Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Northwoods on April 05, 2011, 01:21:51 AM
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We've got a Honda self propelled 21" mower that dates to 1986. I used it to mow the neighbors' lawns as a teenager. I still have PTSD issues whenever I fire it up. But it runs very strong.
Anyway, we have around an acre of cleared land on our property, and no matter how good a 21" mower might be, it'll still take an absurdly long time to mow all the grass. So we need a rider. 42" is the bare minimum I'll pay money for. Beyond that I don't have many prejudices as to size, power, brand, features, etc. Mostly what I need is something that'll cut that acre-ish lawn in around an hour. It's not terribly even ground though.
I know there's John Deere, Cub Cadet, Craftsman, and Toro brands out there. What are the pros/cons of each, and what other brands are out there and worth considering?
I'm probably going to buy used, if I can find a good enough deal. What are the weak points to inspect, and what are the typical problems that get the clueless to sell for a song but are cheap and easy to fix for someone that's a quick study?
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this site has a pretty good section on lawn tractors, not the most active site on the web but good info to be had.
http://www.tractorforum.com/ (http://www.tractorforum.com/)
When it comes to consumer grade lawn tractors/riding mowers there are only a few actual manufacturers, MTD and AYP being the biggest players. They make mowers that are sold under many different brand names.
As for engines the predominant players are Briggs and Stratten and Kohler with Honda nipping at their heels, my opinion is that Kohler is the better between them and B&S by a good margine.
As for JD and Cub Cadet, there are major differences between the machines you will find a the big box store and he ones you will see on actual dealers lots.
Then thre are the ZTR (zero turn radius) mowers that are supposed to make cutting the lawn almost orgasmic but I've never used one and prefer to have a machine that is a little more multi-purpose.
Problems you will likely encounter with the cheaper mowers are the decks rusting out, spindle bearings going bad, fuel related problems caused by ethanol mix gas and things that can be blamed on a general lack of maintenance.
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Then thre are the ZTR (zero turn radius) mowers that are supposed to make cutting the lawn almost orgasmic but I've never used one and prefer to have a machine that is a little more multi-purpose.
Problems you will likely encounter with the cheaper mowers are the decks rusting out, spindle bearings going bad, fuel related problems caused by ethanol mix gas and things that can be blamed on a general lack of maintenance.
i don't prefer the zero turn, but maybe it was the one that i tried personally.
as far as the rest, sturdy decks are what to look for, most drivetrains/tractors will far outlast their decks. electric or manual pto clutches vs "slip belt" technology. ease of removing the deck, if you need to on a regular basis. perhaps most important is finding local parts. ask the dealer what parts he has in stock, or how far you need to drive to get them.
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How much are you looking to spend?
I own a lawnservice business and I swear by Dixie Choppers. It would be overkill for you to buy a new one at $8-10K, but you could buy a used one with a 60" deck in great condition for $3500-$4000.
They are built like tanks. 90% of repairs can be done in a matter of minutes with a screwdriver and basic socket set. They're designed that way to minimize down time for businesses.
Even if a used one seems a bit steep, you said you want to mow your acre in an hour. How about 20 minutes? What's the extra 40 minutes per week for the rest of your life worth to you? It will also be the last mower you'll ever buy.
Skip the plastic and stamped steel junk. Get a Dixie. =)
http://www.dixiechopper.com/
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I run zero turns at work (mainly exmark and grasshopper). They aren't the be all/end all, but they are pretty good and they are becoming the dominant configuration, and are very manueverable. If I was buying a mower today, I'd definetley get a zero turn.
If what Declaration Day says about Dixie Choppers is true, and I believe him, then go with one.
The mowers you encounter at Home Depot, Lowes, etc are cheap, cheap, cheap consumer grade stuff that doesn't last. Don't buy one. You got to go to a JD dealership, for a real "JD mower", for example.
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A Dixie Chopper might be a possibility in a few years, but right now that's just too much money.
We've budgeted up to $2000 out of our interest free loan to the fed.gov that's being returned to us. But less is more that can go into the emergency fund.
In an ideal world I'd love to find a rider that someone is practically giving away becuase "it don't work no more" that I could fix for $50 in parts and a couple hours figuring out how to replace the broken/worn out bits and catching up the neglect defered maintenance.
Failing that, a good running used mower for $500-1000 would fit the bill. If I have to go brand spanking new, then $2000 is the top end.
