Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Northwoods on March 29, 2010, 11:20:57 PM
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Been Jonesing after a CZ 453 for a while now. Over at RFC I got some suggestions to consider the 452 instead as it's less expensive, and just as good, they thought, for my purposes - having a .22lr training rifle to simulate my CZ 550's.
Best I've found for a .22lr 453 so far have all been factory new for about $575 OTD. Haven't been able to find any used. Anyway, with my new job I'm staying away from the family during the week, and I mentioned this to the guy I'm renting a room from. He says a buddy of his is selling a CZ rimfire, he thought it was a heavy barrrled 452.
Now that I'm working again, and given that when my wife filed our taxes we're getting a few thousand more in a refund that we'd expected I've got the green light to get a rimfire and associated optics and other necessities.
Well, I got to the place I'm staying during the week tonight and there was 452 Varmint was sitting on the table.
Overall, condition is very good. Bore is dirty, but rifling looks sharp. Crown doesn't appear to have any mars. Only metal issues are a couple of the screws (there are 4 total on the bottom of the stock - 3 in the action, plus one more about halfway between the action and the front sling stud - is that normal for a Varmint??) have been somewhat marred by screwdrivers but that's not a huge deal as I figured on replacing them with the torx head set that's recommended at RFC anyway (J&P I think).
A few minor handling marks. Nothing I probably wouldn't put there myself after a few trips to the range. Wood grain/figuring is OK. Nothing too special, about average for a CZ.
I dry fired the trigger once. Owner either got lucky or did some adjustments as there was virtually no creep. I don't have a trigger scale so I can't tell the exact pull weight but it felt like ~3#.
Biggest problem (which might not be too much of a problem) is that the barrel channel in the stock is not centered on the barrel. I can't tell if the stock has warped a bit or if it was that way from the factory, but the barrel does touch the stock as a result.
Comes with one steel magazine (looks like a 5 rounder), original box, trigger lock.
Overall impression is good. One thing I didn't realize is that there's no cheek pad on the stock. My 550's have that and I'd just assumed that the 452/453 did too. Do any of the CZ rimfires have the cheek pad? Other than maybe a 452 Lux it doesn't seem like it.
Asking price is $350. Too much? A good deal?
Should I hold out for the 453?
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one more thing to think about is the UL(ultralux) if you can deal with the barrel length it is very nice with cbee rounds [popcorn] i think that price is good, you might want to ask on rimfirecentral (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18) there are people there in better shape to to watch prices. ;)
oh and cz announced some new guns that sound nice, might want to look at them first. :facepalm:
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a 452 17hrm trainer is on my covet list
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-452-special-military-training-rifle/
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one more thing to think about is the UL(ultralux) if you can deal with the barrel length it is very nice with cbee rounds [popcorn] i think that price is good, you might want to ask on rimfirecentral (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18) there are people there in better shape to to watch prices. ;)
oh and cz announced some new guns that sound nice, might want to look at them first. :facepalm:
Eh. I'm not going to be a guinea pig on the 455. If they were cheaper I might. In a couple years when the lower cost shops (Buds, Wholesale Hunter, Whittakers) have them and they've been throroughly shaken down by other people, then maybe.
The UL doesn't tickle me for some reason. The regular Lux though is something that I eventually do want to buy.
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I have the 452 Trainer rifle.
I was looking for a rifle with good iron sights and a rifle to closely replicate the feel and accuracy of my Winchester 69 .22 rifle.
I found it in the CZ 452.
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I have a CZ 527 in 7.62 x 39. I love that little gun... :'(
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My plain jane 452 is second on my "Would only sell to fund medical emergencies, after selling blood couldn't cover the fees" list. I paid around $250 used in immaculate shape, but that was about 4 years ago.
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a 452 17hrm trainer is on my covet list
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-452-special-military-training-rifle/
Anything CZ is on my covet list. They have many many things on that website I really really want.
Blargh.
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My bro has a 452 - great little gun.
I have a CZ 527 in 7.62 x 39. I love that little gun... :'(
I've been wanting one of those since they came out.
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I love mine, but you knew that already. Holds the 10 ring at 100 yds no problem and that was with the Wolf ammo. ;)
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How much are mags for the 527? I <3 those lil things.
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I have to say I don't recall I'm afraid, I've had it a few years now. I don't remember them being overly expensive.
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Getting back to the rimfire models, I loved that one could safely dry fire them without damaging the firing pin. A significant advantage, in my mind.
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Getting back to the rimfire models
Yes sorry, just paying homage to my gun. You all know how it is. =D
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Getting back to the rimfire models
So, should I hold out for a 453, or should I snatch up this 452 while I have the chance?
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I dunno about the varmint model, never handled one. If the weight and balance are right I'd snatch it up, myself. Guess it also depends on what you're using it for however...
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I dunno about the varmint model, never handled one. If the weight and balance are right I'd snatch it up, myself. Guess it also depends on what you're using it for however...
I don't care quite so much about the difference between an American and a Varmint as the difference between a 452 and a 453. The only real difference between the models is the 452 has a decent, adjustable single stage trigger. The 453 has the same single-set trigger that my 550's have. That set-trigger also has the effect, even in un-set mode, of increasing the length of pull (1/4"-1/2").
