Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Phyphor on January 08, 2011, 01:39:35 PM
-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html
-
Local news is reporting between 5-10 others injured as well. There are some reports that the congresswoman was shot point blank in the head. She has been med-evaced.
-
I'm going to hell for this, but right now I'm really hoping it's not someone who can be pinned on the right.
If it's an unmistakably lefty nut-job, the news cycle on this will be predictably downplayed and much, much shorter.
-
I'm going to hell for this, but right now I'm really hoping it's not someone who can be pinned on the right.
If it's an unmistakably lefty nut-job, the news cycle on this will be predictably downplayed and much, much shorter.
She's a Democrat, but one that votes with the R's on a lot of issues. (Including the recent immigration bill that has caused so much hoopla.)
-
Looks like 4 dead, 7 seriously injured at this time.
-
Giffords has discussed her gun ownership and support for gun rights [14] opposing the DC gun ban and signing an Amicus curiae brief with the US Supreme Court to support overturing it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Giffords
-
:facepalm:
-
My entire paycheck on its a left-tard. If it were someone that could be loosely connected to the right or tea party, we would already be hearing about it.
Either way. The gun grabbers are going to use this for a long time, and the Obamanator will use is as traction under "protect our elected reps" to test to waters for restrictions or bans on firearms.
CNN is reporting that she has died.
-
Dang. That is truely sad. :'(
-
I just want to put my plug in that this thread remain respectful and polite. People have died. I just looked at comment posts at both the Huffington Post and Fox, and I don't want to see comments here get anywhere close to the disgusting comments I was reading on those sites.
-
I just want to put my plug in that this thread remain respectful and polite. People have died. I just looked at comment posts at both the Huffington Post and Fox, and I don't want to see comments here get anywhere close to the disgusting comments I was reading on those sites.
Very much in agreement here. Thanks for the lead.
DD
-
Given that the shooter unloaded on the whole crowd I'd not be surprised to learn this was gang-related, and that the Congresswoman was simply "collateral damage."
-
my guess would be garden variety nut there are many out there
-
My entire paycheck on its a left-tard. If it were someone that could be loosely connected to the right or tea party, we would already be hearing about it.
And why is that?
Looking at the Wiki link she's pro-gun and immigration reform, but she's also pro-choice, voted for increased federal funding for embryo reseach.
And there is this:
Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin is targeting 20 House Democrats who voted for the nation's new health care law and who represent districts that Sen. John McCain carried in the 2008 presidential election.
In a website launched on Thursday, the six-month anniversary of the health care law, Palin puts a bull's-eye on 20 House districts under a headline that reads, "We've diagnosed the problem…Help us prescribe the solution."
Included among Palin's Democratic targets: North Dakota's at-large Rep. Earl Pomeroy, Southeast Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and Virginia Rep. Tom Perriello.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2010/09/palin-targets-health-care-law-supporters-on-site/1
But I'm not jumping to any wild conclusions
-
Yep, the folks at the Huf Post are all but saying its political, and pointing towards right wing. Reports that suspect is mid 20's, white.
Our new Speaker issued this statement:
Speaker of the House John Boehner issued the following statement about today's shooting:
“I am horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff. An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society. Our prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, all who were injured, and their families. This is a sad day for our country."
-
Looking at the Wiki link she's pro-gun and immigration reform
Thats why.
of course, I could be wrong. I just remember the enviroweenie that went rambo at the Discovery channel, remember, we didnt hear that much about it once it was reported.
-
Giffords was enviro-weenie enough to have picked up an endorsement from the Sierra Club, so I'd suggest all options are open right now.
-
Giffords was enviro-weenie enough to have picked up an endorsement from the Sierra Club, so I'd suggest all options are open right now.
Wasnt suggesting Giffords was an enviroweenie. I was trying relate that if we have a lack of reporting on the shooter, it just might mean its not news worthy because it wasnt a right wing fringe nut job. Sorry I confused you
-
Wasn't confused, was just running with the term enviro-weenie as her alternative energy views are another potential motive. Whoever did this, you're going to hear a lot about them and their motive.
-
I sure hope we hear about who did it and why. It's a sad day. My prayers go out to all that have been touched by this.
I just dont trust the news. Sure we will hear something, how in depth the reporting is another matter.
-
Wasn't confused, was just running with the term enviro-weenie as her alternative energy views are another potential motive. Whoever did this, you're going to hear a lot about them and their motive.
Iain:
Only if the perpetrator is on the right or can be painted so. If they are from the left, it will be dropped relatively quickly.
-
http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a448/wildbill56/sarah-palin-giffords-map.jpg
this ad is gonna come up
-
Yessss, a congresswoman has apparently been pretty much executed by a man walked up to her. This is the biggest news story since the BP spill, but don't let that get in the way of a good bit of paranoia.
-
http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a448/wildbill56/sarah-palin-giffords-map.jpg
this ad is gonna come up
Sure. And?
-
Yessss, a congresswoman has apparently been pretty much executed by a man walked up to her. This is the biggest news story since the BP spill, but don't let that get in the way of a good bit of paranoia.
It isn't paranoia when it actually happens.
Heck, it doesn;t have to even be a right-winger to be so labeled. They fellow who shot the muslim cabdriver was called a TEA partier & right winger until it was determined he was a lefty nutjob. Then, it was dropped PDQ.
-
Heck, it doesn;t have to even be a right-winger to be so labeled. They fellow who shot the muslim cabdriver was called a TEA partier & right winger until it was determined he was a lefty nutjob. Then, it was dropped PDQ.
