Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ryan in Maine on April 30, 2009, 06:46:20 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090430/ap_on_re_us/us_terror_support
SANTA ANA, Calif. – Seven people have pleaded guilty in California to providing material support to an Iraq-based terrorist organization.
The defendants entered their pleas Wednesday and each faces up to 20 years in prison.
Prosecutors say the defendants admitted they raised funds for the Mujahedin-e Khalq (moo-juh-hah-DEEN'-e kalk), or MEK. The State Department says the militia was supported by Saddam Hussein and works against the Iranian government.
They also say the defendants admitted collecting money from supporters and soliciting money from donors at locations such as Los Angeles International Airport by saying it was for a human rights charity.
The United States designated the group a foreign terrorist organization in 1997.
How embarrassing. And aggravating.
P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mujahedin_of_Iran
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These people should be tried and publicly executed. The sytem of appeals is a waste of money.
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decaf junior
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These people should be tried and publicly executed. The sytem of appeals is a waste of money.
What's to appeal? They pled guilty. Is this a conditional plea? Was there a denial of a motion to suppress or something. :|
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What's to appeal? They pled guilty. Is this a conditional plea? Was there a denial of a motion to suppress or something. :|
I was speaking in a general sense. If I had my way the justice system would be very different.
I don't often drink coffee and I didn't today. My ideas are simply unorthodox. I like to think I am a realist.
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My ideas are simply unorthodox.
they are very orthodox.... in certain circles.
i can remember arms for the ira jars on the bars in new york
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I was speaking in a general sense. If I had my way the justice system would be very different.
You do realize that if we did not have appellate courts, we would not have the Heller decision.
If you did have your way, would would review the trial courts? The President? A Justice Czar appointed by Obama? A committee of media titans? Who?
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You do realize that if we did not have appellate courts, we would not have the Heller decision.
My statement was much too general. I should have said I am against the practice of murderers and violent criminals wasting taxpayer money through multiple appeals. It would be cheaper to just kill them quickly.
My ideas to create a better, more orderly society may never be applied, but I still think they are good.
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Before anyone jokes about my foolishness and general behavior on this board, I'd like to inform the public that I am aware of my youth and inexeperiance in certain areas of life, among them internet posting.
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My statement was much too general. I should have said I am against the practice of murderers and violent criminals wasting taxpayer money through multiple appeals. It would be cheaper to just kill them quickly.
My ideas to create a better, more orderly society may never be applied, but I still think they are good.
You've got me curious. What are your ideas? Can you go into detail? Give us an outline?
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who did these fundraisers kill?
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It's threads like these that make me look forward to the day that freedom lover meets shootinstudent.... =D
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So... we just cut an ally against Iran off at the knees?
How wise of us. :rolleyes:
I'd like to know what targets they attacked before accepting the label of "terrorists" being put on them. If they only targeted the government of Iran and no deliberate lay citizen attacks, then I disagree with the label very strongly.
Next, we'll be telling Burma that we'd happily convict Aung San Kyu Chee (or however you spell her name) and store her in one of our SuperMaxes for them.
Just because you aren't a government in yourself doesn't mean you can't wage war against another government... if the grievance is there then have at it.
Our enemies certainly have no similar compunctions.
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I'm not familiar with these people - has this group committed any acts of terrorism against the USA or its allies, or have they only targeted Iran?
If the former - fry 'em. :mad:
If the latter - fund 'em. =D
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You've got me curious. What are your ideas? Can you go into detail? Give us an outline?
I can do that. Just keep in mind that it would be hard to implement them unless I was some kind of dictator. They are mostly theoretical. Also remember that the American people and our culture would have to change tremendously for them to work properly.
foreign policy: Anyone who attacks us or who we go to war with will be totally annilhiated. If 911 happened and I was in charge Afghanistan and probably Pakistan would be a radioactive wasteland. We will not send peace keepers to anyone who is not an ally. Third world dictators will not be pandered to. Illegal immigration will be stopped.
