Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on May 04, 2009, 02:54:13 PM
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Considering the fact that GM/Dodge-Chrysler/Ford was kept afloat by all of us in flyover America that actually like the products they make... and two of those companies are now going to be government/union/foreign controlled...
Do you intend to boycott GM or Chrysler products in the future?
Personally, I'm going to switch from Dodge to Ford when my truck no longer does what I need it to do. As long as Ford stays above water, I mean. Otherwise I'll probably bounce to Toyota for my truck needs.
I refuse to feed a socialist Union coup.
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I soooo liked the Dodge Charger. :mad:
Any alternatives on the Dodge Charger? Mid-sized car with big engine, what the Europeans call a "toruing car".
Looking at a Toyota pick-up with crew cab. Useful for hauling stuff and people.
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Once I get the Mustang running (bought cheap with engine problems), ALL of our vehicles will be Ford products.
As we typically buy used, this is more of a function of economics then politics, though.
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I don't plan to be in the market for a new car for a long time so I guess I am boycotting all of them!
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I had planned on looking for only a "foreign" car.
Ford's showing a little backbone has made me consider to continue to buy Ford products.
I'll never buy another GM or a Chrysler, though.
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Considering the fact that GM/Dodge-Chrysler/Ford was kept afloat by all of us in flyover America that actually like the products they make... and two of those companies are now going to be government/union/foreign controlled...
Do you intend to boycott GM or Chrysler products in the future?
Personally, I'm going to switch from Dodge to Ford when my truck no longer does what I need it to do. As long as Ford stays above water, I mean. Otherwise I'll probably bounce to Toyota for my truck needs.
I refuse to feed a socialist Union coup.
Well - I would - except I currently own two Chrysler products; a Town and Country van and a PT Cruiser. Super good cars, love 'em.
It is a given that I will never ever buy another car from Chrysler as long as they are owned by the UAW, and the US goobermint. Except those made in Germany, I've never been terribly enamored with euro manufactured cars so the Fiat part isn't a plus either.
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Well, it's not like I'd have bought anything from them before all this, so.....
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I soooo liked the Dodge Charger. :mad:
Any alternatives on the Dodge Charger? Mid-sized car with big engine, what the Europeans call a "toruing car".
Looking at a Toyota pick-up with crew cab. Useful for hauling stuff and people.
I tested a new Toyota Tacoma 4 door this weekend. Freaking tiny on the inside. I feel bad for anyone who needs to sit in the backseat if I'm the driver.
I might have to consider a full size pickup
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Hmmm, I've never owed a pick up in my life. =D Maybe now in the time.
Smigel has one of those Toyota TRO trucks.
I'll talk to him tomorrow night at Wing Chun.
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I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.
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Well, what vintage Fords do you want to know about?
I've had these Fords:
1989 Ford Crown Vic
1995 Ford Escort
1998 Ford Mustang
1995 Ford F250
I'll add:
The 80's stuff was pretty outdated, IMO. Pushrod engines and the like.
The 90's stuff was pretty decent. When needed, parts were cheap and available.
The new stuff feels pretty darn solid. The new Ford's I've driven felt great, IMO.
An older car's reliability has much, much more to do with maintenance history then it does with brand within the same class, though. My truck has over 220,000 miles on it - I think nothing of hauling a car down the interstate with it.
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I have no plans to get rid of a perfectly good paid-for GM sedan (2003 Impala). With my driving habits I expect it will last me another 10 years. We'll see what the world looks like then.
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I had a 89 Mustang GT. Weak point was the AOD transmission.
I had a 73 F-150. It was a finiky 302, always tuning it.
I had a 84 Bronco with 275K on the clock. 300 six with a 4 speed transmission. I got rid of it when the valve seats went. Figured the repair weren't worth the price of the vehicle.
I'd buy another Ford and not regret the decision. I have been looking at F-150 or F-250 4x4 supercabs lately.
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I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.