Damn right. Just like the Discovery Channel nut job was dropped. Or the muslim shooter at the Little Rock MEPS station. I dont trust the media to tell me the truth. Is this a big story, sure. But unless the media can tie a right winger/Tea partier/Militia member to it. You won't hear much about it in the days to come. That's not Paranoia. That's fact.
-
The truth - in the real world is that all ideologies have a violent fringe.
But the left is invested, intellectually and emotionally, in the idea that it is only the right that has a violent fringe, because right-wing ideologies - libertarianism, conservatism - etc. are inherently violent in a way the Left is supposedly not. They replay right-wing shooters over and over not - or not just - due to a deliberate plan to shout down their enemies, but because this confirms their world-view. Conversely, they downplay left-wing shooters because in their world-view these are just cases of 'lone fringe maniacs' that don't mean anything - which they don't.
-
We should also note that a sitting Federal Judge, appointed in 1991, was also shot and died. The Chief Judge of the Arizona Federal bench: Judge John Roll. My prayers for all those who were the victim of this senseless attack.
-
shooter was a nut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&feature=youtu.be not a lefty could be construed as many things
-
The congresswoman is still alive and has pulled through surgery. Doctors are optimistic about survival. There is alot of misinformation out there right now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422_2.html?hpid=topnews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422_2.html?hpid=topnews)
The Pima County Sheriff's office said that five others including a nine-year-old child had died, and a total of 18 people were injured.
NPR reported that Giffords was talking to a couple outside of a local Safeway when the suspect ran up and fired indiscriminately from about four feet away. The man, described by witnesses as in his late teens or early 20s, was tackled when he tried to flee the scene. Police confirmed that a young man was in custody in connection with the shooting.
-
That was a very grainy YouTube video.
-
I watched that youtube video.. he lost me. Something about being pissed at the gov't for controlling language and that the dollar is not gold backed. I'd need to watch it several more times to try to get where he is coming from but I simply don't have the patience for it.
Kudos to the staffer that tackled him when he tried to run though!
-
"We do not yet have all the answers," he said. What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society."
I may be cynical, but that read to me like, "We know one answer is to ban handguns. We must maintain a free society by sacrificing freedoms I consider unnecessary, without any evidence that that sacrifice will make a positive difference either for individuals or in aggregate."
Is there any doubt that that's where his thought process is going?
I submit that "for a free society" is newspeak for "for the children."
-
But will they come after gun ownership, restricting or banning same? Boehner statement, IMO, was more telling. Reminded me of the "some animals are more equal" quote.
This was a senseless act. The elected critters are making it out that because one of them was hurt that this is senseless. In my world, when anyone is hurt or killed by an act such as this, it's senseless, doesn't matter what the victims "station" is.
-
he seems like a total loser crazy freak, dollars to donuts people who know him will say "we knew he was kind of off but we didn't think he was dangerous"
Some of his favorite books include Mein Kampf & Communist Manifesto which to me says lefty but folks will say right winger due to the Hitler book even though fascism is a derivative of socialism
-
Check out www.hillbuzz.org
Seriously, there are some... questionable... things going on...
-
thanks Strings-some good info there, it seems daily kos said "Gifford is dead to me" a couple of days ago due to her voting conservative, no doubt this will not be mentioned tonight on main stream news.
-
he seems like a total loser crazy freak, dollars to donuts people who know him will say "we knew he was kind of off but we didn't think he was dangerous"
Some of his favorite books include Mein Kampf & Communist Manifesto which to me says lefty but folks will say right winger due to the Hitler book even though fascism is a derivative of socialism
http://wireupdate.com/wires/13960/jared-lee-loughner-reportedly-met-with-congresswoman-giffords-before-tragic-shooting/
-
This could be bad...
Probably not.
The current Congress was elected on a platform of reduced government meddling. Its structure is inherently at odds with what the probable goals of pro-Authoritarians in the Senate and the Executive Office. And the pro-Authoritarians in the Senate were spanked hard and reduced in number.
The methods chosen by the House will be inherently different than those preferred by the Executive Branch or the Senate. Legislative solutions will not be forthcoming, IMO.
Executive Orders may wind up being a result, but those can't really go very far without running afoul of statutory limitations or Constitutional ones. My guess is more shenanigans during the NICS test (which doesn't apply to this situation since the shooter had a gun and was sub-21).
The government MAY use this during arguments for James D'Cruz's case.
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/why-cant-18-year-olds-buy-a-handgun
Aside from that... the House would be eaten alive for establishing more security theater or impediments to law abiding people to exercising their God-given right to be left alone from their government. They don't want to face that.
-
A high school friend of his, Caitie Parker, says he's a lefty when it comes to politics. Pothead, high school dropout, 2012 fanatic.
He met with Gifford in 2007, and went out of his way to do so. Says to me, at least, that he's politically closer to the left than the right.
http://wireupdate.com/wires/13960/jared-lee-loughner-reportedly-met-with-congresswoman-giffords-before-tragic-shooting/
-
Well the shooter definately falls into the 'oxygen waster' category even before the shooting...
-
Quoting from a predominately liberal site... "I have to wonder...is this the actions of a radical tea bagger? or one lone nutball?"
"Stay classy, 2nd-Amendment-Solution people."
"*derogatory term deleted*?
Random nutjob?
Mexican drug cartel?"
"might just be one local loony who decided this was the day to go on a murder spree.
"but....I gotta wonder if the baggers were involved somehow."
"Just another terrorist attempt by the Republicans/*derogatory term deleted* whatever the fark they call themselves so they can weasel out of responsibility yet again."
