Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: BrokenPaw on April 20, 2010, 12:09:17 PM
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...they look innocent enough until you start, and then you keep getting deeper and deeper.
This weekend was the first time I had available to repair two vehicle issues: The head-up display on my car wasn't working (broken mirror-angle spring bracket), and my truck was throwing a code that indicated that either the camshaft position sensor or the crankshaft position sensor was broken. Or possibly both.
The Haynes manual for the car doesn't even dance around the issue of the HUD: "Go to your dealer. Here there be dragons." But the dealer wants $600-$800 to replace the broken bracket. Nope. A little google-fu later, and I have instructions for how to repair the hud. It's a lunchbox-sized unit that lives under the dash behind the instrument panel. Through the windshield, I can see the broken bracket, not six inches from my nose. All I have to do is open up the HUD, and drill a new hole in the bracket, and reattach the spring. Simple.
But to get to it, I have to take the top of the dash off. And to undo the third screw that holds the HUD in place, I have to remove the instrument cluster. Which means pulling the front of the dash (top and bottom), which requires pulling the center-console cover and the OBD-II connector, and the bezel around the ignition keyhole...and...and...and. The whole actual repair part took 5 minutes: open HUD, remove mirror and motor, remove bracket, marvel at the idiocy of whoever thought that 1/32" of plastic was enough to support a spring under tension, drill new hole in sturdier part of bracket, wipe everything down, reassemble. But the taking-apart-the-whole-dash-and-then-putting-it-all-back-together part...that took the balance of two hours. On the upside: $0 repair, and the HUD works like new.
Then...then I decide to have a go at the truck. OK, it's either the crank sensor or the cam sensor. Or both. Crank sensor costs $90, and I can get it at the parts shop up the street. Cam sensor costs $75, and there's apparently only one of them in the entire state of Northern Virginia, and that's at a dealership way the heck out in inconvenientville. Parts department at the dealership is already closed at 5PM on Saturday, and doesn't open back up until Monday.
I don't know which one I need to replace. Hmm. What does Haynes say I would need to do to test them? Oh. It'll take tools I don't have (that would cost me more than the price of the sensor), and time I don't want to spend. Ok, well, so let's replace one, and see if that fixes the problem. Using the scientific selection algorithm of "I can get the crank sensor today", I decided to replace that one first.
Where is it? On the engine block, behind the right exhaust manifold. Haynes recommends putting the truck up on jackstands, pulling the the right front tire, and removing the fender splash panel. Which requires that I (Haynes says) "pry out the plastic retaining pins". Except, oh, oops, they're not pry-out-able; they're the plastic equivalent of pop rivets, and the only way to get them out is to destroy them. =|
Once that's all done, I can finally see the bloody sensor. Two bolts, which (fortunately) have Allen sockets in them, because there's no 1/2" crescent or socket wrench going to fit in that space. Bolts come out easily, old sensor comes out, new sensor goes in, bolts go back in...Haynes says to tighten them to 70 inch-pounds. Yeah. Right. With the torque wrench that's even longer than the socket and crescent wrenches that already don't fit in there. Ok, so we'll use the Allan wrench to tighten them to...there. We'll call that 70 in-lbs. ;/
On the up side, it was the crank sensor that was the problem, so the truck's back all happy, with no trip to the dealer in inconvenientville.
It's a heck of a lot cheaper to do this stuff for myself, but sometimes I wonder whether it's worth it.
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It's a heck of a lot cheaper to do this stuff for myself, but sometimes I wonder whether it's worth it.
I tend to agree.
I had the motor mounts croak on my mustang. This, I think, shouldn't be bad - I've had motor mounts out of a 4 cylinder before without trouble.
Except that on a V8, they are under the engine. the engine cradles into them.
Ummm... No.
I paid a shop in town $500 to buy the parts, do it and replace a U-Joint while they were under there.
Money will spent, I think.
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Hey, at least you could get to it. I had a '90 Taurus SHO that seemed to take a special tool and total disassembly of several major body any/or engine components in order to fix anything. Crank position sensor? Complete removal of the cam chain cover assemblies and most of the front suspension on the passenger side. Total time about 6 hours if you had all the right tools and arms like piano wire.
I tried doing it myself. Once.
Brad
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In other news, my old Case tractor wouldn't start yesterday. Last time I had it started was September when it fired on the first crank after sitting for a year.
Judging from the amp gauge while cranking, it had spark, so I pulled off the carb.