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Older Fords (late 70s, 80s, or early 90s) are crap, in my experience, except for the trucks. The newer Fords, though, are pretty good. I have a 2001 Mercury Cougar with 100,000 miles on it, and I've only had one real problem with it (the emergency brake sticks). Other than that, it's been a great car and totally reliable. My understanding is that some of the newest models are even better.
The trucks have been pretty good for a while. Consumer Reports rates several different models of Ford trucks with above average reliability on par with Toyota trucks, if I'm remembering right.
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Well, what vintage Fords do you want to know about?
I'd like opinions on modern Mustangs too, since the idea of being a sort-of greaser without the hair after I retire appeals to me. Of course, in 47 years they will probably be relics that cost five times as much as they currently do new. I'd also like to learn to drive a manual before they become much rarer on new cars then they are now. Hopefully I will be able to spend some time driving one with my dad someday.
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Ford Focus ZX5, 130,000 miles on it. No major repairs, no major problems. Just drove it to New Orleans and back with nary a hiccup. Solid. Gives every indication of running well for a good while longer.
Good buddy has a Mustang with similarly high miles. She does abuse the crap out of that thing--pretty crazy driver--but it's solid.
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I'd like opinions on modern Mustangs too, since the idea of being a sort-of greaser without the hair after I retire appeals to me. Of course, in 47 years they will probably be relics that cost five times as much as they currently do new. I'd also like to learn to drive a manual before they become much rarer on new cars then they are now. Hopefully I will be able to spend some time driving one with my dad someday.
Well, my Mustang doesn't have any compression on cylinder #4. =)
It's a little too... 'plasticity'. The fifth generations are much better in this respect.
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With the Obama admin trying to use TARP leverage with the banks, and outright confiscate the Chrysler secured-bond holder's collateral through chicanery and give it to the UAW, both Chrysler and GM may go under.
Unless they're state-run industries from now on. The big players amongst the bond-market people will never touch a heavily unionized industry, or anyone playing footsie with the fed.gov again, or they'll charge confiscatory rates to assuage the risk of doing so.
Honestly, the only hope capitalisim in the U.S. has is that the banks and bond-holders are not the types to fool around, and they'll pay for the best legal minds in the country, and what Obama and Rattner are trying to do is so egregious, there isn't a Carter or Clinton apointee anywhere in the Federal Courts who can let it stand if Obama finds a malleable bankruptcy judge who'll let such socialist confiscation stand.
We knew it would be BAD, but I don't think any of us knew it would be THIS BAD. What the O admin is trying to pull here is unprecedented. Even FDR did not go this far. I don't think people understand how huge an outrage this is to basic property rights, because it's faceless investing entities and lots of boring finance-speak covering up what's happening here. This is literally "blood-in-the-streets"-worthy if it weren't for the media sweeping this under the rug, and the productive class's natural aversion to torches and pitchforks.
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I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.
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In the last 35 years, I've had a whole lot less trouble from my Fords than I have GM and Chrysler products.
The Mountaineer I drive every day has 154K on it, and the engine has never been worked on. Basically just routine maintenance on the rest of it. The work van (E150) only has 87K on it, problem free.
The wife's Monte Carlo has screwy glitches in the computer that nobody can figure out (84K), and uses oil already. I should've traded that off instead of my Mustang (135K, no problems). The only BAD Ford I had was a '74 Maverick. I think I've only had one GOOD GM product ('72 Chevelle SS). The rest fell (or rusted) apart. Only one decent Chrysler, too ('68 Super Bee). I had to rebuild it, but that could've been the previous owner's fault.
That said, GM and Chrysler are totally out of consideration now.
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If it's union-made, I'm not buying it.
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I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.
Lets see,
My 2003 Cobra is modded, puts about 500 HP to the wheels, and I race it as well as drive it every day. It has 46,000 miles and has needed a clutch, and alternator, oil changes and tires. Of those only the alternator isn't directly atributable to modding it.
