Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: RevDisk on May 22, 2010, 12:25:14 PM
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http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/19/news/companies/SEIU_Bank_of_America_protest.fortune/index.htm
(FORTUNE) -- Every journalist loves a peaceful protest-whether it makes news, shakes up a political season, or holds out the possibility of altering history. Then there are the ones that show up on your curb--literally.
Last Sunday, on a peaceful, sun-crisp afternoon, our toddler finally napping upstairs, my front yard exploded with 500 screaming, placard-waving strangers on a mission to intimidate my neighbor, Greg Baer. Baer is deputy general counsel for corporate law at Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500), a senior executive based in Washington, D.C. And that -- in the minds of the organizers at the politically influential Service Employees International Union and a Chicago outfit called National Political Action -- makes his family fair game.
Waving signs denouncing bank "greed," hordes of invaders poured out of 14 school buses, up Baer's steps, and onto his front porch. As bullhorns rattled with stories of debtor calls and foreclosed homes, Baer's teenage son Jack -- alone in the house -- locked himself in the bathroom. "When are they going to leave?" Jack pleaded when I called to check on him.
Baer, on his way home from a Little League game, parked his car around the corner, called the police, and made a quick calculation to leave his younger son behind while he tried to rescue his increasingly distressed teen. He made his way through a din of barked demands and insults from the activists who proudly "outed" him, and slipped through his front door.
"Excuse me," Baer told his accusers, "I need to get into the house. I have a child who is alone in there and frightened."
When is a protest not a protest?
Now this event would accurately be called a "protest" if it were taking place at, say, a bank or the U.S. Capitol. But when hundreds of loud and angry strangers are descending on your family, your children, and your home, a more apt description of this assemblage would be "mob." Intimidation was the whole point of this exercise, and it worked-even on the police. A trio of officers who belatedly answered our calls confessed a fear that arrests might "incite" these trespassers.
What's interesting is that SEIU, the nation's second largest union, craves respectability. Just-retired president Andy Stern is an Obama friend and regular White House visitor. He sits on the President's Fiscal Responsibility Commission. He hobnobs with those greedy Wall Street CEOs -- executives much higher-ranking than my neighbor Baer -- at Davos. His union spent $70 million getting Democrats elected in 2008.
In the business community, though, SEIU has a reputation for strong-arm tactics against management, prompting some companies to file suit.
Now those strong-arm tactics, stirred by supposedly free-floating (as opposed to organized) populist rage, have come to the neighborhood curb. Last year it was AIG executives -- with protestors met by security guard outside. Now it's any executive -- and they're on the front stoop. After Baer's house, the 14 buses left to descend on the nearby residence of Peter Scher, a government relations executive at JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500).
Targeting homes and families seems to put SEIU in the ranks of (now jailed) radical animal-rights activists and the Kansas anti-gay fundamentalists harassing the grieving parents of a dead 20-year-old soldier at his funeral (the Supreme Court has agreed to weigh in on the latter). But that's not a conversation that SEIU officials want to have.
When I asked Stephen Lerner, SEIU's point-person on Wall Street reform, about these tactics, he accused me of getting "emotional." Lerner was more comfortable sticking to his talking points: "Millions of people are losing their homes, and they have gone to the banks, which are turning a deaf ear."
Okay, fine, then why not continue SEIU protests at bank offices and shareholder meetings-as the union has been doing for more than a year? Lerner insists, "People in powerful corporations seem to think they can insulate themselves from the damage they are doing."
Other reasons why SEIU might protest
Bank of America officials dispute Lerner's assertion about the "damage they are doing," citing the success of workout programs to help distressed homeowners, praise received from community groups, the bank's support of financial reform legislation, and the little-noticed fact that Bank of America exited the subprime lending business in 2001.
SEIU has said it wants to organize bank tellers and call centers -- and its critics point out that a great way to worsen employee morale, thereby making workers more susceptible to union calls, is to batter a bank's image through protest. (SEIU officials say their anti-Wall Street campaign has nothing to do with their organizing efforts.) Complicating this picture is the fact that BofA is the union's lender of choice -- and SEIU, suffering financially, owes the bank nearly $4 million in interest and fees. Bank of America declined comment on the loans.
But SEIU's intentions, and BofA's lender record, are ripe subjects to debate in Congress, on air, at shareholder hearings. Not in Greg Baer's front yard.
Why the media wasn't invited
Sunday's onslaught wasn't designed for mainstream media consumption. There were no reporters from organizations like the Washington Post, no local camera crews who might have aired criticism of this private-home invasion. With the media covering the conservative Tea Party protesters, the behavior of individual activists has drawn withering scrutiny.
Instead, a friendly Huffington Post blogger showed up, narrowcasting coverage to the union's leftist base. The rest of the message these protesters brought was personal-aimed at frightening Baer and his family, not influencing a broader public.
