Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Jocassee on June 03, 2009, 08:16:47 PM
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I don't think its any secret that we are printing money like its going out of style (and it is). Nor that on the current track we are set to experience enormous levels of inflation.
Portions of the right-wing populace are strung very tight right now. It seems to me that whenever FOX (and its editorials)* get around to making inflation or pending inflation a daily item on their broadcasts, the fear factor is going to ratchet up even higher than the 100 Days.
I have never experienced inflation or even a recession but I gather that the results are harrowing. If the strain on society begins to allow some elements to believe that collapse is even remotely possible, I believe ammunition will be impossible to find.
Discuss, add to, or correct if necessary.
*Not ragging on Fox, its just that everyone else will be behind the curve a few weeks at the least for fear of making BHO look bad.
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I have never experienced inflation or even a recession but I gather that the results are harrowing.
Ah youth. The US typically has a recession about ever 8-10 years as I recall. Some are seemingly small and certainly not noticed by children in traditional families sheltered from the realities of life. Rampant inflation is another matter and the last time that was part of American lives was in the mid 1970's to mid-1980's. The Fed significantly raised interest rates to reduce the money supply. It started in the Carter years and ended during Reagan's presidency. It was not uncommon for people to buy a home and finance it at 18-20% interest. My home loan was at 12.5% and that was considered exceptionally low. You could get regular savings account interest of 15-18% if you looked around then. Remember the Savings & Loan crisis? Probably not..... This time it is likely to be more painful.
As far as ammunition goes, who knows? Many people won't have money for food let alone ammunition.
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Neither recession, inflation nor economic collapse are going to have much effect on ammunition availability in the short to medium run. We are already seeing that manufacturers are trying to crank out as much as they can but are unable to keep up with demand, and that buyers are willing to accept almost any price increase in order to purchase ammo.
In the very long run, adjusted for tin-foil hattery, ammo could come to replace paper currency. Or, ammo could be used to make the need for paper currency/credit (at the national & international levels) no longer necessary. I honestly do not see that as a probability, as much as there are those who are talking a shooting revolution as the response to a continuing economic morass such as we are seeing currently. Believe it or not, Zimbabwe is my weather-glass.
What I forsee (like I need Madame Cleo for this) is more small purchases (higher costs + less available discretionary funds) being held, and less recreational shooting, along with a possible reduction in recreational hunting. Trainers are going to offer more airsoft- and simunitions-based work. Possibly drive-bys will involve less spray&pray and we will actually see aimed fire. Either that or drive-bys will be replaced by ambushes, although I see both using up about the same amount of ammo. I do not see gangs getting into sniping.
On a personal level, I'm shooting about half a box (25 rounds) for every 2 I buy. I'm not hoarding - honest I'm not. I'm holding on to prescious metals as an investment. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Technically we're borrowing money like it's going out of style. We haven't really been printing any.
Some people, Peter Schiff chief among them, have been pointing out that there are relatively few countries who can A) afford to buy our debt, and B) are willing to do so. Our main lenders (Japan and China are by far the biggest, followed by the Middle East) aren't that well off either, and China and places like Saudi Arabia aren't exactly our biggest fans politically.
The way I see it, we're still the world's biggest consumers. Can you really imagine China, Japan, or any OPEC country lasting long if suddenly Americans couldn't afford cheap plastic crap, flat screen TV's, or gas? They all know that if we go, they go, so it's in their interests to keep us propped up with cheap loans.
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Believe it or not, Zimbabwe is my weather-glass.
People keep saying this but I just don't see it. I've read a text or two on Zim and I lived in South Africa for a few years.
What has gone on in Zim is a total collapse of society on every level imaginable. Class, government, family, economy, agriculture, infrastructure, EVERYTHING. Not even in the case of Weimar did we see what basically amounts to intentional destruction of a country. At least Germany was still a country. Zim is not, and never again will be a country, but a kingdom ruled by whomever can get the Neo-Marxist lords to cooperate--just like medieval Britain and France.
We will not--actually can not--by virtue of our American mindset and traditions (not the least of which is firearms ownership) reach the level of Zim or even Weimar without an uprising (probably peaceful--again by virtue of mindset and traditions).