My wifes 07 Explorer just turned 20,000 and hasen't need anything but oil changes. Completly trouble free.
My previous work truck was a 79 F-150 with a 460. It was still running with 375,000 miles when I sold it, but it did have an engine rebuild and various fixes needed. I'd say py the time it was 25 years old it was taking about $300 a year in parts, on top of normal maitnence (oil chnges, brakes, fluids) to keep running.
My current work truck is a 95 F150 with a 300 and 5-speed. 191,000 miles, runs fine. I bought it about 20,000 ago and haven't put parts in it yet. I'm pretty sure the 1-2 syncro is going though. Going to need to pull the trans eventually.
what others are saying is pretty accurate. Pre 1980, expect some level of "restoration". 1980-~1992, were only so-so in their time, and are pretty long in the tooth now. ~1992-~2001 Quality was coming up, but these cars are getting old. If well maintained they can be very good, but take it on a case by case basis. >~2002. They're good cars, better the newer they are but you can get, with good maintence 200,000 trouble free miles out of these cars.
I wouldn't have bought GM or Chrysler anyway (excluding Jeeps. I've always wanted one of those) but I definatly won't now.
El Tejon. If you liked the Charger check out the 2010 Taurus SHO. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/11/officially-official-2010-ford-taurus-sho/
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I have a question for you Ford owners. How well have they worked for you? What do you think of the quality? I have never heard anything good about them outside of this forum and magazines. My dad says the ford trucks at work have frequently broken down in the past. The Dodge vans, however, last signifigantly longer than the Ford vans. Nobody I know has a high opinion of any Ford except the Model T. We all admit that Mustangs are cool, but I've only ever met one person who has one.
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I drive a 2001 Ranger. It has something north of 150k miles on it. It still runs fine, and it's never needed any major repairs, never actually broken down. It's needed lots of little stuff over the years, consumable stuff like brakes and belts and tires and whatnot.
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No Fords in my future, ever.
From our '73 LTD wagon to my last '94 Explorer, I'm done with the brand.
If we don't buy a Smart ForTwo, I do look forward to seeing a Fiat 500 or Panda in my garage.
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Fix It Again Tony.
The only reason the auto industry is in trouble is because nobody is buying vehicles. All the loans and machinations in the world won't help as long as nobody is buying vehicles. duh!
I believe there is 4 trillion dollars (cash money) deposited in banks in the US of A. If the political class were actually interested in ramping up the economy they would pass temporary legislation that gave access to the folks who have that cash, by suspending capital gains taxes on those cash investments, suspending income taxes and penalties on withdrawals from IRA's, 401k's etc as long as that cash was used to pay down debt or to purchase real property such as manufactured goods, land, homes, vehicles etc. Of course that would free up cash to purchase repossessed houses and clean up the back log of property for sale. It would also alow banks etc to loan money with proper down payments to reliable folks, thus ramping up the credit situation.
Obama's criminal betrayal of secured bond holders in the auto companies should get him arrested and jailed. He is no better than the rest of the financial criminals.
The silence in the media and in the halls of goobermint is deafening in this regard. That should tell you something.
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What the O admin is trying to pull here is unprecedented.
Isn't there plenty of precedent for this? I mean, I realize it's a lot of "boring finance-speak" but if you're looking for precedent on bankruptcy that's probably what you'll get.
The absolute priority rule is regularly modified in bankruptcy court, said Richard Hahn, co-chairman of the bankruptcy practice at Debevoise & Plimpton LLP, a New York law firm that isn’t involved in the Chrysler negotiations. Two- thirds of the lenders can force the holdouts to go along with them in a procedure called a cram-down.
“The U.S. bankruptcy code foresees the possibility that it may be necessary to vary from absolute priority, in particular when a two-thirds majority is convinced it makes legal or business sense,” Hahn said. “If the government has consents from 70 percent (which it does), that’s more than enough” to give equity to junior creditors.
