Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on January 09, 2010, 07:09:08 PM
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It seems (but you never know) unlikely that the water will drop to the point of a full shut down. The article was of interest to me though, because I didn't know their power grid had that one ginormous fail point. Major Achilles' heel if he finally pisses the wrong people off enough.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582682,00.html
Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
Saturday , January 09, 2010
AP
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CARACAS, Venezuela —
Venezuela is at risk of a devastating power collapse as drought pushes water levels precariously low in the country's biggest hydroelectric dam, posing a serious political threat for President Hugo Chavez.
Chavez on Friday said his government is determined to keep Guri Dam from falling to a critical level where the turbines start to fail in the next several months. He has also imposed rationing measures that include penalty fees for energy overuse, shorter workdays for many public employees and reduced hours for shopping malls.
The entire South American country of 28 million people depends to a large degree on the massive Guri Dam, which holds back the Caroni River in southeastern Bolivar state. It supplies 73 percent of the country's electricity by feeding the massive Guri hydroelectric plant — the world's third-largest in power output — along with two other smaller plants.
Chavez said that the dam's water level is now about 33 feet below where it was last year, and if it falls 82 feet more before the dry season ends, "we would be at a standstill."
Chavez said that would force the government to suspend the generation of about 5,000 megawatts of power — causing blackouts for large swaths of Venezuela.
"We can't allow the water to reach this level," Chavez said. He said officials are aiming to prevent it by diminishing power generation at Guri and decreasing the flow of water that moves through the turbines.
Government officials say their rationing plan should help the country reach May, when seasonal rains are predicted to return. But even Chavez concedes the situation is serious. His past efforts to solve the problem have included sending cloud-seeding planes to produce rain with the help of Cuba.
An internal report by the state company Electricidad del Caroni, which oversees the dam, was recently published in the Venezuelan press and predicted that if water levels keep falling at current rates, the dam could reach a critical level in about four months.
Experts say the amount of water reaching the turbines could eventually decrease to such an extent that they would no longer feed the power grid.
"We'd be in a situation where we'd have to halt the country, the entire economy," said Victor Poleo, an oil economics professor at Venezuela's Central University and a former official in Chavez's Energy Ministry. Without power from Guri, he said, the country's existing gas- and oil-fired power plants would be able to cover only about 20 percent of the demand — producing widespread and sustained outages.
Chavez, seeking to avoid increased blackouts and the public anger that would accompany them, is taking a range of actions to try to close the electricity gap. He said repairs on two large thermoelectric plants should yield about 700 megawatts in the near future, and the government is also installing about a dozen smaller 12-megawatt plants elsewhere that he said should be ready later this month.
For now, his government has determined its best hope of averting disaster is to reduce electricity usage through rationing. Measures include penalty fees for businesses and other big customers that don't meet 20-percent reduction targets. Billboards are required to switch to efficient lighting.
Many malls have been forced to reduce hours, with most of their stores operating from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m.
Long lines have formed outside some shopping centers in the mornings, with people waiting to reach offices inside.
"Usually this is easy at this hour. Look at this disaster," said Oswaldo Dominguez, 67, who was waiting to pay a bill.
Lawyer Jose Cisneros, 52, waiting to buy a new cell phone, added, "I've lost half the day." He blamed the government, saying a lack of planning has left the electrical system in shambles.
After widespread complaints, the government loosened its mall shutdown order, allowing some businesses such as medical offices and supermarkets to open at regular hours.
The government has also partially shut down state-run steel and aluminum plants.
Chavez said the government will offer incentives for families that use less electricity. He also announced Friday that many public employees will have shorter workdays — from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. — except those in offices that tend to the public.
The rationing has some concerned. Andres Perez, president of the industrial chamber in central Carabobo state, said he doubts Guri Dam will be permitted to fail, but said many factories are bracing for the possibility of extended power outages — which could contribute to shortages of some goods.
Some parts of the country have already been enduring regular blackouts for months, as demand has outstripped the electrical supply.
Poleo said Guri Dam's three hydroelectric plants are now producing about 14,000 megawatts instead of the normal capacity of 15,300 megawatts.
"If that dam reaches its critical point, filling it is really a two- to three-year job," he said.
Chavez has blamed the electricity predicament on the El Nino weather phenomenon in the Pacific Ocean, along with global warming. But critics blame the government, saying investments in infrastructure haven't kept up in spite of Venezuela's bountiful oil earnings.
Poleo said investments have been hobbled by a lack of planning, waste and corruption, and that based on his research only about 25 percent to 30 percent of the funds approved for infrastructure upgrades have reached their intended uses.
The government's electricity minister, Angel Rodriguez, was not available to respond to the accusations.
