Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 280plus on February 10, 2010, 10:33:16 PM
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http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-02/new-armored-wall-system-could-replace-sandbags-marines-afghanistan
Attention recruits. Those of you landing in Afghanistan in coming months may not have to engage in the sandbag stacking and trench digging usually associated with lowly grunt-dom. An $800,000 investment in an armored wall system known as McCurdy’s Armor could have Marines rapidly erecting 6.5-foot-tall mortar-, RPG- and bullet proof fortresses in less than an hour, saving the days it can take to fortify an area by conventional means and making forward-operating units more nimble.
Named for Ryan S. McCurdy—a Marine killed in Iraq in 2006 while hauling a wounded comrade to safety—the system is designed to offer troops increased protection and mobility when setting up outposts in hostile areas. The walls can be ferried into place in panels that are easily stackable in a truck or trailer. Once in position, four Marines can assemble a single panel in less than ten minutes without any special tools or additional equipment. The panels then snap together like bomb-proofed Legos secured with steel pins to form a blast- and bullet-proof shelter.
Technology, Clay Dillow, armor, defense, marines, military, modern materialsThe armor can be set up in a variety of arrangements (U-shaped, J-shaped, etc.), and in instances where troops are worried about armor piercing rounds a second layer of armor can supplement the structures. But the walls aren’t just a protective cocoon for far-flung outposts; ballistic windows offer protection while giving Marines a line of sight and the ability to fire downrange, meaning McCurdy’s Armor can be deployed as both a defensive stronghold as well as a tactical firing position.
When it’s time to pull up camp, Marines can quickly break down their ersatz stockade, stack it back in their vehicles and move on to fortify the next position without leaving a single thing behind. Just try pulling that off with sandbags.
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The walls can be ferried into place in panels that are easily stackable in a truck or trailer. Once in position, four Marines can assemble a single panel in less than ten minutes without any special tools or additional equipment.
How many marines does it take to...assemble a single panel? =D
That has to be a typo. I fail to see how panels that are stacked in the back of a truck require 4 men to "assemble" one of them after they are removed from a truck bed.
Especially if "assembly" of a single panel requires no tools.
Anyways... won't replace sandbags. May augment them. But, requires roads be in place or a helicopter LZ be established for fortified positions. Sometimes you want a fortified position in places where no roads go, or no LZ's are possible.
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Forget compound walls, If I were given giant Lego bricks to play with I'd make a fortified pirate's cove!
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Forget compound walls, If I were given giant Lego bricks to play with I'd make a fortified pirate's cove!
Damn straight!
Sandbags also have a property that is of use: mass. PITA to place, but mass helps suck up blast and inertia helps keep them in place.
I can see the utility of these thingys, though.
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How are they RPG proof? From the picture, they don't look all that thick.
The other beneficial property of sand is it refills the hole made by a bullet. Would sustained machine gun fire against a small section of this stuff be able to breech it?
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Uhhh... what happened to just using HESCO barriers? I've seen plenty of them in use.
This whole armored wall concept is a solution in search of a problem, and a waste of money.
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Not that anyone needs more to carry, but I've wondered if the time of the shield is again upon us. A Lvl 4 plate with sockets to connect it to other plates would make an interesting expedient cover in places where there was none, like the streets of Mogadishu, or at an exposed casualty collection point. Can't make it exactly like plates worn in the carrier, then people would be pulling their personal plates to fortify a position. This thing in the OP is just a logistics headache.
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Sandbags: where we're going we don't need any roads!
;)
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is it just me, or does this look kinda of familiar? (http://www.gorillarack.com/raptor/) [tinfoil] and it looks like they could have filled it with sand to strengthen it some more. =)
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Interesting concept.....that is, if our armed forces ever encounter a shortage of sand in the Middle East.... :lol:
When it’s time to pull up camp, Marines can quickly break down their ersatz stockade, stack it back in their vehicles and move on to fortify the next position without leaving a single thing behind. Just try pulling that off with sandbags.
Step 1. Open bag.
Step 2. Empty sand from bag.
Step 3. ????
Step 4. PROFIT!
Now, where's my defense contract?...... =D
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This modular, interlocking gizmo that needs no Privates to shovel loose fill material will never take hold with the military, as there would be no way to assign Privates to shovel loose fill material into, and later out of, something.
I'm surprized that with the number of current/former NCOs we have nobody else has looked at that aspect. :facepalm:
First we take away the half-barrels that need to be hauled out and stirred as they are burned clean, and now we buy some toy that not only takes away the means to develop the physical stamina and body strength of our troops, but eliminates one of the better ways of keeping them occupied so they cannot get into trouble because of too much unsupervised free time.
Hell, now the NCOs are going to actually have to exert themselves as the only thing left is to do PT runs. At least the new military has those reflective safety belts so our boys & girls don't get run over in the dark by some camel.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Why does that system look suspiciously like the rack storage modules at the nearby Lowe's and Home Depot? Just with an outer skin. Doesn't look especially RPG-proof to me. Fortunately for me, I'm too old, but if I were over "there" I think I d'ruther have sandbags. They worked fine in Vietnam.
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If you go to the manufacturer's site, you quickly see that sand is used in "configuration #4" for the highest level of protection. I know.... there are hundreds of upset PVTs saying, "I knew it was too good to be true." :laugh:
http://www.ddmat.com/mccurdy_product.html
Be the concept does look interesting. Once the Marines figure out it's not a great system and stop using it, maybe it'll hit the surplus market at a decent price. It'd be nice to get rid of the sandbag emplacements in my front yard and replace them with something more visually appealing. ;)
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I like it.
It does take time to fill enough sandbags to create an emplacement.
I see this being handy for spot roadblocks.
