Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on August 15, 2009, 12:51:34 AM
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Apparently this has been in the news for a while, but slow-witted me just learned about it. Literally "off the radar" for over two weeks. I'm baffled as to what could have been going on, especially since this happened off the coast of Europe, versus say, Somalia. You would think if they were raided that someone would have gotten a signal out, even if only activating a personal EPIRB or something. I tend to think maybe something was going on that some, if not all the crew were in on. Either that or zombies.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090815/ap_on_re_eu/missing_ship_17
Missing cargo ship found near Cape Verde
By LYNN BERRY, Associated Press Writer Lynn Berry, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 45 mins ago
MOSCOW – A Russian-manned cargo ship that vanished last month in the Atlantic was found Friday near Cape Verde off the coast of West Africa, according to French and Russian officials. There was no immediate information about the condition of the crew or whether there was anyone else on board.
The Arctic Sea — carrying a load of timber and 15 Russian sailors — disappeared after passing through the English Channel on July 28. The Maltese-flagged freighter sent radio messages as it sailed along the coasts of France and Portugal, but then all contact was lost.
"Cape Verde coast guards said they have located the boat" about 520 miles (840 kilometers) off Cape Verde, said French Defense Ministry spokesman Capt. Jerome Baroe. France was involved in search efforts together with several other countries.
Two military officials in Brussels separately confirmed the ship had been tracked and located off West Africa. The officials asked not to be named while the operation was ongoing.
Russian naval ships were ordered to pursue the ship after the Cape Verde coast guard reported the freighter was outside the country's territorial waters to the north, Russian Ambassador to Cape Verde Alexander Karpushin told The Associated Press.
The ambassador did not say when the naval ships were expected to arrive in the area. The four ships involved in the search, including a frigate, had entered the Atlantic late Tuesday. Their whereabouts Friday were unknown.
It also was unclear whether the freighter had laid anchor or was continuing to sail south. It had enough food and fuel to last through the end of the month, the ship's Russian operator said.
The ship's crew had reported a June 24 attack in Swedish waters by up to a dozen masked men, who they said tied them up, questioned them about drug trafficking, beat them and searched the freighter before leaving 12 hours later in a high-speed inflatable boat.
The alleged attack, unusual in itself, raised further concerns because it was not reported until the freighter had passed through Britain's busy shipping lanes and was heading out into the wide Atlantic. There have been fears that some of the attackers might still be aboard.
The Arctic Sea, which left from Finland on June 23, had been due to make port Aug. 4 in Algeria with its euro1.3 million ($1.8 million) haul of timber.
The European Commission suggested the ship may have come under attack a second time. "Radio calls were apparently received from the ship, which had supposedly been under attack twice, the first time off the Swedish coast and then off the Portuguese coast," said commission spokesman Martin Selmayr. He said he could add no further comment so as not to hinder the ongoing law enforcement activities.
The Portuguese Foreign Ministry said, however, that the ship was never in Portuguese territorial waters.
The ship's operator, Solchart Arkhangelsk, said it had no information about a possible second attack. Company officials said all attempts to communicate with the crew have failed.
The ship's captain is 50-year-old Sergei Zaretsky, a veteran of such sea voyages, said Solchart deputy director Ivan Boiko. All of the sailors are from Arkhangelsk, a port city in the far northwest of Russia.
French maritime authorities said they received radio messages on July 29 as the ship sailed past the north coast of France. The Arctic Sea's report to British maritime authorities as it passed through the Dover Strait, one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, was the last known voice contact with the crew.
Speculation on what might have happened to the ship has ranged from suspicions that it was carrying secret cargo — possibly narcotics — to theories about a commercial dispute. Security experts have been wary of attributing its disappearance to bandits, noting that piracy is almost unheard of in European waters.
"It would seem that these acts, such as they have been reported, have nothing in common with 'traditional' acts of piracy or armed robbery at sea," Selmayr said.
David Osler, a maritime journalist at Lloyd's List in London, said there are three main types of piracy. There is the sort seen in Somalia, where a gang takes the ship and the captain, and demands a ransom in return for release.