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With one exception I have always owned Domestic Cars. Never again.
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F****d
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Dodge
=D
I'm not planning on boycotting any of the big three because I'm already a loyal Nissan owner. The only issue I had with the Japanese trucks was they didn't make a full-sized pickup and I know I'm going to need one at some point here in the pretty near future.
I figured I was going to be stuck having to buy the lesser of the three evils to get one. Fortunately Toyota fixed that little problem by upsizing the Tundra. I wish a diesel engine was an option. Sad that Cummins has to waste such a magnificent power plant on a Dodge.
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Redundant. The correct rendering is:
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:laugh:
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I'm going to sell my Pontiac and get a "new" car. For now, it will either be a Subaru, Toyota, or Honda.
I'd consider Volkswagen and maybe Hyundai, Nissan, and Mazda if I lived in a larger area. I also wouldn't mind owning a MINI in a different climate.
If I want a car I'll look at the Impreza, Legacy, Yaris, Corolla, Matrix, Camry, Fit, Civic, Accord.
If I want an SUV I'll look at the Outback, Forester, Rav4, FJ Cruiser, Highlander, 4Runner, Element.
If I want a truck I'll look at the Tacoma.
That's a pretty freaking solid line up to pick from. Ford/GM/Dodge will never match it (except for trucks).
The other automakers even stack up well against Ford/GM/Dodge. Keeping them in mind.
If I want a car I'll look at the Rabbit, GTI, Jetta, Passat, GLI, Elantra, Genesis, Sonata, Azera, Versa, Altima, Maxima, Mazda3, Mazda6, Cooper, Clubman.
If I want an SUV I'll look at the Tiguan, Santa Fe, XTerra, CX7.
If I want a truck I'll look at the Frontier.
Don't get me wrong. I like Ford/GM/Dodge. They've got some good vehicles. But I just don't want to be a part of their future (although Ford still has a shot of skirting this crap).
Comparing cars by "type", the Big Three are living off reputation and not reality these days.
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Why do y'all hate America?
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Why do y'all hate America?
Aside from the truck category, all the empirical data I've seen indicates Japanese cars are more reliable. And while I love America, I loathe the blood suckers in the UAW with a passion.
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When someone gets a lemon suddenly every car from that manufacturer is crap.
I've owned Toyotas, Fords and Chevys. All have served me well because I took care of them. Except for the Toyota I wrecked when i was 17. ;/
My poor old Ford Escort ran for 246,000 miles before the transmission started failing. Moved "up" to a used 94 Chevy Corsica which I ran until it hit 278,000 miles and bought the '03 Impala I'm driving now.
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When someone gets a lemon suddenly every car from that manufacturer is crap.
That's just Human Nature.
The ole saying burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me is pretty much internalized by most folk.
With so many choices in the market place why give more money to someone who sold you crap once and assume the risk that they will do it again?
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"Of those only the alternator isn't directly atributable to modding it."
True, but if you're driving it the way you say then that could be directly attributable to the alternator's failure.
Do you have it on an underdrive pulley? Stock alternators, especially on V8s, are usually biased to start charging at a little lower RPM than high idle. That affects field strength for one... two, the bearings, brushes, and coils aren't really made to be spun up to 10-12,000 RPM* and dropped like a rock on a regular basis. That's partly also the reason everyone started switching to serpentine or multigroove belts rather than V belts... which at high RPM levels as with modern engines, tend to stretch and burn from wiping friction, and sometimes pop out of their pulleys altogether. Gyroscopic forces can come into play too because of the weight of the stator assembly. Turn a sharp corner at ~6000rpm engine speed and as far as forces go you may as well have cranked the belt tension up to 100lbs.
*not crank RPM, acessory RPM is multiplied due to crank pulley diameter.
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Why do y'all hate America?
If union thuggery, and state-run banking and industry is "The American Way" now... Then yah, I guess I DO "hate America".