Of course, HuffPost readers responding to the coverage assumed that Baer was an evil former Bush official. He's not. A lifelong Democrat, Baer worked for the Clinton Treasury Department, and his wife, Shirley Sagawa, author of the book The American Way to Change and a former adviser to Hillary Clinton, is a prominent national service advocate.
In the 1990s, the Baers' former bosses, Bill and Hillary Clinton, denounced the "politics of personal destruction." Today politicians and their voters of all stripes grieve the ugly bitterness that permeates our policy debates. Now, with populist rage providing a useful cover, it appears we've crossed into a new era: The politics of personal intimidation. To top of page
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Gods. Yes, THIS time they were "peaceful". How in the hell do you protect your home against a "Black Hawk Down" scenario where you are being overrun by hundreds of savages? Even the cops refused to assist. Why the hell didn't they call for riot police like when old Tea Party grandmothers wave American flags?
If a reporter wasn't a neighbor and as thoroughly angry about this happening in his neighborhood, I think this would never have seen the light.
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did you mention the protestors got a dc police escort into md for the event?
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How in the hell do you protect your home against a "Black Hawk Down" scenario where you are being overrun by hundreds of savages? Even the cops refused to assist.
I believe that's what they invented belt-fed automatic weapons for.
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I believe that's what they invented belt-fed automatic weapons for.
Which are not legal to buy or build new. And the price for transferable ones has inflated well beyond reasonable levels due to government distortion of the market.
Shame the executive wasn't a 2A nut. It'd make an excellent case to throw against the feds for overthrowing the Hughes Amendment. "My house was overrun and the feds are preventing me from exercising my RKBA of effective weapons in case they do so again."
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Which are not legal to buy or build new. And the price for transferable ones has inflated well beyond reasonable levels due to government distortion of the market.
True, but I bet this guy could afford one. Luckily, he didn't need it for this particular event.
Shame the executive wasn't a 2A nut. It'd make an excellent case to throw against the feds for overthrowing the Hughes Amendment. "My house was overrun and the feds are preventing me from exercising my RKBA of effective weapons in case they do so again."
I think his house would have actually had to of been vandalized or destroyed, and him or his family with it for that to work, though. I don't think the court would be sympathetic to gunning down protesters for mere trespass.
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I don't think the court would be sympathetic to gunning down protesters for mere trespass.
He should move to Texas.....not only can a homeowner defend himself, but his neighbors may also help out.... :cool:
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True, but I bet this guy could afford one. Luckily, he didn't need it for this particular event.
I think his house would have actually had to of been vandalized or destroyed, and him or his family with it for that to work, though. I don't think the court would be sympathetic to gunning down protesters for mere trespass.
And exactly nothing stopped them from doing so if they wished? They were already invading the man's property, obviously attempting to intimidate the man's home and family, etc. Yes, gunning down unarmed protesters is usually bad. But it could have easily gone that route and he would have been virtually helpless even if he bought the best weapons, carried an improbable amount of ammo and had the finest training from anywhere on the planet.
The only thing that can stop a mob of savages outnumbering you several hundred to one is gunships, fixed defenses (landmines, claymores, etc) or a machine gun.
Know why there's as many heavy crew served weapons on the NFA registry as there are? Protection from unions. There is a nickname for the M2HB other than "Ma Deuce", it is "labor relations". Most folks are unaware of the terrorist tactics of the 1920's, 1930's unions. Arson, train wrecks, murder, etc. Coal companies didn't exactly stock up on US Army ordinance for entertainment. Their company goons knew they'd be corpses unless they had heavy weaponry to hold off mobs. Thankfully, BECAUSE they had heavy MG's, they were not often needed.
Do you think these SEIU goons would pull these intimidation tactics if they knew the average home owner could hold them at bay? Whether said home owners owned MG's or did not is kinda besides the point.
This is not a theoretical "What If?" exercise. The aerospace industry is well unionized. A certain well known union (well known for intimidation) sent two goons to a coworker's house when he was working for a different company. Two large well muscled "gentlemen" asking him why he dared to make anti-union comments and that for health reasons, he should stop doing so. My buddy was single and made stupid bank, and happened to own NFA weapons. He inserted the muzzle of a MAC-11 into the left nostril of the closer gentleman and escorted them off the property. They did not come back.
This wasn't 80 years ago. It was about 5 or 6.
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Didn't say I disagreed. I just said it'd take something a bit more than this to convince the court than this specific incident. Unfortunately, they aren't quite as big a bunch of gun nuts as we are.
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I was beginning to think I didn't really need my AR-15 and could sell it to buy other fun toys.
Maybe having one or two rifles with large magazine capacities isn't such a bad idea.
A belt-fed would be nice, but that's not really my style. I'm better with semi-auto.