Criminal Justice: Murder, attempted murder, terrorism, terrorist conspiracy, treason, home invasion, kidnapping for ransom, and spying will result in a trial and public execution. Minor torts such as vandalism, shoplifting, etc will be punished by public flogging and pillories for the first and second offences. Appeals in criminal trials will be limited. There will be no insanity defense. Inmates will be worked hard and fed little. In prison: rape, fighting, rioting, assault of officers, attempts to escape, attempts at suicide, and food fighting will be punished with immediate execution.
economic policy: Limited government intervention in business affairs. No bailouts. Extremely limited subsidization. Few restrictions on business. No grants for anything that will not benefit America or Americans.
fiscal policy: Graduated income tax. No sales tax. No vice tax. No NFA tax. No wasteful spending. No earmarks.
energy policy: Increased drilling in America. Grants for the development of coal gasification, cellulosic ethanol, and cheaper reactors. Lift of ban on recycling nuclear waste.
transportation policy: Fix public roads and bridges. Lift certain safety and emissions regulations on small cars.
trading policy: End most tariffs. Limit protectionism.
social policy: Severly limit welfare and medicaid.
education policy: End required physical education. End extracurricular sports programs. Make physchology, government, and new courses on societal philosophy required. Require lessons in gun safety and familiarization.
Weapon policy: Make the Castle Doctrine federal law. Create more defender friendly self defense laws. Legalize open and concealed carry and the use of all nonfirearm weapons execpt high explosives. Legalize everything at or below 120mm, including full autos. That last part would be the hardest to do, as many people would be violently opposed to my plans.
I think that's enough for now.
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sigh... that takes me back 40 years to when i knew everything too.
I can do that. Just keep in mind that it would be hard to implement them unless I was some kind of dictator. They are mostly theoreticaltheatrical. Also remember that the American people and our culture would have to change tremendously for them to work properly
fixed the spelling error
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Just keep in mind that it would be hard to implement them unless I was some kind of dictator. They are mostly theoretical. Also remember that the American people and our culture would have to change tremendously for them to work properly.
Just like most despotisms and Communist/Socialist states: It would work right if only I was in charge and they did it MY way!
:angel:
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i would prefer to have MY reign described as benevolent despotism if you please
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Just like most despotisms and Communist/Socialist states: It would work right if only I was in charge and they did it MY way!
It will be a cold day in hell before I find any voters who agree with me.
sigh... that takes me back 40 years to when i knew everything too.
I only wish I knew everything.
i would prefer to have MY reign described as benevolent despotism if you please
Why do you mock me when I do not mock you? Granted, you do have more reason.
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dude i wasn't intending to mock you that was me i mocked i actually thought like that and said that. when we raze you take comfort in two things we envy you your fervor and energy and more importantly there is a new generation behind you that you get to give a hard time to from your own mount olympus. just as we cast bolts from ours.
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Freedom lover:
Read Plato's "Republic." In particular, pay attention to the allegory of the cave, and also the notion of the benevolent dictator.
A must-read prior to anyone getting too headstrong in any particular political sway.
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Next, we'll be telling Burma that we'd happily convict Aung San Kyu Chee (or however you spell her name) and store her in one of our SuperMaxes for them.
Don't joke - there are several Uyghur rebels you're already 'storing' in Gitmo.
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So... we just cut an ally against Iran off at the knees?
How wise of us. :rolleyes:
I'd like to know what targets they attacked before accepting the label of "terrorists" being put on them. If they only targeted the government of Iran and no deliberate lay citizen attacks, then I disagree with the label very strongly.
Next, we'll be telling Burma that we'd happily convict Aung San Kyu Chee (or however you spell her name) and store her in one of our SuperMaxes for them.
Just because you aren't a government in yourself doesn't mean you can't wage war against another government... if the grievance is there then have at it.
Our enemies certainly have no similar compunctions.
The MeK are terrorists though, and have been since before the revolution.
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. . . education policy: . . . Make physchology, government, and new courses on societal philosophy required. Require lessons in gun safety and familiarization.
Maebi speling klas, tou? :laugh:
And courses in "societal philosophy" sound like indoctrination . . . :O
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These people should be tried and publicly executed. The system of appeals is a waste of money.
Did anyone else read this post, look at the nick and start laughing hysterically?
Anyways, the whole Due Process thing is kinda part of the Constitution. They broke the law, had a fair trial, plead guilty and will now face their sentence. Uh, yay?
