Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Seenterman on June 21, 2010, 10:32:30 AM
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Is it me or is their a rash of police / dog shootings lately? I'm starting to think that the precedent has been set where some officers think its alright to shoot a dog when ever they feel like it. Can anyone tell me why this officer felt the need to shoot the dog after he got the snare pole around the dog. Dog was under control, it just looks like the officer didn't know what he was doing, and got fed up and said the hell with. Why wasn't animal control called?
http://videosift.com/video/Lagrange-Missouri-Police-Officer-Shoots-Dog
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What do you mean by why wasn't animal control called? Who had the snare pole? I don't know any police department that issues snare poles to officers.
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Did you even watch the video? Maybe you should and then comment . . .
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That didn't look like it was done out of defense of the officer or anyone else.
Yeah, there's no context to go with this...
But the police officer had the dog on the snare pole and it was sitting, not jerking/pulling/anything. Then he drew and shot it. The dog laid down with a bullet in him (or through him, probably) and was extremely submissive, wagging his tail. Then the officer shot him again, in the head, 20-30 seconds later.
Cops aren't executioners.
Even if the dog was owned by some drunk guy they just arrested, or heck even a child molesting bank thief that cooked meth and sold it to nuns for fun, the law calls for the owner to have his day in court regarding his property (the dog).
That day in court was taken away from him. And from the dog. This dog could have easily been put into the custody of animal control.
This is a travesty, IMO.
ETA: The only possible excuse for this is if the officers came up and found the dog snacking on the entrails of a baby, or something similar.
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But then.. why bother with the snare?
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Link to a little more info.
http://www.hannibal.net/news/x1600620381/LaGrange-dog-owner-vows-to-fight-for-law-changes (http://www.hannibal.net/news/x1600620381/LaGrange-dog-owner-vows-to-fight-for-law-changes)
The story brings up a few more questions.
jim
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But then.. why bother with the snare?
Because dogs are easier to shoot when they can't move?
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
After doing some research(1), the owner seems like a loser POS and the neighbors say the dog was uncontrolled & got out & about several times, scaring the hades out of them. Hard to tell if the dog actually was vicious, given some folks' ignorance of dogs, but the fact remains that the owner was irresponsible.
As to the specific instance caught on tape, the dog only got agitated after it had been moved about a few times. There is supposed to be a longer video out there showing the dog tied up to the trailer, the cops showing up and untying it to move it to the truck bumper, where the shorter video begins.
Now, it is pretty obvious that the dog is not a threat while on the snare pole. I guess I'd wonder if shooting problem dogs before any determination is made is policy in this burg. If the dog were an active threat, by all means defense is appropriate. But, if the dog is under control and not a threat, summarily destroying a man's property flies in the face of our traditions and (I'd expect), law. That whole "due process" deal is not just for head-chopping terrorists.
http://www.whig.com/story/news/YouTube-Dog-Shooting-061710
http://www.whig.com/story/news/LaGrange-Dog-Trial
(1) "lagrange missouri police dog shoot" in google
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The linked story is long on accusations and short on evidence.
The dog's owner sounds irresponsible.
If the animal was to be put down, it wasn't the officer's place to make that determination, particularly after the dog was restrained.
I find it hard to cheer for either the dog's owner or the officers.
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Link to a little more info.
http://www.hannibal.net/news/x1600620381/LaGrange-dog-owner-vows-to-fight-for-law-changes (http://www.hannibal.net/news/x1600620381/LaGrange-dog-owner-vows-to-fight-for-law-changes)
jim
I received an antivirus warning from this site. It may be infected.
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I didn't and still don't get any warning from that site. I hope it didn't cause anyone a problem.
From reading a couple more stories I have to wonder about the fact the lady that called the police chained the dog up at her house and then fed it.
A taser jolt only works for five seconds on a dog? Does anyone have any experience with this?
I would just about bet someone higher up told them to shoot it. Some sound on the video would be great.
I don't want to defend the owner but I wonder how the city proved it was a vicious animal?
jim
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I didn't and still don't get any warning from that site. I hope it didn't cause anyone a problem.
jim
I'm not anymore. It may have been a false hit, or they were in the process of fixing it when I visited.
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I just found the full video and it makes that cop look even worse IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbQQUuvR3RM&feature=player_embedded#!
Here's my understanding of what happened, someone correct if I get something wrong.
Dog wandering around neighborhood barks at children.
Mother of children ties the dog up to her house and calls police.