Rodriguez was quoted by the Venezuelan newspaper El Mundo earlier in the week as saying that the government has invested heavily in upgrades, and that many are long-term projects rather than immediate solutions. The government says it has spent about $16.5 billion since 2002 in the electrical sector to meet rising consumer demand.
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Another socialist triumph.
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All Chavez has to do is put a few garden hoses in the river to fill it up. =D
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He also devalued their currency 50% effective Monday. That should be fun.
He did it after claiming earlier that the worldwide recession would not hurt Venezuela.
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Is the CIA capable of clandestinely putting a couple of handfulls of sand in the Guri dam turbine's bearings? >:D
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Is the CIA capable of clandestinely putting a couple of handfulls of sand in the Guri dam turbine's bearings?
That's conceivable, but can you imagine the current occupant of the White House authorizing hostile action against a fellow Marxist?
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Is the CIA capable of clandestinely putting a couple of handfulls of sand in the Guri dam turbine's bearings? >:D
Perhaps something like this (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=7040) would be appropriate?
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If only Venezuela had capitalism, entrepreneurs would supply more rain, and the dam would be working just fine.
How exactly does this situation call for sabotaging Venezuela? It's their country to manage as they please. I see no reason to get upset because they want some economic system other than American capitalism.
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Who's getting upset? I simply pointed out an overt strategic weakness in their infrastructure. I'm sure if it had been America, you would be equally outraged.
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How exactly does this situation call for sabotaging Venezuela? It's their country to manage as they please. I see no reason to get upset because they want some economic system other than American capitalism.
SHootinstudent:
Do you believe America should never, ever intervene in the internal politics of a sovereign state?
That such a thing would be always, irreparably wrong?
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Who's getting upset? I simply pointed out an overt strategic weakness in their infrastructure. I'm sure if it had been America, you would be equally outraged.
I was referring to that comment about putting sand in the machine, not your pointing out that Venezuela's infrastructure isn't up to snuff. And I agree with you that this could be a major stumbling block for Chavez.
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SHootinstudent:
Do you believe America should never, ever intervene in the internal politics of a sovereign state?
That such a thing would be always, irreparably wrong?
No, it obviously isn't always wrong. However, intervening in the politics of another state by sabotage merely because that state wants to run itself on a different economic model? That does more damage to the concept of property than socialism.
It's not our country, its oil isn't our property, and its people are entitled to choose for themselves what they'll do with their own homeland.
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If only Venezuela had capitalism, entrepreneurs would supply more rain, and the dam would be working just fine.
How exactly does this situation call for sabotaging Venezuela? It's their country to manage as they please. I see no reason to get upset because they want some economic system other than American capitalism.
It has everything to do with destablizing a regime that is outwardly and overtly critical, and has sought outwardly and overtly destabilize the United States.
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It has everything to do with destablizing a regime that is outwardly and overtly critical, and has sought outwardly and overtly destabilize the United States.
The criticism I don't mind. That's another thing I think people are free to do: if Chavez wants to do the dog and pony show every week on television calling Bush/Obama/whoeverelse names, that doesn't bother me. Maybe if he'd spent all those one hour segments considering options for power grids instead of ragging on GW Chavez wouldn't be in this position.
I'm not really aware of a realistic attempt to "destabilize the United States" by Venezuela, but if there is one, I'd rather have it persist as a source of cheap entertainment than kill it. I can't think of anything close to a real world scenario where Venezuela (the place that is a few meters of water away from being completely in the dark) can threaten the stability of the U.S.
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No, it obviously isn't always wrong. However, intervening in the politics of another state by sabotage merely because that state wants to run itself on a different economic model? That does more damage to the concept of property than socialism.
So you believe that a country can switch itself to, say, land socialism, nationalize all the land and move to a rationing system (like, say, Israel in the 1950's), and there's no human rights being violated? At all?
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I'm not really aware of a realistic attempt to "destabilize the United States" by Venezuela, but if there is one, I'd rather have it persist as a source of cheap entertainment than kill it. I can't think of anything close to a real world scenario where Venezuela (the place that is a few meters of water away from being completely in the dark) can threaten the stability of the U.S.
Chavez is indeed, in my opinion, mostly a "big fish in a little pond" blowhard, at least regarding what he can do outside his region. It is highly likely the US doesn't really have to do anything to destabilize his Regime other than to sit back and let him do all the work himself (and if we're not destabilizing, we also shouldn't be "reaching out to him"). That doesn't mean the Venezuelans aren't suffering under his policies.
It also doesn't mean that, unstable as HE is, separate from his country, that he might not do something incredibly stupid and terrorist-like to the US or someone else. Someone who might decide to retaliate.
