Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ron on December 01, 2010, 09:06:23 AM
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Anyone familiar with this little gem of a takeover by the feds? US Senate passes the Patriot Act for Food, S510, by a vote of 73 to 25
http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/s-510-is-hissing-in-the-grass/
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I metioned this in another thread yesterday. Couple that with WikiLeaks being a plan by Obama and his Marxist handleers to use it as an excuse to regulate the internet.
You think we'll all look good in our gray Mao clothes?
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http://hubpages.com/hub/SB-510-and-your-right-to-grow-your-own-food
Interestingly enough it seems that alot of small hippy farmers are pissed off about this.
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Ironically, right after Obama freezes Federal pay, they pass a bill that requires hiring more Federal workers.
And yeah, this one seems to be pissing off everyone from the hippy farmers to farming corporations. Ultimately everyone who eats will be pissed off when food prices skyrocket.
Also, smooth move by the Republicans who voted for this, right after an election that screamed, "Smaller government!"
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Sweet zombie baby jeebus, the Statists never give up.
What will it take for them to get it, finally?
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i would suggest reading the actual bill as amended
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i would suggest reading the actual bill as amended
I'm haven't been able to track down a copy of the bill as passed, but from what I'm finding second hand it would appear they added an exclusion for any farm that has less than half a million $ in annual sales.
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i would suggest reading the actual bill as amended
It has to be passed so we can find out what's in it >:D
You can find the text here:
http://www.loc.gov/fedsearch/metasearch/?cclquery=s510&search_button=GO#query=%28Food%20Safety%20Modernization%20Act%29&filter=pz:id=thomas (http://www.loc.gov/fedsearch/metasearch/?cclquery=s510&search_button=GO#query=%28Food%20Safety%20Modernization%20Act%29&filter=pz:id=thomas)
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Sweet zombie baby jeebus, the Statists never give up.
What will it take for them to get it, finally?
That's the one and only question.
Maybe complete collapse that they find themselves unable to manipulate, control, and exploit. They appear to believe that chaos is their friend. I think history suggests otherwise.
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Holy *expletive deleted*ck. If this is true. It might be a little closer to that time ( mentioned by Claire Wolfe)
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key words if it were true
and so sad since the link to the actual bill has been provided
and yet folks will take the time to read the website from the freefood folks
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And yet another link to the bill
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:s510es.txt.pdf (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:s510es.txt.pdf)
As a small market gardener this new law does concern me.
My operation will be affected by this but I'm not sure just how much impact there will be.
I'm not optimistic but I'm not ready to get out the pitchfork and torches yet . (but I will be making ready)
I've been tied up with settling an estate the last couple of months and haven't paid as much attention to this I should have. both my Senators voted against so I'm happy with that. Looks like this will have to go to the House as the next step so unless I'm wrong about this it can still be shut down.
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Are they purposely trying to destroy everything?
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They don't do that "purposefully" it is a natural ability .....
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we pause to interject a few facts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101130/ts_yblog_thelookout/how-the-new-food-safety-bill-might-affect-you
please return to your regularly scheduled rant
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You tried that one before; it didn't work. You need to get over the fact that this is the internet; facts don't matter.
And anyway I'm sure that no other bill the dumbocratublicans ever passed as had bad unintended consequences .... like sending jobs overseas or anything ...no; only evil >:D greedy >:D industrialists do that.
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facts don't matter.
i think mr quick summed it up well
"Why, no. I don't believe truth can be brought to people such as yourself. I doubt you'd recognize truth if your head was held tight and your nose was rubbed in it."
Byron Quick
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And so the bill is nothing but smiling wisdom and legislative brilliance?? [popcorn]
"He who made kittens put snakes in the grass." ~~ Jethro Tull
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you have read it? right?
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And you know what an UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE is..... right?
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yea. was that a yes or a no? about actually reading the bill
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I'm more worried about large, corporate mono-crop farming.