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the unions are trying to goad you into a bad act never forget that. they train to provoke . its very well organized and highly orchestrated
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Fun and games in the sandbox. How long before one of the kids pulls a knife? It's coming, and the Left will blame us, no matter what.
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Know why there's as many heavy crew served weapons on the NFA registry as there are? Protection from unions. There is a nickname for the M2HB other than "Ma Deuce", it is "labor relations". Most folks are unaware of the terrorist tactics of the 1920's, 1930's unions. Arson, train wrecks, murder, etc. Coal companies didn't exactly stock up on US Army ordinance for entertainment. Their company goons knew they'd be corpses unless they had heavy weaponry to hold off mobs. Thankfully, BECAUSE they had heavy MG's, they were not often needed.
Is there a link or book you can point me to on this topic? So the weapons they owned were grandfathered into the NFA? Did purchases of such weapons decrease with the advent of the law? Was the law passed, in part, to keep companies from defending themselves?
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http://www.wvculture.org/history/minewars.html
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the unions are trying to goad you into a bad act never forget that. they train to provoke . its very well organized and highly orchestrated
If an angry mob enters my house, I will definitely be provoked into a "bad act".
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If an angry mob enters my house, I will definitely be provoked into a "bad act".
If an angry mob actually crossed the threshold there should no longer be any doubt in anyone's mind about their intention to cause serious bodily harm or death.
I'd still like to be able to avoid the use of lethal force, but in that situation I just cannot see any way around it. As long as they are still merely trampling the flowerbeds and keying the paintjob on the family transportation I'd be content trying to get as many pictures as possible and then filing lawsuits for damages, as well as warrants after the fact for criminal trespass. None of that offers the immediate satisfaction of contemplating seeing them fall in winnrows, but it does allow me a little more time outside the correctional system.
If there is any concern that this spontaneous demonstration might be repeated, Mr. Baer might consider adding some fire mains and hose to strategic locations around his property. I'll have to research Maryland law, but in Virginia it would be lawful to turn the hoses on them if they refused your invitation to "get off my lawn".
And to think that when I was a mere adolescent I actually though labor unions still served a meaningful purpose. [tinfoil]
stay safe.
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If an angry mob actually crossed the threshold there should no longer be any doubt in anyone's mind about their intention to cause serious bodily harm or death.
I'd still like to be able to avoid the use of lethal force, but in that situation I just cannot see any way around it. As long as they are still merely trampling the flowerbeds and keying the paintjob on the family transportation I'd be content trying to get as many pictures as possible and then filing lawsuits for damages, as well as warrants after the fact for criminal trespass. None of that offers the immediate satisfaction of contemplating seeing them fall in winnrows, but it does allow me a little more time outside the correctional system.
If there is any concern that this spontaneous demonstration might be repeated, Mr. Baer might consider adding some fire mains and hose to strategic locations around his property. I'll have to research Maryland law, but in Virginia it would be lawful to turn the hoses on them if they refused your invitation to "get off my lawn"
And to think that when I was a mere adolescent I actually though labor unions still served a meaningful purpose. [tinfoil]
stay safe.
bet the house has a sprinkler system
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bet the house has a sprinkler system
That could be plumbed to a large tank of mace.
Actually, all kidding aside, If I were that executive I'd be looking at how to install 3 or 4 Repulsar IV's (http://www.securitysolutionsworld.com/store.php?crn=230) on my porch, wired to a panic button. With a couple of decent fans, it should keep you're yard clear for a while. Give them a warning, hit the fans, and then let'er rip.
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Is there a link or book you can point me to on this topic? So the weapons they owned were grandfathered into the NFA? Did purchases of such weapons decrease with the advent of the law? Was the law passed, in part, to keep companies from defending themselves?
I'll have a look through my collection.
Remember, in 1934, when NFA was passed, $200 was a lot of money. The tax stamp cost more than a lot of the weapons it restricted. You could buy an old sawed off for $5-20 at the time. Plus, it wasn't really uniformly enforced or publicized until the 1960's. WWI and WWII vets brought home a LOT of hardware and most of them didn't register anything. Folks just removed the bolts from the MG's and claimed it was a DEWAT. They figured if they got in trouble, they'd pay the $200 and be done with it.
For companies, $200 wasn't a concern and they were a bit more visible, so they didn't want to get hauled in front of a judge for threatening an angry mob with an illegal weapon. So they just paid the $200 to be legit.
NFA was officially passed in response to the Mob wars of Prohibition. Which slammed to a halt exactly one year before NFA was passed. Since Prohibition, not ONE now-legal alcohol manufacturer or distributor has gotten into a fire fight with a rival legal alcohol manufacturer or distributor. Most sane (and cynical) folks believe that NFA was passed to give all of those Revenuers something to police instead of booze.