Sure enough, the bowl was full of rusty water ;/ so I spent an hour soaking it in fresh gas and WD-40, scraping and poking, and blowing it out with the air compressor. Put it back together, and it pops right off with a nice throaty growl =)
No computers, no sensors, no dealer only parts :cool:
And yeah, this time I shut off the gas valve and let it run out ;)
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It coulda been worse... I had an Oldsmobile with a Quad4 once. Awesome engine, until you need to fix it. The crank sensor went out, and the Haynes manual was so vague I couldn't find the damn thing for several months. Eventually, I found it, it turned out to be fairly accessible, but the sensor broke in half and the half was stuck in the hole. This half is a magnet. Drilling magnets is a royal b4.
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1994 BMW 325is
Starter motor.
Haynes Manual
Step 1: Disconnect battery ground.
Step 2: Remove intake manifold (see chapter 7)
Step 3 . . . "Wait, what?"
BMW, in their wisdom, decided to place the starter motor for this vehicle on TOP of the bell housing, snugged in tight inside the hump. You have to literally disassemble the top of the engine, removing the Intake manifold, which is a gigantic swooping aluminum piece with long runners that covers most of the top of the I-6 engine. Total cost JUST in gaskets and other non-reusable parts needed to be replaced was over $100. There are 6 dealer-only o-rings between the intake manifold and the head instead of just one gasket. They were about $12 each. Etc. etc. etc. Total time replacing the starter with 2 guys: 12 hours.
That was the last time I helped my friend with his car.
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i had a rough idle and lack of power on my 1.8 turbo VW.
I usually borrow a buddies code reader, but he was out of town,
so i dropped it off at VW for a diagnostic session with their machinery
They reported 1 bad ignition coil and another that had thrown a code
They recommended replacing all 4 coil packs at 89 dollars each with 1000 in labor
I said no thanks, paid for my 85 freaking dollar, 2 minute code read, and bought 1 coilpack from the parts department.
(I gather they mark up the parts 2x cause they charged me 39 bucks at the parts counter)
I pulled out of the lot, into the COSTCO lot next door and changed out the first coil pack.
The entire process took 1 minute. The car ran fine. FU stealership.
I have since changed everyone on the engine. it takes 1 hour tops for all 4.
I gather there are plenty of customers lined up in Gaithersburgh, MD that have more cash
then either time or ability.
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Subaru wanted $1000+ to replace a catalytic converter.
We went to a local muffler/welding shop, and they grafted in a generic one for about $200.
Only it gets worse: a couple days after buying the car used with a warranty from the Subaru dealer, the engine light came on - because the converter was plugged. But the drive train warranty didn't cover it. We're pretty sure the light had been on before but the dealer pulled the battery cable for a while to clear it just long enough to sell it. :mad:
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Threads like this make me love my car more and more.
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Threads like this make me love my car more and more.
Wait until you have to replace the upstream O2 sensors or the right rear shock. =D
Brad
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Already replaced all four shocks. ???
How bad is the O2 sensor?
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If your arms are four feet long and you have no skeletal structure, no problem. The two downstream sensors are a snap. The upstream ones, not so much. Yours is a newer model than mine so it may be a little better. In my 2002 it was a severe PITA.
Brad
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Nope, that's a '99. =D
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Subaru wanted $1000+ to replace a catalytic converter.
We went to a local muffler/welding shop, and they grafted in a generic one for about $200.
Only it gets worse: a couple days after buying the car used with a warranty from the Subaru dealer, the engine light came on - because the converter was plugged. But the drive train warranty didn't cover it. We're pretty sure the light had been on before but the dealer pulled the battery cable for a while to clear it just long enough to sell it. :mad:
I can top that...
I took my Explorer to the Ford dealer here in town because it was idling extremely rough and the warning light was on. They told me I needed a completely new engine because I had a cracked cylinder head. Estimate was around $4500.
I decided to take it to someone else to have them check it out and get a second opinion. Guy said if it WAS a cracked cylinder head, he could just replace the head and do the job for like $900.
Turns out, all it needed was a few new spark plugs. :facepalm:
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Nope, that's a '99. =D
Hope you have skinny friends. :laugh:
Brad
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Subaru wanted $1000+ to replace a catalytic converter.
We went to a local muffler/welding shop, and they grafted in a generic one for about $200.
Only it gets worse: a couple days after buying the car used with a warranty from the Subaru dealer, the engine light came on - because the converter was plugged. But the drive train warranty didn't cover it. We're pretty sure the light had been on before but the dealer pulled the battery cable for a while to clear it just long enough to sell it. :mad:
My beater '91 Saturn needed a new catalytic converter, which would have cost $500 ($400 more than what the car is worth). The converter was all rusted out, noisy as hell, and didn't do anything, and the car is too old for emissions testing.
I went around to some garages to see if they could replace the converter with a length of straight pipe. Can't do it, as it would be illegal to replace a non-functioning converter with a length of pipe that does the same amount of emission control. So I cut the catalytic converter off myself and replaced it with a length of pipe.