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After hearing some hysteria about this bill last week or so I went looking for the bills sponsors, expecting to find the usual suspects. Never did find who it was since I saw a shiny object before tracking that down, but I did run across the current version of the bill as noted in the link above. While I won't say I was exhaustive in my research, it looks like the more onerous provisions have been struck out leaving a bunch of feel-god provisions stating that the Secretary must report on this, that, and that other thing while making plans should terrorists with frikkin lasers on their heads do something rash. Of course there can always be crap hidden way down deep that I didn't see through my glazed-over eyes, but at that point it looked pretty well neutered.
At the same time it had a lot of "the Secretary shall determine" language and that's not what I pay my congresscritters for.
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we pause to interject a few facts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101130/ts_yblog_thelookout/how-the-new-food-safety-bill-might-affect-you
please return to your regularly scheduled rant
I believe "sweeping new powers" was one of the facts mentioned in your quoted article. Which equates to requiring a larger fed.gov workforce. Which equates to yet another straw on the back of that camel that's walking from the country of "Anything not expressly forbidden is allowed" to the country of "Anything not expressly allowed is forbidden".
I'm tired of "for my safety" being an excuse for every new piece of legislation. I hold safety a good deal lower than freedom.
...safer food makes for happier, healthy bodies -- and greater bipartisanship. Perhaps the next Slurpee Summit in Washington should feature wheatgrass smoothies.
No thank you.
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I'm more worried about large, corporate mono-crop farming.
Sorry already has happened.
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Remember how many millions of people died from communist and socialist economic programs that caused famines and food shortages?
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Hmmmm.....maybe now's the time to invest in black market food production....kinda like using all those basement marijuana setups to grow oregano.... ;)
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Remember how many millions of people died from communist and socialist economic programs that caused famines and food shortages?
Just look at Ukraine under Stalin. Formerly the most agriculturally productive region of the USSR, in 1932-33 somewhere from 6 to 7 million Ukranians starved to death.
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Another take on the bill A little outdated but good points.
http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/s510-revised-fda-coming-kennedy.htm (http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/s510-revised-fda-coming-kennedy.htm)
As to how it will affect my operation
RETAIL FOOD ESTABLISHMENT.—The Secretary shall amend the definition of the term ‘‘retail
food establishment’’ in section in 1.227(b)(11) of
title 21, Code of Federal Regulations to clarify that,
in determining the primary function of an establishment or a retail food establishment under such section, the sale of food products directly to consumersby such establishment and the sale of food directly
to consumers by such retail food establishment include—
(A) the sale of such food products or food
directly to consumers by such establishment at
a roadside stand or farmers’ market where such
stand or market is located other than where the
food was manufactured or processed;
This and what follws sounds like I will be required to be licensed as a retailer to set up at my farmer's market. If they do this it will likely shut down many small farmer's markets.
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This is nothing than control. Control the food and you control the people.
I see our two worthless Senators voted yea on this. And the Spoiled Princess wonders why we tossed her during the primaries. [barf] [ar15]
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Another take on the bill A little outdated but good points.
http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/s510-revised-fda-coming-kennedy.htm (http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/s510-revised-fda-coming-kennedy.htm)
As to how it will affect my operation
This and what follws sounds like I will be required to be licensed as a retailer to set up at my farmer's market. If they do this it will likely shut down many small farmer's markets.
This may suck for a friend and I becasue we are going to expand our bee hives and get into selling honey to pay for our hobby.
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Another take on the bill A little outdated but good points.
http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/s510-revised-fda-coming-kennedy.htm (http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/s510-revised-fda-coming-kennedy.htm)
As to how it will affect my operation
This and what follws sounds like I will be required to be licensed as a retailer to set up at my farmer's market. If they do this it will likely shut down many small farmer's markets.
actually its IS outdated the version passed will not do what you fear was a specific change
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Email from Sen. Jon Tester:
This is a good bill that strengthens our food safety while protecting the jobs and livelihoods of folks who put food on our tables.
