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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MaterDei on March 18, 2005, 07:00:32 AM

Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: MaterDei on March 18, 2005, 07:00:32 AM
For several reasons:
1.  I found them interesting.  This disturbs me greatly
2.  The comments made by so many of the reps, from both sides of the isle, about how much money baseball players made and implying that in some way that it was wrong that they made so much.  Why does this matter at all to this issue?
3.  The whole issue is being totally blown out of proportion.  If they want to take steroids, why should anyone care as long as they aren't hurting others?  The only problem I have with it is that they will be wiping out the records of others who played before steroids were available.

Any other baseball fans have an opinion on this?
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Cool Hand Luke 22:36 on March 18, 2005, 07:21:10 AM
Disturbing in that politicians like Henry Waxman et al. can actually compel supposedly free Americans to appear before their Congressional committees and listen to their grandstanding and general BS.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Control Group on March 18, 2005, 07:31:43 AM
As to your first point, I can't say I was interested or not - I was too busy slinging lead to pay any attention.

For the other two, though...I'm all for the free market value of players being in control. A baseball player is worth whatever someone will pay him, so if you're A-Rod and can command a $225,000,000.00 contract, then more power to you. HOWEVER: I don't think it's really a secret that baseball is on a long slide downhill, and picking up speed all the time. This is in large part to the explosion in players' salaries, which has led to a league that has only slightly more real competition than the WWE (consider: it's a major sports news story if the Yankees don't make the Series...). As a Brewers fan, I'm particularly sensitive to this issue: given the way the league is, there is essentially a zero percent chance of my team being in the Series anytime this decade. (Of course, as a Brewers fan, I can also attest that this would be the case even were the league better-run, but that's a different issue). Since the Majors enjoy exemption from antitrust law, they are also beholden to Congress to produce product of an acceptable quality. Insofar as that's the case, I can certainly see the size of player's salaries - and the unlikelihood of the league managing to voluntarily reign in its own behavior regarding guaranteed contracts and total payout size - being something Congress is concerned with. Of course, if it's just pandering to the audience, complaining about players' salaries because "no one deserves that much money," then it's stupid. Like I said, I didn't see it, so I don't know which it was.

The steroid issue is similar. MLB is responsible to Congress to produce a good product, and part of that involves respect for tradition (baseball is nothing if not traditional). Steroids put that tradition at risk, since their widespread use devalues modern athletic accomplishments relative to historical ones. More importantly, the fans are, by and large, offended by the notion of athletes "cheating" through steroid use. Again, since baseball not only doesn't have any competition, but is legally allowed to prevent there being any competition, Congress has the right (and, even, responsibility) to ensure that the customers, the fans, get what they want.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Control Group on March 18, 2005, 07:33:48 AM
Quote from: Cool Hand Luke 22:36
Disturbing in that politicians like Henry Waxman et al. can actually compel supposedly free Americans to appear before their Congressional committees and listen to their grandstanding and general BS.
Not at all. MLB enjoys a special status in the law, and as such is specifically subject to Congressional oversight and control. I would be disturbed if the NFL went through the same trials, since it does not enjoy an antitrust exemption, but the major leagues, the people who run them and their employees do enjoy that exemption, and are specifically accountable to Congress.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Moondoggie on March 18, 2005, 07:39:53 AM
The problem with steroid use is that it creates a monetary incentive in-and-of-itself....kids chasing the dream of playing in the majors are gonna have to choose to use steroids if they're gonna be competitive at the uppermost level of the game.  The celebrity status and seemingly mega-wealth of the top players is a powerful inducement.  It's almost the same as selling your soul to the devil, and many in sports can't resist.

Prolonged steroid use is physically harmful, and it's not the same thing as wearing out your joints after several seasons.

I have no interest in watching chemically enhanced players.  I just don't think it's honorable.  Especially when many hold them up to be role models.

We treat race horses better.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: EghtySx on March 18, 2005, 08:37:28 AM
Quote
As a Brewers fan, I'm particularly sensitive to this issue: given the way the league is, there is essentially a zero percent chance of my team being in the Series anytime this decade.
What you are talking about needing is revenue sharing and a salary cap.  While this may halp in a lot of cases it won't affect the Brewers as long as it is run by crooks like the Selig family.  Since the soft cap was introduced with a luxury tax, the Seligs have just pocketed the money instead of spending it to put a better product on the field.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Control Group on March 18, 2005, 08:59:08 AM
Quote from: EghtySx
What you are talking about needing is revenue sharing and a salary cap.  While this may halp in a lot of cases it won't affect the Brewers as long as it is run by crooks like the Selig family.  Since the soft cap was introduced with a luxury tax, the Seligs have just pocketed the money instead of spending it to put a better product on the field.
Well, yes - hence my comment about our situation being the same regardless of the league. On the other hand, given our new ownership, I'm daring to hope that there might be a light at the end of the tunnel.

In any event, I think the salary cap is a much more important goal than revenue sharing. More important than both, though, would be eliminating guaranteed contracts. In the area of salary management, baseball really needs to look the NFL for guidance: they've managed to put together a league which is competitive and exciting every year. Accomplishing that level of parity across teams is what every professional sports league should aspire to, IMO.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: jamz on March 18, 2005, 10:09:44 AM
I would like to get that portion of my taxes back that were spent on that.

How many issues do we have going on in this country that need serious attention, and they are wasting time on that crap?  Gimme a break.  I WISH we'd get to the point in this country where we can afford to haggle over steroid use in baseball.


-Love, James
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Sean Smith on March 18, 2005, 10:13:49 AM
Was it just me, or did McGuire actually sound a bit like he was stoned? "I'm here to make a positive influence on this"?!?  No, moron, you were there because you are obviously a juiced-up wanker.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: wasrjoe on March 18, 2005, 11:02:45 AM
He's probably just stupid, Sean. Plain old, grade-A stupid.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: TarpleyG on March 18, 2005, 11:46:12 AM
The only part that was disturbing was that grade-A Hollywood acting job Magwire (sp?) put on.  Crying and all that business aboujt how bad 'roids are and 'for the children' crap...

Greg
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 18, 2005, 02:37:24 PM
You're right.

They were disturbing.

Disturbing that Mark McGwire couldn't answer a sentence without whinnying and pawing a hoof at the ground.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Lee on March 18, 2005, 05:38:50 PM
Professional sports (and even many college sports) are disturbing in general to me.  I always enjoyed playing sports...but I have a hard time getting motivated by the melodrama these days. I'd rather watch a little league game.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Guest on March 19, 2005, 02:31:39 AM
Quote
2.  The comments made by so many of the reps, from both sides of the isle, about how much money baseball players made and implying that in some way that it was wrong that they made so much.  Why does this matter at all to this issue?
This is particularly amusing to me as i believe that the only people that have a lower work/salary ratio than baseball players are politicians. At least baseball players have some natural talent and occasionally break a sweat.
Title: The baseball hearings yesterday were disturbing
Post by: Pilgrim on March 19, 2005, 04:34:41 PM
Quote:  Disturbing in that politicians like Henry Waxman et al. can actually compel supposedly free Americans to appear before their Congressional committees and listen to their grandstanding and general BS.

The solution is simple.  When the grandstanding starts, the witness gets up and leaves.  When asked where he is going, he answers, "I was subpoenaed here to answer questions, not listen to your BS.  I can watch your BS on CSPAN."

Pilgrim