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My beater '91 Saturn needed a new catalytic converter, which would have cost $500 ($400 more than what the car is worth). The converter was all rusted out, noisy as hell, and didn't do anything, and the car is too old for emissions testing.
I went around to some garages to see if they could replace the converter with a length of straight pipe. Can't do it, as it would be illegal to replace a non-functioning converter with a length of pipe that does the same amount of emission control. So I cut the catalytic converter off myself and replaced it with a length of pipe.
I had a van that was rear-ended. I needed to drive for a month until the insurance payment came through and I got a new car. The exhaust was leaking and I was afraid I would pass out and hit a tree. I went to a muffler shop and they refused to weld up the hole. They said they could only replace the pipe at the cost of $250. I had the $250, but I bought a welding rig instead and welded up the hole myself. :)
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Hmmmm.... 1978 Ford E250, If I can't fix it I will junk it. No 'puter, smog, cat....wait, none of those new fangled things that go broken at the least opportune time. :cool:
bob
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But the taking-apart-the-whole-dash-and-then-putting-it-all-back-together part...that took the balance of two hours.
I have a list of little things to do when I get around to pulling the dash out of my Blazer. Might as well wait until I have enough to justify it.
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98 honda crv requires you to disassemble a good bit of dash to replace "cabin air filter"
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Going catless isn't much of an option on new cars. If your o2 sensor is ahead of the cat and you have an older car, go ahead. Your old cat is worthless and wasn't doing the job. Find an out of the way exhaust and muffler shop, offer them cash, and drive away with a test pipe. Look for obvious signs of EPA violations outside and an interior plastered with photos of their customers hot rods and demo derby vehicles.
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Going catless isn't much of an option on new cars. If your o2 sensor is ahead of the cat and you have an older car, go ahead. Your old cat is worthless and wasn't doing the job. Find an out of the way exhaust and muffler shop, offer them cash, and drive away with a test pipe. Look for obvious signs of EPA violations outside and an interior plastered with photos of their customers hot rods and demo derby vehicles.
Yep, that's called the Montana Modification ;)
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Subaru wanted $1000+ to replace a catalytic converter.
We went to a local muffler/welding shop, and they grafted in a generic one for about $200.
Only it gets worse: a couple days after buying the car used with a warranty from the Subaru dealer, the engine light came on - because the converter was plugged. But the drive train warranty didn't cover it. We're pretty sure the light had been on before but the dealer pulled the battery cable for a while to clear it just long enough to sell it. :mad:
How many miles were on it? There's a federal emissions warranty requirement that runs till 80k miles I think. When we bought our 2003 Camry in 2006, the cat went bad about a thousand miles later. It was still within the 80k emissions warranty, so it was replaced for free.
Chris
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How many miles were on it? There's a federal emissions warranty requirement that runs till 80k miles I think. When we bought our 2003 Camry in 2006, the cat went bad about a thousand miles later. It was still within the 80k emissions warranty, so it was replaced for free.
Chris
100K ++
It was a 95 or 97 ?
Anyway, it was a lemon :( The other thing that happened was that both rear axles went out within a year (and not very many miles, just to the bus stop and back, mostly). But the mechanic discovered that the "boots" had been tampered with, thus voiding that expensive drive train warranty. I know that it hadn't been messed with while we had it, so it had to have left the dealer that way, even though they supposedly did this wonderful 128 (or so) point inspection. ;/
Later, it kept having various problems, all of which required a couple hundred dollars for a dealer to diagnose, as Subaru apparently doesn't share their fault codes. I think she got $100 or so for it as scrap. =(
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You know what frustrates me about cars (pickups, suvs, etc) is that almost anything made in the last 20 years has power everything: windows, doorlocks, seats, etc.
That stuff usually dies long before the engine these days, so you end up with a good running car which is mostly unusable.
The older cars would go through two or three engines if you wanted to keep them going. (I think the difference is in the modern oil, not the engines =| )
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I resisted power windows and locks for a long time, but the last 3-4 cars I've owned have had power locks and windows. Only one had problems before I sold it, non with fewer than 150k. My 97 4Runner has 175k (my daily driver) and has 5 power windows, a power moonroof, and power locks. All work flawlessly. In fact, the driver's side lock core is getting tough to open at times, but the power portion gets me in every time.
I did lose the power portion of my Camry's driver side lock, but the key still worked fine. I dumped it at roughly 157k for other issues (and the insane trade-in I got).
I read several years ago that power windows are cheaper than mechanical ones, which is why they're nearly universal.
Chris
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The power locks on my daughter's Cherokee are randomly locking and unlocking themselves, but of course they don't work when you push the buttons =(
She's 1500 miles away so I can't help her with it right now.
Just last week one of the door latches completely broke so it wouldn't stay shut. It was something like $250 to fix :mad: