Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on January 27, 2011, 01:40:55 AM
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seems interesting or a great ad for these guys,http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/
I'm DVR'ing it right now
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Watched it. Pretty good show.
Chris
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I caught the last half of the show. They didn't impress me at all. They made the guys at OCC look like professionals. $3K for a slightly converted siaga 12g? That's an extreme waste of tax money.
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$3K for a slightly converted siaga 12g? That's an extreme waste of tax money.
Blame the bureaucrat that bought it, then went back and bought 8 more.
That said, what other options exist? I know it has been done in the past, but I can't find any commercially available examples. While it looks simple on the surface, $3k might be a decent price.
Chris
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Found one: http://www.autoweapons.com/photos07/may/1930kac.html
Price is $3k (look for listing about 2/3 down the page: http://www.autoweapons.com/products/sbr.html).
It too doesn't look heavily modified. It mounts differently, but the mount is still a pretty simple affair once you come up with the design.
I suspect the cost in both cases is mostly in the paperwork and liability side of things.
Chris
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I'm sure he's spending his federal grant money so he can get more next year :facepalm:.
Our local PD uses a standard police model 870 for breaching. One officer breaches the door and steps out of the way for the entry team to do it's job.
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Tony Rumore from Tromix is the man with the saiga plan, but IMHO, Molot did it better from the factory
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2Fvepr121.jpg&hash=55d727a67ed9e5f7be521ac0c0f852e28ef9bfba)
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I bet there is some serious cost involved in just being licesned to make such goodies.
I dvr'd it last night, promised the boy I'd watch it with him.
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I caught a glimpse of one episode where they had a "shooting contest" to see who got first turn at the trigger of some new project.
I couldn't believe how badly they shot, being that they are gunsmiths/ spend all day every day around guns/etc..
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I just happened to be flipping through channels and saw it. I forget to check out Discovery sometimes. Petty good stuff.
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I've watched two episodes. I don't need to see any more.
Maybe it is just the editing, but those guys come off as a bunch of monkeys with tools. Neither of the episodes I watched showed or hinted that those guys do any research or engineering prior to building something. There is nothing wrong with that, per se, but it reflects poorly on them.
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Bridgeport...
Bahahhahahahahaha.
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I've watched two episodes. I don't need to see any more.
Maybe it is just the editing, but those guys come off as a bunch of monkeys with tools. Neither of the episodes I watched showed or hinted that those guys do any research or engineering prior to building something. There is nothing wrong with that, per se, but it reflects poorly on them.
I agree with you here.
Maybe it's from listening to my brother ramble about mechanical engineering, but seeing these dudes "eyeball it" is extremely interesting.
I don't think I'd buy anything from them after watching the show, but still, interesting.
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Yeah I'm pretty much in the same boat.
Anybody notice that none of them can shoot for a crap, either?
I do think the saiga masterkey was great, but not for the reasons they made it. Having the ability to quickly breech multiple doors, or shoot more than one point on the door, without pumping the action, seems pretty awesome to me.
I might watch more, mostly because two of my favorite shows aren't running yet.
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After watching what my wife and teen daughters want to watch (Ellen, American Idol,etc.), and with the history channel showing everything BUT history -I guess I''m less critical.
Everyone on TV seems like a drama queen to me, so if guns are involved...it mo better.
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Yeah I'm pretty much in the same boat.
Anybody notice that none of them can shoot for a crap, either?
I do think the saiga masterkey was great, but not for the reasons they made it. Having the ability to quickly breech multiple doors, or shoot more than one point on the door, without pumping the action, seems pretty awesome to me.
I might watch more, mostly because two of my favorite shows aren't running yet.
That was key to me also. If you're doing a dynamic entry on a drug house or something, the first breaching round if it fails to open it, might be their clue to just start shooting back through the door. A a semi-auto that lets you keep on blasting as fast as you can pull the trigger until the door opens would be beneficial.
As to the poor shooting, with editing, I assume nothing when it's on TV.
