much room for adoption of more or less randomly bred horses. Birth control doesn't really help, the surviving fertile types will replace the sterilized within a year.
Killing, in most cases, is the only economical option.
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Sell 'em to the French, they like horse meat don't they?
I kind of liked it, interesting texture. The dish I ate was a bit over spiced but not bad.
Any feral species with out a natural predator will over populate and over graze it's range. There has to be some kind of control. Adopt them out, cull them, hunt them or?? but something has to be done to control the population.
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I've read about the "draw an imaginary X" method before, it's quite old. I hear it works with a hammer, as well.
Why would you want to shoot a hammer? =(
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Why would you want to shoot a hammer? =(
It tried to nail me first.... =D
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I've sometimes thought of making a fake video for youtube about hunting Mustangs, then setting up a place for donations for the prevention of Mustang hunting
I believe you might be on something that might be step 3.
Here in Illinois the do-gooders closed down a equine slaughterhouse that shipped overseas. Lost jobs, lost trade, lost income. And now horse owners have to pay big $$$ to dispose of Mr. Ed when it's time.
http://www.illinoistimes.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A2653
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Horses are, overall, waaayyy overpopulated right now. Between the wild ones being adopted out, the lack of slaughter for meat (either there's a ban on the exports or the French aren't buying it anymore), and the fact that with the overall economy in the toilet lots of people are trying to sell their horses the price for horses is basically nothing. Used to be with the slaughter option there was a price floor as you could always sell the beast for so much per pound to the meat market. With that gone, or overwhelmed with supply, people can't hardly give their horses away. My FIL bought one recently for $15. And he only paid that much becuase it probably came with some tack. That same horse, 10 years ago, would have probably cost him $1500.
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Here in Illinois the do-gooders closed down a equine slaughterhouse that shipped overseas. Lost jobs, lost trade, lost income. And now horse owners have to pay big $$$ to dispose of Mr. Ed when it's time.
I remember that, I was PO'ed when that happened. What the heck is the difference between a cow and a horse? A pig is smarter than either, and we have no problem eating our bacon.
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The Wild Horse and Burro act was probably one of the most idiotic pieces of legislation ever enacted. Right on par with the Assault Weapon Ban.
They were never wild - they are descendants of horses that were released or escaped in the 1800s and early 1900s. Horses died out in NA 10,000 years ago, and weren't seen again here until they were reintroduced by the Spaniards.
Anyway, in Nevada, the land simply cannot stand being grazed at the level it is. It'd be nice to cut back on the number of cattle and sheep that are contributing to the overgrazing, but it'd be far easier to simply start eliminating "wild" horses, one way or another. The biggest problem with wild horses is that, unlike sheep and cattle who have to stay fairly close to water, horses can range out farther and graze land that would normally not be touched by domesticated animals. And when you get maybe 4" of rain per year, this isn't good.
My father, who works for the BLM in Nevada, has degrees in biology and range management and has to deal with these horses, has come close to putting up a website dedicated to enacting a hunting season on them. Only thing that stops him is that he's afraid he'd get fired, and he's close enough to retiring that he doesn't want to screw that up.
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I remember that, I was PO'ed when that happened. What the heck is the difference between a cow and a horse? A pig is smarter than either, and we have no problem eating our bacon.
Horses are pretty.
Ask the same question about dolphins.
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Horses are pretty.
Ask the same question about dolphins.
I only eat tuna-free dolphin filets on my sandwiches!
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I quit eating tuna altogether when they took the dolphin out, it just doesn't taste the same.:)
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I only eat Japanese tuna. The Japanese punch a baby dolphin every time they catch a tuna. =D
Can't we tell the Lefties that the mustangs are the pollution of white men. They will then demand that the horses be killed, with helicopter gunships.
Horses make wonderful gun leather.
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Can't we tell the Lefties that the mustangs Chicago politicians are the pollution of white men?
Fixed....and kinda true.... =|
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The same reason liberals always have for wasting other people's money: rampant emotionalism divorced from reality.
Fixed the omission.
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Has anyone ever tasted horse? There's a lot of meat on a horse really. I don't see any problem with eating horse but I know some people are different.
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Has anyone ever tasted horse? There's a lot of meat on a horse really. I don't see any problem with eating horse but I know some people are different.
Of course, of course...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU
"If God didn't want us to eat animals, He wouldn't have made them out of meat."
----Homer Simpson
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Has anyone ever tasted horse? There's a lot of meat on a horse really. I don't see any problem with eating horse but I know some people are different.
My wife would kill me if she saw this post, as she used to raise horses. I ate horse sushi in Japan some years back. I had whale sushi at the same meal.
Yes, both were uncooked. And both were quite tasty.
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Horse meat is a bit "sweeter" than beef, and usually has a finer grain.