Then there are the sleazy-inept executives with golden parachutes etc. true, but they were at least subject to market forces eventually. If the Democrats were serious about cleaning up corporate America, anti-trust legislation should be expanded to limit or prevent multiple board memberships by CEO's etc. because it's that incestuous relationship that interlinks many large corporate entities and makes all of them adverse to nixing fat-cat golden paracutes for anybody.
Obama has made his intentions clear, by already making threats and refusing TARP money back from the banks who realize they've just sold themselves for Faustian Socialism.
I see no reason to believe he'll do any different with Chrysler or GM, assuming they get back on their feet someday.
The UAW is now just going to be another wing of the AFGE, we should put them on the GS-scale and opt them out of Social Security while we're at it...
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I just don't get the irony of it all.
We have people on this forum who espouse the American way of life, hate what WalMart sells, decry outsourcing of jobs overseas, and yet in the same breath will exhort buying foreign cars.
Nice.
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I just don't get the irony of it all.
We have people on this forum who espouse the American way of life, hate what WalMart sells, decry outsourcing of jobs overseas, and yet in the same breath will exhort buying foreign cars.
Nice.
Well I was going to defend myself and then I noticed you did not say everyone on this forum.
In that case, you are likely correct.
For myself, however, I espouse the American way of life, love WalMart and the very idea of WalMart, love the idea of outsourcing jobs so Americans can be freed up to do more productive work and have no problems whatsoever with buying a foreign ANYTHING.
The American way of life is to COMPETE and be BETTER than the rest. If an American company can't compete, it needs to die.
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I just don't get the irony of it all.
We have people on this forum who espouse the American way of life, hate what WalMart sells, decry outsourcing of jobs overseas, and yet in the same breath will exhort buying foreign cars.
Nice.
It's my understanding that the average Toyota has more made in America bits than the average Ford. True, the execs are in Japan, but the factories are in America, and are not unionized.
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If union thuggery, and state-run banking and industry is "The American Way" now... Then yah, I guess I DO "hate America".
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The UAW is now just going to be another wing of the AFGE, we should put them on the GS-scale and opt them out of Social Security while we're at it...
Well, it looks like the UAW has no intention of keeping it's Chrysler shares.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article6227417.ece
Chrysler’s union plans to sell its shares in the struggling carmaker as quickly as possible, the United Auto Workers’ (UAW) president revealed today, as the company prepared for its third hearing in bankruptcy court
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Well, it looks like the UAW has no intention of keeping it's Chrysler shares.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article6227417.ece
Chrysler’s union plans to sell its shares in the struggling carmaker as quickly as possible, the United Auto Workers’ (UAW) president revealed today, as the company prepared for its third hearing in bankruptcy court
Of course they're selling the shares. If they kept them, they couldn't always blame someone else for their screwups and the UAW employees might actually start to feel a sense of ownership and vote to do things that made sense. In fact, they might just vote out the union bosses when they saw the impact of all the moronic business decisions that would be sure to come.
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Balog, I think you'll find that your emperical data is several years out of date. All the data for the las 5 or 6 model years is that the "quality gap" has been closed. Check out JD Powers inital quality ratings for the 06-07-08 model years.
mfree.
It's a known design flaw on the Cobra engines. The alternator is moved down by the left exhast manifold (lots of heat) and run off the blower belt (lots of belt tension). So they don't last long. What useally happens is they get hot enough to melt the solder in the voltage regulator and it gives up. (this is what happened to mine) It's a compromise on location, but there's only so much room in a mustang engine compartment and a 4.6 DOHC SC is a big engine. I'm not real worried about it. I just have to put a new alternator in every 35,000 or so miles. Cheaper then the clutch that goes in it every 20,000.
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No Fords in my future, ever.
From our '73 LTD wagon to my last '94 Explorer, I'm done with the brand.
If we don't buy a Smart ForTwo, I do look forward to seeing a Fiat 500 or Panda in my garage.