-
^^ Sounds like real winners there. [barf]
-
shooter was a nut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&feature=youtu.be not a lefty
Time is cubed!
csdaddythatisareallypoorjudgmentcallifyouareonlygoingononemeaninglessvideoyoucanttellhispoliticalorientation
-
Any new info? I'm tired of reading poor reporting on this. From reports by police that shooter used a glock with an "extended clip" to he used an automatic weapon.
This oxygen thief was disturbed. From what I have read, it would be hard to label him far left or far right. Seems he was just an idiot that was bat *expletive deleted*it crazy.
-
This AP story attempts to connect this violent act with the rhetoric against the health care law.
This has to be one of the worst pieces of so called journalism I've read in a while.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110109/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot
-
Thanks in part to the media and their desire to prolong the culture war and paint everything in that light, there has been a rush on both "sides" of the political fence to pin this guy as a lefty wackjob or a righty wackjob.
At this point it sounds like he was primarily an insane wackjob with a tenuous hold on reality.
-
Thanks in part to the media and their desire to prolong the culture war and paint everything in that light, there has been a rush on both "sides" of the political fence to pin this guy as a lefty wackjob or a righty wackjob.
You win the innernetz for today, though it is a sad innernetz.
He's really neither lefty nor righty, until some group reaches out and actually claims him and approves of him and his actions.
-
Time is cubed!
Indeed.
So far, various friends have suggested on fb that people need to be protected from conservatives and that "tea-baggers" need to be reminded not to randomly shoot large numbers of people in the head. :facepalm:
-
And the sad truth is that the Left in America has been much more violent historically.
Union violence, the Weathermen, the SLA, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Mainly it's variations on the Robin Hood, wealth distribution, "we help people" meme, which leads them down the dangerous road of "ends justify the means" thinking.
-
This AP story attempts to connect this violent act with the rhetoric against the health care law.
First it was the Times Square Bomber who was angry about the health care law (and probably a "Tea Bagger") and now this. I've never seen one law drive so many to kill. ;/
-
First it was the Times Square Bomber who was angry about the health care law (and probably a "Tea Bagger") and now this. I've never seen one law drive so many to kill. ;/
Which is ironic, because many on the left are angry at her because she was seen as one of the key Democrats who were against the single payer option.
Daily Kos posted a blog about how "she's dead to us" just two days ago.
Further digging seems to indicate he was angry at her for not being lefty enough. Which would be typical. However there's enough nutbaggery in his postings and YouTube vids that the MSM will be able to try and spin him however they like.
If it's true he was a volunteer in her last campaign, and the blog postings he made being angry over her betrayal of a single-payer option, that will be hard to spin or refute though.
-
Geraldo on Fox is also trying to point to anger at the obamacare law.
[barf] [barf] [barf]
I was only able to watch a few minutes of it, he had on that hate monger Sharpton-who's own violent rhetoric caused one of his nut job followers to kill.
-
Well, it might actually be over Obamacare, but the other way, for not being extreme enough.
-
Austrian media is talking about a complice to the shooter who
was seen on site:
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told the press that the authorities were looking for a possible
complice in his fifties who came to the scene of the crime with the shooter without firing any shots himself.
Wie der zuständige Sheriff Clarence Dupnik mitteilte, suchen die Behörden nach einem möglichen Komplizen "in den Fünfzigern", der mit dem Schützen zum Tatort gekommen sei, aber keine Schüsse abgegeben habe.
A nine year old girl, omg.
-
Well, it might actually be over Obamacare, but the other way, for not being extreme enough.
How does that figure? The guy is repeating the "fiat currency is a scam" line, that almost certainly tags him as on the right.
This is one of those times when we'll all learn the value of not playing the guilt-by-association game; it gets done to religions, to leftists, and now it will play out with the right like it did with McVeigh.
-
How does that figure? The guy is repeating the "fiat currency is a scam" line,
So did the Communist Party of Russia in its 2008 campaign, when it attacked United Russia over inflation issues. Doesn't make them right-wing.
-
So did the Communist Party of Russia in its 2008 campaign, when it attacked United Russia over inflation issues. Doesn't make them right-wing.
It almost certainly connotes right-wing politics in the United Sates, where this looney resides.
-
Like the Nazi's - he's the other sides responsibility.
A blog I occasionally read has posted up a list of his favourite books from what is supposed to be his Myspace account:
Books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland,
Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan,
To Kill A Mockingbird,
We The Living,
Phantom Toll Booth,
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest,
Pulp,
Through The Looking Glass,
The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha,
The Old Man And The Sea,
Gulliver's Travels,
Mein Kampf,
The Republic, and Meno."
followed by:
Of course, a number of these books are classics beloved by millions. What does the list tell us, if anything? I have heard that his postings on YouTube were consistent with those of a mentally ill individual (I have not seen them.)
What do you think?
One of the first responses:
I think the list will mean whatever the person looking at it wants it to mean.
So very true.
If those are his videos, it matters little what his political views were, I'd suspect the single motivating factor was paranoid mental illness.
-
It almost certainly connotes right-wing politics in the United Sates, where this looney resides.
Not really, several of my more liberal acquaintances have jumped on that crazy. The left spin is that it's the rich folks and banks controling the fiat money and holding them down. Fiat money=scam goes both ways now.
-
If those are his videos, it matters little what his political views were, I'd suspect the single motivating factor was paranoid mental illness.
How old are those videos again? They're so completely over the top that they almost look like a smokescreen intended to lay the blame on (a raving liberal's impression of) the Tea Party conspiracy theorists. My guess is that he wasn't planning to survive this plot, and decided to try to make conservatives look bad while taking out the not-liberal-enough politician that he was mad at.
