Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Scout26 on October 22, 2010, 05:34:49 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/pilot-refuses-full-body-scan-22579959
I have a friend who's a pilot for Murecan Airlines.
He tells of when asked by the TSA drones to remove his shoes, he asked; "Why?"
Answer: "We have to make sure you won't hijack the plane." :facepalm: :facepalm:
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http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/pilot-refuses-full-body-scan-22579959
I have a friend who's a pilot for Murecan Airlines.
He tells of when asked by the TSA drones to remove his shoes, he asked; "Why?"
Answer: "We have to make sure you won't hijack the plane." :facepalm: :facepalm:
Ah, yes....the zero tolerance generation.....
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his choice his consequences
tough job market
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Ah, yes....the zero tolerance generation.....
Moar like zero intelligence.
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his choice his consequences
tough job market
Agreed. And he admitted when the story first broke that he expected to be jobless.
In spite of which, I respect him for taking a stand at last. Don't know what made him decide enough was enough, but he is drawing attention to the kabuki that is TSA/Homeland Security for commercial air.
stay safe.
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Try and fight the Feds, and you will lose every freakin' time...
Agreed. And he admitted when the story first broke that he expected to be jobless.
In spite of which, I respect him for taking a stand at last. Don't know what made him decide enough was enough, but he is drawing attention to the kabuki that is TSA/Homeland Security for commercial air.
The man literally threw away the sun. Getting to be a commercial pilot is not an inexpensive endeavour, unless you have the .mil giving you a boost (and then you are paying for it with the dedication of your life for the duration of your commitment)
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Try and fight the Feds, and you will loose every freakin' time...
The man literally threw away the sun.
I think he probably knew that :/
Whether he lost depends on how you define losing.
That Chinese dude in front of the tanks probably was very aware of how squashable he was too.
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please comparing the two goes beyond reaching
can anyone here come up with a good reason to check a pilot?
i think "straight " folks thinking is too limited.
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That Chinese dude in front of the tanks probably was very aware of how squashable he was too.
The Chinese dude lived.
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and put so much more on the line as to make the comparison laughable
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can anyone here come up with a good reason to check a pilot?
To verify he's not carrying any weapons onto the plane for a hijacker. They might have blackmailed him, have his family hostage, etc. The weapon might not be for the plane he's on, so he'll do it to keep him or his family safe and the hijackers take down another plane.
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So... wait.
Are you implying that protesting against full body scans is somehow stupid?
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To verify he's not carrying any weapons onto the plane for a hijacker. They might have blackmailed him, have his family hostage, etc. The weapon might not be for the plane he's on, so he'll do it to keep him or his family safe and the hijackers take down another plane.
yup or he could be a home grown looney
or we need to check the pilots to keep the bad guys guessing otherwise we make a guy in a pilots uniform the conduit dujour. heck so long as you have id i doubt they are checking duty rosters i could be off and haul in material. junior needs to find a new job. maybe someone can help him out.
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The Chinese dude lived.
Well he didn't get ran over by the tank at least, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
There are several conflicting stories about what happened to him after the demonstration. In a speech to the President's Club in 1999, Bruce Herschensohn—former deputy special assistant to President Richard Nixon—reported that he was executed 14 days later; other sources say he was executed by firing squad a few months after the Tiananmen Square protests.[2] In Red China Blues: My Long March from Mao to Now, Jan Wong writes that the man is still alive and is hiding in mainland China. Other commentary has also insisted that the men who pulled him out of the tanks' way were not the secret police, but rather concerned civilians.
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To verify he's not carrying any weapons onto the plane for a hijacker. They might have blackmailed him, have his family hostage, etc. The weapon might not be for the plane he's on, so he'll do it to keep him or his family safe and the hijackers take down another plane
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Let's treat everyone as a criminal first then let them prove their not. Wait, we are doing that already.
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precondition of employment don't like it? get walking? i can't figure this guy. was he not cutting it? never gonna get the other seat and is setting up for a shot at a retirement settlement? or just spent too much time on the internet and committed to a cause?