Protection at casualty collection stations.
Protection for Forward CPs.
How about this: You're a mechnic and there's a broken down vehicle in the field. You've got a few of the panels with you, and they can be placed to give you cover while you're repairing the broken down vehicle.
Ideas for how to use it seem endless. Lots of times I'd imagine that grunts don't have time to fill sandbags, but with some of these in the vehicles, they could quickly set up positions.
I wonder if it has to be erected to 6.5', too?
Were I in charge of procuring something like it, I'd stick some grunts in a room with it and first see if they can put it together without outside insturction. Then, I'd see if they can break it. Then, I'd have them shoot it with everything and anything. If it passed those tests, I'd have to buy it...
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Uhhh... what happened to just using HESCO barriers? I've seen plenty of them in use.
This whole armored wall concept is a solution in search of a problem, and a waste of money.
Those are large and require either alot of manpower, or engineers. I think the idea is that these panels could be thrown into a truck and taken pretty much anywhere. Lots of various ideas on how to use it. For a permanant or long term FOB, you put up as much thick material as you can.
Our military is very mobile today. Patrols roll out from FOBs and then stay for days and weeks in towns and cities outside the FOB. Anything that allows grunts more time behind their rifle and less time shoveling dirt into sandbags is a force multiplier.
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I got put in a room with another guy disassembling and reassembling a gas turbine step by step so the monitor dude could see how long it took a couple noobies to do the job(s). I didn't get to blow it up or shoot it though. =(
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I got put in a room with another guy disassembling and reassembling a gas turbine step by step so the monitor dude could see how long it took a couple noobies to do the job(s). I didn't get to blow it up or shoot it though. =(
I had orders to head to 29 palms to test an earlier version of this (http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/soflam-designator/). Gear packed, it was a friday, and we were leaving on Monday. Orders called off at the last second, someone at another command pulled the right strings to get it tested by thier people. ;/
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Do people still get training in trench digging/field fortifications in the US Armed Forces?
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Do people still get training in trench digging/field fortifications in the US Armed Forces?
I'd bet dollars to donuts the Marines still do. Even as a non grunt I knew how to set up a variety of positions. Even got tested on it as an NCO once.
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Do people still get training in trench digging/field fortifications in the US Armed Forces?
We did in 1996 when I went through Basic & AIT.
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I had orders to sub school and the 300' escape tower in Groton and at the last second the detailer said, "Wait a minute, you have really bad eyes. You can't be on a sub." I was much happier about that little change in orders than you must have been about yours. But then again, that is how I ended up on a destroyer in the middle of the Pacific. =|
:lol:
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Step 1. Open bag.
Step 2. Empty sand from bag.
Step 3. ?
Step 4. PROFIT!
Sandbag gnomes?
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Sandbag gnomes?
Yep.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ddmat.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct_stowage.jpg&hash=ca84629c02888c3ed47e4f750d5110116bf0db12)
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Cool! A portable duck/deer blind :lol:
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Cool! A portable duck/deer blind
and it only costs $800,000....
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So from the picture above, does this structure have a roof, or are we still going to be worried about grenades being lofted in?
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and it only costs $800,000....
Worth every penny if the ducks are armed.
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Pure win. That right there can be yanked behind a humvee and erected in an alley or courtyard and used for any myriad of purposes. How lond did they say it takes to put that up again?
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and it only costs $800,000....
I'll wait until it comes out in the CTD catalog :lol:
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Pure win. That right there can be yanked behind a humvee and erected in an alley or courtyard and used for any myriad of purposes. How lond did they say it takes to put that up again?
A full hour's work for four soldiers.
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not in the video it didn't take an hour but no one was shooting/inspiring em in the vid
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A full hour's work for four soldiers.
Take alot longer than that to fill sandbacks to those dimensions.
I'm diggin on it (no pun intended).
Sandbags and hardened emplacements will still have a place in the combat zone I'd imagine, for a very long time, but a portable system like that which only takes an hour to erect? Pure win in my book.
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and it only costs $800,000....
nah, we can build it on a guerrilla rack chassis for 800 tops, and thats with the battery powered cooler [popcorn]
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http://www.ddmat.com/mccurdy_product.html
the time lapse in this link shows under 10 mins to put it up under controlled conditions with 3 guys.
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Great if you are on a flat surface...
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How much do sandbags cost ? =|
Who cares, we're borrowing all that money from China anyway :P
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Be the concept does look interesting. Once the Marines figure out it's not a great system and stop using it, maybe it'll hit the surplus market at a decent price. It'd be nice to get rid of the sandbag emplacements in my front yard and replace them with something more visually appealing. ;)
And that relates to this system ... how? Are you accusing this erector set mess of being "visually appealing"?
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And that relates to this system ... how? Are you accusing this erector set mess of being "visually appealing"?
Well, I'd be willing to bet most HOAs would go for this...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ddmat.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct_stowage.jpg&hash=ca84629c02888c3ed47e4f750d5110116bf0db12)
rather than this...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3066%2F3061099780_e50435907c.jpg&hash=fce37b09896dfdd0746d6fa2028d1aa6a18029cd)
Just saying... :angel:
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Great if you are on a flat surface...
Not a perfect system but I can see endless possibilities for its use.
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From the looks of it, does it break down into 2X2 panels? It almost looks like it. If it did, it would make it a lot more flexible. I also didn't firing ports.
I am almost surprised they did rig it up to hang on the sides of a humvee or other vehicle for extra armor.
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if it goes in theatre how long before somebody figures a way to rig it like that? or other ways to improve it
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if it goes in theatre how long before somebody figures a way to rig it like that? or other ways to improve it
About 2 minutes if my service is any indication.