-
How old are those videos again? They're so completely over the top that they almost look like a smokescreen intended to lay the blame on (a raving liberal's impression of) the Tea Party conspiracy theorists. My guess is that he wasn't planning to survive this plot, and decided to try to make conservatives look bad while taking out the not-liberal-enough politician that he was mad at.
Seriously? A paranoid liberal's plot to frame the tea party is behind this? Seems to me an extreme reach.
It's more likely that he was a nutter who latched on to tea party memes, and ran with them. As happens to any movement - nuts latch on and run. Anti-abortion activism, religions, etc.
-
Well, the circus of crazy is nearly complete. I have seen reports that Fred Phelps is coming to Arizona to picket at the funeral of the 9-year-old girl that was killed yesterday. :facepalm:
-
Seriously? A paranoid liberal's plot to frame the tea party is behind this? Seems to me an extreme reach.
A guy known as a leftist to his former classmates suddenly starts making videos as the liberals' caricature of the tinfoil-hatted Ron Paul disciple just a month before he commits a terrorist act and you don't think there could be a hidden motive behind his sudden change of heart?
It's more likely that he was a nutter who latched on to tea party memes, and ran with them.
If he was really that far out in la-la land, there would be dozens of people lined up to tell us how crazy he's acted for years. Talk about an easy 15 minutes of fame; just give your story about the local looney ranting on a streetcorner or whatever.
-
Disgusting that this Catie Parker chick is being the tail to the killer's dog to get her 15 minutes of fame.
Saw this clown's videos, and I am pleased that they make no sense to me, as he is cracked.
Prayers for the injured and those killed.
-
Seriously? A paranoid liberal's plot to frame the tea party is behind this? Seems to me an extreme reach.It's more likely that he was a nutter who latched on to tea party memes, and ran with them. As happens to any movement - nuts latch on and run. Anti-abortion activism, religions, etc.
Not nearly as extreme of a reach as gunning down a dozen innocent people. I think in the end we're going to find out he's actually crazier than most of us think.
Assigning morals and values to someone who had fallen so far as to gun down so many innocent people is fallacy. He is *expletive deleted*ing nuts.
-
Please tell me where the videos are that make him look right-wing. ???
-
Please tell me where the videos are that make him look right-wing. ???
The left is desperately scrambling to do damage control and using the "fiat currency" line, rather than realizing what the right knew long ago: Some people are just beyond being part of civilized society, and no amount of gun control would ever stop them from committing acts of violence.
-
The left is desperately scrambling to do damage control and using the "fiat currency" line, rather than realizing what the right knew long ago: Some people are just beyond being part of civilized society, and no amount of gun control would ever stop them from committing acts of violence.
I'm agreeing with you here - but also noting that the left has no monopoly on doing this with crazies. It gets done to Muslims, Leftists, Anti-abortion activists, and Christians whenever a loon takes up their banner, even when the loon is obviously, well, looney, like this guy was.
-
The whole flap about using targets is disingenuous to say the least. It is not an uncommon practice to use war metaphors and imagery in politics or the corporate world.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi16.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb38%2F45Ron%2FDemTarget.jpg&hash=aa4270b54ddd4035a47f18f4723ce2746ee8b999)
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci....bid=171 (http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171)
From the DNC website during the Bush years no less.
Those blaming the right, the tea party etc. are pathetic IMHO.
This guy didn't need any motivation other than that he was unhinged from reality.
-
How old are those videos again? They're so completely over the top that they almost look like a smokescreen intended to lay the blame on (a raving liberal's impression of) the Tea Party conspiracy theorists. My guess is that he wasn't planning to survive this plot, and decided to try to make conservatives look bad while taking out the not-liberal-enough politician that he was mad at.
What videos?
-
Journalists urged caution after Ft. Hood, now race to blame Palin after Arizona shootings
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte
"...public officials, journalists, and commentators were quick to caution that the public should not "jump to conclusions" about Hasan's motive. CNN, in particular, became a forum for repeated warnings that the subject should be discussed with particular care...
...Fast forward a little more than a year, to January 8, 2011....the network that had shown such caution in discussing the Ft. Hood shootings openly discussed the possibility that Loughner was inspired to violence by…Sarah Palin."
-
Does anyone remember the media trying to pigeonhole Charles Whitman as a Democrat, Republican, or member of the Boy Scouts (a major terror group, to be sure)?
This pin-the-tail-on-a-party game is ridiculous, and I would think below the members of this forum.
-
He was a Lefty, or at least was before he took a look at his mental map and made a turn for "due magnetic WTF". He claims in a blog that he volunteered for Gifford's campaign, and felt betrayed she did not vote for a single-payer version of Obamacare.
If NPR is leading with "vitriol" as the root cause, they're now backing up to try and lay it at the Tea Party's feet by proxy.
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona
When the official line starts being "he was just crazy" and the "political climate" just set him off, that's American MSM code for he was nominally more Left than Right, and they're downplaying it. And trying to imply, "See what happens when the Right dares to stand up and oppose the Left?"
If you're one of our European members who doesn't quite completely get how biased the Mainstream American Media is, it probably seems a bit tin-foilish. Trust me, it's true though. Fox news is considered a "Right Wing mouthpiece" because their reporting is actually neutral and centrist if anything. And the rest of them are so used to a nominal-Left bias in the media, they react with shock to it. Fox does have a majority of right-wing punditry, but they do a better job than the other networks of keeping it separate from the actual hard-news programming. The other networks are content to let it blur quite a bit.
Does anyone remember the media trying to pigeonhole Charles Whitman as a Democrat, Republican, or member of the Boy Scouts (a major terror group, to be sure)?
This pin-the-tail-on-a-party game is ridiculous, and I would think below the members of this forum.