The million-dollar question is...will our politicians be able to stop the now-inevitable train wreck that is American fiscal policy, by virtue of the simple fact that the public becomes more aware of it and puts pressure on them? I do not know, because the habits of half a century and more are so ingrained that only a few (Ron Paul etc) can even envision the massive change to policy that would necessitate.
If they cannot, there will be a Second Republic--not something I desire, because I do not think we can do it right twice in a row.
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I believe ammunition will be impossible to find.
Wait, it's already impossible to find.
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I don't think its any secret that we are printing money like its going out of style (and it is). Nor that on the current track we are set to experience enormous levels of inflation.
Uh huh.
No, we are not printing money like no tomorrow. That would probably be cheaper. When the government spends more than it has coming in, a treasury security is issued to cover the difference. Someone hands cold, hard cash over to the US Treasury, and they get a security in exchange. Essentially, it's the promise to pay back the full amount plus a fixed specified interest.
'Printed' money is an extremely small percent of the entire money supply. I would be shocked if it was over 1%.
The US Treasury has never failed to pay off a security, and won't. US Treasury issued securities have the highest rating in the world. They are backed up by the US government and all of its assets.
Now, you are correct that the US government is flooding the market with Treasury securities. People predict anarchy when folks stop or sharply reduce buying T-bills. Unlikely. More likely reality is the normal supply and demand curve kicks in, and the Treasury must pay a higher interest rate.
If people stop buying T-bills for some reason, yes, the government comes to a screeching halt. They physically couldn't 'invent' enough money to cover their revenue needs. The revenue shortfall is $1.8 trillion dollars, you can't exactly just print that large of an amount.
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I went to a presentation by our chief economist. He went over the economic numbers.
1. Inflation around the world is -0.5% to 3% at most.
2. The US is right on target at 2%.
3. The forecast is that inflation is not a concern.
4. The FED has increased the money supply by 2.5x
So I raised my hand and pointedly asked how that is possible...
His explanation is that money is a commodity; the de-leveraging and required increases in reserves by all banks created such a large demand that it soaked up all the new supply. So it may turn out that they balanced pretty well.
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Aw, darn. Is the sky falling again?
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His explanation is that money is a commodity; the de-leveraging and required increases in reserves by all banks created such a large demand that it soaked up all the new supply. So it may turn out that they balanced pretty well.
Correct, for now. The Fed is engaged in quantitative easing (printing money), but if credit is being destroyed faster than it is being created, then the overall effect is still deflationary. The question is how will the Fed (and other central banks) know when to stop. Monetary and fiscal policy impacts always have a lag time. It is akin to driving a car where the brake and gas pedals take a few seconds to work. Right now the Fed is standing on the gas pedal. When they change their mind, there may not be enough time to stop.
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Aw, darn. Is the sky falling again?
Na. But the full retards in charge are trying their best to ensure it does happen. Sigh, I guess no one ever told them to never go full retard.
;)
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Na. But the full retards in charge are trying their best to ensure it does happen. Sigh, I guess no one ever told them to never go full retard.
The default setting for human governance is "Retard."
I think all of human progress is just the very few moderately sane people suppressing the full retards for a moment or three, and taking a few steps forward.
Dark Ages occur when the few non-retards are killed off or suppressed for a long enough time for the retards to have at it without opposition for too long.
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In the event of a major collapse of our economy, zimbabwean inflation, etc. I see the american people persevering by bartering, trading, laboring for food, etc.
Na. But the full retards in charge are trying their best to ensure it does happen. Sigh, I guess no one ever told them to never go full retard.
;)
I see what you did there.
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You are obviously WAY too young to remember the 1970s and the early 1980s. That was nearly a frigging DECADE and a HALF of rotten economic performance, scared as hell people who were losing their jobs, two separate Arab oil embargos, Watergate, the Iran Hostage deal, mortgage rates hitting as high as 23%...
This is a goddamned walk in the park compared to that.
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"The default setting for human governance is "Retard."
The default setting for the human race is retarded.
