Post by: gunsmith on March 23, 2006, 07:17:55 PM
My lane splitting threads cause a lot of consternation and outrage.
The outrage never changed my mind, for those of you who don't know, lane splitting
is when you are driving a motorcycle and you pass the car in front of you by splitting between two cars going in the same direction.
It should be legal in every state, it sounds dangerous to people who have never done it but to most California
motorcycle riders it's perfectly natural....I know, by saying that I am inviting Cali flames, but CA is not bad at all really, if we can win a good few 2A court cases I would move back there
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 23, 2006, 07:22:35 PM
'Course, I never noticed any...interesting* anarchists over there.
*read annoying, goofy, childish, etc.
Post by: theCZ on March 23, 2006, 07:46:36 PM
Post by: Guest on March 23, 2006, 07:54:17 PM
Cars have more rubber on the road than bikes, so they can (sometimes) outbreak us. Much worse, if we're camped behind some guy's bumper, an idiot in a cage coming in from the rear may fixate on the larger target ahead of them and ignore the smaller target (you on the bike) between.
Either way, the solution is "no-be-there-fu". Make your own lane down the middle
.Since moving to the Seattle area I've seen things I flat can't believe. One BMW bike had hard luggage about 2.5ft wide each side. Looked like Rosie O'Donnel's backside goin' down the road. Absolutely impossible to thread any needles on THAT piece of crap so if it all goes to hell in front of him he's toast. Even the guys on thin bikes don't have any experience with threading needles so they don't have the skills to use their best possible escape routes when it all goes rodeo.
Another bizarre thing I've not experienced much in 20 years on bikes: cagers acting like bullies.
In California, any cager who pulls that crap will only see the bike squirt forward and be gone. Ain't no fun to play with so they eventually stop.
Up here, we're legally "trapped" and there are jackarses who take full advantage...in the rain mind you.
Swear to God, next legislative session there's gonna be a brawl over the yearly pro-lanesplitting bills.
Post by: K Frame on March 23, 2006, 07:54:20 PM
He was doing fine until he apparently got in the one car's blind spot.
SPLAT.
Post by: Guest on March 23, 2006, 07:58:45 PM
Seriously. Just plain ol' going down isn't a killer. It's when you smack against something hard or GET smacked by something hard that you die. And without lanesplitting, bumping into something hard is much more likely.
In California where it's legal, bikers teach newbies how to lanesplit properly. Newbies afraid of lanesplitting follow older hands like a line of ducklings behind mama duck
- I've seen lines five or six bikes long. When a guy in front things he's slowing down bikers to the rear, he pulls over into a car lane and joins the back of the pack, watching the older hands and learning.None of that exists in VA.
Post by: brimic on March 23, 2006, 08:13:42 PM
Post by: K Frame on March 23, 2006, 08:25:33 PM
It is when a following car can't stop in time and ends up stopped with the biker pinned between the bumper and the bike.
It didn't look very comfortable.
I'd say a bunch of broken ribs, a badly broken arm, and a a serious concussion.
Post by: gunsmith on March 23, 2006, 10:47:41 PM
I also know that I am alive because of my lane splitting skills.
I was lane splitting on I95 in FL one time and this yahoo kept on movig over
and taking the spot I was going to pass him with. So I retuned the favor one better.
I got in front of the car in front of him and slowed down the fast lane we were in by ten miles an hour.
Why is it that people get so bent out of shape because a motorcycle is passing them?
When I feel like getting stuck in traffic I use the pick up truck, and I listen to the radio and chill out when I am passed.
Mike, sounds like your biker wasn't really lane splitting, if a car stops when your lane splitting it is not a big deal at all.
also , you should be a good rider to attempt it, I only do it after riding a new to me bike for a few weeks.
A guy I knew who ran a bike shop in FL lost a good friend because he wasn't lane splitting and a tire fell off the back of a SUV and killed the biker obeying the law.
One time on 101 in CA I was taking it easy and didn't feel like lane splitting and a SUV with one of those swing arm tire holders on the back swung open and the guy slammed on his breaks, my lane splitting skills really came in handy
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2006, 12:49:06 AM
Post by: gunsmith on March 24, 2006, 01:16:35 AM
funny you should mention that, I was a NY city bike messenger before climbing on a motorcycle in San Francisco, where I was also a bike and motorcycle messenger
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2006, 01:31:59 AM
But I guess that would account for your "advanced" lane splitting skillz...