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the advice about avoiding the big box stores is right on. check in with some JD dealers, etc. I bought a 2 year old like new X320 for $1700 traded in at the dealer by a retired guy I know who just wanted to get a bigger one with a snow blade. He's the kind of guy that washes and waxes his truck twice a week and changed the oil on the JD the day before he traded it. It isn't zero turn but it will mow tight around small trees. I also have a Kubota compact tractor and the reputation of the whole product line is excellent including the smaller mowers.
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I'll second the comments from the others here. The John Deers and Cub cadets from the box stores are junk. if you go to the manufactures web site you most likely won't find those models even listed.
I'm personally having a similar dilemma. We have 2 acres of grass that need to be mowed and no mower. Its the GF's hose and she has had a lawn service since she bought it as the previous owner did not leave a mower behind.
So we pay 60 bucks every 2 weeks.
I grew up mowing almost two acres with several different lawn tractors, even the latest 15hp 42" JD took 2 hours.
If I'm going to buy a mover it will be a big 20+ HP zero turn. One of the guys I work with does 5 acres with a Bobcat in less then 2 hrs.
The problem is the price. Its not like me to pay anyone to do stuff like this. But the high price of the big mowers is the problem. The mower must do the lawn in less then 1 hour.
Thats a lot of cuts to make up the price of a 5-7k dollar machine. And most the used stuff beat bad.
And there is a lot of used stuff around here, just because there are so many wand services. I would not doubt that 75% of people have a lawn service around here. Especially since the average price of a house in my town is 850K. I just learned that tidbit the other day.
But its funny because we are know by most people in the town as the people with the big yard. (and small house)
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Skip the fancy lookers, the neato add-ons, and the gimcrackery gizmos.
Steel deck. Cast iron blocked engine with full-pressure lubrication and a serviceable external filter. And don't sneer at a 'reconditioned' unit.
Sears' Craftsman Pro series isn't a bad place to start and it looks like they're currently on sale....
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07128980000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6
Brad
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I bought a Murry with a 42" deck, 18.5 hp briggs twin. The motor burns some oil.
I paid $100 + a battery and an toggle switch to bypass the ignition. Worth every penny!
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Wow, I am learning many interesting things about big box mowers being the kiss of death. I had no idea.
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I live on 3-1/2 acres, the back half of which is sloped moderately and none of which is particularly smoothly graded. It was a cow pasture, and that's the way it remained after the house was built. I've been mowing it with a 16-HP 42" Wheel Horse for 20+ years. For a 1-acre lot, even that much machine would be massive overkill.
It is true that just about all the big box mowers, regardless of the brand name, are the same machine, and most will have a Briggs & Stratton engine. They're fine for a 1-acre parcel. The decks only rust out if you expose them to a lot of wet grass and then leave it clumped in there. Cutting grass when it's wet isn't good for the grass anyway, so just don't do that and the deck will last for a good, long time.
I wouldn't spend more than $500 or maybe $600 for what you need. And maybe even less if you catch a sale at Home Depot or Lowe's or Sears. 12-HP is plenty, 14 or 16 is better. You certainly don't need anything more than that.
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Wow, I am learning many interesting things about big box mowers being the kiss of death. I had no idea.
Mowers sold at big box stores are built to a price point. Go to a real dealer if you want something built to a quality standard.
I understand the dilemma between spending $2K for a big box store mower vs. $8K for a Dixie Chopper. What I don't get is how impossible it is to convince someone to buy a Redmax or Shindaiwa grass trimmer (weed whacker in layman's terms) for $350 that is 5 times as powerful and 100 times as durable as a $149 big box special.
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As to riding the thing I'd say stay on the top part where the blades aren't.
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Mowers sold at big box stores are built to a price point. Go to a real dealer if you want something built to a quality standard.
I understand the dilemma between spending $2K for a big box store mower vs. $8K for a Dixie Chopper. What I don't get is how impossible it is to convince someone to buy a Redmax or Shindaiwa grass trimmer (weed whacker in layman's terms) for $350 that is 5 times as powerful and 100 times as durable as a $149 big box special.
This is exactly why I have a stihl chain saw from the stihl dealer.
I'm not sure if they sell knock off stihl's, but some other brands are cheap copies.
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I sure don't mow all of my 160 acres and a good chunk of it gets done with a real tractor.
Six years ago my old '68 Wheel Horse 14 HP Kohler was getting a little tiered and it was a pretty rough ride.
I went to my farm supply store (I have to drive to Kansas City for a big box store) I got a MTD Cub Cadet. 27 HP Kolher 54" deck and a very comfy seat. IIRC it cost about $2500.00.