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That was key to me also. If you're doing a dynamic entry on a drug house or something, the first breaching round if it fails to open it, might be their clue to just start shooting back through the door. A a semi-auto that lets you keep on blasting as fast as you can pull the trigger until the door opens would be beneficial.
As to the poor shooting, with editing, I assume nothing when it's on TV.
Not only that, but if you have a hardened door with multipe dead bolts, or you want to hit the hinges too. We got to do a couple days of mout training when I was in the Marines...I got to play breacher. Fun times >:D
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I wonder if they tuned the gas system to cycle with breaching rounds
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I wonder if they tuned the gas system to cycle with breaching rounds
According to the show, it seemed they did.
stay safe.
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I caught a glimpse of one episode where they had a "shooting contest" to see who got first turn at the trigger of some new project.
I couldn't believe how badly they shot, being that they are gunsmiths/ spend all day every day around guns/etc..
I would, after being around gunsmiths for a year and a half at CST. Just being around the guns doesn't mean they actually practice good shooting techniques... or practice in general for that matter.
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I would, after being around gunsmiths for a year and a half at CST. Just being around the guns doesn't mean they actually practice good shooting techniques... or practice in general for that matter.
I know mechanics who can't drive worth a crap. I also know excellent drivers who couldn't change a flat.
Different interests and skill sets.
DD
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so, why can the police just buy a modern XM-26?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpremium1.uploadit.org%2FdocZox%2F%2FXM26_html_m5ac10a76.gif&hash=741c99b09277b10a15fe579ac259cdcc3087b9e2)
The XM26 LSS was originally designed and developed by C-More Systems to meet the requirements of United States troops in Afghanistan for a lightweight less lethal and door breaching delivery system which would eradicate the need to carry an additional weapon such as a pump-action shotgun.
The XM-26 Lightweight Shotgun System has been in production and development at the United States Army's Soldier Battle Lab since late 1990s. These shotguns are manufactured by the prominent C-More Systems company. The concept was to equip soldiers with lightweight accessory weapon, which could be mounted under the generic issue infantry rifle (M16A2 or M4A1 carbine), and additionally provide soldiers with more capabilities, such as: very short-range increased lethality; door breaching using special slugs; using 00 buckshot; rubber slugs and buckshot, less-lethal capabilities using tear gas shells, and other less-lethal rounds.
Design
The original idea has been based on the standard Masterkey system, dated back to 1980s, which initially included the shortened Remington 870 shotgun mounted under the M16 rifle or carbine. The XM-26 improved upon the original Masterkey concept with the more comfortable handling, a detachable magazine option, thanks to bolt-operated system. Detachable magazine generally offers more rapid ammunition type change and quicker reloading; the relatively large bolt handle is located closer to the rear of the weapon, than the slide on the pump-action shotgun in the Masterkey configuration, and thus is much more comfortable to cycle in combat. The bolt handle could be mounted on either side of the shotgun. At the present time small numbers of XM26 LSS shotguns are issued to United States troops in Afghanistan, and, according to gunslot sources, these weapons are well received by troops who used them.
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XM-26 is a straight pull manually operated action...
Personally, I would not want to be saddled with a shotgun under my rifle...absolutely horrible balance and weight...
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XM-26 is a straight pull manually operated action...
Personally, I would not want to be saddled with a shotgun under my rifle...absolutely horrible balance and weight...
Military ops, I hear you loud and clear.
For a LEO though, the actual operation time is a matter of minutes usually.
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Military ops, I hear you loud and clear.
For a LEO though, the actual operation time is a matter of minutes usually.
But it's still a very negative penalty on the handling of the gun itself...you don't want to be klutzy and slow with a 2 lb (XM26) or 5lb(!) (Rem 870) hanging under the bbl...they are just pigs...
Separete specialty breaching shotgun that is slung after the breach is what's being used now by most, and for good reason.
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on the show they were hand gripping the saiga 12 gauge via the magazine
thats usually not a good idea on AKs
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Red Jacket makes great guns... I have one. Never seen the show.
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Bridgeport...
Bahahhahahahahaha.
I know what you mean. Nobody (http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=54775) can do good work with a Bridgeport.
Chris