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I sincerely hope the experts are right about the money supply. I dread 20% annual inflation. Jimmy Carter enacted wage controls..... that didn't work.... employers used that lever to not give raises when costs were inflating. We don't need that official excuse again. Back in those days, housing prices were increasing substantially and home buyers were encouraged to buy all the house they could afford to get the loan on as wages/salaries were increasing and in a few years, the monthly mortgage was not a huge problem it was at the start of the loan. Then viable rate loans started to get more home buyers into the market... Sound familiar? I lost my butt back in those days as I did loose my job and sold my house at what it cost me 7 years earlier just to get out of the loan responsibility. (The buyer defaulted on the loan in 6-months which I still chuckle about to myself. Never made a single house payment.) Home appreciation? What's that?
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Irwin speaketh truth. The 70's sucked. It wasn't until half way through the 80's that things improved.
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Back to the OP about ammo, I cannot find ball ammo in 9mm or .38 on the shelves in Central Ohio. The standard line from the man (or woman) behind the counter is that the last shipment was bought up as quickly as it was put on the shelves. I can find the occassional box of quality duty ammo, but generally is running around $1-$1.50 per round. Not what I want to spend for putting holes in paper.
We get back to the basic issue of why demand is so high. Fear. Fear of government bans on guns and ammo. Fears that the financial problems will lead to increased lawlessness. In central Ohio, the financial problems are leading to cuts in law enforcement, which is making the demand for guns and ammo even higher, out of fears of chaos in the streets.
I wish that I had invested in the space for, and equipment for, reloading back when I had the chance, but instead I turned the space into a playroom for my sons. Back then, I saw Blazer Brass 9mm for $6.99 a box. Nveer thought that supply would dry up.
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The gun show I went to last weekend had plenty of ammo, a first, however, it was not cheap. There were primers too, expensive. I expect the same at the show this weekend because it will be a bigger show......chris3
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two separate Arab oil embargos, Watergate, the Iran Hostage deal, mortgage rates hitting as high as 23%...
I can excuse young people on this somewhat, because reading about history isn't the same as living it. I can't excuse the politicians who are crying "end of the world" now that were waiting in the same gas lines as me (admittedly in the back seat of the car listening to my dad cuss about the damn government) during gas rationing and paying the same 18% mortgage that I paid on the first house I ever bought. Not to mention we were all preparing to freeze to death in the coming Ice Age.
This is indeed a walk in the park, relatively speaking.
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Back then, I saw Blazer Brass 9mm for $6.99 a box. Nveer thought that supply would dry up.
I thought the same when WWB was $9.99 for a 100 round box three years ago at Walmart. Now its $19.98 if you can find it.
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" A walk in the park?" You guys have been smokin' too much hopium. That is like saying "this ain't too bad "as you pass the 22nd story in free fall. Every single economic indicator is screaming "RUN"! "HIDE"!
Do you think the the Chinese were laughing at Giethner for no reason when he assured them thier assets were safe?
We are losing 600,000 jobs a month. -The Gov. is borrowing half of every dollar it spends.-Tax receipts are down 34% year over year. -The deficit will soon approach our entire GDP.- The unfunded liabilities for entitlement programs are equivalent to the value of the entire USA. -Two more alt arm reset bumps are coming, and a hell of a lot of folks are underwater already. - Imports and exports are down hugely.-
This list of doom goes on and on- but this thing is going to get way, way worse and I expect it to be a decade long. Every attempt is being made to put a positive shine on it- We know quite well how the MSM sucks up to the PTB. The financial blogs have a very different take.
Along with this we have a popular marxist in power who is consolidating political power with great speed. Like the new "cyber czar", UNDER WHITE HOUSE CONTROL. Like the moving of the Census, UNDER WHITE HOUSE CONTROL. Like the moving of the Forest service, from Agriculture(income) to Interior(greenies) . Like the nationalizing of the auto industry- and the banks. -And the appointment of marxist minions throughout. And a press so supine with moaning estacy they will not say a word in criticism . Can you imagine how the would have ripped BUSH if he said the Constitution was 20 centuries old? Or the US having 57 states?
We are in for a real rough ride. Some may feel it is OK because they personally have not been affected yet- but the time is coming when this is going to wash over us all.
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"Every single economic indicator is screaming "RUN"! "HIDE"!"
Again, you really need to acquaint yourself with the 1970s. The HISTORIC 1970s/1980s, and compare them to your HYSTERICAL 2000s.
