Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on November 21, 2009, 10:24:12 PM
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60-39. Looks like at least one of the swing dems (Landrieu) got a lot of money for her state. And of course they had to, "do it for Kennedy".
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul
Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent David Espo, Ap Special Correspondent 34 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Invoking the memory of Edward M. Kennedy, Democrats united Saturday night to push historic health care legislation past a key Senate hurdle over the opposition of Republicans eager to inflict a punishing defeat on President Barack Obama. There was not a vote to spare.
The 60-39 vote cleared the way for a bruising, full-scale debate beginning after Thanksgiving on the legislation, which is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it, crack down on insurance company practices that deny or dilute benefits and curtail the growth of spending on medical care nationally.
The spectator galleries were full for the unusual Saturday night showdown, and applause broke out briefly when the vote was announced. In a measure of the significance of the moment, senators sat quietly in their seats, standing only when they were called upon to vote.
In the final minutes of a daylong session, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., accused Republicans of trying to stifle a historic debate the nation needed.
"Imagine if, instead of debating whether to abolish slavery, instead of debating whether giving women and minorities the right to vote, those who disagreed had muted discussion and killed any vote," he said.
The Republican leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, said the vote was anything but procedural — casting it as a referendum on the bill itself, which he said would raise taxes, cut Medicare and create a "massive and unsustainable debt."
For all the drama, the result of the Saturday night showdown had been sealed a few hours earlier, when two final Democratic holdouts, Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, announced they would join in clearing the way for a full debate.
"It is clear to me that doing nothing is not an option," said Landrieu, who won $100 million in the legislation to help her state pay the costs of health care for the poor.
Lincoln, who faces a tough re-election next year, said the evening vote will "mark the beginning of consideration of this bill by the U.S. Senate, not the end."
Both stressed they were not committing in advance to vote for the bill that ultimately emerges from next month's debate.
Of particular contentiousness to moderates is a provision for the government to sell insurance in competition with private companies, subject to state approval — a part of Reid's bill expected to come under significant pressure as the debate unfolds.
Even so, their announcements marked a major victory for Reid and the White House in a year-end drive to enact the most sweeping changes to the nation's health care system in a half-century or more.
At the White House, press secretary Robert Gibbs issued a statement saying the president was gratified by the vote, which he says "brings us one step closer to ending insurance company abuses, reining in spiraling health care costs, providing stability and security to those with health insurance, and extending quality health coverage to those who lack it."
The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide subsidies to those who couldn't afford it. Large companies could incur costs if they did not provide coverage to their workforce. The insurance industry would come under significant new regulation under the bill, which would first ease and then ban the practice of denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions.
Congressional budget analysts put the legislation's cost at $979 billion over a decade and said it would reduce deficits over the same period while extending coverage to 94 percent of the eligible population.
At its core, the legislation would create insurance exchanges beginning in 2014 where individuals, most of them lower income and uninsured, would shop for coverage. The bill sets aside hundreds of billions of dollars in tax credits to help those earning up to 400 percent of poverty, $88,200 for a family of four.
The House approved its version of the bill earlier this month on a near party line vote of 220-215, and Reid has said he wants the Senate to follow suit by year's end. Timing on any final compromise was unclear.
All 58 Senate Democrats and two independents voted to advance the bill. All 39 votes in opposition were cast by Republicans. GOP Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio was the only senator not to vote. Montana Sen. Max Baucus, the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee who has labored on health care for more than a year, flew in from his home state on a government plane for the vote and was returning afterward to be with his ailing mother.
While timing made Landrieu and Lincoln the final two Democrats to announce their intentions, Sen. Paul Kirk of Massachusetts had a clear claim as the 60th vote.
Appointed to office this fall after the death of Kennedy, who championed health care issues for decades, Kirk said he spoke for those "who for so many years revered and loved and elected and re-elected (him) ... that I think they're all — they all, as we do, have him in our minds and our hearts tonight. ..."
Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., echoed those sentiments later in the evening when he referred to Kennedy's "lifelong quest" for national health care and said "tonight and in the days to come we will pay him the highest compliment by fulfilling that" goal.
At a post-vote news conference, Reid said he had talked with Kennedy's widow, Vicki, about the vote. "We both said Ted would be happy," Reid said.
In hours of debate before the Saturday evening vote, a few Republicans piled copies of the 2,074-page bill on their desks while others criticized it as a government takeover of health care and worse.
"Move over, Bernie Madoff. Tip your hat to a trillion-dollar scam," said Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., likening the bill's supporters to the imprisoned investor who fleeced millions.
In her remarks, Landrieu said, "I've decided that there are enough significant reforms and safeguards in this bill to move forward, but much more work needs to be done." She also touted the $100 million included in the legislation to help her state cover its costs under Medicaid, the state-federal health care program for the poor.
Lincoln referred repeatedly to the political controversy surrounding the issue. She said $3.3 million has already been spent by outside groups advertising either for or against health care legislation in her state, and said, "these outside groups seem to think that this is all about my re-election. I simply think they don't know me very well."