That's well and good, but I think we both know who started that game. And the consequences can be quite real.
I think we'd all be content to shake our heads and say "What a nut" and leave it at that, if the Mainstream Media wasn't immediately pumping out conjecture laying the shooting at the feet of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party.
-
As long as the leftwing media continues to color stories, either in a Dan Rather fashion or okay fast and loose with the facts, incidents like this will only get worse.
-
Dude was a nutjob. Yea, the left controlled media will spin it, big surprise there.
-
Wait for it.....DHS and the Southern Poverty Law Center has spoken..
New details emerging about the suspected shooter behind Saturday's deadly rampage reveal a 22-year-old man with a troubled past who law enforcement say may have been influenced by American Renaissance, a pro-white publication.
An internal Department of Homeland Security memo obtained by Fox News suggests that alleged gunman Jared Loughner -- accused of killing six people, shooting Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and wounding 12 others -- may have ties to the American Renaissance group, though it's unclear if he was directly affiliated with the publication or group.
Link:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/
-
What videos?
Jared Loughner has a youtube page with weird vids, they look like the vids of a completely bonkers jerk.
-
I was listening to the doctors report a while ago. They said it looked like he shot her in the back of the head. Bullet passed through the left lobe only which is pretty much why she's still alive. Brain swelling is the issue now and they have removed the left part of her skull to allow the swelling to occur without further damage. All I can say is the poor woman. The other dead besides the judge and her assistant are the little girl and three people well into their 70's, two women for sure, I wasn't sure of the gender of one of the names given.
-
Jared Loughner has a youtube page with weird vids, they look like the vids of a completely bonkers jerk.
OK. I have now watched several of those videos. If someone tends to think that bonkers is a characteristic of the "right wing," then Loughner would definitely seem right-wing. Otherwise, the viewer would just find him to be a nut with no political affiliation at all. Perhaps it's hard to be left OR right when you're as cracked as he seems to be. That would explain working to elect a politician and then shooting her in the grape.
-
You know, if all of us Right Wingnut T-Bagger Wookie Paul Gun Klingers were so murderous, wouldn't we have wiped out a lot of politicians already...? ;/
-
Touchy, feely America, coming soon. (I'd wager that talk of the Fairness Doctrine is gaining ground)
"I think the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business and what (we) see on TV and how our youngsters are being raised, that this has not become the nice United States of America that most of us grew up in. And I think it's time that we do the soul-searching," the sheriff said.
On Sunday, Dupnik didn't back down.
"I think we're the tombstone of the United States of America," Dupnik said of The Granite State, which a day earlier he called the "Mecca" of hatred and bigotry. "To try to inflame the public on a daily basis 24 hours a day, seven days a week has impact on people, especially who are unbalanced personalities to begin with."
Link:
http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=23888&content=46821599&pageNum=-1
A great quote from that article:
Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., agreed that it's reckless to impute the motives of the shooter to any particular group of Americans who have their own political beliefs.
"What we know about this individual, for example, is that he was reading Karl Marx and reading Hitler ... That's not the profile of a typical Tea Party member and that's the inference that's being made," Alexander told CNN's "State of the Union."
-
You know, if all of us Right Wingnut T-Bagger Wookie Paul Gun Klingers were so murderous, wouldn't we have wiped out a lot of politicians already...? ;/
yup. The reason the left thinks we are so murderous is that they really are, which is why they are so into gun control-they can not control themselves and think no one else can either.
-
Touchy, feely America, coming soon. (I'd wager that talk of the Fairness Doctrine is gaining ground)
"I think the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business and what (we) see on TV and how our youngsters are being raised, that this has not become the nice United States of America that most of us grew up in. And I think it's time that we do the soul-searching," the sheriff said.
On Sunday, Dupnik didn't back down.
"I think we're the tombstone of the United States of America," Dupnik said of The Granite State, which a day earlier he called the "Mecca" of hatred and bigotry. "To try to inflame the public on a daily basis 24 hours a day, seven days a week has impact on people, especially who are unbalanced personalities to begin with."
Link:
http://politics.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=23888&content=46821599&pageNum=-1
He's right. Remember Dem. Senator Claire McCaskill telling us to be angry at the rich for asking for a tax cut? Remember the pleas for Obama to show some anger at BP? Hmmm.
Oh, never mind. That was good anger.
-
Oh, never mind. That was good anger.
Our "Two Minutes Hate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate)"
-
according to open carry web forum, the shooter was stopped by an armed citizen who decided not to shoot the attacker
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?85094-Rep.-Gabrielle-Giffords-Shot&p=1439091#post1439091
-
it appears to be true
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/08/exp.az.zamudio.witness.cnn?hpt=T1
Joe Zammudio, an armed citizen ran towards the gunfire, saw that the shooters gun was empty and the slide locked back and assisted holding him down!
-
Maybe that will get some coverage. I doubt it.
Even our FBI director seems to be embellishing things a little.
Quote:
“This was an attack on our institutions and on our way of life,” FBI director Mueller told reporters.
That's a bit melodramatic. It was a senseless attack on a congress woman and those around her at the moment. Nothing more.
-
Dupnik is a dumb ass. I never did care for him as a Sheriff and his true colors are showing.
We drove by her office yesterday and the area was roped off and cops were keeping people away. That was when the suspicious package was identified. There were several people with candles accross the street from her office.
The mood is a bit somber here in Tucson today.
Even though I may not agree with most of her political decisions, I never wish ill will on any politician. I voted against her in the last election. Hopefully she will recover soon. Prayers to those that didn't survive.