In the Far East, criminals would steal the entire ship, repaint it and trade it — creating what are called "phantom ships," Osler said in an interview.
And in less developed areas, piracy has sometimes been more like armed robbery, he said, noting that ships often carry cash around for necessities while traveling. "It's like holding up the local liquor store," he said. "It's just for cash."
Osler said the 18-year-old Arctic Sea was not particularly valuable. "The ship isn't really worth stealing," he said, noting most such ships have a life of 20-25 years.
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Definetly something fishy going on. Guaranteed to be smuggling something. I wonder what though. Speculations on Flashback are on the 55th page or so right now, with someone bringing up suitcase nukes as the latest possible theory about what they had on the ship that the pirates/hijackers were willing to spend 12 hours looking for...
My own theory is that they had technology of some kind headed for an unknown buyer. I'd be surprised if it's still on the ship.
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Definetly something fishy going on. Guaranteed to be smuggling something. I wonder what though. Speculations on Flashback are on the 55th page or so right now, with someone bringing up suitcase nukes as the latest possible theory about what they had on the ship that the pirates/hijackers were willing to spend 12 hours looking for...
My own theory is that they had technology of some kind headed for an unknown buyer. I'd be surprised if it's still on the ship.
One thing I've noticed is that if someone brings up suitcase nukes, it's safe to dismiss what the person is saying. "Overhyped" doesn't touch on the subject. The ones that were built (kinda similiar to arty nukes) had a circa .1-.5 kt yield, which makes them essentially in the same range as a large truck bomb. They were moreso intended as demolition munitions, moreso than weapons, as they're not great weapons.
My guess is they were hijacked because folks either thought there was contraband onhand or intended to use the ship to move contraband. Most folks don't mount commando raids for a shipment of timber. If there was 'secret' nukes, tech, alien corpses, whatever on board, they'd have security forces onboard. Drugs or other contraband? No need for security forces.
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One thing I've noticed is that if someone brings up suitcase nukes, it's safe to dismiss what the person is saying. "Overhyped" doesn't touch on the subject. The ones that were built (kinda similiar to arty nukes) had a circa .1-.5 kt yield, which makes them essentially in the same range as a large truck bomb. They were moreso intended as demolition munitions, moreso than weapons, as they're not great weapons.
My guess is they were hijacked because folks either thought there was contraband onhand or intended to use the ship to move contraband. Most folks don't mount commando raids for a shipment of timber. If there was 'secret' nukes, tech, alien corpses, whatever on board, they'd have security forces onboard. Drugs or other contraband? No need for security forces.
I don't think they had those either, but they probably had something on board, or something was brought on board when they got intercepted by the RIB. I would be surprised if whatever they had is still on the ship though. Seeing that they remained invisible for some time probably means they met up with yet another ship and then unloaded whatever they were smuggling onto them, possibly going with them. Afterwards, who can tell what they smuggled? I think that this will die down, and we might find out what happened years from now...
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One thing I've noticed is that if someone brings up suitcase nukes, it's safe to dismiss what the person is saying. "Overhyped" doesn't touch on the subject. The ones that were built (kinda similiar to arty nukes) had a circa .1-.5 kt yield, which makes them essentially in the same range as a large truck bomb. They were moreso intended as demolition munitions, moreso than weapons, as they're not great weapons.
Could they perhaps be used as part of a 'Dirty Bomb'? Surround it in lower grade nasty stuff and it could be useful to some groups.
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According to the news this morning (Saturday), the ship is still (or again) missing, and a ransom demand has been received.
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According to the news this morning (Saturday), the ship is still (or again) missing, and a ransom demand has been received.
Why would they wait two weeks with the demands for ransom?
Also, I'm reading up on this on a Swedish forum where the members have followed this since the first report of a hijacking, and there's a lot of confusion going around, that's for sure. One minute they claim to have it in view, the next the ship is nowhere to be found, the minute after this the Russians claim to have contact with the ship, the minute after they claim they haven't heard a sound from it, etc...