Post by: K Frame on March 24, 2006, 03:16:21 AM
Well, as I understand the definition of lane splitting...
Two lanes of traffic traveling in the same direction.
Motorcyclist rides the white dividing line up the center between the lanes.
A gap opens and one car decides that he needs to be right, and clips the motorcyclist.
Motorcyclist lays out, car behind pins guy between the car bumper and the motorcycle.
The police did cite the driver of the car for making an unsafe lane change, I don't know about the motorcyclist. They werer more worried with getting him to the hospital.
So, I'd say yeah, it's a BIG deal when the car stops in such a manner.
Unless your chest has been classified a parking lot.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 24, 2006, 03:47:56 AM
Whatever you want to do to yourself....I don't care. I just don't see how it could be safe.
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2006, 04:00:45 AM
A fair portion of the traffic related deaths or injuries that occured to motorcyclists that I've known were caused by little white haired old ladies that didn't see the biker.
Post by: CatsDieNow on March 24, 2006, 05:27:23 AM
I don't think it's a good idea because the drivers here are just not used to looking for motorcycles to be splitting lanes. Californiaia riders have been doing it for years, so it's not an unexpected occurance there. Heck, I am just happy if the cars here notice me, period.
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 05:40:40 AM
Tokugawa 35 years riding, current bike ZRX 1200.
Post by: InfidelSerf on March 24, 2006, 05:56:18 AM
Quote
I just don't see how it could be safe.
It's not safe. That's just it. It's a calculated risk, with variances and tolerances.But then again riding a motorcycle period is a calculated risk.
However if the rider chooses to use the computer between ones ears. Then it becomes THE most satisfying and exhilarating experience anyone can learn to appreciate, lane splitting and all.
I imagine lane splitting in an area where its common and legal makes the risk level drop some.
Where I grew up riding I believe it was illegal (not that it stopped us from learning how and practicing)
But I regularly used the lane split to whip through traffic before anyone knew I was there.
Post by: Art Eatman on March 24, 2006, 06:04:55 AM
Fast forward, and in the late '60s/early /70s I messed around with smaller bikes. I soon learned that commuting in Austintatious was a death wish. Motorcycles are invisible in that town. Small sports cars were bad enough for idiots drifting over, not seeing a Lotus or Austin Healey.
Still, "If they didn't want me riding there, they wouldn't have paved it!"
, Art
Post by: Telperion on March 24, 2006, 06:32:19 AM
Quote
I don't think it's a good idea because the drivers here are just not used to looking for motorcycles to be splitting lanes.
How much deference should be given to "that's the way it's been here"? Shouldn't get rid of California's or Massachusetts' gun laws because people are just used to it? People can handle new rules. Happens all the time.
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 24, 2006, 06:33:25 AM
Quote
One BMW bike had hard luggage about 2.5ft wide each side. Looked like Rosie O'Donnel's backside goin' down the road.
I'll bet Jim has all sorts of disdain for Harley or Goldwing-based trikes, then, too. Probably won't give them a courtesy hand wave when seeing them oncoming from the other lane.I rode my Harley all over Northern Kalifornia for 10 years. Never lane split once. Had a CHP friend, motorcycle cop, who explained the only reason Kalifornia let lane splitting be legal is so the motorcycle cops could maneuver better to the scene of an accident in traffic, for a better response time.
It's funny how the lane splitters I see are also the ones popping wheelies as soon as the traffic lights turn green, and doing those nose wheel stands when stopping. Maybe I'm just not in that big a rush to get from point A to point B, and dying somewhere in between. :/
Post by: jefnvk on March 24, 2006, 07:13:30 AM
Of course, I don't live in a high traffic area like Cali, so my view may be warped. I could see the utility when traffic is bumper to bumper at a crawl, but there really isn't much use when traffic is flowing freely at 10 over the speed limit.
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 07:26:28 AM
The only really comprehensive American motorcycle safety study (hurt report) and its author gave a pretty strong endorsement to the safety of lane splitting versus sitting in traffic. Also remember that this is the standard operating procedure in virtually all of the overly safety conscious European traffic systems.