My main purpose in buying the rimfire is to have a gun that I can shoot high volumes of ammo through without bruising my shoulder or my wallet. Basically marksmanship practice. It might get used for small game hunting, but that's very secondary. Anyway, the closer it is to my hunting rifles the better. Hence why I originally wanted a 453. But then the folks at RFC suggested that unless most of my hunting involved using the set-trigger option (so far it's about 40% that I used or should have used the set-trigger option) that I'd be just as well off with a 452, and could save, if I buy this used one that's available, $225 in the process.
I like the idea of saving the money, but also like the idea of getting a 453 while SWMBO is still OK with it. Not to say I couldn't sell the 452 in a few years and get a 453 to replace it though.
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Also, forgot to mention this.
Uncle has a .17HMR Anschutz that is totally sweet. I was popping everything I wanted at 100 yards with it.
Holy crap.
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Well, I'm going to go ahead and get that 452. Now I'll just need to get going on ordering the scope, cleaning rod, ammo, etc.
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Don't order a coated .22 rod. The CZs are often tight in the bore and can cause binding.
Do get yourself a bore guide and either a .20 or .17 caliber rod. I use a .17 cal rod with an adaptor for the threads for the .22 cleaning implements. And don't order from Eric Brooks...
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I was looking a Dewey .20cal rod. All the folks at RFC say the CZ's bores are too tight for most .22 rods to fit.
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Or do what I do and get a boresnake then forget to ever use it. :lol:
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On the (very) rare occasion I clean my 452, I just use a .22 boresnake. Seems to work well.
Beautiful rifles; mine has a crack in the stock from a few years back though... I had done some trigger mods I'd gotten from RimfireCentral.com, and wanted to test it to make sure it didn't fire from a little jolt afterwards. Note: Smacking the butt on a thin carpet floor with thin padding over concrete is not conducive to the health and safety of your firearm.
Also had the end of the barrel drilled and tapped to take iron sights. The holes ended up being too shallow to really hold a sight, so now I just have two ugly drilled holes in the end of the barrel. Learned a bit about how and what mods I'll do or have done, depending on the firearm.
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I was looking a Dewey .20cal rod. All the folks at RFC say the CZ's bores are too tight for most .22 rods to fit.
it's kinda cool if you have a microgroove(just marlin i think) looking down the barrels(take the bolts out i can't stand looking the other way [tinfoil]) the actually looks smaller. [popcorn] but the marlin(mine at least :angel:) seems to(i'm to lazy to set up to check :angel:) stabilize the agula sss rounds. ???
edit: seems like this isn't a good comparison (http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxell/microgrove-barrels.htm)(whoa i spelled that right the first time :O)
They also mentioned "...a bore of greater than standard size..." in their discussion of how Microgroove rifling did not engrave (distort) a bullet jacket as deeply as conventional rifling.
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I should get a couple .22 bore snakes...will keep me from having to disassemble the more annoying ones to clean from the chamber first.
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I love mine, but you knew that already. Holds the 10 ring at 100 yds no problem and that was with the Wolf ammo. ;)
I know Wolf has a bad rap for accuracy in general but I was under the impression that their .22LR was top notch and made in Germany.
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Sorry, thread drift on my part, I was talking about 7.62 x 39 Wolf. Which also has a bad rap for accuracy but seems to shoot just fine through my 527.
I know a few guys that use the Wolf .22 for target pistol. I like CCI standard velocity in the blue label PLASTIC box. Others use Aguila and a few use the federal gold match which, if you ask me, is too pricey.
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I had a Training Rifle (purchased in 2002 for $229) that would shoot the whisker off a gnat. =D The iron sights were the best I've ever seen on any rifle, period. The rear sight slid up and down a ramp that was marked for various ranges and it would hit to point of aim at each of them. I put a scope on it, but it was pretty much superfluous, only helping me to see the target better. You have to select front lens diameter and ring height carefully. Unfortunately I was forced to sell it. :facepalm:
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You have to select front lens diameter and ring height carefully.
With the Varmint barrel profile, for the 40mm objective on the scope I plan to use, I'll be using the Burris Sig. rings in high profile.
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I know a few guys that use the Wolf .22 for target pistol. I like CCI standard velocity in the blue label PLASTIC box. Others use Aguila and a few use the federal gold match which, if you ask me, is too pricey.
If you ask me Federal should be banned from making rimfire ammo. Somewhere in my stash is an unfired round of Federal Gold Target, the grade below their match. It was $25 a brick back when everything else was $9-12 a brick. Nice little wagon wheel on it from the 8 times I re-indexed it in the chamber to see if it would fire. I was about 2 failure to fire per 50 rounds. Their cheaper stuff is of course atrocious, much as any of the bulk pack brands.
I've shot a bunch of the Wolf .22, good stuff. I have been happiest with crappy PMC sidewinder which for a time I had at $90/5000 rounds. Made in Mexico, I'm thinking on Aguila's line, which would mean Eley priming. Very consistent stuff. CCI green tag is a reliable go to for ammo I know is going to act right, and the mini-mag is about all I hunt with.
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yea, I do recall a few duds in the Federal gold I tried. Not the reason I left it though, to me it seemed snappier than most and made it harder to come back on target during (pistol) sustained fire rounds. I'll have to take a look at the cci green. I've shot thousands of rounds of CCI Blue and very rarely does one fail to fire. The plastic box is very consistent as well. People will try to tell you the stuff in the blue cardboard box (Standard Velocity) is the same stuff but don't believe them. The cardboard box ammo is not nearly as consistent as the stuff in the plastic box. Some say it has to do with which machine they make each with, the plastic box stuff being made on a newer/better machine. Don't know for sure myself.