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And the ship (when it appears at all) appears to be simultaneously near the Cape Verde Islands, or else 3,000 km north of the Cape Verde Islands, or in the Bay of Biscay ...
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And the ship (when it appears at all) appears to be simultaneously near the Cape Verde Islands, or else 3,000 km north of the Cape Verde Islands, or in the Bay of Biscay ...
Philadelphia Experiment?
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Philadelphia Experiment?
Yep. Used alongside a top secret teleportation device, no doubt. =D
If teleportation is ever invented I want a device. Right now it's only a dream, as far as I know.
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Latest from BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8203210.stm
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Could they perhaps be used as part of a 'Dirty Bomb'? Surround it in lower grade nasty stuff and it could be useful to some groups.
Yes... But actually, no.
A special atomic demo munition (SADM, usually a W54) is somewhat useful for being a radiological bomb (the correct term for 'dirty bomb'). But it'd be easier, cheaper, harder to trace and more efficient to surround a conventional bomb with cessium wafers or whatever. Mininukes by definition don't have much radiological material to begin with. Additionally, nuke material are relatively easy to trace in their point of origin. Gewehr flew one of the US assets that could do so. NEST has other kit to do the same stuff.
Buying or steal bits of medical radiological stuff is a bit more deniable and significantly easier to accomplish. Folks have already accidentally mixed in radiologicals with other recycleables.
The other aspect is that nukes have a shelf life. It varies dependent on design, maintenance, etc. The fissionable material is good for quite some time. The 'physics package' and ancillary kit isn't. Usually between a decade or two. If you're using a Fermi-Teller-Ulam classic thermonuclear fusion weapon (which isn't the case with mininukes), then you have issues with lithium-6 deuteride and such. SADM's are very simple fission weapons, but still, they'd been to be refurb'd every 5-15 years to keep them in good working order.
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How do you know so much? :police:
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Still, there's got to be something about that ship and it's cargo that the US, Russian, Finnish, French, Portugese, Swedish, Maltese etc authorities know that they obviously aren't leaking to the press. If what I've read is true, the Russians have sent parts of their Black Sea fleet to look for it. You usually don't send out nuclear submarines, cruisers and such just to find 15 men, an old ship and a load of timber. So what the hell is on that ship?
IIRC, the ship had made a stop in Kalinigrad before they got the cargo from Finland. What's in Kalinigrad that people might want smuggled to them? Anything that would attract the amount of interest we're seeing? I bet it's more than just a few AK-47's...
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So what the hell is on that ship?
Well, have you read Monster Hunter International? I thought of that book immediately upon hearing about this "missing" ship.
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Well, have you read Monster Hunter International? I thought of that book immediately upon hearing about this "missing" ship.
Dude, never thought about that one :O.
So the ship was probably carrying some sort of relic then? :O
Crap. Where did I put my silver necklace? I need to melt it down and coat the pommel of my cane with it...
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How do you know so much? :police:
Nothing exciting, I did a paper on SADM's and mininukes for my "Sociology of Terrorism" class back in college that debunked a lot of the propaganda about them. Ever since, my brain hurts when I hear folks treating "nuculur" weapons as some kind of magical super-destructive device.
Well, have you read Monster Hunter International? I thought of that book immediately upon hearing about this "missing" ship.
Good point... Screw the contract, nuke the ****ing thing! Unless an AEGIS cruiser wants to see how quickly they can kill a gargoyle.
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Nothing exciting, I did a paper on SADM's and mininukes for my "Sociology of Terrorism" class back in college that debunked a lot of the propaganda about them. Ever since, my brain hurts when I hear folks treating "nuculur" weapons as some kind of magical super-destructive device.
To be fair, Rev.
A SADM has the yield of anywhere between 10 tons and 1 kiloton of TNT, according to Wiki. Let's say it's jsut 10 tons, to be very conservative here.
It's still a 10-ton bomb that weighs 80 kilograms and can fit in a car trunk. You can smuggle that places, and probably level/damage an appartment building or a dam with the correct application [remember that dam-buster bombs had a far smaller yield].