The problem with splitting is that it *looks* horribly dangerous, and there is always some jackass that has to do it at an absurd rate of speed to make it look even more so. There is a bill in the Washington state system to allow splitting, im almost certain that it won't pass, but I wish it would. I am pretty sure that the Texas law actually has passed.
It does seem odd to me that the primary complaints from driver's about splitting is the visibility issue. The fact is that drivers dont see us no matter what, so this complaint rings false. Splitting provides motorcyclists with more oportunities to avoid being struck by a car, and that is the *only* thing that keeps riders alive. There is no such thing as "visibility" on a motorcycle.
Post by: Otherguy Overby on March 24, 2006, 08:01:21 AM
If you've been through one of thier courses, you might recall something called "The Hurt Report"
Anyway there was a PHD at USC who pioneered much of the aircraft accident studies and how to investigate an aircraft crash. His name was Hugh Harrison (Harry) Hurt and he was also a motorcyclist. Through a little academic networking he got a grant to study motorcycle accidents which resulted in said "Hurt Report" that the MSF quotes so often.One thing the MSF never says, repeats, prints or whatever is: Good old Harry Hurt stated that on a busy freeway being between the lines of traffic was often the safest place to be.
Added*
Harry's statement regarding lane splitting was made during an interview with F2W's Margeret Fowler many years ago of which I've a transcribed copy of. Email me for it if you wish, it is quite interesting. (It's 11 pages long, so it's not suitable for posting)
Post by: doczinn on March 24, 2006, 08:29:26 AM
Quote
if I couldn't see him what could I do?
Maybe checking your blind spot would help. Thatr's why you're told to check youir blind spot.Quote
It's funny how the lane splitters I see are also the ones popping wheelies as soon as the traffic lights turn green, and doing those nose wheel stands when stopping.
Not the ones I see.
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on March 24, 2006, 08:43:58 AM
It's insane.
Post by: K Frame on March 24, 2006, 08:48:38 AM
Well, to be perfectly honest, so does driving in general.
Post by: jefnvk on March 24, 2006, 09:13:13 AM
Quote
Maybe checking your blind spot would help. Thatr's why you're told to check youir blind spot.
The only problem is, is that when a car is along side me, I know it is there. It is not a blind spot issue. Anyone who doesn't ride a motorcycle doesn't think to look to see if there is anything between them and the car they can see next to them. Especially where lanesplitting is not common. It is not an issue of not seeing the cycle, it is an issue of not thinking to see that the center line is clear back past your car, when there shouldn't really be anything there.Like I said, not common at all around here. It has happened to me exaclty once in my 5 or 6 years of driving, and his buddy passed me in the gravel on the right. Both were doing well over 100 at the time.
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2006, 09:53:17 AM
Quote
Maybe checking your blind spot would help. Thatr's why you're told to check youir blind spot.
I make a habit of doing so, even more so after that experience but that doesn't mean I can't miss seeing a motorcycle or even a car for that matter. A good / experienced rider knmows what a blind spot is and knows not to hang in them and to move through them quickly.Ever see the little sign on the back of a truck that says, "If you can't see my mirrors, I CAN'T SEE YOU"?
They put that there for a reason.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 24, 2006, 10:02:16 AM
I imagine riding on a sidewalk would be even safer than lanesplitting - fewer cars to avoid.
If you're willing to disregard some the standard driving practices (and I suppose there's nothing terribly wrong with that), why not go all the way and disregard all of them? Bicycle couriers do just that, and no great harm comes of it. So why not do it on a motorcycle?
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 10:05:55 AM
Quote
Like I said, not common at all around here. It has happened to me exaclty once in my 5 or 6 years of driving, and his buddy passed me in the gravel on the right. Both were doing well over 100 at the time.
Splitting is illegal in your state, so I wouldnt be suprised that it is rare. Visibility isnt the issue, you are talking about a group of people who are routinely run over by people who "didnt see" them when they are sitting on 500 pounds of brightly colored steel, for bikers the "blind spot" is a continous sphere that surrounds an entire vehicle, riders do not make it home because drivers saw them, they make it home by avoiding the people who don't, and splitting makes that easier.Doesnt seem odd to you that the only people who object to the safety of splitting are people who have never ridden a bike in traffic?