A google search of "coal company automatic weapons" could give you plenty of hits. Company goons had crew served, subguns, grenades, etc. Pretty much anything in the US Army standard, a lot of companies had as well. Had to. Unions were not infrequently violent and destructive terrorists, and more than a few companies were complete and utter scumbags that played every trick in the book to shortchange their workers.
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saw that on Glenn Beck, happened in MD ... right? they have rotten laws there.
afaik without a fence and "keep out" sign there isn't much legally ( ianal though)
seiu is getting a lot of bad press though, perhaps there needs to be a demo at their houses too. We should fight fire with fire.
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I was beginning to think I didn't really need my AR-15 and could sell it to buy other fun toys.
Maybe having one or two rifles with large magazine capacities isn't such a bad idea.
Do not sell it. Ever.
Sure other guns may be more practical on an everyday basis. A scoped bolt gun for hunting, a pump shotgun for HD against 1 or 2 thieves. A few handguns for CCW. AR-15s might just be a range toy 99% of the time, or more even. But you never know when that one situation may come up when you really wish you had the ability to throw dozens of rounds downrange or you're a gonner.
If that was my neighbor I would have thrown on my IBA, grabbed my AR and probably stood on my porch for all to see in case they started to have a a mind for violence. No brandishing or pointing, just standing there on my property to give them a moment of pause.
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The mob was "peaceful" (although i don't call invading a man's private property peaceful) this time. In the near future, they are going to be firebombing people's homes.
And not a damn thing is going to be done about it by local LE. Especially when the mobs are getting police support.
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In the near future, they are going to be firebombing people's homes.
And not a damn thing is going to be done about it by local LE.
Supporters of such tyranny should remember that not all of their coworkers and neighbors are blind sheep.
If push comes to shove, they CAN be touched.
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I believe that's what they invented belt-fed automatic weapons for.
If you have to light up crew-served weapons in the house, it's pretty much a write-off anyway; might as well just grab the lawnmower gas can, set a candle next to it by the front door, and take cover in the next room with your shotgun. The first ones through the door will regret it.
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bet the house has a sprinkler system
That was my first thought when I saw pictures of the goons on the lawn . . .
That could be plumbed to a large tank of mace.
Or maybe that indelible ink the banks put into exploding dye packets of money?
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Get off my lawn! Followed by a dose of this?
http://www.stungunshq.com/pepper-spray/large-volume-pepper-spray.html
>:D
Seriously, though, I'm actually revising my desire to purchase an AR. I don't antcipate having my home invaded by SEIU THUGS, but will be living in the suburbs near Houston. I remember Hurricane Andrew and the after party looting.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fz.hubpages.com%2Fu%2F292494_f260.jpg&hash=67003b1ca22d647d49ee79db39c15746d80f0d5f)
Release the Hounds.
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In 1990, as a newspaper reporter, I was in the middle of a VERY ugly hospital strike where SEIU was the representing union. The publisher of the newspaper, Jim, just happened to be the chairman of the hospital's board of directors. That made my job REAL fun.
SEIU pulled this crap at Jim's house while his kids were there and he was away. They also picketed the newspaper offices and several businesses of board members.
Jim took out a restraining order and asked that union members keep at least 300 yards away from his house. The Union sent their lawyer to argue against it, and when he got lippy with the judge (a real hard ass) over terms of the restraining order, the judge simply imposed everything in the order and dismissed the court.
I was threatened several times over my photographing the strikers.
The head rabble rouser fro the union. I still remember her clearly. What a *expletive deleted* obnoxious, hard core bitch of a *expletive deleted* from hell she was.
When the strike was finally settled, both she and Jim complemented me on the neutrality and fairness of my reporting.
The unfortunately part of it is is that strike has left rifts in that community that still haven't healed after 20 years.
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the union is not concerned in any way with rifts.
they take "my way or the highway" to a new level
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the union is not concerned in any way with rifts.
they take "my way or the highway" to a new level
Which is precisely why the American auto industry is crumbling like it is. They'll destroy a company if it means a few more dollars an hour for them right now.
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A google search of "coal company automatic weapons" could give you plenty of hits. Company goons had crew served, subguns, grenades, etc. Pretty much anything in the US Army standard, a lot of companies had as well. Had to. Unions were not infrequently violent and destructive terrorists, and more than a few companies were complete and utter scumbags that played every trick in the book to shortchange their workers.
Interesting stuff. My grandfather was a mine sup. back in the 1930's and 40's in the otherwise peaceful UP of Michigan. He told me about car bombings and some pretty other violent stuff. It was pretty crazy back then.
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My grandfather was a mine sup. back in the 1930's and 40's in the otherwise peaceful UP of Michigan.
A bit of thread drift. My grandfather was a copper miner in the UP in the 20's, 30's and into the 40's. He worked at the Quincy mine.
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I grew up in Houghton, so I am familiar with that mine. My grandfather managed one of the iron mines for Cleveland Cliffs.