I loved it so much that when I ran into a MTD White brand for about $1500.00 a year later, I grab it for a back up or when someone else wants to help with the couple days of mowing. It has a 23 HP Kolher and 54" deck. It mows just as well as the other and all the frame looks the same. But the seat sucks and the controls are moved around to a weird angle.
In the years I've had them I've sharpened blades, changed oil and filters and plugged many a tire. But I haven't had one problem with deck rust or lack of power. The only thing I did do was bend one of tierods on the Cub, but you should have seen where I was mowing.
You might keep an eye on the local craigs list. I don't use it but I know a guy that has bought two nice riders cheap to use on his two acre plot.
jim
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What I don't get is how impossible it is to convince someone to buy a Redmax or Shindaiwa grass trimmer (weed whacker in layman's terms) for $350 that is 5 times as powerful and 100 times as durable as a $149 big box special.
But but but, you'll never get the savage pleasure of smashing and helicoptoring the $350 trimmer, but you certainly will with the $149 one.
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What I don't get is how impossible it is to convince someone to buy a Redmax or Shindaiwa grass trimmer (weed whacker in layman's terms) for $350 that is 5 times as powerful and 100 times as durable as a $149 big box special.
The same reason it's impossible to convince somebody to spend $50 more to buy a Bravo Company USA AR-15 instead of buying the piece of *expletive deleted*it Olympic at their local gunstore. Actually, wait, I've seen people pay hundreds of dollars more for a POS gun or optic instead of buying the quality item. All because they listen to the counter jockey.
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Craigslist or Detcord, your only two options for cutting that acre quick and cheap.
I agree that all the big box mowers are crap. I keep an old poulan branded one going to the point of rebuilding the motor last year. Way cheaper than buying a new one. I want a cool zero turn but I'd die. I only mow an acre but I mow slopes with the riding mower that most folks wouldn't take the push mower to.
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Craigslist or Detcord, your only two options for cutting that acre quick and cheap.
I agree that all the big box mowers are crap. I keep an old poulan branded one going to the point of rebuilding the motor last year. Way cheaper than buying a new one. I want a cool zero turn but I'd die. I only mow an acre but I mow slopes with the riding mower that most folks wouldn't take the push mower to.
You are forgtting napalm.
I also think I need to bring up my favorite lawn care tool- Glyphosate.
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I'd school you on a riding mower, but it would be too noisy for you to hear your lessons.
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Wow, I am learning many interesting things about big box mowers being the kiss of death. I had no idea.
Please, don't believe all the "Big Box items are TEH Junk!" blather. I owned a "Big Box Teh Junk" (translation: consumer grade) mower for 12 years, complete with stamped junk deck and sold it a year ago and never had to repair it (other than normal maintenance). It is still a great running mower. I replaced it with a "Big Box Teh Junk" John Deere complete with the junk stamped sheet metal deck and a Teh Junk Briggs Vanguard.
Sure the Welded deck Dixie Choppers and Exmarks will last longer but that all costs a lot more money. If you take proper care of it, a good consumer grade mower will last many years of satisfied service.
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my 18 year old craftsman is still ticking got it free from a guy "its broke!" new battery and it started right up
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Please replace the oil and filters on a semi-regular basis. Oil has been our bane. Now the damned thing leaks oil onto the exhaust.
Decks have been surprisingly sturdy for the mowers purchased in this new century. Last century's mowers sometimes went through multiple decks. A neat feature on some new ones - little plates on the bottom of the deck, designed to take the impact. Once they are bent, unbolt them, hammer them flat, and put them back on.
See about disabling the seat sensor ASAP. It is a PITA.
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Craigslist or Detcord, your only two options for cutting that acre quick and cheap.
I agree that all the big box mowers are crap. I keep an old poulan branded one going to the point of rebuilding the motor last year. Way cheaper than buying a new one. I want a cool zero turn but I'd die. I only mow an acre but I mow slopes with the riding mower that most folks wouldn't take the push mower to.
I have a zero turn and the CG is much lower than any riding tractor I've owned. I have a pretty steep ditch I mow and my ZTR is much more stable running the side of the hill than my Cub Cadet was. If the hill is too steep, it has a tendency slip rather than tip.