-
http://www.wmnf.org/programs/show/162
Israeli news feed in this show brings up the question of anti-semitism because the Rep is Jewish. Southern Poverty Law picked this up yet?
-
What videos?
The three videos on his YouTube account that were pointed out by HillBuzz. All made since late November, with nothing else on the account. With the "gold standard" ranting, they sound like some of the loonies Ron Paul has been trying to scrape off his follower list.
Add in the "goodbye friends" posting just before the shooting, and it really sounds like he was planning to kill himself afterward and leave a pretty limited body of work to associate with himself.
-
This should be no surprise.
One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.
McCarthy ran for Congress after her husband was gunned down and her son seriously injured in a Long Island shooting in 1993.
"My staff is working on looking at the different legislation fixes that we might be able to do and we might be able to introduce as early as tomorrow," McCarthy told POLITICO in a Sunday afternoon phone interview.
-
This should be no surprise.
From the article, it looks like she might be going after ammunition quantities instead of guns i.e., "stockpiling". It appears at least two other Legislators will be introducing legislation tomorrow as well.
-
From the article, it looks like she might be going after ammunition quantities instead of guns i.e., "stockpiling". It appears at least two other Legislators will be introducing legislation tomorrow as well.
Hopefully this witch will be stopped cold by the House majority. Although, after what our new Speaker of the House said about this incident, I don't trust them to stop any gun control legislation. More likely they will try to appease with bipartisan support since one of the political class was a victim.
-
Read where the girl was the grand daughter of former Phillies manager Dallas Green. My prayers are going out to all those who were injured and killed and their families.
As for the nut job....if he is fit for trial he will hang on Federal Charges since he killed a Federal Judge.
-
From the article of the witch's plan.
Many said that people with a history of mental instability, like the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, should not be able to buy a gun — and no one should be able to buy stockpiles of ammunition used by the 22-year-old assailant.
McCarthy said she plans to confer with House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to see “if we can work something through” in the coming week.
McCarthy’s bill will look to protect ordinary people, she said, but did not offer further details.
“Again, we need to look at how this is going to work, to protect people, certainly citizens, and we have to look at what I can pass,” she said. “I don’t want to give the NRA – excuse the pun – the ammunition to come at me either.”
Another:
Another vocal supporter for gun control, Illinois Rep. Mike Quigley, told POLITICO that he hopes “something good” can come from the Arizona tragedy – perhaps discussion on a new assault weapon ban, sales at gun shows and tracing measures
.
And:
Loughner legally purchased his weapon – a Glock 19 with an extended magazine – from an Arizona store. The same kind of extended magazine was illegal under the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004.
“The ability to buy a weapon that fires hundreds of bullets in less than a minute,” said Quigley. “He had an additional magazine capability. That’s not what a hunter needs. That’s not what someone needs to defend their home. That’s what you use to hunt people
.”
-
You know, the Founders after wrangling and squabbling, finally ratified a Constitution creating a Constitutional Republic. The intent was to block the hysteria found in factionalism and make a slow thoughtful form of governance. The Senate would be the vehicle to inhibit the House and the Executive.
One can only hope many Americans will correspond with their Senators calling for this thoughfulness so that there won't be any knee jerk reaction creating stupid laws put forth by elected officials that have no clue as to their true function.
-
The Senate would be the vehicle to inhibit the House and the Executive.
If only that were true in this day and age. Our Senate, elected not appointed as the founders designed.
Our Senate. Reid, Fienstien, Boxer, Schumer....
-
You know, the Founders after wrangling and squabbling, finally ratified a Constitution creating a Constitutional Republic. The intent was to block the hysteria found in factionalism and make a slow thoughtful form of governance. The Senate would be the vehicle to inhibit the House and the Executive.
One can only hope many Americans will correspond with their Senators calling for this thoughfulness so that there won't be any knee jerk reaction creating stupid laws put forth by elected officials that have no clue as to their true function.
Yeah, the Senate was elected directly back by the state legislatures back then too.
Thanks to the seventeenth Amendment, the Senate's been more like the Varsity League version of the House. =|
-
Another vocal supporter for gun control, Illinois Rep. Mike Quigley, told POLITICO that he hopes “something good” can come from the Arizona tragedy – perhaps discussion on a new assault weapon ban, sales at gun shows and tracing measures
These people are like vultures, like ghouls. They'll use any tragedy to advance a political agenda. The families haven't even held services and this SOB is trying to push legislation.
-
Another sad thing to hear was that the little girl had been born on Sept 11, 2001.
-
It will be interesting to see how far these bills get. The R's (who run the committees in the house now) have an opportunity to stand up to this knee jerk crap.
-
This link is to a surprisingly unbiased AP story on the shooter. It mentions, among other things, that he is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. It interestingly draws some different conclusions than the other AP stories, which seem to be leaning towards the "white-supramacist / poor white trash" theory.
This story, to me, is more confirmation that he is an equal opportunity right/left/anarchist/communist/fascist/insert political orientation here/ loon. He seems to embrace the fringe of just about every major political view.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_gunman
-
it appears to be true
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/08/exp.az.zamudio.witness.cnn?hpt=T1
Joe Zammudio, an armed citizen ran towards the gunfire, saw that the shooters gun was empty and the slide locked back and assisted holding him down!
Yep. The Local news here elaborated and reported that there was a woman who disrupted his reload and grabbed his magazine while another tried to hold him down and the the gun away from him. Then Zammudio came in and assisted them in keeping him down. Apparently when interviewed, he was asked why he didn't draw his gun, and he said something like "it wasn't appropriate under the circumstances."
