Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: BridgeRunner on February 12, 2011, 11:08:29 AM
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Logistical question:
Pending local job offer, I am planning on turning my kitchen nook, turned den, turned home office back into a den/playroom. It's a corner turned into a three-sided room, about 10'x10' by kitchen counter/cooktop forming the third wall. The open side is a walkway from the kitchen to the basement door. That blank wall would be a great place to put a tv (well, for the time being, an LCD monitor that hooks up to my laptop, what with having those things already) except there's no electric.
If I got one of those floor cord protecters used in office settings, I could run a cord down to the floor, across the basement doorway, to another plug. Downside is then it is plugged in in the "play area"--great temptation for toddlers, but that could be overcome with furniture placement. Other downside--I'd have to rehang the basement door. No biggie--it an old, cheap hollow door I got from Menards as-is section for a buck, and my spouse hung it very poorly. This could be an opportunity to take it down, paint it, cut it to size, fix the series of slightly misplaced screw holes in the frame, and rehang it. Not that I'm that much better than my spouse at hanging a door, and of course that turns it into a slightly more expesnive and time-consuming project.
Or, I could run it up the wall, across the ceiling over the kitchen, into the fridge space, and plug it in behind the fridge.
Or, I could put a hole in the wall, put the cord through the wall and plug it in the living room. I have installed a plug on an electric wire before, but don't know if I did it right or safely or if that's a good/safe long-term solution.
Theoretically, I could put a larger hole in the wall behind the tv area (may wall-mount LCD anyway) and run a cord up behind the wall to the attic. And then I've got a cord in the attic. Not sure where to go from there. :facepalm: I haven't actually been in the attic in over three years because of allergens. I could suck it up and work up there for a bit, though.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Links to working with electricity for dummies who don't know about electricity, but whose electrical engineer grandfathers instilled a deep caution of messing with electricity? Yeah, I know this is a silly question, but I've wanted to stick a tv on this wall for a couple years now and every time I give it up, just can't settle on which is best/safest compromise. This time I really want to do it, because it will give the kids more room for toy storage and playing and will get the tv out of the most immediate vicinity, let the space be more than just a couch-potato parking lot.
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When it comes to TV's, the longer the cord and the more plugs you use, the less the quality of power will be. With lower quality of power you run the risk of not getting the most out of an LCD Tv.
The best answer is probably running real 110 from a junction in the attic to the wall. Not an overly diffiuclt or expensive project, one any electrician could knock out quickly.
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or, if the circuit for the room behind it is not at capacity, you could easily put an outlet opposing an existing outlet there.
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I'd also be hesitant to put a cord protector on the floor in front of the basement steps. Trip hazard and all. No sense in increasing one's chances of doing a half-gainer down the stairs to the basement.
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If you're talking about putting the cord through a hole in the wall into the living room and plugging it in there, I'm assuming that the living room outlet is in the same spot, behind and below where you want to hang the TV in your new den.
If that's the case, the conduit or bx (metal shielded wires) for the living room outlet is either coming up from your basement, or coming down from the attic. Either way, having an electrician run a length of bx to a new outlet behind your TV would probably cost just a $100-$200.
Running an unprotected cord into the wall is a fire hazard. Running it across the floor is traffic hazard.
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If you're talking about putting the cord through a hole in the wall into the living room and plugging it in there, I'm assuming that the living room outlet is in the same spot, behind and below where you want to hang the TV in your new den.
If that's the case, the conduit or bx (metal shielded wires) for the living room outlet is either coming up from your basement, or coming down from the attic. Either way, having an electrician run a length of bx to a new outlet behind your TV would probably cost just a $100-$200.
Running an unprotected cord into the wall is a fire hazard. Running it across the floor is traffic hazard.
I agree completely. Depending on the situation, you may be able to get away with running romex to a freshly installed box.
When it comes to TV's, the longer the cord and the more plugs you use, the less the quality of power will be. With lower quality of power you run the risk of not getting the most out of an LCD Tv.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2Fb8veva.jpg&hash=1397da60b8e1ffd2a07b5384ea22ca13b962d214)
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Is there room for a stationary bike with an alternator and an inverter?
Keep the kids healthy while watching TV.
jim
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Nick, replies like that to Jamis' post are why I love this place. :D
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I'd also be hesitant to put a cord protector on the floor in front of the basement steps. Trip hazard and all. No sense in increasing one's chances of doing a half-gainer down the stairs to the basement.
Since that is where she keeps the bodies anyway, wouldn't it be more of an unexpected bonus than a trip hazard?