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Us overtly acting in any way that can be even tentatively documented or reasonably alleged would be the biggest favor we could do for Chavez.
Far better to simply watch him fail with absolutely clean hands, so no one gives his attempts to blame us any credibility.
Enjoy the schadenfreude.
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1. I agree with Carebear.
2. Marxism is by definition a philosophy bent on global domination, and opposing it is always a good thing.
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If only Venezuela had capitalism, entrepreneurs would supply more rain, and the dam would be working just fine.
No, but they might have more sources of power than the one dam. And they might have the brain capital to run them more effectively.
Jis sayin'.
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Paging VFA-195... [popcorn]
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So you believe that a country can switch itself to, say, land socialism, nationalize all the land and move to a rationing system (like, say, Israel in the 1950's), and there's no human rights being violated? At all?
This.
So many folks seem to think that taking away every material item someone has or will ever have is not a serious violation of that person's liberty and personal sovereignty.
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So many folks seem to think that taking away every material item someone has or will ever have is not a serious violation of that person's liberty and personal sovereignty.
Maybe they figure they'll be among the takers . . .
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Then they're dumb. There are a lot more of them eager take from you than there are of you trying to take from them.
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Yet another article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60B56Y20100112?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true
Venezuela plans blackouts in Caracas, oil town
Marianns Parraga
CARACAS
Mon, Jan 4 2010
CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela will switch off lights for hours at a time in Caracas and other cities such as oil town Maracaibo in planned blackouts to tackle power shortages that threaten President Hugo Chavez's support.
World
Officials announced the nationwide electricity rationing lasting at least until May on Tuesday and said even schools and small health clinics would be hit in South America's top oil exporter.
Venezuela mostly depends on hydroelectricity for its power and has been hard hit by a drought Chavez blames on the El Nino weather phenomenon.
"The rationing is at a national level and is for four hours every 48 hours," said Javier Alvarado, president of the Caracas Electricity corporation, which was nationalized in 2007 and previously belonged to U.S. company AES.
One of the cities to be hit by the new electricity rationing is Maracaibo, the country's second largest town and the capital of oil heartland Zulia.
Lights went out there on Tuesday from 3 p.m. (2:30 p.m. EST). The blackouts are planned by city district.
However, they should not affect vital oil fields and refineries, which mostly have their own generators. Major city services, like hospitals and trains, will also not be affected.
Venezuelans are already suffering widespread water rationing and increased power cuts and could punish the socialist president for the problems in September elections for lawmakers.
Chavez must navigate a number of issues, including price rises after a devaluation and high crime, if he is to maintain his approval ratings above 50 percent this year.
Venezuela enlisted Cuban help to "bomb" clouds with chemicals last month in an attempt to artificially trigger rainfall over the South American nation's largest reservoir and main power source, the vast Guri Dam.
Alvarado said water levels at the Dam dropped by 9 meters (30 feet) to 261 meters above sea level last year. Energy production is diminished as the water level falls. The dams turbines are located at 240 meters above sea level.
Critics blame the government for not investing enough in the national grid since Chavez took office 11 years ago.
The president say previous government made critical errors by building most of the nations energy infrastructure on one river that is affected by rainfall.
(Reporting by Frank Jack Daniel; Editing by Marguerita Choy)
I realize it is older than the original story, but this caught my eye:
Critics blame the government for not investing enough in the national grid since Chavez took office 11 years ago.
The president say previous government made critical errors by building most of the nations energy infrastructure on one river that is affected by rainfall.
Aside form the poor verb-subject agreement, Chavez has been in office for ELEVEN YEARS and is still blaming the previous administration.
No wonder the Democrats still try to get traction out of blame Bush.
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But they have oil!
I'm sure Chavez can get a couple dozen Honda generators and the lights will be back on in no time.
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Does Honda have any assets in Venezuela to
steal nationalize for the good of the workers?
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In eleven years, they could have dug another dam.
It took the British 4 years to dam the Nile (1898-1902).
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In eleven years, they could have dug another dam.
It took the British 4 years to dam the Nile (1898-1902).
Corrupt despots ALWAYS have a ready excuse for the miserable failures of their own policies - take a look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe; in power since 1980 and according to him Zimbabwe's downward spiral is the fault of Britain and the USA.
Why should Chavez be any different?
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The criticism I don't mind. That's another thing I think people are free to do: if Chavez wants to do the dog and pony show every week on television calling Bush/Obama/whoeverelse names, that doesn't bother me. Maybe if he'd spent all those one hour segments considering options for power grids instead of ragging on GW Chavez wouldn't be in this position.