Quote
If you're willing to disregard some the standard driving practices (and I suppose there's nothing terribly wrong with that), why not go all the way and disregard all of them? Bicycle couriers do just that, and no great harm comes of it. So why not do it on a motorcycle?
Standard driving practices? You may be suprised to learn that the U.S. is the *exception* to the practice of lane splitting, most traffic systems in the world actively alllow, encourage, and even require, lane splitting. The fact is that most nations in the world have found it to be both safer and more effecient, and most people who actually experience traffic on two wheels feel the same. This argument isnt about safety, its about people in cars not wanting to lose the commute race.
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2006, 10:10:14 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 24, 2006, 10:18:40 AM
Quote from: c_yeager
Quote
If you're willing to disregard some the standard driving practices (and I suppose there's nothing terribly wrong with that), why not go all the way and disregard all of them? Bicycle couriers do just that, and no great harm comes of it. So why not do it on a motorcycle?
Standard driving practices? You may be suprised to learn that the U.S. is the *exception* to the practice of lane splitting, most traffic systems in the world actively alllow, encourage, and even require, lane splitting. The fact is that most nations in the world have found it to be both safer and more effecient, and most people who actually experience traffic on two wheels feel the same. This argument isnt about safety, its about people in cars not wanting to lose the commute race.Personally, I don't care how you ride your motorcycle. If you want to break a senseless petty driving rule I won't object. It's just that I'm confused. It seems that riding on a clear sidewalk would be even safer and more convienent still. A road with a wide shoulder would also be ideal. So why not?
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
I don't dispute that it's a safe practice. It may be quite common in many places. But around here, NOBODY does it. It's against the law, and a cop will bust you if he catches you doing it (I think). Officially, vehicles are suppose to stay in their lanes except when moving from one way to another. But if you're gonna break that rule, why not break some more? In for a penny, in for a pound...
Personally, I don't care how you ride your motorcycle. If you want to break a senseless petty driving rule I won't object. It's just that I'm confused. It seems that riding on a clear sidewalk would be even safer and more convienent still. A road with a wide shoulder would also be ideal. So why not?
Where did breaking the law enter into the equation, the original poster of this thread lives in California, where this practice is perfectly legal.
Personally, I don't care how you ride your motorcycle. If you want to break a senseless petty driving rule I won't object. It's just that I'm confused. It seems that riding on a clear sidewalk would be even safer and more convienent still. A road with a wide shoulder would also be ideal. So why not?
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 24, 2006, 10:46:37 AM
Here's what I want to know: Why not ride your motorcycle on any other available, empty parts of the road, such as the shoulder, median, sidewalk, etc? Why limit yourself to the empty spaces between lanes?
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
Here's what I want to know: Why not ride your motorcycle on any other available, empty parts of the road, such as the shoulder, median, sidewalk, etc? Why limit yourself to the empty spaces between lanes?
Because doing so would be excessively dangerous to myself and/or to others. Your question is analagous to asking a person who shoots at a pistol range why they dont perform their target practice in an alley in the middle of a city, it's assinine.
Post by: jefnvk on March 24, 2006, 12:14:12 PM
Quote
Because doing so would be excessively dangerous to myself and/or to others. Your question is analagous to asking a person who shoots at a pistol range why they dont perform their target practice in an alley in the middle of a city, it's assinine.
Maybe recommending driving on a sidewalk is assanine. But is driving on the shoulder really any different than driving between cars, especially if it is paved?
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 24, 2006, 12:16:44 PM
"Lanesplitting" isn't something folks around here do, so I don't know anything about it. I don't ride motorcycles, so again I know very little about this stuff. I was merely curious.
I'll admit that I didn't pose my questions very clearly. For that, I apologize. But there's nothing asinine about asking an honest question.
Here's another honest question: Why is it dangerous to ride a motorcycle on a median or empty sidewalk? How is that akin to "target practice in an alley in the middle of a city"?
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 12:32:12 PM
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
Here's another honest question: Why is it dangerous to ride a motorcycle on a median or empty sidewalk? How is that akin to "target practice in an alley in the middle of a city"?
I really thought it was obvious, sidewalks are filled with pedestrians, who do have the right of way there, and the median is usually filled with debris and two way traffic.The shoulder is debatable, but its risky because of all the people entering the roadway from that side.