-
Yep. The Local news here elaborated and reported that there was a woman who disrupted his reload and grabbed his magazine while another tried to hold him down and the the gun away from him. Then Zammudio came in and assisted them in keeping him down. Apparently when interviewed, he was asked why he didn't draw his gun, and he said something like "it wasn't appropriate under the circumstances."
Unpossible. We all know (cuz some politicians and the VPC told us) that CCW holders are just itching to pull their fully-automatic assault revolvers to shoot anytime a fly farts.
-
And this idiot state just put Blumenthal into the Senate and I'm sure Lieberman won't be a whole lot of help either. Sorry everybody. ;/
I'll contact them anyways.
-
Done:
I am writing this quick note to you in regards to the Tucson shooting spree. I am, like all good Americans, totally horrified by the event, the tragic injuries and loss of life. I am also horrified, though not surprised, by the knee jerk response toward yet more legislation designed by those who would take this tragedy and try to use it to further their gun control agendas. Please show the wisdom I know you possess by not being a part of this charade. The vast majority of legitimate gun owners in this country do not deserve to have their liberties taken away in response to the actions of one unhinged individual. Furthermore legislation has proven itself virtually useless in deterring the non-law abiding citizen from procuring arms and using them in criminal endeavors. All it does is tie the hands of the law abiding citizen, leaving them outgunned by the criminal element. I would like to note in closing that a law abiding, gun carrying citizen ran toward and not away from the gunfire and assisted in subduing the individual doing the shooting. Meanwhile he maintained the presence of mind to know that drawing and firing his weapon in those circumstances was not the best choice. My hat is off to him. This is what we do, we take it upon ourselves to defend ourselves and those around us. Don't place anymore restrictions on our ability to do so.
Thank you,
-
Not so optimistic about Congress, especially the House. Seems the one thing happening this week will be a bipartisian resolution honoring the shooting victims and denouncing the shooter. Also reported on Fox (hope to find a link) is that gun control legislation is being tossed around, by republicans. Carl Cameron just reported that live.
-
So it would seem the Repubs were just lying around waiting for something like this to sway public opinion so they could jump on the bandwagon when it suited their purposes. There we are, all guilty by association again. ;/
-
It was a live report. No republicans named, just that republicans were considering. I want the names. I want to write them, for what good it will do.
If you don't mind. I'd like to copy your letter and send it to my critter, Mark Pryor. For what good it will do. He is pretty much a weasel.
-
Feel free.
I think the second to the last line could be better. More like "...we take responsibility for our own personal defense and that of those around us."
-
So if three or four people including at least one woman took down this shooter with their bare hands, doesn't that mean that bare hands are even more powerful and dangerous than pistols ???
:P
-
...doesn't that mean that bare hands are even more powerful and dangerous than pistols
Yes, and we will begin removing and confiscating everyone's hands on June 30th.
-
Yes, and we will begin removing and confiscating everyone's hands on June 30th.
You can have my hands when you take them from my bloody stumps. ;/
-
You can have my hands when you take them from my bloody stumps. ;/
If you will look closely at the 2nd Amendment, you will see that it gives you the right to bare arms, not hands. You are therefore in possession of illegal weapons. Turn yourself in immediately.
Sad story. Prayers for the families of the dead and injured.
-
Interview with Pima County Sheriff where he places the blame of those who opposed Obamacare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvc_7Fb5T5M
He admits he has no actual facts to back up his accusations, though.
-
He admits he has no actual facts to back up his accusations, though.
If liberals were required to back up their statements with facts, they'd never speak.
If you will look closely at the 2nd Amendment, you will see that it gives you the right to bare arms, not hands.
:D
-
seeing lots of folks blamestorming the republican rhetoric for inciting a leftist nutcase
-
According to Rush earlier today, he reported the shooter has been stalking the congresswoman since 2007. Sort of debunks blaming the TP and Palin inter alia as they weren't around on the national scene at the time.
-
According to Rush earlier today, he reported the shooter has been stalking the congresswoman since 2007. Sort of debunks blaming the TP and Palin inter alia as they weren't around on the national scene at the time.
How so?
The TP and Palin and talk radio just pushed him over the edge into acting on it of course. Took a mildly disturbed stalker and turned him into an assassin. ;/
-
Took a mildly disturbed stalker and turned him into an assassin
Yeah, just look at what those evil Republicans did to that poor stalker.
-
Yeah, just look at what those evil Republicans did to that poor stalker
The Bush/Cheney mind control machine must be real. I'm off to buy stock in Reynolds Wrap.
-
http://gawker.com/5729802/the-sad-death-of-gun-control
-
The same old drivel repackaged, Harold. Some nice guns in the silhouette photo.
-
Perhaps why the sheriff came out, all partisan guns blazing:
http://moelane.com/2011/01/10/did-dupnik-dismiss-loughner-threat/
http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/
"...The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.
Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County..."
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132780313/sheriff-accused-shooter-unhinged-made-threats
"...As we understand it, there have been law enforcement contacts with the individual where he made threats to kill," Dupnik said during a press conference Saturday evening. But he wouldn't say who those threats were aimed at..."
-
I just came over here to post the "theChollaJumps" link, but roo_ster beat me to it.
-
Perhaps why the sheriff came out, all partisan guns blazing:
http://moelane.com/2011/01/10/did-dupnik-dismiss-loughner-threat/
http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/
"...The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.
Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County..."
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132780313/sheriff-accused-shooter-unhinged-made-threats
"...As we understand it, there have been law enforcement contacts with the individual where he made threats to kill," Dupnik said during a press conference Saturday evening. But he wouldn't say who those threats were aimed at..."
So how about we pass a law to ban criminally incompetent sheriffs ???