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Thought he "opted out" of a new process and that made TSA mad. So they asked him to remove his shoes, which he claims he has never had to do.
So while I agree with you on don't like it, walk away. I can't see the TSA actions being in the right here. They got pissed that he chose to opt out. And proceeded to make his day miserable. But hey. At least he didn't hijack a Plane
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precondition of employment don't like it? get walking?
Really? It was in his contract? Doubt it. Try again. Why must you try to tear the man down for standing up for his principles?
Oh, wait, because you do that to everyone.
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he opted out on full body scan they offer a pat down as alternative .he said no and took his football and went home. i used to take young managers to a sink full of water . tell em to stick their hand in then remove it. "thats the kinda hole you will leave in this organization "
was this kid raised on mars? he comes off as a fool . hes like a doctor who complains about washing his hands
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hes like a doctor who complains about washing his hands
Your analogy is, as always, inapt. And inept.
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Really? It was in his contract? Doubt it. Try again. Why must you try to tear the man down for standing up for his principles?
Oh, wait, because you do that to everyone.
does anyone have access to the types of stuff a pilot signs to work? i would guess his contract was worked over by at least 2 teams of lawyers the companies and the unions. i worked as a caterer at the general aviation side at national/reagan and we all signed stuff that specified we had to dance the security dance or get walking. trying to pretend a pilot didn't know what the deal was gonna be is amusing as was his landshark trying to call the pat down search a strip search.
if he had wanted to avoid the scan i'd not make fun of him. they give you that option. the third choice is a career change and that is his choice. hes subject to the whizz quizz randomly and physicals as well. all part of the job
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trying to pretend a pilot didn't know what the deal was gonna be is amusing
Perhaps he did know, but that's not what you claimed. You claimed it was a precondition of employment.
Wonder how long the guy's been a pilot? Think it might be longer than they've been doing body scans? So how could something that wasn't in place when he took the job possibly be a precondition of employment? Or do you think there's a clause in his contract that states that he will submit to any procedures the TSA deems necessary? That's possible, but more likely it just says "security screening." He isn't refusing to be screened.
Either way, he's standing up for his principles (and common sense) and you attack him for it. As you've done to so many others before. Perhaps it's difficult for you to understand?
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i've seen him interviewed hes not old enough to have been doing this before these security
conditions were in place . the body scans are new and they give him an opt out.
He isn't refusing to be screened.
but he is and trying to call being patted down a strip search ain't flyin either
we'll never know since its a confidential personnel matter but i'd love to know more about him. how long hes been flying how hes done on check rides etc
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I looked up the guy in the FAA database, and if he's living in Memphis, TN as alluded to by his going into Memphis Intl for 4 years without going into the body scanner, then I think I found him.
His cert information includes a Flight Instructor certification that expired in '05 and was not renewed, and a commercial cert that's date of issuance is '09 (which I'm guessing would be the date of issuance for the latest update, not when it was first issued). This would fit in with the timeline of starting work in '05 for the airline and working for the airline for 4.5 years. He's got Second in command privileges only for his type rating in an Embraer regional jet.
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precondition of employment don't like it? get walking? i can't figure this guy. was he not cutting it? never gonna get the other seat and is setting up for a shot at a retirement settlement? or just spent too much time on the internet and committed to a cause?
Oh god, not people actually having a cause.
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hes not old enough to have been doing this before these security
conditions were in place
Check your math. There's an opt-out: a pat-down. Both the scan and the pat-down are new. I'm not sure what you have against this guy, but the scan was not a condition of his employment. It is the equivalent of a DUI checkpoint that everyone employed at or doing business with a particular establishment must pass through. And everyone's car is searched. Every time.
Oh god, not people actually having a cause.
I know, that's only one step away from armed revolution!
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i don't have a thing against the guy. i am not gonna worry that much about a pilot or anyone else going through security nowadays. he has job options if this bugs him folks have transportation options. they can avail themselves. has his union declared yet?
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So, by your logic, we can be scanned/harrassed/questioned at any extent at airports, since we agree to go on planes?