It is not something I would want a huge honking slab of at one sitting, but it is certainly not unpleasant.
I tried whale a few times, bit never got to liking it as it seemed to be tough and overcooked. That may have been the only problem that prevented me from liking it. I do like whale blubber if in thin strips. Too big a piece gets to be too much to handle - think of pemmican vs. jerky but no meat bits.
The suggestion that the excess mustangs be sterilized makes me laugh. The picture of a roundup and application of rubber bands (a terribly cruel way to castrate) would surely make the PETA folks upset. Injecting mares is only good for a few years at best, and probably too costly in comparison to castrating the stallions.
We could import a few hundred gauchos to do the wrist-twist slice, but those fellas like to then fry or roast the byproduct. Would the feds allow them to consume uninspected meat parts? If not, it would probably break that plan.
As for castration, who is going to decide which stallions get to remain stallions so the herd can have a leader? My mind fails at conjuring up the interview process the potential candidates would have to go through. =D
stay safe.
skidmark
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Anybody here ever try rocky mountain oysters? I'm curious.
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Anybody here ever try rocky mountain oysters? I'm curious.
Yep, many times. Good stuff.
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Yep, many times. Good stuff.
What the hell do they taste like?
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Kind of nutty... =D
I don't know really, never had them.
The wild horse problem was caused by the US government. These horses were bred for the Army during WW1. As the war was drawing to a close, the horses were turned loose on the desert. They caused the problem, they need to take care of it the same way they do the coyote problem... A 30 cal SMG mounted on an airplane.
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What the hell do they taste like?
Chicken!
Actually it's been so long I don't really remember but I don't think the ones I had were cooked properly, kind of put me off of them.
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What the hell do they taste like?
That depends on how they're prepared. I've had them fried (both breaded and not) and ground for hamburger patties. Both ways they were very hard to tell from the "regular" cuts of beef.
Adaption of a wild horse isn't all it's cracked up to be. One of my past girl friends adopted a couple. It took almost a year to get approval and one or two inspections of the property prior to the approval. Serious fencing requirements.
They arrived with multiple problems, the worst of which were their hooves. It's hard to find a ferrier for a horse that's not even halter broke. It took a year or so for their hooves to come close to where they should be.
They're for the most part ugly horses. Short legs, big bodies, scars, coarse hair etc.
After almost 3 years, working with them 5 days a week, she had them halter broke. They'd still try to bite or kick anyone careless enough to come close. She finally got rid of them to another starry-eyed bleeding heart.
And, for the PETA crowd, adoption takes them out of their normal habitat and life of freedom and forces them into a life of essential slavery. Maybe that's why they're hard to "tame"?
Sterilize the one stallion of the herd, the next oldest steps up to the plate. Sterilize all of the herd maybe? Lots of money & manpower involved there. And what happens to the sterilized stallions? They'll loose some (if not all) of their aggressiveness, get their butts killed in a fight, or they'll end up wandering by themselves until they eventually die.
Shooting seems a much more humane solution.
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So why not hunt them? I'm sure there are people who would want to hunt them for pleasure.
Decide, for example, that we need 1,000 horses shot this year. Sell 1000 horse tags for, say, $50 each and wait.
For every species of animal out there there is a person who wants to hunt them. Find that person and charge them money for the privilege.
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Decide, for example, that we need 1,000 horses shot this year. Sell 1000 horse tags for, say, $50 each and wait.
Precisely what I said to the wife earlier this evening. She agreed.
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Where's the sport in shooting some grumpy old mooch-ponies looking for a food handout?
You could walk up to entire herds in NW Arizona and kill them all with a muzzleloading pistol.
I wouldn't pay $50 for that... and I sure as heck wouldn't take care of the corpse afterwards. Your decent hunters won't pay for this.
If they truly are no more than oversized varmints for the communities in which they reside, then let the communities deal with them. Add them to the varmint list for the general hunt license for a specified period of time until populations stabilize at the desired level.
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I wouldn't pay $50 for that... and I sure as heck wouldn't take care of the corpse afterwards. Your decent hunters won't pay for this.
I never said anything about "decent" hunters.
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Where's the sport in shooting some grumpy old mooch-ponies looking for a food handout?
People hunt for sport? I always thought it was a bit too much work to be sport. I always hunted to fill the freezer.
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People hunt for sport? I always thought it was a bit too much work to be sport. I always hunted to fill the freezer.
I think you'd need a big freezer.
My grandpa said the larges animal he ever killed on the farm was a horse. MUCH bigger than a shorthorn.
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About 15 years ago, we had some Navy boys from Top Gun at NAS Fallon go out shooting and killed a mare and foal. I think they were court marshaled and spent some jail time.
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afaik if you poach them you're in serious trouble and they'll look for you and post awards.