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I have two AR15 lowers gathering dust. I think I might build one of them up this year.
Currently I have two shotguns cruiser-ready with 6 rounds of 000 Buck each & more on-board 000 & slugs or handy. Toss in another 9 rounds of .44mag in my wife's 92 lever gun. That's it for at-hand long gun firepower.
I do think such a mob would likely disperse before I had to resort to hand guns, but a high capacity long arm or two would give me some comfort.
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If an angry mob enters my house, I will definitely be provoked into a "bad act".
This.
If I call the local LEOs and they don;t get them off my property, the same thing is likely to occur.
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Outside the house a flame thrower would be a damn sight better for crowd control than a belt fed. A lot cheaper and easier to obtain too. This does make me want to get and convert that Saiga I've been planning on a lot sooner.
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http://www.amazon.com/Red-Dragon-RT-2-20-Roofing/dp/B002FCLHWQ
it will light fresh cut wood on fire from more than three feet away. should part a crowd like moses did the red sea
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What a bunch of amateurs. You just let them see you with a cell phone, or RC plane remote, or whatever, and let 'em know the house is wired to blow.
That simple.
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Outside the house a flame thrower would be a damn sight better for crowd control than a belt fed. A lot cheaper and easier to obtain too. This does make me want to get and convert that Saiga I've been planning on a lot sooner.
Amusingly, a flamethrower, despite shooting fire, is not considered a firearm. :lol:
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Amusingly, a flamethrower, despite shooting fire, is not considered a firearm. :lol:
What is it then? Pest control device? >:D
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What is it then? Pest control device? >:D
Agricultural tool if I recall correctly. Think field and weed burning,. Some states have laws pertaining to such devices so YMMV.
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Hmmm... last time I did any research on self defense laws, the important part was "imminent danger of death or severe bodily injury"
Somehow, I think an angry mob pushing at the doors/windows of my home would qualify. Especially if, by some chance, one of those aforementioned doors/windows actually started to open...
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http://www.amazon.com/Red-Dragon-RT-2-20-Roofing/dp/B002FCLHWQ
it will light fresh cut wood on fire from more than three feet away. should part a crowd like moses did the red sea
My father tells me that he spent some time as a central heating boilerman in Leningrad. Now, boilermen worked in the basements of appartment buildings, and because gas boilers were used, they had to do very little actual work - just sit there and wat the boiler.
For some strange reason, my father tells me they were issued a torch about like the one you linked - just a longer tube that made a small, but very visible flame on one end. He explained - but I do not remember - the purpose of this contraption.
And so what happened was that one day, a group of thug-like young people knocked on the boiler room door and demanded my father open the door and give them cigarettes.
The door opens slightly, and an angry-looking dude with a huge black moustache appears, holding a torch in one hand, the flame turned up.
"Good day," my father asks, "How may I help you?"
Thug: "Uh... nevermind. Nevermind."
At which point they parted happily.
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Outside the house a flame thrower would be a damn sight better for crowd control than a belt fed. A lot cheaper and easier to obtain too. This does make me want to get and convert that Saiga I've been planning on a lot sooner.
I had no idea that you could even convert a Saiga into a flamethrower :O
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My father tells me that he spent some time as a central heating boilerman in Leningrad. Now, boilermen worked in the basements of appartment buildings, and because gas boilers were used, they had to do very little actual work - just sit there and wat the boiler.
For some strange reason, my father tells me they were issued a torch about like the one you linked - just a longer tube that made a small, but very visible flame on one end. He explained - but I do not remember - the purpose of this contraption.
And so what happened was that one day, a group of thug-like young people knocked on the boiler room door and demanded my father open the door and give them cigarettes.
The door opens slightly, and an angry-looking dude with a huge black moustache appears, holding a torch in one hand, the flame turned up.
"Good day," my father asks, "How may I help you?"
Thug: "Uh... nevermind. Nevermind."
At which point they parted happily.
the torch i have is adjustable the "pilot" light is small pull the trigger and it roars shoots flame out in a swirling instant gout i love it for burning leaves and starting brush/slash piles
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I wonder how long a union person would stand by his fellow union member after that union member took a load of buckshot to the chest. I bet they would run screaming like little girls.......a union back in the 30s would be alot different.......You don't see that union BS here in Texas.......you can protect your property here.....chris3
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This isn't going to be settled on anybody's front lawn or backdoor. It's going to be settled where the spark of intimidation was first lit. The SEIU are just messengers.
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http://www.amazon.com/Red-Dragon-RT-2-20-Roofing/dp/B002FCLHWQ
it will light fresh cut wood on fire from more than three feet away. should part a crowd like moses did the red sea
Oooo.... Daddy like. I bet I can make a backpack for the fuel tank. Thanks, C&SD! I've been looking over flamethrowers and haven't found I liked until that one.