I can do that. Just keep in mind that it would be hard to implement them unless I was some kind of dictator. They are mostly theoretical. Also remember that the American people and our culture would have to change tremendously for them to work properly.
I hate to say this, but I'm rather glad you are not the dictator. America is a pretty decent place and civil wars are messy.
Re foreign policy - We as a country have a long standing ban on nuclear first strike. For bloody good reason. I don't disagree with the peace keeper thing. I was one of them. Never under UN control, thank the Gods.
Not sure what you mean by 'pandering to third world dictators'. Unless you mean we'll stop installing and supporting friendly dictators. That would be a nice change, but unlikely. If you're referring to hostile action against dictators we officially disapprove of, we don't always have the best track record of 'managing' them. Castro has been sitting off our coast for quite a few years.
As for stopping illegal immigration, it'd be nice. But I'm curious how you'd do so. No offense, but you seem to lean very heavily towards authoritarian measures. I'd prefer not to have checkpoints everywhere and be forced to carry an internal passport. I spent too much time in former Communist countries to ever want the US to go down that road.
I used to be strongly pro death penalty. I still am, sorta. I have no theoretical problem with the concept, but after working for the government, I question their competency to do so. As others have said, it is refreshing to see someone so young with so much faith in the fairness and infalliability of our government.
Unfortunately, the whole flogging thing is un-Constitutional. Cruel and unusual punishment and all that. Appeals are kinda Constitutional. The right to petition for redress and such. Starving inmates and forcing them to do hard labor would be an interesting Constitutional lawsuit. Summary execution of a civilian not in self-defense would also probably fail the whole Constitutional thing.
No problems with your economic ideas. Be rather nice and freedom oriented. Ditto fiscal.
Re energy policy, it's nice but it wouldn't do too much. Lifting regulation geared entirely at preventing or inhibiting construction of energy resources would help. It's not the price of the reactor that is prohibitive, it's the fact that you are flat out not allowed to build them.
As for your trading policy, theoretically an excellent idea. Not such a great idea if the countries you export to don't play by the same rules.
If I may inquire, what's wrong with gym class? Also, under which provision of the Constitution would the fed.gov be allowed to ban sports programs? Also, let me guess, the classes on psychology, government and social programming would be less than ah, 'balanced'.
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Freedom Lover,
I hope you get yourself to a good Liberal Arts university and take lots of speech, philosophy, and history. It will develop you a good deal and I do not mean that negatively.
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Did anyone else read this post, look at the nick and start laughing hysterically?
What the hell is a nick?
Not sure what you mean by 'pandering to third world dictators'.
I mean that I am against appeasing and being nice to people like Ackmedinajad and Chavez. I believe in the use of force in foreign policy. I meant nothing more.
Unfortunately, the whole flogging thing is un-Constitutional.
I realize that. Nevertheless I still believe criminals should be punished.
I hate to say this, but I'm rather glad you are not the dictator.
You and everyone else. These are just my ideas about a temporary utopia. It would probably never work. I realize that a government with that much power would turn on some of its own people before too long, grow corrupt, and probably come to resemble the Soviet Union before it fell and something much worse took its place. Humans are extremely fallible.
People get the government they "deserve". The system that has worked best in practice is the American republic, however we are no longer a nation of self-reliant farmers. Their system does not work well in modern America, with people who are so reliant on government. The best way to get our country to work well is for our culture to become more like it was back then, vice versa for the government.
I agree with the founders on some ideas and not on others. I like the idea of a Constitution, I don't believe in the concept of rights, I dislike the idea of big government. You must remember that my ideas are highly theoretical. I am not yet old enough to vote, and when I do I plan to vote for people who share some of the founder's ideas. I suppose that in practice I am a republican with conservative leanings. I got too damn much out of Heinlin's Starship Troopers.
My fantasy is the product of an overactive imagination combined with my new beliefs. I wish I had a better way with words.
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"Nick" is "nickname" ie your posting name on the forum. A "freedom lover" espousing super dictatorial, authoritarian measures is ironic in the extreme.
While your (some) of your ideas are indeed far worse than a lot of the things Obama and Co are doing, at least you admit they are bad ideas. How you can reconcile "these are bad ideas" and "this is how it should be" is a bit of a puzzle to me.