Who knows, this period may well turn out to be worse than the 1970s/early 1980s, but right now it is not. It's just people like you who are in screaming fits of fear who are ASSUMING that this is just the entry into the end of the world as we know it and that we're all going to end up being owned by the Chinese and living in mud huts.
No period of economic turmoil is exactly like any other period, but unfortunately it seems like the attitudes of the people never change.
Back in the 1990s when things slowed down after Gulf War I lots of people were screaming at the top of their lungs, just as you are right now, that it was end times and that America was finished as an economic power.
Look. We have no clue what the future is going to bring with this period of economic turmoil.
But people like you certainly don't help anyone by going all cataonic with fear and predicting the imminent, unavoidable doom of the American economy.
So, my advice to you, and everyone else, is get your heads out of your butts, get your emotion selector out of "Fear/Panic" mode, and change your shorts.
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Along with this we have a popular marxist in power who is consolidating political power with great speed. Like the new "cyber czar", UNDER WHITE HOUSE CONTROL. Like the moving of the Census, UNDER WHITE HOUSE CONTROL. Like the moving of the Forest service, from Agriculture(income) to Interior(greenies) . Like the nationalizing of the auto industry- and the banks. -And the appointment of marxist minions throughout. And a press so supine with moaning estacy they will not say a word in criticism . Can you imagine how the would have ripped BUSH if he said the Constitution was 20 centuries old? Or the US having 57 states?
This might still sound tin foil hattish right now, but I forsee restrictions on food to be coming soon after the banks fold or are nationalized. If Mao was able to starve 50 million people to death in an agrarian society, it should be a walk in the park to restrict distribution of food in a highly industrial and technological society. Someone should mark this post to revisit it in 2 years to see if I'm right (unless the internet czar pulls the plug on such internet prattle by then).
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No, someone should again tell you all to get your heads out of your asses, get your fear switch out of "paranoid/we're doomed," and stop trying to do your best impersonation of Cpl. Hudson's "We're on an express elevator to hell; going down! Hey, maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but we just got our asses kicked! That's it man, game over man, game over! What the heck are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?"
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I think the BEST thing that could happen to the U.S. would be a complete collapse of the MSM.
It would fix everything from the center-left bias, and all the variations of criminal, environmental, and economic alarmisim...
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" A walk in the park?" You guys have been smokin' too much hopium. That is like saying "this ain't too bad "as you pass the 22nd story in free fall. Every single economic indicator is screaming "RUN"! "HIDE"!
Do you think the the Chinese were laughing at Giethner for no reason when he assured them thier assets were safe?
We are losing 600,000 jobs a month. -The Gov. is borrowing half of every dollar it spends.-Tax receipts are down 34% year over year. -The deficit will soon approach our entire GDP.- The unfunded liabilities for entitlement programs are equivalent to the value of the entire USA. -Two more alt arm reset bumps are coming, and a hell of a lot of folks are underwater already. - Imports and exports are down hugely.-
This list of doom goes on and on- but this thing is going to get way, way worse and I expect it to be a decade long. Every attempt is being made to put a positive shine on it- We know quite well how the MSM sucks up to the PTB. The financial blogs have a very different take.
Along with this we have a popular marxist in power who is consolidating political power with great speed. Like the new "cyber czar", UNDER WHITE HOUSE CONTROL. Like the moving of the Census, UNDER WHITE HOUSE CONTROL. Like the moving of the Forest service, from Agriculture(income) to Interior(greenies) . Like the nationalizing of the auto industry- and the banks. -And the appointment of marxist minions throughout. And a press so supine with moaning estacy they will not say a word in criticism . Can you imagine how the would have ripped BUSH if he said the Constitution was 20 centuries old? Or the US having 57 states?
We are in for a real rough ride. Some may feel it is OK because they personally have not been affected yet- but the time is coming when this is going to wash over us all.
Before you make another post google
1980's Farm Crisis
1970's Mortgage Rates
1970's inflation
Lee Iacocca and Chrysler Corportation
1980's Caterpillar Corporation
1970's Oil Embargo
Early 90's recession
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Let's not forget the ENORMOUS deficits that the Reagan Administration ran in the 1980s building up American military power.
Which led to a whole different round of handwringing and pants wetting...
Oh hell, and how can we forget the screeching mimis who, upon realizing that the United States was going to rebuild its military and provide a firm deterrent to the Soviet Union, started wailing about how the US should realize that we had already lost to the Soviets and if we tried to gain parity with them they were just going to swat us down and that we shouldn't provoke the Bear.... :rolleyes:
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Back in the 1990s when things slowed down after Gulf War I lots of people were screaming at the top of their lungs, just as you are right now, that it was end times and that America was finished as an economic power.
That's a very good argument against the reasoning that if these some people are scared, I should be scared also.
Somewhat lacking in addressing his specific points regarding the situation though.
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Well, as for addressing specific points...
Fear -- addressed it.
Doom -- addressed it.
Gloom -- addressed it.
We're through, man! Game over! -- addressed it.
As far as I'm concerned, those are the only TRULY specific points in messages such as this.
The rest are just wild assed predictions based on a desire to feel as bad about oneself and one's future as is humanly possible.
It's tired, it's old, and it's counter productive. And, as I've said, I've seen it all before. The faces doing the screeching change, but the overall prediction remains the same "THE UNITED STATES IS FINISHED! THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF END TIMES!
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It's tired, it's old, and it's counter productive. And, as I've said, I've seen it all before. The faces doing the screeching change, but the overall prediction remains the same "THE UNITED STATES IS FINISHED! THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF END TIMES!
Panic of 1873 comes to mind. Guess what we are still here. :)
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Back to the ammo hording/ammo as currency theme....
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.a-human-right.com%2F20years2_s.jpg&hash=7a6b47f20f7ed256401d97abedf993bdc5b48b8b)
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I think it's far more likely that fear-urine-soaked underwear will become a new media of exchange.
After all, if you listen to some of the gloom screamers no one is going to have any ammo because Obama is personally shutting off ammo availability to the civilan market.
Every day he goes to Winchester, Remington, etc., and randomly pulls the plug on another machine.
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Discuss, add to, or correct if necessary.
Be wary of thread starters ending with the above statement. =|
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After all, if you listen to some of the gloom screamers no one is going to have any ammo because Obama is personally shutting off ammo availability to the civilan market.
I can't wait until the day when all of the mega horders decide that they don't need 75,000 primers and start dumping them at fire sale prices. I'm shooting up the last of my small rifle primers at this weekend's match, and will have to switch over to the M1 for the rest of the year if things keep going like they've been. :mad:
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I can't wait until the day when all of the mega horders decide that they don't need 75,000 primers and start dumping them at fire sale prices.
If it was simple hoarding, you'd think the hoarders would be running out of places to store their hoarded goods by now . . .
Or are there a lot of new garages and pole barns going up in the hinterlands?
. . . Obama is personally shutting off ammo availability to the civilan market. Every day he goes to Winchester, Remington, etc., and randomly pulls the plug on another machine.
AHA! I KNEW IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!! CALL DRUDGE!!!
:laugh:
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If it was simple hoarding, you'd think the hoarders would be running out of places to store their hoarded goods by now . . .
Or are there a lot of new garages and pole barns going up in the hinterlands?
I've been to gun shows lately- there is no shortage of primers or ammo there, you can buy truckloads of ammo if you are willing to pay $1/round for combloc 7.62x39 or $1.50/rd for surplus 556.
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Be wary of thread starters ending with the above statement. =|
Put it on there cuz I don't know nuthin', bein' a wet behind the ears fresh out of collidge gradgee-ate.
I was born in 1987 and entered the job market in 2004...I ain't seen nuthin' yet.
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Mike, you seem to enjoy calling me a urine soaked doom screamer- But yet I see no explanation or repudiation of any of the factors of concern I listed. -None- your response sounds emotion laden, but free from fact. And yes, I lived through the 70's, and paid off my land with a 14% interest. And went through the 80's, unemployed at times , and lost 1/2 my stock investments in the tech crash, and never worried a lick about Y2K- things are different this time, and there are a LOT of folks who agree with me, who have spent thier lives working on this stuff- Or would you rather believe Ben or Timmie- I mean, they have such great track records...
Your take , as I see it, is this is no big deal.
My take, is we have factors in play that are vastly different than previous recesssions and things are going to get much worse.
So because I am a pantie wringing , purple pissing doom sayer, help me out here- tell why I should be optimistic about the economy. If you can't state the reasons, don't bother with the underwear talk. I have stated the reasons I am pessimistic- do me the consideration of replying in kind.
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I just bought a case of new brass-cased 55 grain .223 for 33 cent per round. (36 cents including shipping)
Stores are still bare, but ammo available from internet specialists. Seems to be getting better in the past couple of weeks.
Edit: I used to buy a box a week of ammo to sock away. I wish I had kept it up, just for the savings alone.
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Yes, it is a big deal. We're in troubling economic times. Is there a lot of reason to be enthusiastic about the economy right now? Not really, but there's absolutely no reason to look at what's going on and deliver the eulogy for America.
"And yes, I lived through the 70's"
Were you this emotionally distraught during the 1970s and early 1980s? During Watergate, when the entire foundation of the American form of Government seemed to be crumbling?
When Arab nations shut off the oil taps not once, but twice?
When the United States was an international laughing stock because we couldn't even figure out how to deal with a bunch of students in a backwater third world nation who took a bunch of our citizens hostage?
Did the Republic come crashing down during the massive social upheaval of the late 1960s and into the 1970s, what with domestic terrorism and National Guard troops killing students at Kent State?
When inflation was approaching 10%?
When unemployment broke through 10% nationally, and in some parts of the country, with the collapse of the steel and partial collapse of the coal industries, hit as high as 90%?
When some of the supposedly best and brightest minds in Government and Academia were ready to place the tombstone on the American dream and American standing both at home and abroad, and were looking at the Soviet Union as the new trend and rule setter?
No?
Yep, that's right. You managed your way through those situations, painful as it might have been, and prospered, or at least made it this far. You apparently paid off your land at 14% interest. Catastrophic end of the world? Nope, money out of your pocket. Nothing more.
Things are ALWAYS "different" this time.
The supposed "factors" that you cite as new, ominous, and which will apparently result in the catastrophic collapse of the nation are also nothing new.
During the 1930s foreign investment in this country was, proportionally, not far off what it is now. At the height of the depression unemployment was 25%. The creation of the social services state under Roosevelt resulted in MASSIVE deficits at a time when tax revenues were plummeting and the GDP was contracting faster than anything seen in history, hundreds of thousands were thrown out of their homes and off their land by foreclosure, resulting in the largest peace-time migration in American history, and yet somehow the Republic survived.
"there are a LOT of folks who agree with me, who have spent thier lives working on this stuff-"
Just as there are a LOT of folks who work on this stuff and who believe the doomsayers and endtimes predictors are wrong.
Know what that means?
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY.
And yet, through it all the Republic has survived. Not unscathed, not unchanged, but it has, oddly enough survived.
I think that's what troubles me worst of all about people of your ilk, the people who just nonchalantly shrug their shoulders and say "well, I guess that's that, we can't do anything, history has us this time, we're screwed."
You look at the problems we're facing as if they are wholly new, wholly perplexing, and wholly insurmountable.
Every generation has had that, and every generation has proven them to be wrong.
Are you going to be wrong this time? I think so. Can I prove that any more than you can definitively prove that this IS the demise of America's economy, influence, and everything else? No.
But I like to think that the American traits of innovation, invention, reinvention, and incorporation haven't totally been stripped from the fabric of the nation like you apparently believe they have been.
I also like to think that far more Americans actually are willing to see a bright future and work towards it rather than spend their time wallowing in fear and defeatism and working as hard as they can to bring that dark view to life.
Simply put, then, anyone can make any predictions that they want about the future based on a discrete set of factors that exist at that time. Americans have been doing that, and predicting the collapse of America and the American way of life.
But so far?
They're 0 of everything, and given different situations that this country has faced in the past, they're going to continue to be 0 for everything.
So, I'll say it again. Stop screaming doom and gloom and rubbing your hands in glee at the prospects. Should you be concerned? Yes. Express your concern, but get out of the doom, gloom, self pity and blase acceptance pit that you all have seem to have jumped into.
It's almost perverse the joy that some people take in predicting that this is the end of all.