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Since that is where she keeps the bodies anyway, wouldn't it be more of an unexpected bonus than a trip hazard?
Hmmm...ya' got me there.
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WireMold
http://www.legrand.us/Wiremold/At-Home/All-Home-Ideas.aspx
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TV on an wall with no electricity?
Won't work. Your TV needs electricity to work. Women. ;/
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Or, I could run it up the wall, across the ceiling over the kitchen, into the fridge space, and plug it in behind the fridge.
This is probably your safest and easiest bet. A good quality extension cord, surge protector, and some wall hooks (I like the Command Strip hooks) will have you up and running in less than a half-hour....
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I agree completely. Depending on the situation, you may be able to get away with running romex to a freshly installed box.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2Fb8veva.jpg&hash=1397da60b8e1ffd2a07b5384ea22ca13b962d214)
I'm guessing this is based on most people using the cheapest spaghetti thin extension cord they can find instead of one of the proper gauge.
I'm not sure what running an extension cord around would do to the quality of the power interference wise or if it would be something the power circuits in the TV could clean out.
I do know that electricity hurts the unwise.
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I'm guessing this is based on most people using the cheapest spaghetti thin extension cord they can find instead of one of the proper gauge.
Correct.
The Romex in the wall has no magical properties over your extension cord.
Is this the ground floor? Is the basement unfinished? Is the basement the location of the wiring? What is the flooring like on both sides of the wall?
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I'm guessing this is based on most people using the cheapest spaghetti thin extension cord they can find instead of one of the proper gauge.
Thing of it is:
1. An LCD TV doesn't pull enough power for voltage drop to even be a concern. 250ish watts seems to be on the high side for a 40 inch from some internet searching. That in mind, the NEC gives us up to 10% allowable voltage drop. Assuming a starting voltage of 125VAC, at a maximum voltage drop the TV would get 112.5VAC. At 250 watts, that gives us 2.22amps. Now, by ohm's law, we can determine that the resistance of the voltage drop in this circuit is 12.5 = (2.22)R. 5.63 Ohms.
That's a lot. To put that in perspective, if we had a 100 foot run of wire between the source and the TV, it could be as small as 27 gauge and still be within NEC tolerance. Know the wires in ribbon cable for a 3.5" floppy drive? That is 26 gauge. So, smaller.
That's not to say you should wire it like that. But it does demonstrate that a high level of resistance in plugs spaghetti'd together won't cause enough voltage drop on that load to be a concern. Even really dodgey plugs in the US will typically have less then .1 Ohms resistance. [think about it, if it had a higher resistance, the heat dissipated when it is brought close to it's rating would start a house fire.]
2. LCD monitors and TV's use switch mode power supplies. These work by immediately rectifying and smoothing incoming power into high voltage DC. Most of them will work down to about 90VAC. All of them will work within the NEC spec of 10% voltage drop. The internal electronics won't see any difference. The low voltage dc busses are still right where they should be.
3. What's the weediest, cheapest extension cord you can find in the US? 16awg, maybe 18awg if you really try? Many IEC cables that power computers, monitors, printers, etc are 18awg. The one powering this very computer is, actually. Oh noes, I might not be getting the most out of my computer!!!1!
It is on these grounds I consider the claim baseless.
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Is it not still a good idea to make sure the extension cord is rated for the amperage of the device?
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Is it not still a good idea to make sure the extension cord is rated for the amperage of the device?
Sure it is. Although, I think you would be hard pressed to find one that wasn't.
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I don't know about TVs, but I seem to recall that my microwave had a higher amp rating than an ordinary household extension cord. I have it hooked up to one of the short, thick jobs.
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I don't know about TVs, but I seem to recall that my microwave had a higher amp rating than an ordinary household extension cord. I have it hooked up to one of the short, thick jobs.
Yea, microwaves have high amperage draws. At higher amperage draws, voltage drop becomes more of a problem.
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I don't know about TVs, but I seem to recall that my microwave had a higher amp rating than an ordinary household extension cord. I have it hooked up to one of the short, thick jobs.
Yeah, but a full-size microwave is probably 1100 or 1200 watts. The very small ones are 600 to 750 watts.
Most residential circuits are 15 amps, wired with 14-gauge wire. A 15 amp circuit is capable of about 1800 watts. Kitchen circuits are now required by code to be 20-amp circuits, which requires 12-gauge wire and are good for 2400 watts.
250 watts is nothing. It's 2.08 amps. I have a living room floor lamp that takes three single bulbs plus a 3-way in the center. If the three singles are 75-watt and the 3-way is a 50/100/150, that lamp at full output is using 375 watts. No big deal.