Also, I'm not %100 flogging is necessarily cruel and unusual per the Constitution.
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Freedom Lover,
I hope you get yourself to a good Liberal Arts university and take lots of speech, philosophy, and history. It will develop you a good deal and I do not mean that negatively.
Heh. Someone still has faith in our education system? How quaint. :angel:
Most of my intellectual growth in college was fostered through my own curiosity and exploration. Very little of it came from my classes, despite taking a lot of those liberal arts classes you just mentioned. At best, the college courses pointed a way down a path I had to take myself down.
Although, that's life for you. Point is, you have to walk that path yourself. College professors can't drag you down it, and very often they get lost in the wilderness themselves. Someone who isn't willing to walk down that path (to stretch an already tortured metaphor a little further), isn't going to walk down it no matter how much prodding they get, and someone who is willing to walk down that path doesn't really need college courses to do it, though they can help.
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Maybe I shouldn't post any more political things for a while.
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Maybe I shouldn't post any more political things for a while.
Only if your ego is particularly fragile.
Who knows... it might help you to develop your perspective a bit. We're a tough bunch.
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It took me an hour but I have figured some things out. My more "developed" political perspective will be posted in a new thread.
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Maybe I shouldn't post any more political things for a while.
Eh, don't worry about it too much. A lot of us were about the same when we were younger. Hell, I'm positively embarrassed by some of the things I believed back when I was in high school - and that was only five years ago. :cool:
You don't need to worry unless you entrench yourself into that way of thinking. At that point you've lost. So long as you can look at your views honestly, spot the flaws in them and modify your thinking accordingly, and continue to hone your beliefs through logical discourse and reasoning, you're making progress.
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too my shame i was a socialist. or at least talked loud about being one. working and moving out on my own cured me
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too my shame i was a socialist. or at least talked loud about being one. working and moving out on my own cured me
And this is what makes me frightened for the future.
Too many "children" have been allowed to continue to be "children" well into their 30's.
Without having to take responsibility for himself, man will EXPECT to be taken care of.
(I must point out, that this last statement is gramatically correct. "Man" in this context means any random person, male or female.)
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You don't need to worry unless you entrench yourself into that way of thinking. At that point you've lost. So long as you can look at your views honestly, spot the flaws in them and modify your thinking accordingly, and continue to hone your beliefs through logical discourse and reasoning, you're making progress.
And honestly, the best way to do that is through debate with intelligent people. APS makes a fantastic forum to do so.
The Roundtable in THR, (and later APS) substantially influenced how my political views formed. Additionally, I improved at typing and writing! =D
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Eh, don't worry about it too much. A lot of us were about the same when we were younger. Hell, I'm positively embarrassed by some of the things I believed back when I was in high school - and that was only five years ago. :cool:
You don't need to worry unless you entrench yourself into that way of thinking. At that point you've lost. So long as you can look at your views honestly, spot the flaws in them and modify your thinking accordingly, and continue to hone your beliefs through logical discourse and reasoning, you're making progress.
Thanks. I hope I will always be able to do that.
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And this is what makes me frightened for the future.
Too many "children" have been allowed to continue to be "children" well into their 30's.
Without having to take responsibility for himself, man will EXPECT to be taken care of.
(I must point out, that this last statement is gramatically correct. "Man" in this context means any random person, male or female.)
Yup. "Childhood" extends into college, "young adulthood" (a rather silly concept imho) extends to the mid 30's. Such a silly idea, one wonders how it became so common.
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Yeech. I hope I grow up some more by the time I'm in my 30's.
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Does it bother any of you that there has been a rash of terrorists pleading guilty?
What possible beenfit is there to pleading guilty?
They get a whole lot more out of making a mockery of a public trial, with much the same result.
Gotta wonder what they were promised.
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I smell a US/Iran diplomacy link in this somewhere.
Bush left them alone since 2000. Iran hates us.
They get prosecuted and tried in the first 3-4 months of Obamania and Iran backs off a bit of its rhetoric (or at least the media carries less of it recently).
It's also interesting that the UK, France and the UN deliberately changed their status in the last few years so that they are no longer considered a terrorist org to those three entities, but used to be.