Imagine a bomb like this going off on the Aswan dam, in Egypt.
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Nothing exciting, I did a paper on SADM's and mininukes for my "Sociology of Terrorism" class back in college that debunked a lot of the propaganda about them. Ever since, my brain hurts when I hear folks treating "nuculur" weapons as some kind of magical super-destructive device.
Still, standing too close to one when it detonates would surely ruin your day :police:.
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A "dirty bomb" with a tiny fission core would be an absolute waste of a gun-type or implosion fission trigger.
It's much easier and more efficient to wrap conventional HE with the radionuclide package and deliver it that way.
BTW, Wikipedia is far from the last word on nuclear weapons technology. When my USAF CNWDI access was still active, that was the first place I went to get my reference material. =D
Putting a fission device on a stolen cargo ship isn't the best terrorist bang for the jihad buck, either. You're only going to mess up a harbor, vs. bigger, juicier targets.
We always joked about a baby food jar of anthrax spores carried and released into the NFL SuperBowl, but you get my drift...
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Ever since, my brain hurts when I hear folks treating "nuculur" weapons as some kind of magical super-destructive device.
verily if they were many more folks woulda died in japan. in fact if folks had a clue then and left the area instead of hanging out in the intense fallout zone and eating and drinking contaminated food and water the casualties woulda been even lower. thats why i'm not too skeert living south of sodom on the potomac.
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I suppose no one could have truly known the exact effects on those two targets. The people there wouldn't have had a clue what they were hit with, if they survived.
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And now it's been found again. Crew are now on board a military ship, so probably it won't disappear again. :)
The linked story says they'll announce what happened later today.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_eu/missing_ship_2
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Anyone else think of the cargo ship scene from MHI when that thing went missing?
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Anyone else think of the cargo ship scene from MHI when that thing went missing?
WOW! I must be developing psychic powers cause it feels like this already happened, somehow...
Well, have you read Monster Hunter International? I thought of that book immediately upon hearing about this "missing" ship.
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Hey -- no spoilers! I just got it and am only on chapter 1. :laugh:
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Hey -- no spoilers! I just got it and am only on chapter 1. :laugh:
I just finished it my second time (I was quite impressed).
I'll avoid telling you about the zombie horde that eats his brain at the end.
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I'll avoid telling you about the zombie horde that eats his brain at the end.
Larry's or the lead character's? :P
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Larry's or the lead character's? :P
Yes.
(Of note, I wouldn't actually post a spoiler because of how much I would hate that. Rest assured there are no brain eating zombies.)
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WOW! I must be developing psychic powers cause it feels like this already happened, somehow...
That's what I get for not reading the thread... ;/ :police:
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I get the PUFF on the Cursed One!
Sawdust
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One thing I've noticed is that if someone brings up suitcase nukes, it's safe to dismiss what the person is saying.
I prefer "wheeled garment bag" nukes, for their roll-on/roll-off capability and ability to fit in the overhead bin.
Yes.
(Of note, I wouldn't actually post a spoiler because of how much I would hate that. Rest assured there are no brain eating zombies.)
To some of us, the non-existence of brain-eating zombies is a spoiler.
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To some of us, the non-existence of brain-eating zombies is a spoiler.
Brain-eating zombies are probably being saved for the sequel.
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I prefer "wheeled garment bag" nukes, for their roll-on/roll-off capability and ability to fit in the overhead bin.
To some of us, the non-existence of brain-eating zombies is a spoiler.
Sorry, I was unclear: The characters don't get eaten by brain-eating zombies.
I did not mean to imply the zombies did not exist (either in the novel or in the world created by the novel).
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Missing Cargo Ship Found
Literally "off the radar" for over two weeks.
Hmm. Anchored off the Louisiana coast (http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/), nothing living aboard (but not abandoned), missing one lifeboat?
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Hmm. Anchored off the Louisiana coast (http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/), nothing living aboard (but not abandoned), missing one lifeboat?
It was the Georgia-Carolina coast.
For the record.