(Doesn't that refute the "vicious" animal claim, so dangerous you brought him to your house by yourself!)
Police show up and PUT THE DOG ON A LEASH THEMSELVES & DARE TO PET CUJO! 2:26 - 3:00
Then as the dogs on the leash, well under control, and displaying no signs of hostility; just wandering around in front of the officers one of the officers pulls what appears to be his gun. (3:14) It may have been a Tazer.
Then the video cuts to the dog chained to a pickup truck. Why did they chain him to a pickup? He was just on a leash being walked away by the officers calmly. Now we get to see a bumbling officer chasing a tied up dog with a snare pole, which it doesn't look like he knows what he's doing.
Chase, chase chase, catch the dog with a snare pole, and then BOOM. Shoots the dog. Dog doesn't die immediately and instead is now wagging his tail. Officer the shoots dog again.
Seriously, that officer who shot the dog is a coward if a dog displaying no signs of aggression, and on a snare pole made him fear for his life. God help him if he meets a real criminal.
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Seriously, that officer who shot the dog is a coward if a dog displaying no signs of aggression, and on a snare pole made him fear for his life. God help him if he meets a real criminal.
He wasn't in fear for his life.
He was afraid the dog didn't respect his authoritay. No penalty is too extreme for those who don't respect and officer's authoritay. :'(
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I can't believe what I just saw. But there it is...
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Looks to me like the dog had a fear of big sticks. Cop is an idiot.
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Here's my understanding of what happened, someone correct if I get something wrong.
did you watch the 68 minute video? or read this?
The officers were responding to a call from LaGrange resident Mary Coleman that the dog had acted threateningly toward her and her daughter as they walked to a school bus stop.
“It was growling at my six-year-old,” Coleman testified. “I wanted my kid to be safe and myself to be safe.”
Mays pointed out that the dog could not have been too angry because Coleman chained it at her home while Howell and Powell went to get special equipment used in handling animals.
The video shows that at one point, the dog laid down on the street and remained motionless for a time.
Howell testified that the dog growled as he tried to load it into a truck, that it later broke free from a chain tied to the vehicle and eventually charged as he tried to capture it with a six-foot catchpole.
Powell described the dog as “aggressive” and “vicious.” Both officers had electroshock weapons, but did not use them because they said the effectiveness would have lasted only five second.
Howell said that he felt the only option to protect the safety of neighbors was to shoot the dog.
Howell fired one shot to the chest, which felled the animal. On the video, the dog can then be seen wagging its tail. Howell said he fired a shot to the head “because I didn’t want the dog to suffer.”
“I didn’t feel it was right how they handled that,” Mays said.
A neighbor of Mays, Frances Hamilton, testified that the animal had previously chased her husband.
Curl pointed out that Mays had pleaded guilty to animal abuse in 2007 and had been ordered not to own pets for two years. Mays argued that the circumstances did not warrant the punishment and that he had pleaded guilty only to avoid a court fight.
Cammie was just a pup when Mays got the female 18 months ago. He said the dog had never been aggressive.
Mays said he has four other dogs – three pit bulls and a mastiff. He said he did not register Cammie because doing so “slipped my mind.” The other four are registered, he said.
Howell and Powell have not been disciplined. Police Chief Dale McNelly said his department is working with the Humane Society of Missouri on additional training in dealing with unruly dogs. The city already has budgeted money for a new animal shelter.
City code defines vicious canines as “any dog(s) that has the appearance and characteristics of being predominantly aggressive” and any “dog(s) not in law enforcement service that has bitten a human being previously or attached another human being previously, whether such occurred within or without” the LaGrange city limits.
Even if his campaign to change the law in unsuccessful, Mays said the fight will be worth it.
“I don’t feel (Cammie) was vicious,” he said. “I feel I stood up for her.”
i feel bad for the dog shooting mr mays would be more apropos.
sadly the rules about stray dogs in the country running livestock, ie the 3 s's are equally appropriate in the city if a dog threatens folks especially kids. cop didn't look excited or happy and he did the right thing with the second shot. if i apply the rule of "what would i do" that dog mighta got the same treatment from me. oddly the second shot showed the right attitude. where i come from you finish off a hurt animal and the cop sure looked unhappy about doing it. also what i would be feeling.
to recap we have a moron with a history of vicious uncontrolled loose dogs who was barred from owning any for a couple years as soon as he could he repeated history and a dog got shot as a result. any dog over 50 lbs is a handful.
i like dogs have a few had a bunch but i try not to get delusional about em. been close to shooting a couple of mine that were outa hand and wouldn't hesitate to do what i think needs to be done. of course in the city you call the cops to do it for you
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did you watch the 68 minute video? or read this?