I don't understand why the Army doesn't keep a few industrial sized flamethrowers around for perimeter guard. Set a line of fire in front of an angry mob, they're not gonna cross it.
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you can get em with side by side heads for twice the fun. my single needs a new hose after 7 years outside and i got it for 99 bucks with the contractors discount the only thing lacking is you should get one of those long lighters to fire it up. or rig an igniter system. i just drop a burning match on the ground and point the burner at it till it fires. you can burn critters outa burrows with it too
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A mob that size is not stopped, even my a belt-fed M60 or M2, with a front door serving as a choke point.
You can't stop a mob that size.
If it truly boils down to gunplay, the only thing that can potentially save your bacon is pulling a Wyatt Earp. Find the biggest bully in the lot that is one of the ringleaders. Talk to him directly and tell him they may get you in a rush, but not until you turn his head into a canoe. Then point to another ringleader, and say: you, too. And another.
Put 3-4 men on direct notice that they will warrant the loving caress of your front sight, regardless of having 50, 100 or 500 thugs with them... and hope they back off.
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Even if you had one of these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun =D
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a mob that size is completely unpredictable and infinitely dangerous
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I'm pretty sure nobody thinks that any scenario where something like this escalates to gunplay is going to really have a winner. The only kind of winner would be SEIU with the propaganda victory at the expense of multiple lives.
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There is no good outcome for a situation of this kind. Try to die honorably and take as many of the misbegotten with you as possible. What the world makes of it will be, as always, varied and unpredictable.
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a mob that size is completely unpredictable and infinitely dangerous
This. All it takes is one person to kick in a door or throw a rock. That will cascade.
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I wonder if members of the mob weren't coached specifically not to attempt forced entry to the home?
A homeowner who opens fire on a mob for trampling his petunias will be crucified by the media - and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the orgainzers were hoping such a thing would happen - they could use it to further inflame passions.
BUT . . . a homeowner who shoots any number of home invaders will be a very poor cause célèbre for the SEIU and the Washington, D.C. police department escorting them.
As unpredictable as a mob can be, I really don't see them pressing forward a decisive attack if their leaders are being stacked up in the doorway of a home they just forced entry to; they're not troops trained to face gunfire, they're a rabble. Consider Koreatown during the Rodney King riots - the mob dispersed, going on to easier pickings, after only a few shots were fired.
Hopefully, someone with a lick of common sense will see that continuing this sort of thing will not end well.
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What if such mobs were to be... infiltrated by the opposing side for reasons of sabotage?
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the whole mob is not well coached therein lies the danger. the mob leaders are very carefully coached. i think finding out who the leaders are where they live and mounting counter demonstration might be a good idea . only stay off their property sing hims pray for them i think they will not enjoy it much
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Who doesn't think that anarchy is part of the playbook? It's only a matter of time before the friction turns sanguinary. Our enemies abroad have to be laughing at our confusion and dissension.
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A mob that size is not stopped, even my a belt-fed M60 or M2, with a front door serving as a choke point.
You can't stop a mob that size.
If it truly boils down to gunplay, the only thing that can potentially save your bacon is pulling a Wyatt Earp. Find the biggest bully in the lot that is one of the ringleaders. Talk to him directly and tell him they may get you in a rush, but not until you turn his head into a canoe. Then point to another ringleader, and say: you, too. And another.
Put 3-4 men on direct notice that they will warrant the loving caress of your front sight, regardless of having 50, 100 or 500 thugs with them... and hope they back off.
This is also a situation where penetration means a lot. One of the things I like about my .303Brit SMLE is that, with FMJ, it could punch through 2-3 people before it ran out of steam. The Empire found it rather effective for crowd control in the colonies. I'm sure 7.62x54R and .30-06 rounds could be found that do the same.
If I ever encounter a mob like this, it's Rule .303 for sure....
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rule%20303 (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rule%20303)
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the whole mob is not well coached therein lies the danger. the mob leaders are very carefully coached. i think finding out who the leaders are where they live and mounting counter demonstration might be a good idea . only stay off their property sing hims pray for them i think they will not enjoy it much
Now that's an idea: identify the leaders and "counter-demonstrate."
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Why did the popo escort them and stay on the scene? No arrests made? Fox News contrbitor Nena Easton lives next door to this guy, she asked the popo who where there why no arrests. The answer, they didn't want to incite the crowd.
Sucks to be the homeowner. He didn't have anyone to protect him. Guess the popo serves the SEIU.
Strory playing out in Fox News.
And it was the DC police.
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Turn on Fox. You'll see the popo dancing all over to CYA.