The bill includes my amendment to protect family farmers and food producers from new federal regulations they can't afford and don't need. Under my amendment, food producers would not be subject to new federal requirements if they:
Sell the majority of their food directly to consumers within the state, or within a 275-mile radius of where it was produced, and
Have less than $500,000 per year in sales.
If I can believe what he says... ;/
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the bill is available in english press 1
you can even follow the process that one by one brought the bill in line
or read and believe the hippy version of alex jones web site
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I didn't realize Alex Jones was a hippy AND a kook.... [tinfoil] ;/
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actually its IS outdated the version passed will not do what you fear was a specific change
The quote I posted from the bill was from the bill as passed by the senate. There will be an impact on my operation from this bill. How much of an impact remains to be seen.
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what do you envision the impact being? you selling a half mill in produce?
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The way I read it the $500K exemption for small producers applies to on farm sales.
Sales at a location other than on farm are going to be treated differently.
What I expect is more federal regulatory interference in what should be a state matter.
I also expect some additional cost to me to be able to sell at a farmer's market.
I may be wrong but time will tell.
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S510 is a historic expansion of power of the Secretary of Health and Human Services, it also puts all U.S. food production under the control of the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense. It gives the feds sweeping and generalized powers. Definitions of possible food crimes and enumeration of specific powers will be hammered out AFTER the bill is passed.
It is has the full support of big ag.
Those who support big centralized government solutions to every problem seem to support this bill.
Those who support state and local solutions seem to oppose this bill.
I've seen reports that it will cost 800 million the first year and up to 1.4 billion over the next four to implement this bill if it becomes law.
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any links to those reports? so far most all the "zomg" stuff i've seen links back to one group/website
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we pause to interject a few facts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101130/ts_yblog_thelookout/how-the-new-food-safety-bill-might-affect-you
please return to your regularly scheduled rant
What facts are those? THe author has a positive opinion claiming that the bill will make food safer. Not a single provision of the bill is even quoted in the article.
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any links to those reports? so far most all the "zomg" stuff i've seen links back to one group/website
You disagree it is a historic expansion of power? Even supporters of the bill think so.
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Not a single provision of the bill is even quoted in the article.
no?
Critics of the bill, both on the left and the right, have argued that food producers will pass on the higher costs of stricter regulation to consumers, and there's a chance that could happen. However, the bill does exempt farms making less than $500,000 per year
Opponents have also suggested that the bill would basically outlaw the sale and distribution of fruits and vegetables grown in backyard gardens. This is not the case. As SB 510 is currently worded, small growers who sell their goods at food co-ops, farmer's markets, roadside stands, etc., wouldn't have to register with the FDA -- though they would still have to comply with whatever state and local food laws are in effect in their area.
maybe you can quote the parts you find onerous? please use the actual bill as passed not the zomg end of tghe world version in the nicely done video
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You disagree it is a historic expansion of power? Even supporters of the bill think so.
so thats a no to links to those reports? at least none that don't originate at food freedom?
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oops
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Remember how many millions of people died from communist and socialist economic programs that caused famines and food shortages?
Look at what's happened to Zimbabwe's agricultural sector - and the consequences to the rest of the country - in less than 10 years of politically motivated farm invasions. :'(
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Has there ever been a true free-market (as in, not subsidized to the tune of billions and not carefully planned by the state) agricultural system that supplied the abundance and quality of the American system? That is an honest question. I don't think there is an example of a private system that didn't result in booms and busts, which in agriculture means feast and famine.
If there is one sector of the economy where government control and planning rivalled Soviet economic models, it's agriculture. But now we're lamenting the "historic new powers" over food. Folks, it never was a private system in the first place.
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Has there ever been a true free-market (as in, not subsidized to the tune of billions and not carefully planned by the state) agricultural system that supplied the abundance and quality of the American system? That is an honest question.
You do not think this has something to do with technological progress?
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Has there ever been a true free-market (as in, not subsidized to the tune of billions and not carefully planned by the state) agricultural system that supplied the abundance and quality of the American system? That is an honest question.
You do not think this has something to do with technological progress?