Did you watch the 68 minute video? If so please post a link so we can all see it? Yea I read that, but did you even watch the 10 minute video I posted? I think not. . .
sadly the rules about stray dogs in the country running livestock, ie the 3 s's are equally appropriate in the city if a dog threatens folks especially kids.
Umm, the dog barked a children. That's not really threatening, I've had dogs bark at me from yards, on their owners leash and :GASP: :O OFF LEASH, and yet I haven't had to shoot any dogs for simply barking. After which the woman, who's children where barked at and called the police, brought the dog to her house, tied it up, and some people are saying fed him. Would you handle a dangerous dog by yourself and bring him home with you and tie him up in your yard? I wouldn't go near an actual aggressive dog, much less try to bring him home with me.
You said you have dogs let me ask you a question; is barking an overt a sign of aggression? Do any of your dogs bark ever? If they have barked, did they then attack anyone? Bared teeth, growling, stiff tail, the "charge stance" are indicators of aggression; the dog displayed none of than leading up to the shooting. The dog was on a snare stick and standing still, with no signs of aggression when it was shot. Did you see that?
cop didn't look excited or happy and he did the right thing with the second shot. if i apply the rule of "what would i do" that dog mighta got the same treatment from me. oddly the second shot showed the right attitude. where i come from you finish off a hurt animal and the cop sure looked unhappy about doing it. also what i would be feeling.
Yea because he should never have taken the first shot, so of course the second shot wasn't warranted either but anyway, You could see the expression on the officers face in the shooting video!? We must have been watching different vids because in my video his back was toward the camera for both shots. Please post a link where we can see the cops emotional state so we can judge for ourselves ;/.
So in a "what would you do situation" you C&D have a dog restrained by a snare stick, with a good 7 feet to separate you and the dog, which is not threatening anyone, and of danger to anyone. You would shoot the restrained dog?
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You said you have dogs let me ask you a question; is barking an overt a sign of aggression? Do any of your dogs bark ever? If they have barked, did they then attack anyone? Bared teeth, growling, stiff tail, the "charge stance" are indicators of aggression; the dog displayed none of than leading up to the shooting. The dog was on a snare stick and standing still, with no signs of aggression when it was shot. Did you see that?
Seenterman: In C&SD's defense, I have to say that the dog did charge the officers even in the 10 minute video. He was chained to the back of the truck and got caught up short by his own leash, but he did charge the officers.
Of course, it was after the officers tried to catch him with the snare-pole and scared the bejeezus out of him with a 7 foot long stick.
The whole thing could have been resolved by calling the owner to deal with it... or animal control. Just reinforces my gut feeling that most cops are trained nowadays to be phalluses first and human beings second. Animal control would NOT have needed to shoot that dog. And the dog was not an immediate threat to anyone during the shooting video. And despite the cops' amateur hour presentation of how to subdue a dog with a catch pole, they got it on him and he even sat down after a few seconds of being mightily aggravated by STRANGERS CHOKING HIM.
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Just reinforces my gut feeling that most cops are trained nowadays to be phalluses first and human beings second
I assume you have an extensive video collection which actually includes most cops right? Surely you're not taking a handful of publicized incidents and applying your reaction to everyone right?
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Seenterman: In C&SD's defense, I have to say that the dog did charge the officers even in the 10 minute video. He was chained to the back of the truck and got caught up short by his own leash, but he did charge the officers.
I meant that the dog didn't display any signs of aggression immediately before the shooting. Yes the dog may have charged the officers, (I though he was running from one of them and got caught up on his chain) before the shooting, but at the time of the shooting the dog was captured, under control, and posing no threat to anyone.
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I assume you have an extensive video collection which actually includes most cops right? Surely you're not taking a handful of publicized incidents and applying your reaction to everyone right?
Just my own anecdotal experiences in my own life, in my own area, added to stuff like this.
Notice I called it my gut feeling, not an incontrovertible fact.
However, it colors how I begin any interaction with police and I admit I am sensitized to it and looking for it, now.
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It's pretty bad when the dog's the only one with some sense.
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Both cops should be suspended. The one with the snare pole, who shot the dog, should be fired. They're both screamin' idjits.
I grew up next door to a vicious dog. Vicious dogs don't bark. They might growl, but Towser didn't. He slunk ... quietly. And then he jumped anyone within range. Never made a sound.