Hope you don't plan on the expressway. ForTwo = 0-60 in 12 seconds? I wouldn't want to get squashed like a bug getting on the interstate, myself. According to Edmunds, these things require premium fuel, too. Reviews on it are generally lousy.
I'd rather find an old VW Bug. I've had a couple, and they were the easiest things to work on I've ever seen. Complete rebuild on a '68 took me less than a day, and I had to use a book (1st time).
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I plan on keeping my old iron running for as long as humanly (or even inhumanly) possible. And not nearly as much due to "Detroit" backlash as to government and technology backlash.
The computers in pretty much all cars built and sold since about 2000, in addition to running the vehicle, also function much akin to the "black box" in commercial aircraft. The car's computer stores all sorts of data about how the car was operating, and this data can be retrieved and read -- and used against you. I have no desire to be driving a new Toyondadai Spectaculon Mark XVII if any traffic cop can just roll up, plug his portable scanner into the OBD-6 diagnostic port, and determine (with admissible prof from my very own computer) that I exceed the posted limit by 2.137 MPH for a period of 13.2 seconds, plus I rolled through a stop sign at 1.483 MPH rather than coming to a complete stop.
And I don't want or need traction control or electronic stability. That's what I have hands, feet, eyes and brakes for.
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Hope you don't plan on the expressway. ForTwo = 0-60 in 12 seconds? I wouldn't want to get squashed like a bug getting on the interstate, myself. According to Edmunds, these things require premium fuel, too. Reviews on it are generally lousy.
Heh, heh. Your (lack of) age is showing.
When I was in high school and college, 0 to 60 in 10 seconds was considered VERY fast. It was the standard to which every hot rod kid aspired. Now you consider it so slow as to be a critical hazard?
My, how things have changed.
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Heh, heh. Your (lack of) age is showing.
When I was in high school and college, 0 to 60 in 10 seconds was considered VERY fast. It was the standard to which every hot rod kid aspired. Now you consider it so slow as to be a critical hazard?
My, how things have changed.
That, and the Bug he put forward as a good alternative isn't any faster.
Chris
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Hawkmoon:
Then there's the opposite conundrum. My inspection (DFW) almost lapsed last year, because the one place I knew could perform the emissions test on my '95 Grand Cherokee didn't have the necessary chemical (supplied by the state?) to perform the test for almost three weeks. As things go, I worry that older vehicles will be increasingly difficult/expensive to keep on the road.
SADShooter
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Of course they're selling the shares. If they kept them, they couldn't always blame someone else for their screwups and the UAW employees might actually start to feel a sense of ownership and vote to do things that made sense. In fact, they might just vote out the union bosses when they saw the impact of all the moronic business decisions that would be sure to come.
I was privately wondering about this. How would the UAW strike on itself?
It had been ocurring to me this would have been a great "Walk a mile in their shoes" Atlas Shrugged kind of learning experience for them. I don't want people to lose more money, and I don't want Chrysler to die if it can be saved and function as an independant business again.
But I'd be laughing if the UAW could never divest itself of it's Chrysler shares, and suddenly was forced to deal with Chrysler in the "real world" because of it.
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That, and the Bug he put forward as a good alternative isn't any faster.
Chris
Actually, the bug is a HECK of a lot better than 12 seconds 0-60. It did as well as most 6 cylinders in that respect. That was a 4 speed, though. That funky automatic clutch thing was another story. Have you ever DRIVEN one? I may be a "young pup" at 50, but these days a 12 second 0-60 trying to enter the expressway is like a death wish. As for top end, there they are comparable. That wasn't a worry, though. 90 is fast enough for me. Mine would do that all day long after I rebuilt them.
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I just don't get the irony of it all.
We have people on this forum who espouse the American way of life, hate what WalMart sells, decry outsourcing of jobs overseas, and yet in the same breath will exhort buying foreign cars.
Nice.
The companies may be foreign owned with the home offices in Tokyo or Seoul, but most of the "foreign" cars are made here with American labor minus the criminal enterprise known as the UAW.
China manufactures all it's junk in China and imports it. No comparison.
Chrysler’s union plans to sell its shares in the struggling carmaker as quickly as possible, the United Auto Workers’ (UAW) president revealed today, as the company prepared for its third hearing in bankruptcy court
Of course. Keeping them would be in violation of their commie roots and place some responsibility for the company on their shoulders. They'd rather be the blood-sucking parasites they've always been.
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Out of interest, I decided to check vehicles from all the manufacturers that I had been considering buying from over the past couple years (disclaimer: only the vehicles I had been looking at for myself) up until now. I checked where they're assembled.
Courtesy of Wiki.
Overseas:
Honda
Accord - Japan/China/India/Malaysia/Mexico/Thailand/USA
Civic - Japan/Brazil/Canada/India/Pakistan/Taiwan/Thailand/Turkey/USA
Element - USA
Fit - Japan/Brazil/China/Indonesia/Thailand
Hyundai
Azera - Korea
Elantra - Korea/Russia
Gensis - Korea
Santa Fe - Korea/USA
Sonata - Korea/USA
Mazda
3 - Japan/Colombia
6 - Japan/China/Colombia/Thailand/USA
CX7 - Japan
MINI
Clubman - UK
Cooper - UK
Nissan
Altima - USA
Frontier - USA/Brazil
Maxima - USA
Versa - Japan/China/Malaysia/Mexico
XTerra - USA/Brazil
Subaru
Forester - Japan
Impreza - Japan
Legacy - Japan/USA
Outback - Japan/USA
Toyota
4Runner - Japan/Mexico/USA
Camry - Japan/Australia/China/Indonesia/Malaysia/Philippines/Russia/Taiwan/Thailand/USA
Corolla - Japan/Brazil/Canada/China/India/Indonesia/Malaysia/Pakistan/Philippines/South Africa/Taiwan/Thailand/Turkey/USA
FJ Cruiser - Japan
Highlander - Japan/USA
Matrix - Canada
Rav4 - Japan/Canada
Tacoma - Japan/Mexico/USA
Yaris - Japan/France/Thailand
Volkswagen
GLI - Southa Africa/Russia/China/India/Mexico
GTI - Germany/South Africa
Jetta - South Africa/Russia/China/India/Mexico
Passat - Germany
Rabbit - Germany/South Africa
Tiguan - Germany/Russia
USA:
Chevrolet
Colorado - USA/Thailand
Impala - Canada
Malibu - USA
Silverado - USA/Canada/Mexico
Chrysler
300 - Canada/Austria/China
Dodge
Avenger - USA
Caliber - USA
Challenger - Canada
Charger - Canada
Dakota - USA
Durango - USA
Ram - USA/Mexico
Ford
F-150 - USA/Brazil/Venezuela
Focus - USA
Fusion - Mexico
Mustang - USA
Ranger - USA
Taurus - USA
GMC
Canyon - USA/Thailand
Sierra - USA/Canada/Mexico
Jeep
Grand Cherokee - USA/Austria
Liberty - USA/Egypt/Venezuela
Patriot - USA
Wrangler - USA
Pontiac
G8 - Australia
Vibe - USA
Saturn
Aura - USA
Vue - Mexico
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Actually, the bug is a HECK of a lot better than 12 seconds 0-60. It did as well as most 6 cylinders in that respect. That was a 4 speed, though. That funky automatic clutch thing was another story. Have you ever DRIVEN one? I may be a "young pup" at 50, but these days a 12 second 0-60 trying to enter the expressway is like a death wish. As for top end, there they are comparable. That wasn't a worry, though. 90 is fast enough for me. Mine would do that all day long after I rebuilt them.
Actually, I drove one all through HS and College, putting over 100k on mine. I had the full manual clutch system, not the crappy auto-clutch.