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I have a 21 hp Sears that has been trouble free for 4 years. I mow about 2 acres at my camp. The only thing I would do different is get a lawn tractor with a transmission instead of belt drives. I have a spare belt so the original will never break. Just change the oil regularly. I have had to change the battery after 3 years. The reason I went with a Sears is because you can get parts anywhere there is a Sears store and on line.....chris3
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http://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/grd/2309823242.html
an example
got one just like it had it 13 years
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http://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/grd/2309823242.html
an example
got one just like it had it 13 years
When the prices is $300 (bumpass)... do I want to know what "bumpass" means?
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its a neighborhood
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When the prices is $300 (bumpass)... do I want to know what "bumpass" means?
VA has some...odd names for places. Shortpump, for example. My family doesn't think it's amusing that I giggle at the names when I visit them.
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I wondered if "lawn tractors" maybe the new code phrase after the adult section was shut down on CL :)
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Update.
Picked up a mower today. Got a 2.5 year old Craftsman 54" with a 27hp Kohler. 59 hours on the meter. It came with a mulching kit (never used) and a box scraper/grader. Everything was clean and tight. Hopefully it'll last a long time.
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I wondered if "lawn tractors" maybe the new code phrase after the adult section was shut down on CL :)
I think they moved to the massage section.
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Hopefully it'll last a long time.
It should presuming you keep it serviced and clean, especially under/on the mowing deck. What kills most lawn equipment is neglect, not use.
Brad
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Update.
Picked up a mower today. Got a 2.5 year old Craftsman 54" with a 27hp Kohler. 59 hours on the meter. It came with a mulching kit (never used) and a box scraper/grader. Everything was clean and tight. Hopefully it'll last a long time.
I don't know anything about Craftsman mowers, but that's the same engine my Dixie Choppers have. Oldest one has 3500 hours, and will be getting its first repair this week. It has a leaking valve cover gasket, which will cost about $5 and a few minutes to replace.
Dixie doesn't power its mowers with junk.
Keep the oil clean, replace the spark plugs and air filter once a year, and that engine will last you a lifetime. Good choice!
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my lil 11 hp craftsman is 21 years old. stored under a tarp have ripped the tranny out once but i use it for pulling trailers around yard
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I have a Husqvarna YT150, twin blade, 42" swath, 15 hp Kohler one lunger, hydrostatic tranny. I bought it new in 1999, 386.6 hours on it now. Around $1400.00 back then. I replaced the belts a couple years ago, mainly because I got something jambed up in it and damaged the belt. The switch that engages the mower was giving me some problems last fall, but some duct tape squared that away. Has a pressurized oil system which is a plus. A lot of riders engines are gravity lubed and if you have slopes, can cause a problem. Some new plugs now and then, change the oil now and then, clean and change the air filter now and then. I just put tubes in the front tires as they were slowly losing air. New battery a couple years ago. Runs like a top.
I change the blades in the fall for blades that have more lift and attach my Cyclone Rake to drag around behind to get up my oak leaves. 22 oak trees. If you have leaves, the Cyclone Rake is the absolute best system for many reasons. 28 years of leaf picken' using every tool known to man, I know what I'm talkin' about. Cyclone Rake. God's gift to the overtreed homeowner.
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Had an issue while running it tonight. With a freshly filled tank of gas the engine would surge and then die. Throttle is all the way up and it would die as soon as I tried to engage the blades. No clogging that I can tell. It would protest even just driving with the blades off. What's going on? Fuel filter?
ETA: SWMBO ran the tank dry. But it ran for a good 20 minutes before surging and dieing.
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There should be a vent in the cap to let air in and fuel out. If it is plugged or covered it won't let much fuel out.
Missed the ran it dry. May have had some crude in the tank that is plugging filter or has gotten to the needle and seat.
jim
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I only mow an acre but I mow slopes with the riding mower that most folks wouldn't take the push mower to.
Did that as a kid with the family lawn tractor. "See, this stretch I only mow downhill," and hold on for dear life.
my 18 year old craftsman is still ticking got it free from a guy "its broke!" new battery and it started right up
I know that guy and have bought other stuff from him. Wish more guys like him were around when I needed pricey mechanical stuff.
my lil 11 hp craftsman is 21 years old. stored under a tarp have ripped the tranny out once but i use it for pulling trailers around yard
Dang, I thought I was sometimes hard on equipment. I am but an amateur in that league by comparison.
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my 400 buck 5 k y2k generator has been under a piece of plywood under a tarp. religious about stabil in gas as well as keeping tank full and running the carb dry each time i use it. i put it in my storage trailer last night just on a lark i tried to start it. 3 shots of thrust did the trick. and it was 2009 last time it was started.