I'm not really aware of a realistic attempt to "destabilize the United States" by Venezuela, but if there is one, I'd rather have it persist as a source of cheap entertainment than kill it. I can't think of anything close to a real world scenario where Venezuela (the place that is a few meters of water away from being completely in the dark) can threaten the stability of the U.S.
http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/8723.html
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Why do I have the feeling that "sacked his minister" actually involved a sack... and possibly some heavy chain and a body of water?
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582999,00.html?test=latestnews
Chavez Sacks Minister, Stops Rolling Blackouts
Thursday , January 14, 2010
AP
ADVERTISEMENT
CARACAS, Venezuela —
President Hugo Chavez indefinitely suspended rolling blackouts in Venezuela's capital just a day after they began, and sacked his electricity minister saying he was responsible for mistakes in the way the rationing plan was applied.
Chavez's announcement late Wednesday was a significant shift in his attempts to prevent a widespread power collapse in the coming months by implementing rolling blackouts of up to four hours a day throughout the country.
"I've ordered the electrical outages to be suspended, only in Caracas," Chavez said on state television. "Because this government has to be capable of recognizing mistakes made and fixing them in time."
Chavez said since the outages began in Caracas at midnight Tuesday, authorities had cut power to the wrong sectors of the city in some cases. "I think in one area they repeated the outage a few hours later," he said.
He added that some stoplights were left without power.
"Enough. I said if that's what is going on, there was an error there," Chavez said.
Chavez said he asked Electricity Minister Angel Rodriguez to resign and that "he has taken it like a soldier."
Chavez said he ordered the chief of the city's state electric utility not to schedule any more blackouts until the process is reviewed. It was unclear how soon the government could attempt to restart the measures in Caracas.
The government says rationing is necessary to prevent a widespread power collapse if the water levels behind Guri Dam — which supplies most of Venezuela's electricity — fall to critical lows in the coming months due to a severe drought. Officials also acknowledge that some gas- and oil-fueled thermoelectric plants are producing below capacity while undergoing repairs.
The rolling blackouts have drawn angry complaints from some Venezuelans, but Chavez didn't refer to the popularity of the measures in his phone call to a late-night talk show. Earlier in the day, he had urged Venezuelans to accept the cutbacks and likened them to a national energy diet.
Some Caracas residents grumbled that the outages were causing problems.
"This is the worst," said Johana Machado, a 30-year-old cashier at a bakery-delicatessen. With no electricity to power the coffee maker or the scale used to weigh cold cuts, Machado said sales were suffering.
Chavez announced he was calling off the rolling blackouts shortly before some parts of Caracas were set to begin four-hour outages at midnight.
"People shouldn't worry. There is not going to be any power outage," Chavez said. He said that while the government reviews its approach, "we're going to limit the instructions that we've given: turn off the lights, each person saving as much as he or she can."
Other rationing measures are to remain in place, including rolling blackouts in other parts of the country.
The government also has reduced the hours of electricity supply for shopping centers and required businesses and large residential complexes to cut energy use by 20 percent or face fines. Chavez reduced the workday of many public employees, setting new hours from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m.
Critics blame Chavez's government for the shortage, saying it has failed to complete enough power upgrades to keep up with increasing demand.
Chavez denied that, saying the drought is the primary culprit and that his government is acting to extend Guri Dam's capacity to feed the electrical grid. Rains are expected to return at the end of the traditional dry season in May.
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"This is the worst," said Johana Machado, a 30-year-old cashier at a bakery-delicatessen. With no electricity to power the coffee maker or the scale used to weigh cold cuts, Machado said sales were suffering.
Srsly?
This is the best example the reporter could find?
Sigh.
I can't get outraged over the pinko-commie regime's total failure to foster a stable societal infrastructure with quotes like that. I need surgery centers without electricity. Grocers' with whole freezers spoiling and leaving folks hungry.
3rd world countries ALWAYS have electricity drama. Tempest in a teapot here, judging by that quote.
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3rd world countries ALWAYS have electricity drama. Tempest in a teapot here, judging by that quote.
This is true. In the half dozen trips I've taken to Central American / Caribbean countries, there was not one single day on any of the trips where the power didn't go out where I was staying AT LEAST once for some extended period, and that included a couple of trips to fancy shmantzy resorts that were supposed to have backup power. It especially seems to occur any time it rains or the wind blows over 10kts.
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Paging VFA-195... [popcorn]
Thanks for the googleificator activation! Cool stuff.
I loved the 1955 movie of the same name! Gotta put it on my Netflix queue.
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Note he ended teh blackouts in his center of power and amongst his most proximate supporters. When the masses elsewhere get upset they can be labeled counter-revolutionary and his bought and paid for urban mob will take care of it.
Gotta set the peasants against themselves.
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Better to have 'em mad at each other than have 'em mad at you.