To finance the expanded coverage, Reid proposed higher taxes as well as cuts totaling hundreds of billions of dollars in projected Medicare payments. Hardest hit would be the private insurance Medicare plans, although providers such as home health agencies would also receive significantly less in future years than now estimated.
The bill raises payroll taxes on incomes over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. Reid eased the impact of an earlier proposal to tax high-value insurance plans, which has emerged as one of the principal methods for restraining the growth in health costs.
The bill includes tax increases on insurance companies, medical device makers, patients electing to undergo cosmetic surgery and drugmakers.
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Any bets on when they actually pass this <deleted> legislation? How long will it take them? I give it a week, tops. It will pass as is, and then it's on to the reconciliation process with the House version.
All of those, "It could be next year before health care legislation clears the Senate" claims were a smoke screen.
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So was that the filibuster vote?
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Lenin would be so proud of his spawn!
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So was that the filibuster vote?
Yup, I believe so.
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Then we're hosed.
=|
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"Imagine if, instead of debating whether to abolish slavery, instead of debating whether giving women and minorities the right to vote, those who disagreed had muted discussion and killed any vote," he said.
A few years from now, we'll be quoting this when the time comes to repeal this.
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A few years from now, we'll be quoting this when the time comes to repeal this.
Yeah, good luck with that.
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"Imagine if, instead of debating whether to abolish slavery...those who disagreed had muted discussion and killed any vote," he said.
Is the Senate Majority leader really that ignorant of Congressional history?
Stunning.
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Gag_Rule.htm
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I give it a week, tops. It will pass as is, and then it's on to the reconciliation process with the House version.
All of those, "It could be next year before health care legislation clears the Senate" claims were a smoke screen.
Of course it's not going to take a year to pass. The current administration regime only has 3.5 years of smash-and-grab politics left.
If we are lucky.
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So was that the filibuster vote?
No, filibuster is a vote to CLOSE debate (cloture). This was the vote to open debate.
It could have been blocked by this vote as well, but filibuster is still on the table.
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No, filibuster is a vote to CLOSE debate (cloture). This was the vote to open debate.
It could have been blocked by this vote as well, but filibuster is still on the table.
My mistake then. Hopefully this then means we still have a fighting chance of getting the politicians to listen to the citizens. I think it's looking a bit grim though... =(
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Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, announced they would join in clearing the way for a full debate.
She said she will not vote for the current bill.
My opinion is this:
The democrats always have ways of keeping their membership in line (unlike the republicans, who'd rather have Ds posing as Rs than to risk having less Rs). I think they twisted the arm of the members in tough districts by getting them to vote for debate/cloture but allowing them to vote against the bill. (60 votes vs. 50)
That way they can say, "I voted against it." but Pelosi/Reid get what they want.
Edit: The reason I say this is because Blanche Lincoln says she will note vote for this bill in its current form. I foresee her voting against the bill but not allowing a filibuster by voting for cloture.
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She said she will not vote for the current bill.
Edit: The reason I say this is because Blanche Lincoln says she will note vote for this bill in its current form. I foresee her voting against the bill but not allowing a filibuster by voting for cloture.
Unfortunately I saw this morning that Obama has been talking up Snowe -- she may end up canceling out Lincoln. One of Snowe's quotes (regarding GOP buy-in) was, "I hope I'm not the only Republican voting for it." Sounds kinda like she's made up her mind already... =|
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the legislation, which is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it
By making criminals of those who couldn't afford insurance in the first place :mad:
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when all you have is a sickle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle), every problem is a stalk of wheat? [tinfoil] [popcorn] :angel:
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we need to make it very clear to our elected reps what the consequences are if they vote wrong
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we need to make it very clear to our elected reps what the consequences are if they vote wrong
to modify a comment I left elsewhere yesterday,..
None of them care, CS. They're gonna pass it, and they'll laugh all the way to the bank while they do, every last one of them, including the votes "against" it. They're all right in bed together, every last single one, except maybe Ron Paul, bless his crazy, addlepated head.
When the Dems get voted out in a landslide come 2010, the Republicants will whinge and wring their hands and say how sorry they are, but they can't overturn the passage, because it was in the bill that it would be permanent, and how could they be expected to read the whole thing....
Not a one of them is on our side. Not one of them cares what we think, and not a single one of them cares if they lose office in 2010. Their buddies will take care of them, from BOTH sides of the aisle...
Can you tell I've gotten a little bitter over the whole thing?
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With Snowe, the Democrats have 61 votes for cloture should a Republican try to filibuster. Even without Snowe, they have the votes for cloture. It's a done deal.
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Well I think it's a great start. Obama says that by spending trillions of dollars on government-run health care, we'll save money.
If that's what it takes to save money, why not make the program bigger? We could cover everyone in Mexico and save enough money to balance the budget. Heck, if we covered everyone in China, we'd probably save so much money that the government would give us all $100,000 a year and we wouldn't have to work!