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target the union pres at his house. or raise the stakes hold a prayer vigil outside his kids school. since kids are fair game. i've got a mean streak find a union official who's kid is getting married show up at their wedding or a graduation. not the circus the union did but a nice quiet prayer vigil candles and a skypilot to lead ya as you pray for god to guide the union back to righteousness. have film crews the union thugs will show up. there probably will be injuries
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i only caught the moco cop. they are cute nowadays they pick their spokespeople carefully. the moco guy didn't impress me. what was the dc cops spin? i got the impression one tried to blame the other
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Good idea. I like it.
The interview Megyn Kelly just did with the 2 PD heads involved was just pathetic. Heads should roll at the departments involved. Sad thing is, if the home owner would have thought it necessary to defend himself, he would be in jail.
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DC cops spin was blame it on the other department. Said his dept called the other and notified of the crowd. And that only one DC cop by accident crossed over the Maryland line. And that the cops couldn't act due to the homeowner not asking them to leave.
See if you can find it in podcast. It's a real enlightening interview. So many discrepancies to mention.
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Sucks to be the homeowner. He didn't have anyone to protect him. Guess the popo serves the SEIU.
And the SCOTUS have said the police aren't obligated to protect. =|
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And the SCOTUS have said the police aren't obligated to protect
yep. And you can bet if the homeowner had felt in fear of his life ans sons life, and acted. His ass would be in jail, put there by the same police who watched the crowd and did nothing.
And this was not the only location this crowd visited.
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Why did the popo escort them and stay on the scene? No arrests made? Fox News contrbitor Nena Easton lives next door to this guy, she asked the popo who where there why no arrests. The answer, they didn't want to incite the crowd.
Sucks to be the homeowner. He didn't have anyone to protect him. Guess the popo serves the SEIU.
Strory playing out in Fox News.
And it was the DC police.
Yep, the DC police were there to protect the mob. You got it, they would jail or shoot the homeowner if he tried any resistance.
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worst thing is? this event really worked for them so expect to see it more till someone gets hurt
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worst thing is? this event really worked for them so expect to see it more till someone gets hurt
Since when has someone getting hurt stopped union thuggery?
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A counter protest using Christmas Carols or Happy Birthday over and over would probably be a lot more effective than prayer. It would make it a lot more difficult to dismiss as "the religious crazies".
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i was in on one of the first of these home invasion protests. ours was 50 folks who never made much noise and were led in prayer on the sidewalk in front of a managers house in a rich hood. the company rolled over shortly after. its ok to be religious if its a black sky pilot and a mostly black union. its white religious crazies that are bad. didn't you get the email about that?
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Since when has someone getting hurt stopped union thuggery?
When it's the Union Thug Rabble RouserTM that winds up eating a steady diet of full metal jacket from a belt-fed? (https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hellgateguru.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Finnocent%2520whistle.gif&hash=4fd1a69a20e06230b8a7a3efeef6e5cc09858d80) :angel:
Odd thought: There are laws prohibiting "weaponizing a vehicle," but is there any pertaining specifically to sandbagging your front porch and turning it into an MG nest or pillbox of sorts (not just "disturbing the peace" or "brandishing" but something that would amount to "weaponizing your house")?
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i was thinking whats black and tan and looks great on a protester?
http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/natural-science/_more2002/_more09/Rottweiler-doing-protection-training-athelete-in-motion-lowres-CF.jpg (http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/natural-science/_more2002/_more09/Rottweiler-doing-protection-training-athelete-in-motion-lowres-CF.jpg)
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Hire a few bulldozers for improving your landscaping and start the job when the SEIU shows up.
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Or maybe that indelible ink the banks put into exploding dye packets of money?
I was thinking extract of skunk. Same effects as pepper spray, with lasting results to point out how they'd been acting.
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I was thinking extract of skunk. Same effects as pepper spray, with lasting results to point out how they'd been acting.
Nominate this for the "Best Idea Yet" award. =D
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Hmm. Ode to Skunk might be difficult to get in great quantities. There's always 1,4-diaminobutane and 1,5-pentanediamine though.
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I was thinking extract of skunk. Same effects as pepper spray, with lasting results to point out how they'd been acting.
Anybody got the guts to try to train some (unmodified, of course) skunks as guard animals?
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The only thing that can stop a mob of savages outnumbering you several hundred to one is gunships, fixed defenses (landmines, claymores, etc) or a machine gun.
So, go down to Lowe's and get some punji sticks and concentina wire?
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Outside the house a flame thrower would be a damn sight better for crowd control than a belt fed. A lot cheaper and easier to obtain too. This does make me want to get and convert that Saiga I've been planning on a lot sooner.
Oleg's latest (http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/815119.html)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Folegvolk.net%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F37140-2%2Fmdarms_drum_saiga_6857.jpg&hash=c4047652d7fae3470e49702dea90518e1bf20d4c)
12x20
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There should be a Saiga 12 in my possession by tomorrow...