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If it was simple hoarding, you'd think the hoarders would be running out of places to store their hoarded goods by now . . .
Or are there a lot of new garages and pole barns going up in the hinterlands?
See, this economy's so bad, the ammo-hoarders are selling everything else, just to scrape by. No need for a new pole barn when your garage and tool shed are now empty. And think how much more room us starving folks have around the house, after we eat our children. =)
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But I like to think that the American traits of innovation, invention, reinvention, and incorporation haven't totally been stripped from the fabric of the nation like you apparently believe they have been.
Mike you are absolutely right.
To the Doomsayers and Chicken Little's.
Myself for instance is trying to figure out how to change my life and go into business for myself on somewhat of a larger scale than a typical small business. I have an idea and I have some folks who are serious to invest, now I'm trying to figure out the hoops to get started. Its an idea from something I came up in college as something I could see myself doing for the rest of my life. Something that will float in good times and in bad.
I also have a couple of other friends thinking the same thing for different business ventures. I really think that some of the panic/fear of losing a job has gotten our minds spinning in looking elsewhere for a livelihood.
There were people who got stinking rich during the depression and likewise for the other economic downturns. You can sit there whine about how sky is crashing and were fubar'd or you can get that mind going and find a way to persevere.
Get positive!
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I recently met a guy who lost his job sometime last fall. He has opened a clothing store, and is scrambling to get into as many other business ventures as he can.
FWIW, he was wearing an Obama t-shirt.
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I recently met a guy who lost his job sometime last fall. He has opened a clothing store, and is scrambling to get into as many other business ventures as he can.
FWIW, he was wearing an Obama t-shirt.
Are you sure it wasn't a Carlton t-shirt? :P
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Mike, thank you for saying my concerns have some validity. - please believe I have absolutely no sense of "glee" or "joy" whatsoever- I do not know where you got that.
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I am not a doomer by any means. He tracked over this recessions numbers in the meeting. The numbers for this recession cycle is worse and deeper than all of these decades:
1980's Farm Crisis
1970's Mortgage Rates
1970's inflation
Lee Iacocca and Chrysler Corportation
1980's Caterpillar Corporation
1970's Oil Embargo
Early 90's recession
plus the 40's, 50's, 60's.
He made it quit clear this is the worst since right after WW2. We can't compare to the 30's because we don't have the appropriate data. There is only one way this thing is better than the 30s. We expect it to turn around in the next few years. And return to 2008's high by 2012 or 2014. Of course, projecting out that far is really sketchy.
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"1. Inflation around the world is -0.5% to 3% at most."
Say what?
Inflation in over half the world is running double digits and has been for a number of years.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2092.html
Yes, in most cases, the inflation rates are 2008 estimates, but I'd be shocked if they're much lower than what is listed.
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During Watergate, when the entire foundation of the American form of Government seemed to be crumbling?
Watergate wasn't that big a deal outside the breathless hysterics of the network anchors - I mean, Main Street really didn't care that crooked politicians did crooked things to one another; it didn't impact Joe Sixpack.Inflation in over half the world is running double digits and has been for a number of years.
I track my budget via spreadsheet, and based on what I can see, I don't have a lot of confidence in "official government" numbers for inflation in the US either; my impression is that .gov puts out numbers that are artificially low by cherry-picking data and omitting whatever doesn't fit their desired results. (I see on Mike's link that Zimbabwe's inflation was 11.2 million percent in 2008. The latest number I saw is that it was running at 231 million percent . . . per month. :O I don't think things will get that bad here.)
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You are obviously WAY too young to remember the 1970s and the early 1980s. That was nearly a frigging DECADE and a HALF of rotten economic performance, scared as hell people who were losing their jobs, two separate Arab oil embargos, Watergate, the Iran Hostage deal, mortgage rates hitting as high as 23%...
This is a goddamned walk in the park compared to that.
NOOOOOOO!!!! This is worse because OBAMA got elected!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DAMNIT!!!!!!!
:laugh:
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I would be interested in seeing numbers or a chart of some type comparing this economic trouble with the previous ones Mike listed. All this name calling and statements without support are interesting I'm sure, but not terribly helpful in drawing accurate conclusions.