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Well, they report it was all an ordinary hijacking. I'm still not convinced something fishy wasn't going on (drugs or something). The story below has some interesting quotes about it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_re_eu/missing_ship_18
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I prefer "wheeled garment bag" nukes, for their roll-on/roll-off capability and ability to fit in the overhead bin.
So....now we have the true story of Billy Mays' death..... :O
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Buying or steal bits of medical radiological stuff is a bit more deniable and significantly easier to accomplish. Folks have already accidentally mixed in radiologicals with other recycleables.
Remember the mess from David Hahn's backyard reactor, or the aftermath of the Goiania incident? Stuff a stick of dynamite into a few pounds of hot waste, spread it around real well, and NEST will take care of the terrorism for you.
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Well, they report it was all an ordinary hijacking. I'm still not convinced something fishy wasn't going on (drugs or something). The story below has some interesting quotes about it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_re_eu/missing_ship_18
Yep, everything is explained now, they sent out atleast 8 men to hijack a ship and then they only ask for a paltry $1.5 million in ransom? 1.5 million that I guess have to cover costs for travels, equipment, perhaps some groundcrew, and also net them a profit? Yeah right. If they honestly believe that, well then I have this bridge in Brooklyn that's up for sale :rolleyes:.
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Remember the mess from David Hahn's backyard reactor, or the aftermath of the Goiania incident? Stuff a stick of dynamite into a few pounds of hot waste, spread it around real well, and NEST will take care of the terrorism for you.
Nuke boy! Allegedly, dude is still 'hot' (in a radioactive sense, you idjits!).
Na. Hear about the Texas thing back in 2006? Steel contaminated with cesium-137 was recycled... Allegedly only 250 tons of steel were contaminated. Heard a rumor that cesium thingies from an MRI once got directly mixed into a load of steel being recycled.
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Yep, everything is explained now, they sent out atleast 8 men to hijack a ship and then they only ask for a paltry $1.5 million in ransom? 1.5 million that I guess have to cover costs for travels, equipment, perhaps some groundcrew, and also net them a profit? Yeah right. If they honestly believe that, well then I have this bridge in Brooklyn that's up for sale :rolleyes:.
I'm thinking "covert op" for some reason..... :cool:
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Nuke boy! Allegedly, dude is still 'hot' (in a radioactive sense, you idjits!).
Na. Hear about the Texas thing back in 2006? Steel contaminated with cesium-137 was recycled... Allegedly only 250 tons of steel were contaminated. Heard a rumor that cesium thingies from an MRI once got directly mixed into a load of steel being recycled.
Do tell about the Texas incident...
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I'm thinking "covert op" for some reason..... :cool:
I say that something was put onboard the ship, probably in Kalinigrad. The 8 guys went out either from Öland or Gotland in an RIB, armed and took over the ship, pretended to look for something, but actually acted as escorts. They made sure the ship got to a specific place where another ship waited, they got out whatever they were smuggling, got it over to the other ship. Perhaps they had been promised they would be taken along, or they were simply offered enough money to take the roles as scapegoats/decoys and spend some time behind bars as a part of the deal. Whatever it was that they smuggled is now long gone and probably in the hands of someone who shouldn't be trusted to even use a squirtgun responsibly.
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Do tell about the Texas incident...
There were several similar incidents.
There were at least a couple of Texas incidents from 1996 to 2006:
http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/9603/msg00245.html
http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/43586
The Goiana, Brazil incident irradiated many people, with at least 4 fatalities. It was caused by an abandoned Cesium-137 teletherapy source. More here:
http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=234
Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, 1983 was another case where medical equipment was improperly surplused. The Cesium-137 pellets were freed at a scrap yard to be smelted into steel. The radioactive construction steel found its way into the US via Texas and other bordering states, and triggered a radiation detector at Los Alamos, prompting the investigation. Since then, the U.S. has installed radiation detection equipment at all major border crossings.