;/
-
http://gawker.com/5729802/the-sad-death-of-gun-control
But a consensus has emerged that preserving access to firearms for the public at large is worth the occasional mass killing because the alternative—registering firearms, requiring competency evaluations before selling them—is too onerous.
Well.......yes actually. Although I would change the last word to dangerous. I guess at least one anti gets it. He just doesn't like it.
-
i heard that he was turned down for an ammo sale at a Walmart last week because of his demeanour
-
did you see this at the memorial?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2Fmercedesnotreticle.jpg&hash=bea2177c1e85c35b009d7216f76650ff6fc99d69)
A sign is shown on the lawn of University Hospital Sunday, Jan. 9, 2011 in Tucson, Ariz. for U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., and others who were shot a day earlier during a Giffords speech at a local supermarket. (Matt York / AP)
Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Congresswoman-raises-2-fingers-gives-thumbs-up-948257.php#ixzz1AggRdYZy
-
Everyone seems to be talking about the vitriol in political discourse, now my google-fu ain't all that strong but I found this about Benjamin Tillman:
During his Senate career, he was censured by the Senate in 1902 after assaulting John L. McLaurin, another Senator and his counterpart from South Carolina.[4] As a result, the Senate added to its rules the provision that "No senator in debate shall, directly or indirectly, by any form of words impute to another Senator or to other Senators any conduct or motive unworthy or unbecoming a Senator."[5] He was also barred from the White House
Does no one here remember their High Screwl History lessons ?? See if these ring a bell: Bloody Kansas ? John Brown and Harpers Ferry? Those were just some quick ones off the top of my head.
Vitriolic political discourse has always been the way with this country. The left is just using that a code phrase to "Shut up and agree with us".
-
Reply #45 was me linking to an AP story that was way over the top parading as a hard news story, not editorial.
I just clicked on it to reread it and post it up elsewhere. AP changed out the story at the link to a more balanced reporting of the facts. Oops! they must have got called on letting their real colors show so obviously.
-
did you see this at the memorial?
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//mercedesnotreticle.jpg
A sign is shown on the lawn of University Hospital Sunday, Jan. 9, 2011 in Tucson, Ariz. for U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., and others who were shot a day earlier during a Giffords speech at a local supermarket. (Matt York / AP)
I thought it was supposed to be a steering wheel.
-
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2Fmercedesnotreticle.jpg&hash=bea2177c1e85c35b009d7216f76650ff6fc99d69)
Drive luxury cars instead of shooting rifles?
???
-
Reason TV: 5 rules for coping with tragedy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWrsy5wyAnE
A lot of folks on both sides need to watch this.
-
Here is a good interview with Zamudio on MSNBC. He acquitted himself well. Especially with an unsympathetic interviewer. He is a good example of someone who used good judgement under pressure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3GTwalrGY&feature=player_embedded
Of course, they cut the segment short, and now they are spinning what he said. They are saying that he nearly shot the wrong man.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns/slatecom/
It's kinda hard to "almost" shoot someone when you haven't cleared leather. :facepalm:
-
They are saying that he nearly shot the wrong man.
Of course the cops never do anything like that ;/
-
You know, they couldn't have found a freakier looking guy if they'd put out a "American Freakazoid" reality show casting call...
-
I thought we already had him on here?
-
Of course, they cut the segment short, and now they are spinning what he said. They are saying that he nearly shot the wrong man.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns/slatecom/
It's kinda hard to "almost" shoot someone when you haven't cleared leather.
Anybody got access to a Simunitions setup or any other full-contact force-on-force system? I'd love to run a few dozen cops into that scenario cold and see how many of them actually do shoot the first armed person they see.
-
The reality of living in a free society is that the more free one is, the more danger one is exposed to. The fact is in our nation of 305 million people, the amount of violence one is exposed to every day is remarkably low.
-
Anybody got access to a Simunitions setup or any other full-contact force-on-force system? I'd love to run a few dozen cops into that scenario cold and see how many of them actually do shoot the first armed person they see.
I'l put $10 on "All of them" =(
-
I'l put $10 on "All of them" =(
Well, according to virtually every university police chief who has spoken up against TX HB 1893 (campus carry) last session, all of their officers are trained to kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out when it comes to armed people in the vicinity of active shooter situations.
Anybody want to gather up a few folks and a video camera, and just make a basic "shoot/don't" walkthrough video with this scenario? Start out of view of the incident area, with audio of a single weapon firing 20+ shots. Camera enters the view area 3-5 seconds after the last shot. Cut to black, say, a half second (representing time to decide during draw and aim, as well as how long you would have before a still-armed psycho would shoot you if that were the case) after the camera rounds the corner into view of the bodies, the armed, probably extremely jumpy person, and the dogpile on the (actual) shooter, and attach it to a poll. Best to dump it in the middle of a bunch of shoot/don't videos, though, so the viewer doesn't go in with this incident already playing out in their head.
There are a few things it would be helpful to know, though:
- How was the man holding the Glock? (Was he even holding it by the grip? How noticeable would that be on first sight?)
- Where was it pointed?
- Was the slide locked open? (Since the shooter had run dry at the time, it might have been. Again, how visible is this from the CHL's point of view?)
- How was he dressed? (Gangbanger, average guy, nicely dressed enough to be plainclothes security, wookiee suit and saucepan helmet, etc.)
-
I'l put $10 on "All of them" =(
I recently took one of Mas Ayoob's one week classes (the one that covers Judicious use of Deadly force). We ran through a number of video shoot/no shoot type scenarios. Most of the students got shot at least once. Interestingly enough, the only classmates that shot innocents were deputies in a major CA sheriffs department.