As for 0-60, mine was not a good comparison because it was a custom 1700cc engine with rejetted Weber Progressive carb and header exhaust. However, a quick google search shows the early 25hp Beetles doing 0-60 in about 30 seconds and the 71 Beetle with 1600cc engine doing 0-60 in 18 seconds, hardly better than the Smartcar and certainly not better than any V6.
I've gotten onto highways with cars that couldn't do an honest sub 15sec 0-60. A friend of mine had a 25hp Beetle he used as a daily drive. The key is to not pull out in front of vehicles going faster than you.
Here's mine. Pic is from 1996:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2Fallencb%2FBug.jpg&hash=947c2bb5c4dfc8841d70fd8a7c56c94ebfeece99)
Chris
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I've gotten onto highways with cars that couldn't do an honest sub 15sec 0-60. A friend of mine had a 25hp Beetle he used as a daily drive. The key is to not pull out in front of vehicles going faster than you.
Chris
I had a 1987 Suzuki Samauri in the 1990's. I was lucky if I could get to 45mph at the bottom of the ramp. I had to keep the accelerator to the floor to cruise at 65mph.
Thing was fun in the woods though.
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Actually, I drove one all through HS and College, putting over 100k on mine. I had the full manual clutch system, not the crappy auto-clutch.
As for 0-60, mine was not a good comparison because it was a custom 1700cc engine with rejetted Weber Progressive carb and header exhaust. However, a quick google search shows the early 25hp Beetles doing 0-60 in about 30 seconds and the 71 Beetle with 1600cc engine doing 0-60 in 18 seconds, hardly better than the Smartcar and certainly not better than any V6.
I've gotten onto highways with cars that couldn't do an honest sub 15sec 0-60. A friend of mine had a 25hp Beetle he used as a daily drive. The key is to not pull out in front of vehicles going faster than you.
Here's mine. Pic is from 1996:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2Fallencb%2FBug.jpg&hash=947c2bb5c4dfc8841d70fd8a7c56c94ebfeece99)
Chris
Perhaps it's the way you drive a clutch. Even the weak sister 5 speed saturn I use as a spare does better than a 12 second 0-60, though it is close to 10. Of course you have to downshift the thing every time you hit a hill (like a bug). I had 2 '68's and a '72 super beetle. The '72 was only slightly better, but both did 0-60 in 8-9 seconds (timed). As this was real life, I believe this stat more than what a magazine article might state.
There are ramps around here that are fairly short. Failure to get up to speed by the time you reach the end of
them can be hazardous to one's health. The fact that the ForTwo takes 12 seconds, uses premium fuel, and gets two mpg less (36) than the four cylinder Saturn I own (38) fails to impress me a whole bunch.
I never checked the mpg on the Beetles, but I vividly remember driving around town all night on a quarter's worth of regular. Of course, that was in the seventies, so YMMV :laugh:
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My wife and I both have F150 pickups, a 1996 and a 1995. Her 1996 has 147k miles on it and has had zero problems. Mine has 110k miles on it and I have had to change out the transmission and rear end. The former owner beat those parts hauling a trailer load of household goods from OR to TX. It only has a 300 6. Otherwise no problems. I would like to buy a new truck but neither of us wants to give up their truck for a new one. Besides, the prices of new trucks are much too high for my blood. Who can afford a vehicle that costs more than my first three houses did. The American auto industry is still in the "it only needs to last three years mode".
Back in the 70s, I switched to foreign cars because American cars were crap. The only Crysler cars I have owned were old slant 6 small cars, which ran along time. The GM cars I have had were all money pits. I guess we will see what happens with these socialists auto companies....chris3
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The American auto industry is still in the "it only needs to last three years mode".
My personal (and therefore anecdotal, of course) experience is that this is not the case. My previous two cars, both American, a Ford and a Chevy, each reached (or surpassed) the quarter million mile mark. My current American car, an 03, has about 60K on it and is still running great. But then I drive conservatively, don't do jackrabbit starts, and make sure the maintenance is done.