The David Hahn backyard breeder reactor incident was a real eye-opener, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn
There's a whole list of documented civilian radiological incidents, with a wide range of severity. I've flown against a couple foreign ones when Uncle Sam was concerned enough to take a closer look.
http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=234
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Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, 1983 was another case where medical equipment was improperly surplused. The Cesium-137 pellets were freed at a scrap yard to be smelted into steel. The radioactive construction steel found its way into the US via Texas and other bordering states, and triggered a radiation detector at Los Alamos, prompting the investigation. Since then, the U.S. has installed radiation detection equipment at all major border crossings.
Ah, that was it! Heard it really freaked out a lot of folks. :)
Here is the best accounting of the Nuclear Boy Scout: http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
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Looks like you guys aren't the only ones speculating about what the ship was carrying:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/08/19/world/international-us-ship-russia.html
The official version of events was questioned by Yulia Latynina, a leading Russian opposition journalist and commentator.
"The Arctic Sea was carrying something, not timber and not from Finland, that necessitated some major work on the ship," she wrote in the Moscow Times newspaper on Wednesday.
During two weeks of repair works in the Russian port of Kaliningrad just before the voyage, the ship's bulkhead was dismantled so something very large could be loaded, she wrote.
"To put it plainly: The Arctic Sea was carrying some sort of anti-aircraft or nuclear contraption intended for a nice, peaceful country like Syria, and they were caught with it," she said.
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Nuke boy! Allegedly, dude is still 'hot' (in a radioactive sense, you idjits!).
Na. Hear about the Texas thing back in 2006? Steel contaminated with cesium-137 was recycled... Allegedly only 250 tons of steel were contaminated. Heard a rumor that cesium thingies from an MRI once got directly mixed into a load of steel being recycled.
Hahn is still in the news:
'Radioactive Boy Scout' Charged in Smoke Detector Theft (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292111,00.html)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fimages%2F303168%2F0_21_080407_David_Hahn.jpg&hash=c5df40bed5c09eebcc615cdaa5f8f715987e2559)
"No, its just a bad case of acne."
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That's one of the scariest looking dudes I've seen in a while.
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Something tells me he doesn't need a flashlight at night... =D
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Isn't that the guy from Stephen King's "The Stand"
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Something tells me he doesn't need a flashlight at night... =D
...or that he'll have many nights left.....
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That's one of the scariest looking dudes I've seen in a while.
What's so scary about a kid who had a more advanced nuclear program in his mother's shed than say, Iran probably has at the moment? ;)
Dude soaked up a lot of rads. Buddy of mine up in Michigan swears you can pick up where he's been with a Geiger counter for a couple hours after he walks through. I really wouldn't want to be the guy guarding him.
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Bit of an update here: The plot thickens. Michail Voitenko, who've been the source for quite a bit of the information regarding this debacle has left Russia, apparently at the suggestion by "some serious guys" who felt that he could use a 3-4 month vacation someplace else.
Also, a new theory that's making it's way around the net is that the ship was hi-jacked by Israeli intelligence in an effort to grab a cargo of missiles heading either for Syria or Iran...
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Here is a report from a group that goes good work and some really bad work.
http://homelandsecurityus.com/?p=2994 Part 1
There is a part 2 somewhere.
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According to intelligence reports following the alleged disappearance of the vessel - reports independently confirmed by this author through direct inquiries with U.S. and Israeli intelligence sources, the “repairs” were not repairs at all, but a very extensive project that involved completely dismantling and rebuilding the ship’s bulkhead to special military-like specifications.
How many bulkheads are there on an oceangoing ship? The answer is "many". It is bad reporting like this that raise my hackles and causes me to discount the rest of the story. "...the ship's bulkhead..." is not the kind of thing you'd hear reported by a supposed shipping security expert.
That particular "bulkhead" snippet was repeated in more than one story about this incident in the MSM.
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Evidently ships hauling military cargo need modifications to bulkheads within the ship. I assume it has to do with passage modifications and hatch designed to handle odd and big shapes. What caught my interest in the story was the modification of bulkhead(s) as it brought to memory another famous ship which had undergone similar modifications. The Lusitania.
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My concern was over the reporting of bulkhead in the singular, by a supposed expert. I saw this in more than one report. It kind of detracts from the credibility of the story, IMO.