Of course technology has something to do with it - but the funds were available for that technology in an industry that is carefully managed by the State, and agricultural technology has been subsidized as well.
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Not a single provision of the bill is even quoted in the article.
no?
Critics of the bill, both on the left and the right, have argued that food producers will pass on the higher costs of stricter regulation to consumers, and there's a chance that could happen.
A chance nearing 100%?
maybe you can quote the parts you find onerous? please use the actual bill as passed not the zomg end of tghe world version in the nicely done video
Under that bill, the government may stop, by executive order, the operation of farms whose products it finds to be of a 'reasonable' chance to cause harm to consumers, providing the farmer the recourse of restoring his 'registration' after he proves his goods are safe at a hearing with the Dept. of Agriculture. Does that make sense to you that the farmer needs to prove himself innocent?
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you mean like the egg operation that made so many folks sick?
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The bill actually states "reasonable chance". There already is a process to shut down operations that are actually known to make folks sick.
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current inspections already carry the possibility of a shutdown based on violations of code.its all based on a reasonable chance. in fact currently bigger companies are allowed to "self inspect" .
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current inspections already carry the possibility of a shutdown based on violations of code.its all based on a reasonable chance. in fact currently bigger companies are allowed to "self inspect" .
And its no wonder why they want to pass inspection by gov't workers (and its atendant costs) on to their competitors, no matter how small.
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a smaller company can "self inspect" too. its not free to do it though
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a smaller company can "self inspect" too. its not free to do it though
Restraint of trade.
Regulatory burden.
Efficiencies of scale.
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Restraint of trade.
Regulatory burden.
Efficiencies of scale.
Barriers to entry.
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Barriers to entry.
Exactly.
It also has the "benefit" of forcing smaller competitors out of business.
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Csd: you've read the whole bill, right? Every word? And you understand it all? Cause it'd be hypocritical of you to insist everyone else does, when you haven't yourself. I admire how fast you can read and comprehend dense legalese (looking up all the other codes referred to when it says "Amend Sec X to say Y" too, right?) based on how many times you don't actually, you know, present an argument just say everyone is panicking over nothing and not reading the bill.
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oh heck no. i actually started with foodfreedom
then i looked up the bill and saw hat the "zomg" parts have been struck one by one
i also rely to a great extent on summaries but try to always read several. funny how some folks summaries are colored by their agenda
my first clue as to the bs factor was headlines like "in the face of massive protests!" and "the most dangerous bill ever!" hyperbole and manure go hand and hand one often telegraphs the other.
had a guy the other night start off with "clintons only fault" right away i knew he was ownable
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what i'm also surprised no ones mentioned is another bill that provides assistance and grants to aid folks in the same areas
http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/article/20101201/NEWS01/12010315/Food-safety-bill-could-aid-Battle-Creek-institute
as well as hold foreign food to a higher standard foodfreedom over looks that
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http://www.federalgrantswire.com/food-safety-and-inspection-service-department-of-agriculture-federal-grants.html
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm186150.htm
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Looks like the food bill is dead:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/255583/perils-constitutional-ignorance-katrina-trinko
"The Perils of Constitutional Ignorance"
When it passed the Senate something 75-25, the bill contained taxes, and all tax bills must originate in the House. Oops!
The House passed the bill and the Senate attached it to the Omnibus Pork and Socialism Bill that just got whacked, yesterday.
We can only thank the Lord that some of our opponents suffer under the effects of dain bramage from their old boxing days.
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If it was worthwhile it wouldn't have to be stuffed into an omnibus bill.
Good riddance.
If anything good in the bill existed it should be stripped out of the government growth and power grab bill and submitted separately.
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not so dead unanimous consent
http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/food-safety/134447-in-sunday-evening-surprise-senate-passes-food-safety-bill-by-unanimous-consent
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The Senate unexpectedly approved food-safety legislation by voice vote Sunday evening...
Did anyone else get that tinfoil feeling at this? Since a certain fiasco some 24 years ago I've never really trusted "voice votes," especially those that occur on a day that a large portion of the voters may not be present.