Post by: 280plus on March 24, 2006, 12:56:32 PM
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on March 24, 2006, 03:16:58 PM
c_yeager, with statements like 'cagers just not wanting to be left behind', or somesuch (I'm not going to bother going back to read it a second time), you demonstrate how lost and out-of-touch with reality you really are. Nobody I know gives a rat's rump about that, with regard to the lanesplitting issue. It's just about not wanting myself or my wife & kids to have to witness you become road pizza by your dangerous activity you demand to exercise in the name of "freedom". Yeah. Right.
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 04:29:05 PM
Quote
c_yeager, with statements like 'cagers just not wanting to be left behind', or somesuch (I'm not going to bother going back to read it a second time), you demonstrate how lost and out-of-touch with reality you really are.
You might want to take the quotation off a statement, the likes of which never crossed my lips. Im out of touch because I said something that exists only in your imagination? Fancy that. It takes one whole button to pull down a quote, if you can be bothered to do that then your opinion is less than irrelevant. Quote
It's just about not wanting myself or my wife & kids to have to witness you become road pizza by your dangerous activity you demand to exercise in the name of "freedom". Yeah. Right.
Try actually reading the thread before posting sometime, just for a change. Who mentioned "freedom" at any time? You have missed the *entire* point of this thread and every single post in it. It is getting to be tiring.
Post by: InfidelSerf on March 24, 2006, 05:32:20 PM
And I suspect the reason its a legal and common practice in such large metro areas as LA, Hong Kong, Madrid etc.
When motorcyclists lanesplit they actually reduce the congestion of traffic by freeing up more space for the cages.
Think about that the next time a motorcycle pulls up to you at a light and allows you to make it through that annoying 10.25 second timed signal you have to deal with everyday.
Post by: Felonious Monk/Fignozzle on March 24, 2006, 07:26:42 PM
Quote from: c_yeager
Quote
c_yeager, with statements like 'cagers just not wanting to be left behind', or somesuch (I'm not going to bother going back to read it a second time), you demonstrate how lost and out-of-touch with reality you really are.
You might want to take the quotation off a statement, the likes of which never crossed my lips. Im out of touch because I said something that exists only in your imagination? Fancy that. It takes one whole button to pull down a quote, if you can be bothered to do that then your opinion is less than irrelevant. Quote
It's just about not wanting myself or my wife & kids to have to witness you become road pizza by your dangerous activity you demand to exercise in the name of "freedom". Yeah. Right.
Try actually reading the thread before posting sometime, just for a change. Who mentioned "freedom" at any time? You have missed the *entire* point of this thread and every single post in it. It is getting to be tiring.Okay, Homer. Here goes...your quote:
Quote from: c_yeager
This argument isnt about safety, its about people in cars not wanting to lose the commute race.
Doh!The subject and point of this thread SEEMS to be "Lane splitting". You're for it (and as such, want your FREEDOM to lane split). I'm against it. I've told you my reasons, you've done the same. Why don't we let it go at that, or do you have some compulsion that you MUST have the last word? Okay. Go ahead. I'll just 'be done' now, and you can spew what you will.
Post by: Guest on March 24, 2006, 07:38:00 PM
Quote
'cagers just not wanting to be left behind'
And here is what was actually said:Quote
This argument isnt about safety, its about people in cars not wanting to lose the commute race.
So, you still think your use of quotations was appropriate? here is a handy refference guide for you to peruse before you answere; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_markAs far as your "freedom" assertion, thats a big reach, and you know it.
Quote
Why don't we let it go at that
Here is why. You made a straw man argument. Which is fine, its your priviledge. The problem is that you decided to put my name on your strawman. You argued against two points that were pulled out of your imagination, which again, is your right. But when it crosses the line into something you get to get called to task about is when you place a person's name on it as if they actually said the things that you are claiming they said, I didnt. You know this, and your trying really hard to play the wronged man, when the truth is that you are trying to start a dialogue that has nothing to do with the issue, simply because you cannot argue it's merits. I dont have a problem with you presenting hollow and flat arguments, its when you put those ill-crafted words into my mouth that I have a problem, and if you think I will simply ignore such hamfisted attempts at debates then you are sorely mistaken.I wouldnt be nearly so offended if you were actually good at it.