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Folegvolk.net%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F37140-2%2Fmdarms_drum_saiga_6857.jpg&hash=c4047652d7fae3470e49702dea90518e1bf20d4c)
With a bit more fashion sense, he wouldn't need to lug that thing around to keep people from laughing at him.
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Maybe lobbing a few Molotov cocktails on the front yard to get rid of "ragweeds"...
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THe best idea is calling the montgomery county cops cause anything off of a public sidewalk is trespassing.
We ran a counter protest in Bethesda at a MMM leaders house.
We knew the law.
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So, go down to Lowe's and get some punji sticks and concentina wire?
I guess rebar would do for the punji sticks, but I dont' think my local Lowe's sells the other stuff. Pity.
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I guess rebar would do for the punji sticks, but I dont' think my local Lowe's sells the other stuff. Pity.
Tractor Supply can provide the rest....
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Is razor wire even still sold? ???
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yes but someone on another forum suggested keeping bees on your property and working the hives if you have unwelcome company
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Is razor wire even still sold? ???
http://www.fencing-online.com/razor_wire_3_ctg.htm (http://www.fencing-online.com/razor_wire_3_ctg.htm)
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THe best idea is calling the montgomery county cops cause anything off of a public sidewalk is trespassing.
We ran a counter protest in Bethesda at a MMM leaders house.
We knew the law.
Except they did call the cops, who showed up and then did nothing.
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>Except they did call the cops, who showed up and then did nothing.<
That's easy to fix!
Protest Target: "Hello?"
911 operator: "911, what's the nature of your emergency?"
PT: "Yeah... I called about a mob outside my home. I'm at 123 S 4th st"
911: "Yes sir... officers have been dispatched, but they're afraid of doing anything to antagonize the crowd"
PT: "that's fine then. I'm barricaded in the living room with my AR, in case they decide to force entry"
Something tells me that conversation would have police responding, quickly.
Another phone call which might help a bit is to all the local broadcast media outlets.
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saw that on Glenn Beck, happened in MD ... right? they have rotten laws there.
afaik without a fence and "keep out" sign there isn't much legally ( ianal though)
seiu is getting a lot of bad press though, perhaps there needs to be a demo at their houses too. We should fight fire with fire.
I found out the hard way that a lot of eastern states have a law that says if it aint fenced and or not posted then its not really trespassing until you tell/ask them to leave.
most of us won't have to deal with a large crowd like this, but in some locales a protest march might take issue with ( say) a flag or a candidate sign, when I lived with my vile ex in SF she wouldn't let me put American flags or "vote for GW" up anywhere for that reason
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http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/05/026400.php
video of the cop brass fibbing
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its embarassing
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I'd like to get 500 people to go to Chief Blackshirt's house. Nothing but a shill for the SEIU.
The cops were told that 14 buses of protesters had entered the county, yet there were no cops to see the 500 protesters descending on the house? Get real.
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yea they hid out long enough to park and unload 14 buses do the "protest" and show up as they were peacefully leaving. and they can't bust em for disorderly conduct unless they witness it. bet if they wanted to they'd use the video to id the folks. both those cops are an embarassment
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Think maybe one union shop was talking to another...?
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i think the police brass in both areas are lacking in testosterone. both wanna tip toe through with no waves law be darned
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv635%2Fbrimic%2Feight.jpg&hash=1b5ebe1a16b0fae08806de5c17df0777db05a4f8)
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Paintball gun? >:D
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i think the police brass in both areas are lacking in testosterone. both wanna tip toe through with no waves law be darned
Police brass is seldom selected based on capability as police officers or police administrators, they are chosen, above all, for their POLITICAL suitability in the eyes of the mayor and/or city council.
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>Except they did call the cops, who showed up and then did nothing.<
That's easy to fix!
Protest Target: "Hello?"
911 operator: "911, what's the nature of your emergency?"
PT: "Yeah... I called about a mob outside my home. I'm at 123 S 4th st"
911: "Yes sir... officers have been dispatched, but they're afraid of doing anything to antagonize the crowd"
PT: "that's fine then. I'm barricaded in the living room with my AR, in case they decide to force entry"
Something tells me that conversation would have police responding, quickly.
The cops would have dispersed the crowd in order to do a forced entry on your home and remove you and your AR. You would have been considered a "greater threat".
Not that I agree with that, mind you. I don't. It's just what I believe would have happened.
At least it would have ended the protest... ;/
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Paintball gun? >:D
+ pepperballs >:D
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In all seriousness, if one decided to sit on their porch with an AR-15 and read a book while this was going on, how likely is it there would be legal repercussions?
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moco md? you are in a world of hurt
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In all seriousness, if one decided to sit on their porch with an AR-15 and read a book while this was going on, how likely is it there would be legal repercussions?
In MD!? probably you would go to jail, a friend of mine shot at nazi skinheads breaking into his house in Baltimore during the punk days of the early 80's ... they sent him to jail!