Alternatively we can drive, is that right?
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any extent? no . current extent?yes or you can avail yourself of alternatives i do fly is not as easy as it once was but not near as hard as some folks seem to make it.
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any extent? no . current extent?yes or you can avail yourself of alternatives i do fly is not as easy as it once was but not near as hard as some folks seem to make it.
I guess you're used to that sort of thing by now ;) :P
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any extent? no . current extent?yes or you can avail yourself of alternatives i do fly is not as easy as it once was but not near as hard as some folks seem to make it.
And should we drive, do I assume we also have - by choosing to drive - agreed to the various police stops, roadblocks, and backscatter X-ray scans of vehicles?
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i worked as a caterer at the general aviation side at national/reagan and we all signed stuff that specified we had to dance the security dance or get walking. trying to pretend a pilot didn't know what the deal was gonna be is amusing as was his landshark trying to call the pat down search a strip search.
if he had wanted to avoid the scan i'd not make fun of him. they give you that option. the third choice is a career change and that is his choice. hes subject to the whizz quizz randomly and physicals as well. all part of the job
And....... just how many times did you, as an in-flight caterer, have to be patted down/ full body scanned in the process of doing your job?? I, too, worked for the airlines at one point. (Pre-9/11) and many of the airport personnel didn't have to go through security every time they came to work. In-flight catering went from their facilities onto the airport without EVER being screened. I've by-passed screening many times, myself. I think that whoever is making the rules for TSA has been watching too many movies. The pilot actually hijacking the plane is the least of my worries, especially in an Embraer......
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And should we drive, do I assume we also have - by choosing to drive - agreed to the various police stops, roadblocks, and backscatter X-ray scans of vehicles?
Oh, you've got choices other than flying if you don't want to be put through such measures. There's always the train for instance, oh never mind, they're starting to screen there to. Well I suppose you could take the bus. Drat, almost forgot, they're testing out a screening program that as well. Hmm. Your car? You already mentioned "sobriety and seatbelt" checkpoints and vehicle mounted x-ray devices. Looks like your only choice is either walking or biking to see your friends two states away, but be sure to stay off the interstate and certain highways where that method of travel is forbidden. Mind you that still doesn't resolve the issue of being randomly x-ray'd without consent while traveling on the public thoroughfare. I could name a few countries that included the restriction of travel in their toolbag of control over their people, and surprisingly, it wouldn't even godwin the thread.
I have a serious question on a related note. Do we have anyone here who's profession is in health care? I don't remember from the few times I've been x-ray'd at the doctors office, considering I intentionally went there to get said x-rays; is consent of the patient or guardian/legal rep required prior? I'm curious if this falls under the category of a medical procedure requiring consent, and if so, what differentiates the cops and others using drive by x-rays on people without consent.
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what differentiates the cops and others using drive by x-rays on people without consent.
They're the government, don't ya know ? ;/
What - do you want the terrists to win?
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what differentiates the cops and others using drive by x-rays on people without consent.
Some animals are more equal than others, especially those hiding under "color of law".
Remember the Patriot Act, only to be used on terrorists. Well, I dare say it's been responsible for removing child molesters, organized crime and a lot if other crimes that have nothing to do with terrorism. It's called mission creep.
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And....... just how many times did you, as an in-flight caterer, have to be patted down/ full body scanned in the process of doing your job?? I, too, worked for the airlines at one point. (Pre-9/11) and many of the airport personnel didn't have to go through security every time they came to work. In-flight catering went from their facilities onto the airport without EVER being screened. I've by-passed screening many times, myself. I think that whoever is making the rules for TSA has been watching too many movies. The pilot actually hijacking the plane is the least of my worries, especially in an Embraer......
pre 911 only had to deal with security intermittently. afterwards they got to be a pain in the tail.never been patted down but once and that was when the secret service did it. some vip's plane. we used to get screened by canine but that was funny since the food got some of the dogs excited.
heres another pilots view
http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/10/21/michael_roberts_body_scan/index.html
interestingly he mentions that usually pilots get to skip the shoe dance.