I'm literally ill after watching that disgraceful exhibition of how NOT to handle a dog call.
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Cop shoots dog? That's not news.
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We must have been watching different vids
indeed we were one of us took the time to look for the longer version as opposed to getting sll a flutter about the video posted by the of the friend moron who had previously been barred from possessing animals . it actually has an extreme closeup of the shooters face. it wasn't hard to find either if one looked. but wheres the fun in that. its a tough call i have one dog now that is a potential bad actor though shes gotten old and its mellowed her.
in the video when the dog was trying to avoid the catch pole i noticed the collar almost coming over the ears and sure enough shortly thereafter it did come off
i guess when missing the video you missed the statements from the other neighbor that talked about the dog s behavior. i wish the vid had audio. i listen for growls. what i saw was a lot of fear aggression from that dog probably a decent dog with the bad luck to live with proven moron. unfortunately a fear bite is no less damaging than a chomp from a genuinely mean dog. the cops spent an hour trying to deal with this critter its not like they did a drive by
the most dogs i've ever had of my own is 13 though i'm licensed for 50 i've cared for up tp 85 by myself and some were a true handful when away from their mommy and daddy. and mommy and daddy were always "my dog would never do that!" then you find out you're the 5th boarding facility
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and mommy and daddy were always "my dog would never do that!" then you find out you're the 5th boarding facility
I've encountered that attitude before. I used to deliver pizzas, and I got A LOT of "Oh he's just being friendly" accompanied by laughter as dogs jumped, pawed, growled, and barked at me. Got bit once, before I carried though. That dog ended up getting smacked by a Maglite. I was 18 at the time and didn't know shiat about lawsuits or anything so nothing came of it except a ruined shirt. I've noticed the cuter the owner thinks the behavior is, the more dangerous the dog really is. And I've learned the hard way to call bullshiat any time an owner tells me their dog would NEVER do anything dangerous or disruptive. Dog owners tend to be like the parents of spoiled children: everyone else sees their bad behavior but them.
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i'm usually pretty good with dogs had to be to last at the kennel and with some of the strays and fosters. and even a small dog is a threat to children. i've also suffered very poorly the experience that dog advice is sometimes like child rearing advice the unsolicited stuff's quality and frequency is inversely proportional to the experience. and more and more i see the wrong folks with the larger aggressive dogs. so unfair to the animals since they ultimately pay for their caretakers inadequacy's. often as in this case with their life . i don't think that a stupid dog owner should be executed instead of their mutt but i would be not at all adverse to a shot to the foot for first offense and a knee for a second
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I have observed the same thing Ragnar. A small mixed breed dog got a face full of Vibram boot sole from me a last week while I was out on a walk. Its owners came up and started yelling at me for kicking their dog stating he would never hurt anyone. Silent, showing teeth, and close enough for me to kick while off leash I interpret as "I am going to bite you" in dog body language. The boot to the head changed its mind. That dog danged near got shot... If he had been bigger he would have.
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i really love my oldest dog. but off her leash her getting shot is my fault. i have lost sleep over her but i couldn't fault someone who felt they had to protect themselves. shes a lover and sleeps with my kids but riled shes a force of nature and could be dangerous. i would 't take the shooter to dinner but nor would i try to burn his house down. mostly i would feel i had failed abysmally as her caretaker. of course i'm not mr mays and any of my friends that played stupid youtube games would get a foot up theitr tail. i had to put my first dog down with a 22 and it was one of those moments where i had to be more man than i really was. but was able to for her sake
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Ahem. Cop shoots dog? That's not news.
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calling the owner to deal with it... or animal control.
the owner has a history of being worthless and not everywhere has real animal control some places the cops are it. in our area animal control is a part of the sheriffs dept
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calling the owner to deal with it... or animal control.
the owner has a history of being worthless and not everywhere has real animal control some places the cops are it. in our area animal control is a part of the sheriffs dept
What's your email address? I guess the memos aren't getting through to you. Cops are always wrong.
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Dog shoots cop. That would be news.
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Around here if a dog growls at the deputy, the deputy just runs away. ;/
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Am I the only one that thinks it's a bit irresponsible to fire a handgun while holding onto a dog via a catcher pole in a populated area? If you really can't control that dog you shouldn't be trying to shoot at it while practically attached to it. God knows where she might jerk your aim.
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Cops are always wrong.
Not always. But in this case, yes, 100% wrong.
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Not always. But in this case, yes, 100% wrong.
now thats a shocking point of view