As the esteemed economist Joe Biden said, "we have to spend money to keep from going bankrupt." I'm glad Sarah Palin didn't say that, or the media would make fun of her.
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The plan already covers everyone in Mexico, as long as they are willing to cross the border.
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The plan already covers everyone in Mexico, as long as they are willing to cross the border.
Holy cow! We're saving more than I thought. I'd suggest insuring Canada, but they're already saving so much money with their health care system that Canadians can afford to take vacations to the US and pay out of pocket for MRI's, surgery and other medical procedures while they're here.
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The plan already covers everyone in Mexico, as long as they are willing to cross the border.
But they don't have to cross the border. You have to understand, the border crossed them. :mad:
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None of them care, CS. They're gonna pass it, and they'll laugh all the way to the bank while they do, every last one of them, including the votes "against" it. They're all right in bed together, every last single one, except maybe Ron Paul, bless his crazy, addlepated head.
When the Dems get voted out in a landslide come 2010, the Republicants will whinge and wring their hands and say how sorry they are, but they can't overturn the passage, because it was in the bill that it would be permanent, and how could they be expected to read the whole thing....
Not a one of them is on our side. Not one of them cares what we think, and not a single one of them cares if they lose office in 2010. Their buddies will take care of them, from BOTH sides of the aisle...
I'm afraid it's hard to avoid being bitter and cynical at this juncture. Congress is pretty much daring us to tell them to take their game and get out of town.
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I'm just trying to figure out whether they simply don't care, are truly oblivious, or have become so arrogant as to actually believe they will be untouchable in the 2010 elections.
I don't know -- maybe I'm out of touch and will be the one shocked when they're all re-elected.
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I'm just trying to figure out whether they simply don't care, are truly oblivious, or have become so arrogant as to actually believe they will be untouchable in the 2010 elections.
Yes.
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But they don't have to cross the border. You have to understand, the border crossed them. :mad:
in soviet mexico, border crosses you? [tinfoil]
sorry man, i probably need to stop postin' on pain meds :angel:
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I just hope some Senate Republican's give a damn is broke and that he spikes the bill with an amendment that blows up the debate.
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No, I am not making this up.
http://keithhennessey.com/2009/11/21/penalty-tax-inequity/
Reid bill: 16M uninsured U.S. citizens pay a penalty tax. 8M uninsured illegal aliens do not.
Under Leader Reid’s amendment, in the year 2019 about 16 million U.S. citizens would be uninsured and be forced to pay a penalty tax of almost $800 per year. About eight million illegal aliens would be uninsured and would owe no penalty tax. Both groups would get their health care through a combination of out-of-pocket spending and use of uncompensated care in emergency rooms and free health clinics.
...
(much more at the link)
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The faster they swap out the "legacy" population of the United States the faster they will seize permanent control. It should come as no surprise whose side they are really on.
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Of course it's not going to take a year to pass. The current administration regime only has 3.5 years of smash-and-grab politics left.
If we are lucky.
You're being so negative...after all, there's an election coming up next year where we can all hope for a change. The "experts" don't foresee a complete changeover, but they were wrong about some pretty significant governors' races this month, too.
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Passage in the senate ain't a done deal.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29798.html
Far too many fault lines in the senate much less the house for anything to be certain.
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Passage in the senate ain't a done deal.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29798.html
Far too many fault lines in the senate much less the house for anything to be certain.
This has been said all along about the legislation. All the whining and knashing of teeth: "This is going to be so difficult to pass. Too many representatives disagree with all or part of the bill." And yet the House managed to get the original version through almost painlessly on a Saturday evening with almost every member present. The close vote was a consequence of the members looking for political cover come November 2010.
Now the Senate has voted to start debate, again with little fanfare (and a few bribes) on a Saturday night. Mark my words: once debate starts, it will be over in a week, and the same tools that voted to start debate will vote for the bill in its current incarnation. Then it's on to reconciliation.
To believe otherwise is to be whistling past the graveyard, IMO.
Edit: Smokescreen comment changed to clarify my intended meaning re: political cover.
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This has been said all along about the legislation. All the whining and knashing of teeth: "This is going to be so difficult to pass. Too many representatives disagree with all or part of the bill." And yet the House managed to get the original version through almost painlessly on a Saturday evening with almost every member present. The close vote was a smokescreen.
Now the Senate has voted to start debate, again with little fanfare (and a few bribes) on a Saturday night. Mark my words: once debate starts, it will be over in a week, and the same tools that voted to start debate will vote for the bill in its current incarnation. Then it's on to reconciliation.
To believe otherwise is to be whistling past the graveyard, IMO.
Yep. Look at all the noise about how people were going to stall debate by reading the bill, blah, blah, blah. Didn't happen. The fix is in, folks, they are gonna pass this, unless a miracle occurs(what, I don't know), Not a single one of our senators is going to stand up and fight this, beyond some mumbled words.