Post by: gunsmith on March 24, 2006, 09:49:39 PM
I do not ride on the shoulder because of dangerous evil gravel lives there and it is for emergengies only, they are really dangerous.
most harley guys don't lane split for some reason, except for the outlaw type biker.
The only street bike race I've ever lost was to a Hells Angel, I had only 25 minutes to get my delivery to court and I was 40 minutes away according to the speed limit. All of a sudden as I was passing SFO on 101 traffic started backing up, the owner of the company I worked for was a crazed right wing gun nut, so I couldn't let him down. I had to get my package delivered.
traffic backed up and I started lane splitting. A few of the bikers let me pass and I was behind a bike going as fast as I was. So I passed him finally by going around a few cars I looked and saw he was flying colors...he looked and saw me on my FZR600 and the race was on and he sped up (I was doing 70 while lane splitting)
I figured if a big harley can split lanes at 80 so can I...but I passed him anyway (I really was in a hurry anyway)
we were both doing over 90 so I stopped looking at the speedometer and started praying (really, I often pray at high speeds and dangerous situations like that, to remain calm and extra insurance, so if I die at least I'll die praying and I hope that will be looked on favorably by the big biker upstairs)...he finally won, I could have kept up with him, but I decided that he really was crazier than I and would prefer death over losing a bike race.
I've never raced professionally, I wouldn't mind trying.
As I bicycle messenger I would only ride on the side walk to get to the place I was going to lock up my bike.
every day 20 or 30 people would tell me to ride on the sidewalk and get out of their way , those people were in cars. others would tell me to ride in the park, not having a clue that I was downtown working.
I also discovered that californians who are so willing to outlaw gun have no problem with using cars as weapons...
Anyway, if you can't lane split then don't. It really is safer then staying behind a car sucking the exhaust though.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on March 25, 2006, 06:05:40 AM
1. Stupid
2. Stupid
3. Stupid
Post by: ...has left the building. on March 25, 2006, 07:29:15 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5204409681605636120&q=ghost+rider
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 26, 2006, 02:41:40 PM
If a sidewalk is empty (no passengers or other obstacles), would riding on that sidewalk be any more dangerous or inapproprate than lanesplitting?
Post by: BillBlank on March 27, 2006, 12:52:52 AM
Headless, like everything the answer to that question is dependent on the context. Police presence, blind entrances etc. To be honest the only time I would feel happy with my bike on the sidewalk is at a time of night and traffic/people density that would render the exercise pointless due to the traffic levels on the road.
My apologies to the other motorcyclists here, the following statements are in no way a reflection of their opinions or conduct on the road. They are mine and were expensively acquired, dropping a sportsbike, even at low speed, cost me on average £2000 to put right.
Lane splitting is down to personal choice and judgement. I've seen other riders do it in ways that have me braking to avoid the accident they are about to cause. On the other hand, I will admit that I am guilty of it myself. When I was commuting 70ish miles a day on mostly dual carraigeway I did it. I used my bikes superior accelleration to minimise the the time spent between vehicles and undertook as a matter of routine if the clearance available was greater than 1 1/2 times a car width and there were no junctions ahead etc., etc. I used my judgement and the only assumption I ever made about the behaviour of car drivers was that they could see me perfectly and were determined to kill me. Combine this with my expensive education, track and road based, the fact that I have no wish to join the choir invisibule and I seemed to get along alright. Only ever had to use my brakes once or twice doing it, the rest of the time engine braking sufficed due to good observation, adjustment to road conditions and planning.
Until you ride a motorcycle of reasonable power and handling you have no idea just how huge the difference is to a car. You have to adjust your entire outlook to it's capabilities. Ridden by a rider of skill even my little gsxr750 will out accellerate, out brake and out manouvre 95% of four wheeled traffic. It is my opinion that these capabilities, coupled with an awareness of the weak points of your bike and riding ability, allow you to progress to your destination in a manner that simply cannot be understood by someone who does not have experience in the field, Rendering their opinions mostly irrelavant due to a lack of a common frame of reference.
Let the flames commence, I haven't been this arrogant and dismissive of the opinions of others in ages
By the way I have experience in lots of fields, oil seed rape, wheat and cabbage to name but a few. Thats why I spent more on instruction and track time than bikes
.